ESPN - Jose Canseco Said He Knows A HOFer That Used. Who do you think it is?

[3arod13]

Re: ESPN - Jose Canseco Said He Knows A HOFer That Used. Who do you think it is?

Its Reggie Jackson he's talking about 100 percent!

Second of all, Steroids isnt the only way to "cheat". Do you think guys like Wade Boggs, and Cal Ripken never took amphetimines? How do you explain playing for 20 odd years and never had taken something that is banned by baseball today. Steroids is one of MANY drugs players have been taking for a lot of years. I get tired of everyone thinking its just steroids. Guys have been taking testosterone, HGH, greenies, aderal, dexidren, ridlin, and every other drug they could get their hands on before testing was introduced. I can assume a lot more than one hall of fame player has taken one of the drugs i mentioned let alone snorted a line of coke.

What bothers me more than anything is, players from this era will take the blame and be held accountable for this. Especially those who are on the 2003 list. But we know there are many more, and it has gone on well before this era. And you have those players sitting back, keeping their mouths shut, while they watch players from this era take all the blame.

I don't care much for Canseco, but I wish more players would speak out. Let's get it all out so we can move on. It's not just this era. It's been going on in baseball prior to this era!

[hiramman]

Re: ESPN - Jose Canseco Said He Knows A HOFer That Used. Who do you think it is?

Sounds like Canseco's leading up to another BOOK.

[MJB14]

Re: ESPN - Jose Canseco Said He Knows A HOFer That Used. Who do you think it is?

Let's put it this way. If Canseco did lie about any of the players he named for using steroids then why haven't any of them filed legal actions against him for defamation of character. If you were one of those players and you were clean wouldn't you do something or take some sort of action against him for tarnishing your image? That's how I see it.

[sylbry]

Re: ESPN - Jose Canseco Said He Knows A HOFer That Used. Who do you think it is?

I agree with you. Did he protected Clemens in his book. I believe he's even said Clemens never even cheated on his wife and then the whole country singer fiasco came about.

I can't wait for his next fight. He'll probably get his arse whooped by another nobody.

Aaron

If you read Canseco's second book he tries to explain himself on Clemens. He said he thought Clemens was a user but had no way to prove it. He also blames the media for ignoring/covering up his Clemens accusations.

It has been awhile since I read it and can't remember the specifics.

Not sure what to think on Henderson. He certainly fits the profile in this picture but at the same time Rickey's body never broke down and he was also big before he ever met Canseco (see his 1985 card). I bet Rickey could still play today.

[cjclong]

Re: ESPN - Jose Canseco Said He Knows A HOFer That Used. Who do you think it is?

has he been wrong yet?

Has Conseco been wrong yet? I don't know, he said he didn't think Clemens used. Should we believe him on one and not another. I really don't see the point in this trying to guess who and who didn't. All it does is malign players who haven't used. If Canseco "knows" an HOF player that used why doesn't he just name him and not taint everyone else. Maybe he needs to sell another book.

[sylbry]

Re: ESPN - Jose Canseco Said He Knows A HOFer That Used. Who do you think it is?

he was teammates with boggs at the end of his career. none of the others really fit. unless barney dreyfuss was juicing back in the day

Boggs was on something else.

http://stevemasonsmog.typepad.com/710_espns_smog_steve_maso/2007/09/wade-boggs-can-.html

[rj_lucas]

Re: ESPN - Jose Canseco Said He Knows A HOFer That Used. Who do you think it is?

I think the more interesting question is what happens when the name does come out (which it will)? Assuming there's proof, and not simply allegations, will the person be removed from the Hall of Fame?

Not likely.

Which begs the question, how can the baseball writers justify excluding other players whose only shortfall is alleged PED use?

Rick
rickjlucas@gmail.com

[spartakid]

Re: ESPN - Jose Canseco Said He Knows A HOFer That Used. Who do you think it is?

Yes - Didn't Canseco repeatedly say that Clemens was clean? Wasn't he willing to sign an affidavit saying that Clemens never tried steroids?

Or am I misremembering?

Sorry I should have phrased that differently, I meant to say that he's never implicated someone that has not used steroids, thus when he says someone has, it's always been good info.

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: ESPN - Jose Canseco Said He Knows A HOFer That Used. Who do you think it is?

You all know I'm a huge Canseco fan. With that said all this "I know but I'm not telling" stuff is getting old. I liked him better when he was just ratting people out and they were all mad. Canseco lot credibility with me when it became clear that he was outing certain guys and covering up for other guys. I think if you are going to start telling on people you should tell on them all. If not then keep your trap shut about it.

Oh yeah, for the record it better not be Rickey.

Jason,

I just have to know my friend.......WHAT possible facit of his career makes you a Jose Canseco fan?

The 90's "twitching" from overdosing on PED's? The Madonna history? The lack of care about the dead and suffering during the "Quake Series in '89" when all Jose cared about was getting back to playing? His nickname "The chemist"? His promotional infiltration to many players of drugs that helped ruin the record books of the game? His complete and thorough backlash on the game after he got everything deserved by self-imposed bad will to the game?

I'm sorry, but I can't think of a more worthless individual in the history of baseball to have ever surfaced.......than Jose Canseco.

Please........enlighten me?

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: ESPN - Jose Canseco Said He Knows A HOFer That Used. Who do you think it is?

THANK YOU!!!!! I've felt the exact same. You have people on here talking about the "purity" of the game blah blah blah blah. It was not uncommon to have a bowl full of greenies in the clubhouse in the 50's-70's. Guys would take handfulls of that stuff. Its not steroids, yes, I know but when you're hurt and not feeling your best, just pop a few greenies and you're flying high, literally...or snort a line. Look at the coke heads in the game! I'm sure we all know who they are. I could care less whether some's juicing, or snorting coke or popping greenies like they're breathe mints. I love the game period. It pisses me off when I hear "cheater" and "purity of the game" when greenies isn't natural just like steriods aren't so get off your high horse, all those people who are holier than thou. Enjoy the game for its entertainment purposes. Look at the WWE. I enjoy the entertainment value. Its a guys soap opera. What about all of you people who speed on the free way, or cheat on a test....ooooooooo, you're a cheater, what about the purity of academics!! See how ridiculous that is?

Now for all you who like to argue, I am not saying everyone should do roids and pop greenies, just don't say the roid users are bad and let the greenie poppers get off like they are saints.

Aaron

Aaron,

I have to say, I'm disappointed in your views stated here.

I agree that taking "Greenies", or doing a line of coke, or taking an anphetamine is cheating......but it dosn't morphisize one's body into a super-human cartoon character able to leap small buildings in a single bound. Steroids do.

There has been NO ONE DESTRUCTIVE ASPECT ever before in the game like the abuse of steroids in the last two+ decades. It has been proven OVER and OVER with the numbers that they do, SUBSTANTIALLY effect (skew) a players numbers to the upside.....DRAMATICALLY. I could go on and on and on with examples, but that's beating a dead horse. Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, Palmeiro, Manny, Ortiz, A-Rod, Giambi......I mean c'MON. Thes guys HULKED UP into monsters and broke LIFE LONG RECORDS of the game OVER and OVER again. And you want to talk about being upset over our lack of understanding about a little energy booster like a greenie?

I agree with you that the game has not and was not completely PURE.......but you are comparing apples to 1,225 lb. pumpkins grown in Half Moon Bay, California, with genetically formulated growth additives to produce effects that rendure you in utter amazement.

Get some perspective, please!

Regards,

Steve

[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: ESPN - Jose Canseco Said He Knows A HOFer That Used. Who do you think it is?

LEAVE RICKEY ALONE!

This thread is exactly why all of the high rollers and big-wigs in the industry refuse to participate in this forum.

washwoman says what.

[suicide_squeeze]

Re: ESPN - Jose Canseco Said He Knows A HOFer That Used. Who do you think it is?

LEAVE RICKEY ALONE!

This thread is exactly why all of the high rollers and big-wigs in the industry refuse to participate in this forum.

washwoman says what.

BTPH.....

What exactly are you referring to? The big wigs......being whom, exactly? And why would someone expressing their opinions on a player keep anyone from participating here?

And the 'washwoman says what' comment???.......that one whizzed right by me, care to explain that?

[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: ESPN - Jose Canseco Said He Knows A HOFer That Used. Who do you think it is?

BTPH.....

What exactly are you referring to? The big wigs......being whom, exactly? And why would someone expressing their opinions on a player keep anyone from participating here?

And the 'washwoman says what' comment???.......that one whizzed right by me, care to explain that?

Yes, I'll explain.

The big-wigs and high rollers mention was a reference to a member (who no longer posts) and his feelings that many folks don't add to this forum for various different reasons.

On the original forum (often referred to as GUF Classic) some shills from an auction house said: "this forum is like a bunch of gossiping wash women" or "old ladies at a sewing circle".
the "says what" reference is based on the "sphincter says what?" line from "Wayne's World".

The "Leave Rickey Alone" line is a take on the "Leave Britney Alone" youtube sensation.

The "off-topic threads suck" line has not been written yet. But here goes:

"OFF TOPIC THREADS SUCK"

[rj_lucas]

Re: ESPN - Jose Canseco Said He Knows A HOFer That Used. Who do you think it is?

Aaron,

I have to say, I'm disappointed in your views stated here.

I agree that taking "Greenies", or doing a line of coke, or taking an anphetamine is cheating......but it dosn't morphisize one's body into a super-human cartoon character able to leap small buildings in a single bound. Steroids do.

There has been NO ONE DESTRUCTIVE ASPECT ever before in the game like the abuse of steroids in the last two+ decades. It has been proven OVER and OVER with the numbers that they do, SUBSTANTIALLY effect (skew) a players numbers to the upside.....DRAMATICALLY. I could go on and on and on with examples, but that's beating a dead horse. Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, Palmeiro, Manny, Ortiz, A-Rod, Giambi......I mean c'MON. Thes guys HULKED UP into monsters and broke LIFE LONG RECORDS of the game OVER and OVER again. And you want to talk about being upset over our lack of understanding about a little energy booster like a greenie?

I agree with you that the game has not and was not completely PURE.......but you are comparing apples to 1,225 lb. pumpkins grown in Half Moon Bay, California, with genetically formulated growth additives to produce effects that rendure you in utter amazement.

Get some perspective, please!

Regards,

Steve

Steve, I enjoy your posts. They're well thought out and expressed in an entertaining way.

I don't fully agree with this post though. The game has always had it's share of hulking power hitters e.g. Fox, Ott, Killebrew, etc. etc.

Yes, there are more big men in the game today, thanks largely to better nutrition and advancements in the science of weight training, which 40 years ago consisted of little more than grabbing a dumbell and doing some bicep curls.

I have never seen or heard of any clinical research that connects PEDs use to an improvement in eye/hand coordination. Do they contribute to muscle mass? Yes. So perhaps the home run travels 440 feet instead of 420 feet -- either way it's in the stands.

Someday, probably many years from now, a serious baseball scholar will take a look at every home run Mark McGwire hit in his career and adjust the distances due to (theoretical) PEDs use.

I don't think Mark is going to lose many home runs.

Rick
rickjlucas@gmail.com

[rj_lucas]

Re: ESPN - Jose Canseco Said He Knows A HOFer That Used. Who do you think it is?

Steve, I enjoy your posts. They're well thought out and expressed in an entertaining way.

I don't fully agree with this post though. The game has always had it's share of hulking power hitters e.g. Fox, Ott, Killebrew, etc. etc.

Yes, there are more big men in the game today, thanks largely to better nutrition and advancements in the science of weight training, which 40 years ago consisted of little more than grabbing a dumbell and doing some bicep curls.

I have never seen or heard of any clinical research that connects PEDs use to an improvement in eye/hand coordination. Do they contribute to muscle mass? Yes. So perhaps the home run travels 440 feet instead of 420 feet -- either way it's in the stands.

Someday, probably many years from now, a serious baseball scholar will take a look at every home run Mark McGwire hit in his career and adjust the distances due to (theoretical) PEDs use.

I don't think Mark is going to lose many home runs.

Rick
rickjlucas@gmail.com

Sorry, Jimmy Foxx is of course spelled with two XXs -- hence the nickname Double X.

Didn't want anybody to think I was talking about Nellie Fox, who was not 'quite' the power hitter that Jimmy Foxx was

Rick
rickjlucas@gmail.com