What happened to Mitchell & Ness?

[genius]

I bought one of the first M&N Steelers throwbacks back in the late 1990s, a Bradshaw Super Bowl X jersey made of fine durene that was nearly identical to the early 80s Steelers jerseys, if not absolutely identical, with a perfect nameplate font. Recently, I decided to buy a white version for $100 just for the heck of it and was shocked at the difference in quality. Instead of fine durene from Berlin, Wisconsin, it's heavy 100% polyester from Korea though it retailed for over $300. Font seems a little bit off, a couple millimeters too wide to my trained Steeler eye. I don't follow M&N and these are the only two replica throwbacks I have ever purchased (Bradshaw gamers being a bit out of my reach!) but I was just wondering what happened. Did they get "cheap" in order to cash in on the throwback craze or did they run out of raw material? I don't think it's a knockoff, looks exactly like the white Steeler jerseys on their website and the site says that they are polyester. I'm sure there are not many people on this forum interested in M&N and I'm probably about 5 years too late in even commenting but I'm curious if anyone has any explanation. Seems like when they started they were offering some cool stuff. Thanks!

[OaklandAsFan]

Re: What happened to Mitchell & Ness?

I bought one of the first M&N Steelers throwbacks back in the late 1990s, a Bradshaw Super Bowl X jersey made of fine durene that was nearly identical to the early 80s Steelers jerseys, if not absolutely identical, with a perfect nameplate font. Recently, I decided to buy a white version for $100 just for the heck of it and was shocked at the difference in quality. Instead of fine durene from Berlin, Wisconsin, it's heavy 100% polyester from Korea though it retailed for over $300. Font seems a little bit off, a couple millimeters too wide to my trained Steeler eye. I don't follow M&N and these are the only two replica throwbacks I have ever purchased (Bradshaw gamers being a bit out of my reach!) but I was just wondering what happened. Did they get "cheap" in order to cash in on the throwback craze or did they run out of raw material? I don't think it's a knockoff, looks exactly like the white Steeler jerseys on their website and the site says that they are polyester. I'm sure there are not many people on this forum interested in M&N and I'm probably about 5 years too late in even commenting but I'm curious if anyone has any explanation. Seems like when they started they were offering some cool stuff. Thanks!

They actually talk about M&N in my business book for the business class I am taking. The company merged with someone who has mainly marketed throwback jerseys to the black community and mostly Basketball. I am not being racist or anything like that I am jsut saying what the book said that their primary marketing focus is too.

[bigjimsguitars]

Re: What happened to Mitchell & Ness?

Genius:

Where did you buy it? I ask only because I recently bought a Koufax that on ebay that was totally bogus and M&N were very helpful eventhough I hadn't bought it from them or a authorized dealer.

Most of what is being sold on ebay as real Mitchell & Ness is Korean or Chinese knock offs and that is what M&N informed me.

They actually reported my incident to MLB who oversee's the licensing and such and the item was removed from ebay (after it ended, alas). Since I paid via Paypal, I was able to file a dispute and it resolved in my favor....

[genius]

Re: What happened to Mitchell & Ness?

I bought it on ebay from a guy who advertised as being a M&N dealer from PA. It's no longer on the website but there's another jersey that is exactly what I bought only a larger size http://cgi.ebay.com/MITCHELL-NESS-PI...QQcmdZViewItem

You can see that the nameplate is ever-so-slightly off and the material is definitely not the classic durene that they originally came out with.

I also saw a Falcons William Andrews M&N jersey recently that was a perfect match to the old-school Russell Athletic mesh. I don't think these are around any more either. I'm just wondering why the change from the authentic materials to the polyester, whether it was a move to get cheap or dictated by the lack of raw materials available for the volume?

[TNTtoys]

Re: What happened to Mitchell & Ness?

I bought it on ebay from a guy who advertised as being a M&N dealer from PA. It's no longer on the website but there's another jersey that is exactly what I bought only a larger size http://cgi.ebay.com/MITCHELL-NESS-PI...QQcmdZViewItem

You can see that the nameplate is ever-so-slightly off and the material is definitely not the classic durene that they originally came out with.

I also saw a Falcons William Andrews M&N jersey recently that was a perfect match to the old-school Russell Athletic mesh. I don't think these are around any more either. I'm just wondering why the change from the authentic materials to the polyester, whether it was a move to get cheap or dictated by the lack of raw materials available for the volume?

I have a lot of experience with Mitchell and Ness jerseys... I own about 20 of them, and can guarantee that every single one of them is the real thing. Course I did learn my lesson the hard way, but that's not the purpose of my post...

Your reference is to ebay seller "lakeshow2" or "Goin Deep Sports" from California. Basically, Mitchell and Ness' rule of thumb is that "if the deal is too good to be true, it probably is." The one exception to this rule is this guy. I spoke to M&N and they have confirmed that Goin Deep Sports is an authorized WHOLESALER of their jerseys (and went on to mention that there are not many of these types of sellers in existence). They get in bulk a lot of the items that M&N can't move (much larger sizes, irregulars, etc.). They then blow them out on ebay at wholesale prices (you will often find $250.00 jerseys for under $100.00).

My advice to you...

If you are buying from lakeshow2/Goin Deep Sports -- you can rest assured you are getting the real thing.

If you are buying from ANYONE ELSE OTHER THAN M&N THEMSELVES -- Contact M&N before you make a purchase and confirm whether or not you are buying from an authorized M&N dealer. If they do not vouch for them, you are likely buying a fraudulent item.

[TNTtoys]

Re: What happened to Mitchell & Ness?

Further to this story...

Some more helpful info with buying Mitchell & Ness...


Mitchell and Ness also informed me that they employ personnel whose job it is to police ebay and report any M&N knock-off items that appear to be fraudulent. Many of the sellers of these "knock-offs" are already onto this and have come up with other tactics to sell their items, such as:

a. Running their auctions for 1 day, hoping they can start and finish before Mitchell and Ness conducts a sweep

b. Placing a buy it now on their item (for much less than a real version of the item is worth) in hopes that it will only stay on ebay for a few hours)

c. Taking photos of every part of the jersey except for the tags

d. Not indicating "Mitchell and Ness" or "M&N" in the listing, so that it can pass through any keyword searches performed by Mitchell and Ness staff

[TNTtoys]

Re: What happened to Mitchell & Ness?

If you are buying from ANYONE ELSE OTHER THAN M&N THEMSELVES -- Contact M&N before you make a purchase and confirm whether or not you are buying from an authorized M&N dealer. If they do not vouch for them, you are likely buying a fraudulent item.

Sorry, I made this statement a bit too broad unintentionally. It is meant to reflect EBAY SELLERS. There are also quite a few STORES that have contracts to sell Mitchell and Ness items at retail prices. Distant Replays in Atlanta GA is one of them, and a very reputable one. There are quite a few others... but again, if you are unsure what you are buying, contact Mitchell and Ness themselves to confirm.

[genius]

Re: What happened to Mitchell & Ness?

I think some of the posts are missing what my original question was. I know there are a lot of fakes out there but even the authentic M&N jerseys are now polyester, it says so on their website. I'm curious to find out why they don't make the great durenes anymore or the soft old-school mesh? It seems to me when M&N first started, it wasn't just about the design, the materials were authentic as well. I'm wondering if they went cheap to cash in on the huge volume, or if the old raw materials just aren't available any longer.

[TNTtoys]

Re: What happened to Mitchell & Ness?

I think some of the posts are missing what my original question was. I know there are a lot of fakes out there but even the authentic M&N jerseys are now polyester, it says so on their website. I'm curious to find out why they don't make the great durenes anymore or the soft old-school mesh? It seems to me when M&N first started, it wasn't just about the design, the materials were authentic as well. I'm wondering if they went cheap to cash in on the huge volume, or if the old raw materials just aren't available any longer.

I think what we were trying to assess first and foremost was whether or not you were comparing the real thing made of the real materials to a fake knock-off made of cheaper material.

From my own experience, I have found the authentic M&Ns to be hit or mioss with the quality of the material. For example, I bought a 1977 Rod Carew about 2 years ago in the same order as a Jim Edmonds Cardinals 1982 TBTC. The Carew weighed about twice as much as the Edmonds, which was clearly a much thinner jersey. The Carew was very much like the heavy duty polyester that the players wore on field in the 70s. Not sure why the vast difference in quality. Haven't posed the question... my main concern was that I was buying a real, officially licensed product.

[otismalibu]

Re: What happened to Mitchell & Ness?

I've read on other boards about comparisons between the old made in USA Steelers M&N and the newer ones out there that were made overseas. Not sure why they changed materials.

People have also complained about the boxy cut on newer M&N offerings.

They made some very nice high end replicas quite a few years back. The quality and attention to historical accuracy seems to have dropped off.

I think Reebok just bought them, so we'll see what happens.

I just picked up a black M&N Bradshaw that had some staining on the numbers. Didn't matter, because I bought it with the intention of turning it into a Swann jersey for a buddy of mine. I assume it was one of the older ones, because the material was great.

[genius]

Re: What happened to Mitchell & Ness?

My original Steelers M&N was made in Berlin Wisconsin by I presume the same company that made the actual jerseys. The new one was made in Korea and I think that all of them are now made overseas. The original is great and I think in time it could well be collectible. The Steelers sold some of their own throwbacks on Steelers.com a couple of years back and I bought one of them as well, it was made in Berlin WI and the material was absolutely identical to the M&N jersey I have.

[both-teams-played-hard]

Re: What happened to Mitchell & Ness?

I think some of the posts are missing what my original question was. I know there are a lot of fakes out there but even the authentic M&N jerseys are now polyester, it says so on their website. I'm curious to find out why they don't make the great durenes anymore or the soft old-school mesh? It seems to me when M&N first started, it wasn't just about the design, the materials were authentic as well. I'm wondering if they went cheap to cash in on the huge volume, or if the old raw materials just aren't available any longer.

Durene is mercerized cotton. Chemically treated cotton, that retains fabric dye better. It is mercerized to prevent shrinkage and adds the shiney luster. So, no cotton is readily available. The "mercerizing" process may not be cost effective. Some newer "durenes" (late 80s Sand Knit) is usually a 50-50 blend of nylon and durene cotton. The original "durenes" of the 30s-40s-50s-60s seem to vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. Some are blends (vicose, rayon or nylon) but most are 100% treated cotton. I have seen many M&Ns that don't add to the real thing! 78 Bullets, 60s Bears, etc. Many jerseys are fabrically challenged to the real. But many are nice. Is cotton grown in China?

[suave1477]

Re: What happened to Mitchell & Ness?

My original Steelers M&N was made in Berlin Wisconsin by I presume the same company that made the actual jerseys. The new one was made in Korea and I think that all of them are now made overseas. The original is great and I think in time it could well be collectible. The Steelers sold some of their own throwbacks on Steelers.com a couple of years back and I bought one of them as well, it was made in Berlin WI and the material was absolutely identical to the M&N jersey I have.

Genius have you contacted Mitchell & Ness to see what they have to say?

[genius]

Re: What happened to Mitchell & Ness?

No, I have no complaints with their company and don't collect M&N jerseys, I just thought I'd ask the forum because I'm curious. Nothing more to it than that. I love the classic jersey materials and think it's really cool the way they first replicated the old Steelers jerseys. It's a shame they are now being sourced overseas with polyester material. At first glance it seems like a money-grab (producing these in bulk at the expense of quality) but I thought perhaps it's because they ran out of the good stuff.

I read somewhere that when M&N first started producing baseball flannels, they actually had found rolls of the original flannel material that had long been stored away, having not been needed at the time. How cool would that be, an authentic replica Yankees or Dodgers jersey made from the same batch of flannel that the actual gamers were produced from 50 years ago. Perhaps this was the case with the Berlin WI durene, unused material from the actual time period that is limited in quantity.

If I knew for sure that my M&N Bradshaw was produced from the same leftover early 80s material as Bradshaw's actual jersey, I might display it more prominently!

[flaco1801]

Re: What happened to Mitchell & Ness?

the mitchell and ness products you bought were most likely conterfeit. m and n go back a long ways. they used to make philadelphia a's jerseys and others as well. great outfit and peter is a gentleman. wish all the dealers were this classy Jeff