AMI 1993 Emmitt Smith Game Worn Jersey

[kingjammy24]

Re: AMI 1993 Emmitt Smith Game Worn Jersey

There are sooooo many issues with this jersey that I am absolutely baffled that any authenticator gave it a thumbs up...I'm as equally baffled that this jersey has not been pulled

Maybe Lou is the consignor?

pete

are you aware that AMI sold this very smith jersey on 11/29/2007? sold for $4484:

http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=39443

maybe it's not so baffling why they can't/won't pull it and won't answer any questions. my theory is they sold it and it's likely that whoever bought it back then is probably the current consigner. how can AMI tell the current consigner it's no good after they already sold it to them?! can't unring a bell right? hypothetically, if AMI pipes up now and pulls the shirt then they're admitting to the consigner that they sold them a bad shirt in '07. oh dear. best to keep quiet and ignore the voices. the consigner can't consign it elsewhere because another auction house would likely tell them it's bad. the only place they can unload it is AMI and AMI is forced to take it. what a pickle.

rudy.

[aeneas01]

Re: AMI 1993 Emmitt Smith Game Worn Jersey

maybe it's not so baffling why they can't/won't pull it and won't answer any questions. my theory is they sold it and it's likely that whoever bought it back then is probably the current consigner. how can AMI tell the current consigner it's no good after they already sold it to them?! can't unring a bell right? hypothetically, if AMI pipes up now and pulls the shirt then they're admitting to the consigner that they sold them a bad shirt in '07. oh dear. best to keep quiet and ignore the voices. the consigner can't consign it elsewhere because another auction house would likely tell them it's bad. the only place they can unload it is AMI and AMI is forced to take it. what a pickle.

i think this sort of thing may happen more often than we would like to believe - as i mentioned to you not too long ago, i was recently asked by a well known auction house to take a quick look at some helmets it wants to list in its upcoming auction. i immediately recognized one of the lids (which happened to be the best in the bunch - a beautiful and rare vintage lid) which belonged to an obscure player and that was in circulation years ago - but this time around it has been autographed by a pro bowler and the consignor wants to list it as his gamer.

to complicate matters, apparently it was the auction house that sold it to the buyer several years ago and led the buyer to believe it belonged to the pro bowler. the buyer, after bidding on it and winning it based on this info, actually tracked down the pro bowler and got him to sign it. now, years later, the buyer wants to relist it with the auction house as the pro bowler's lid with the pro bowler's sig. i told the auction house that i recognized the helmet from many years ago and that i know it belonged to an obscure player. further, i told the auction house that i have many photos of the lid, inside and out, so i will be able to tell if the interior has been altered in an attempt to reflect the pro bowler's use.

now the auction house has a decision to make. tell the buyer that he purchased it based on bad info from the auction house and therefore the auction house can't relist it as the pro bowler's gamer, because it's not. or say nothing to the buyer, relist it as the pro bowler's gamer as per the consignor's request, and hope that i keep my mouth shut and my photos under wraps when i see the listing. of course the auction house could always claim that helmets were often recycled during that era and that the helmet was used by both players. but given the unique circumstances surrounding this particular helmet it would be a tough sell - even more so if the interior of the helmet has been altered to reflect the pro bower's use. btw the auction house i'm speaking of is not ami.

but speaking of ami, their authenticators and their willingness to offer suspect items, how about this episode: i came across a jack "hacksaw" reynolds rams "gamer" that ami listed and sold in march of 2005 for $1,700+ despite the fact that the helmet had a host of issues which i itemized in post at the forum.

here's an excerpt from ami's 03/05 listing:
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/A...ction_ID=15491

Customized "RAMS" front bumper and midnight navy, green dot full cage. Boasts intact and original warning sticker, and Dyno-tape interior identifier stating “64 REYNOLDS”

after i called this helmet out at the forum and pointed to its many problems, it hit the ami's auction block again in april of 2008 but this time the lot description had been changed in an effort to explain away the problems i cited - it sold for $950+ this time around.

here's an excerpt from ami's 04/08 listing:

http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=42776

The customized "RAMS" front bumper and midnight navy, green dot full cage, clips and warning sticker are trimmings added to the helmet for camp use after Reynolds' departure. (In fact, Reynolds wore a gray full cage (not double reinforced) with traditional gray clips and without this style's warning and bumper stickers during his tenure.) Still, a wonderful example of 70s headgear worn by the man they called "Hacksaw.

the first time around it was an authentic reynolds gamer with original appointments. after i mentioned that the decals and facemask (among other things) were not consistent with what the rams sported when reynolds was in horns, the lot description changed to the facemask and decals being added after reynolds had left the rams, for "camp use" the following year. talk about fairy tales. assuming for a moment that this new version of the helmet's provenance was even a possibility (that it was his helmet that had been stripped down after his final year and re-decaled for subsequent use the following year), then why wasn't the "reynolds" dymo (not "dyno" as the lot description states) interior identifier decal also stripped off?

fwiw this lid was listed yet again by ami in october of 2008 - this time around it only fetched $500+. couldit be that the buyers and consignors were one and the same and therefore ami felt they were forced to relist this bunk helmet (with a rewrite) as a reynold's gamer given that's what ami sold it as?

.....

[lund6771]

Re: AMI 1993 Emmitt Smith Game Worn Jersey

pete

are you aware that AMI sold this very smith jersey on 11/29/2007? sold for $4484:

http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=39443

maybe it's not so baffling why they can't/won't pull it and won't answer any questions. my theory is they sold it and it's likely that whoever bought it back then is probably the current consigner. how can AMI tell the current consigner it's no good after they already sold it to them?! can't unring a bell right? hypothetically, if AMI pipes up now and pulls the shirt then they're admitting to the consigner that they sold them a bad shirt in '07. oh dear. best to keep quiet and ignore the voices. the consigner can't consign it elsewhere because another auction house would likely tell them it's bad. the only place they can unload it is AMI and AMI is forced to take it. what a pickle.

rudy.

Hi Rudy...

I do remember this jersey being offered by AMI before....the last time they listed it, I posted on this forum that there was never any documentation of Emmitt wearing a hand warmer pouch from this season

Magically, it is now listed as being made in "preparation" of a cold weather game in SF where they would have worn a white jersey

I don't think that it's even fair to say that the 100% Authentic Team dropped the ball on this one....I think it's fair to say that they made ZERO attempt to provide a solid authentication...It's not like this jersey is a 100% match to a team issue....there are far to many things WRONG than RIGHT about it

[nyjetsfan14]

Re: AMI 1993 Emmitt Smith Game Worn Jersey

Hi Rudy...

I do remember this jersey being offered by AMI before....the last time they listed it, I posted on this forum that there was never any documentation of Emmitt wearing a hand warmer pouch from this season

Magically, it is now listed as being made in "preparation" of a cold weather game in SF where they would have worn a white jersey

I don't think that it's even fair to say that the 100% Authentic Team dropped the ball on this one....I think it's fair to say that they made ZERO attempt to provide a solid authentication...It's not like this jersey is a 100% match to a team issue....there are far to many things WRONG than RIGHT about it

I'll preface this by stating I know little to nothing specifically about Dallas Cowboys equipment traits. The jersey is obviously listed as a 1993 item but has anyone tried searching for pics of Smith in subsequent seasons in which he might be seen sporting sewn handwarmers (the 1994 NFL 75th anniversary season could be ruled out)? There have been many a GUU thread regarding recycled jerseys and it might behoove a potential buyer, authenticator, or other interested party, to see if this is even a remote possibility with this particular piece. Just a thought, happy collecting.

Matthew

[kingjammy24]

Re: AMI 1993 Emmitt Smith Game Worn Jersey

I'll preface this by stating I know little to nothing specifically about Dallas Cowboys equipment traits. The jersey is obviously listed as a 1993 item but has anyone tried searching for pics of Smith in subsequent seasons in which he might be seen sporting sewn handwarmers (the 1994 NFL 75th anniversary season could be ruled out)? There have been many a GUU thread regarding recycled jerseys and it might behoove a potential buyer, authenticator, or other interested party, to see if this is even a remote possibility with this particular piece. Just a thought, happy collecting.

Matthew

according to pete, "The Cowboys only wore Apex in 93 and 94". as well, the pics i posted show smith playing cold-weather games in 1995 and 2000. the pic showing emmitt playing at veteran's stadium in december makes it look absolutely frigid. he was cold enough to wear long sleeves and don a face mask, but still not cold enough to have handwarmers sewn in. common sense will tell you that december in philadelphia is immensely worse than san francisco in january, which is where lou thinks emmitt would've needed them. if it was cowboys practice to sew pockets onto emmitt's jerseys in preparation for cold-weather games, as lou claims, then wouldn't at least a single photo exist? why didn't they sew them on for that cold philly game in '95?

smith was a very popular superstar who played for 14 seasons, on one of the most popular teams in america, in a modern era and as such was photographed extensively. lampson/AMI states that "there is no photo documentation of his wearing pockets during the season..". given how much he was photographed, what is the likelihood of emmitt smith wearing pockets and never once being photographed with them? lou's the man with "..an astonishing 8,000 plus uniform related photos in his reference library". lou needed to make up a story and he did. you wonder why certain delicious auction houses continue to hire lou despite his umpteen years worth of egregious errors? because noone can cook up a story like lou and that's what his employers often need.

rudy.

[lund6771]

Re: AMI 1993 Emmitt Smith Game Worn Jersey

I'll preface this by stating I know little to nothing specifically about Dallas Cowboys equipment traits. The jersey is obviously listed as a 1993 item but has anyone tried searching for pics of Smith in subsequent seasons in which he might be seen sporting sewn handwarmers (the 1994 NFL 75th anniversary season could be ruled out)? There have been many a GUU thread regarding recycled jerseys and it might behoove a potential buyer, authenticator, or other interested party, to see if this is even a remote possibility with this particular piece. Just a thought, happy collecting.

Matthew

This is very possible for a lot of teams...Roger has a Barry Sanders that was worn/recycled over a couple of seasons...but no way in this situation


If this was a recycled jersey worn in a different season, surely the Apex logos would have been taken off and replaced with Nike logo's

[kingjammy24]

Re: AMI 1993 Emmitt Smith Game Worn Jersey

i think this sort of thing may happen more often than we would like to believe ...

agreed. i imagine it happens quite a lot given a) the hundreds of bad items sold each year by auction houses b) the "all sales final" policy that most of them employ. mears is the only organization i know with a buy-back policy.

in every major auction, there always seem to be a few bad items. well what happens when a buyer spends a considerable amount only to later find out that the item is bad? are they just going to sit there and say "oh well, $5k down the drain. lesson learned"? most will raise hell and the auction house will point to their "all sales final" policy in some sad attempt to absolve themselves of any liability. the more tenacious buyers will likely threaten legal action and the auction house wants to make it all go away. afterall, what auction house wants to appear in the daily news in a story about selling a fake jordan shooting shirt for example? well i don't know of any auction house that has a buy-back guarantee. so how's the auction house going to placate some enraged buyer who's just lost a good deal of money and is making all sorts of threats? especially if this buyer is a long-time customer? they only thing they can do: offer to toss it back in their next auction. they can't very well refuse because that'd be an admission that they sold the buyer a bad shirt and would sink them in any lawsuit. there's no refusal to buy back the bad item, no admission of any wrongdoing, they'll just run it through the ringer again and toss it back into the market onto some other hapless buyer who they hope won't find out it's bad or have the tenacity to pursue a remedy when they do. and what do you do if you're an auction house owner and receive several emails illustrating why an item is bad? apparently, if you're victor moreno you keep your trap shut and hope it all just goes away. after all, you've got bills to pay and things are apparently so bad that you take months to pay your consigners.

rudy.

[hblakewolf]

Re: AMI 1993 Emmitt Smith Game Worn Jersey

The shirt is no longer listed in the AMI auction.

Chalk up yet another authenticating blunder by the great Lou Lampson and the 100% Authentic Team at American Memorabilia.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@comcast.net

[lund6771]

Re: AMI 1993 Emmitt Smith Game Worn Jersey

I wonder if it'll be on e-bay next

[kingjammy24]

Re: AMI 1993 Emmitt Smith Game Worn Jersey

someone just took a $5k bath. i think the removal of the item is really interesting because it's a clear admission by the auction house itself that the item they said was good in '07 isn't good anymore. who's going to eat that cost then? at this point, i can't imagine it's the consigner. afterall, AMI sold this jersey and they authenticated it as legit. hard to see how they wouldn't entirely be on the hook. i also can't imagine it's lou. i'm sure lou still got paid. creative storytelling doesn't come free.

anyway, it seems i was wrong when i said that mears is the only organization with a buyback policy. i asked rob lifson, of robert edwards auctions, what recourse a buyer would have with REA if they purchased a non-game used item and that item was later found to be fake. rob's answer: "we would give a full refund immediately". (for game-used items, i imagine the recourse would go through MEARS and their buy-back policy given that they handle the game-used items for REA).

a long time ago, victor was asked, by the NY Daily News, why he doesn't use MEARS. his answer: "American Memorabilia president Victor Moreno, for example, says his auction house doesn’t use MEARS because of an embarrassing previous experience with MEARS authenticator Dave Bushing." so i guess after this smith incident, he'll stop using lou?

found this video on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0JK_...eature=channel

i thought this exchange was particularly interesting:

Q - CNBC: How do you avoid getting caught buying a fake? How do you look for authenticity?

A - Kieta of AMI: Well, primarily when you're looking to purchase, especially when you're a novice, you want to look at the company; who you're purchasing from, what their ethic is, what their practices are, authenticity that they do within house..

yeah.

rudy.

[lund6771]

Re: AMI 1993 Emmitt Smith Game Worn Jersey

In the latest AMI Catalogue on page 3 in Kity's own words...

"AMI has made some great changes this year as well, with quick consignment payouts, we look forward to yeliding the best prices, in the industry maintaining our excellent quality and impeccable customer service."


note*- The bold face in this thread is identical to Kity's catalogue statement

[hblakewolf]

Re: AMI 1993 Emmitt Smith Game Worn Jersey

In the latest AMI Catalogue on page 3 in Kity's own words...

"AMI has made some great changes this year as well, with quick consignment payouts, we look forward to yeliding the best prices, in the industry maintaining our excellent quality and impeccable customer service."


note*- The bold face in this thread is identical to Kity's catalogue statement

Lund-
Possibly these new changes are a direct result of this past Forum thread:

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=21955&highlight=ami+pay

If not, maybe from this:

http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/american-memorabilia-c151168.html

Or possibly this:

http://www.merchantcircle.com/business/American.Memorabilia.Inc.702-243-7822

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@comcast.net

[kingjammy24]

Re: AMI 1993 Emmitt Smith Game Worn Jersey

so here's the really amusing part of victor saying he doesn't want to use MEARS; assuming, for discussions sake, that AMI was the one who ate the cost of the smith jersey. lou's idiocy cost victor $5k. the amusing part? had victor gone with MEARS, MEARS, via their buyback guarantee, would've been the ones on the hook for the money! victor could've wiped his hands clean of it. instead he chose to go with lou and in return he pretty much got what he paid for.

rudy.

[hblakewolf]

Re: AMI 1993 Emmitt Smith Game Worn Jersey

Current info. posted directly on the AMI site:

Do Emmit Smith Gamers in 1993 have handwarmers? Hide threads | Keyboard Shortcuts

• Do Emmit Smith Gamers in 1993 have handwarmers?
  
  americanmemorabilia 2:19 pm on August 13, 2009 Permalink | Log in to leave a Comment
  
  
  #gallery-1 { margin: auto; } #gallery-1 .gallery-item { float: left; margin-top: 10px; text-align: center; width: 50%; } #gallery-1 img { border: 2px solid #cfcfcf; } #gallery-1 .gallery-caption { margin-left: 0; }
  
  
  In a previous auction we offered an Emmitt Smith game-worn Cowboys jersey from 1993, when Emmitt was racking up yards and winning a handful of Super Bowl rings.
  There were questions about the inserted handwarmer pockets. The reason of the addition of pockets was because the Cowboys didn’t know if they would have to hit the road for a postseason contest and needed a jersey to combat the bitter cold. So they most likely took a gamer and installed the handwarmer pockets.
  Another point of reference is to look no further than the Thomas Everett jersey we offered from the same year. Everett was a common player and the built-in pockets are the exact same as this one. Please click on the photos of each for expanded and more decisive evidence.
  Also worth mentioning is the double-sided tape which is used on the inside. Running backs like a tight fit and Emmitt was no different. A number of runners over the years have instituted such a practice to keep the pads tight to the jersey.
  The use is also outstanding with numerous dings and signs of use.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  Rate This
  
  
  
  

Solid authenticating with "..most likely.." and bringing up "double sided tape" to validate the handwarmer pocket?

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@comcast.net

[lund6771]

Re: AMI 1993 Emmitt Smith Game Worn Jersey

Howard..

The creative story telling continues...I think that AMI should re-read post #'s 1 & 8 in this thread...then re-re read them...and then re-re-re read them

this shirt is 100% bunk...