Game Used Cowboys Helmet Listed Again...

[aeneas01]

http://cgi.ebay.com/1994-DALLAS-COWBOYS-GAME-USED-WORN-HELMET_W0QQitemZ300143414316QQihZ020QQcategoryZ86828QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

as i mentioned in a thread some time ago, this helmet was originally listed on ebay in march as a "game used" cowboys helmet once belonging to "mccormack" (note name on dymo tape) - it sold for $60 (a steal). i do not know who the seller or buyer was.

in june it showed up again on ebay but this time around the "mccormack" dymo tape was replaced by a "lett" dymo tape and it was listed as a "game used leon lett helmet". i contacted the seller (gridironcowboys) who promptly replied that he had purchased it from a dealer for $400+ and must have got taken. i asked who the dealer was and he responded that he didn't feel right divulging this info.

now, two months later, gridironcowboys has listed the helmet again only this time around he is calling it a game used mccormack helmet. what i find interesting about his ad is that it appears he has intentionally obscured the dymo tape. why would he do this, especially given that he was careful to display the dymo tape very clearly when he listed it as a lett helmet?

his ad states: "On the center stripe is a dymo tape stripe with a well-worn “ McCORMACK ” identifier."

so how is this possible? if he was "taken" by a dealer thinking it was a lett helmet, as he has told me, then i'm sure the helmet didn't come with the mccormack dymo - just as i'm equally sure he didn't discover the mccormack dymo hidden underneath the lett dymo. as such, this guy has either a) made up his own "well-worn "mccormack" identifier" and failed to mention this in his ad or b) he was the original buyer and has reapplied the original mccormack dymo. if he did make up his own "mccormack" dymo, it looks like he's equally adept at making it looked ragged and worn as the guy who made up the lett dymo. hmmm... for the record i've contacted him about this and, not surprisingly, have not heard back.

here's what he told me the first time around when i asked him how the mccormack helmet had suddenly become a lett helmet:

#1

It sure looks like the same helmet to me! I will contact the dealer I got it from and see what he has to say about it! This is why I no longer collect this stuff. I just lost $400+ dollars!

#2

Yea, I sent the guy I bought it from an e-mail and have not received a reply yet. I don't think I will. I guess I just got took... This helmet has no players' number inside, so I could just remove the label on the back and sell it as a game used helmet -player unknown. I'm sure it would still be a wonderful helmet for some Cowboys fan. I don't see very many with that kind of wear. Looks like it's been in a war. That's the trouble with Cowboys game used helmets, it's very easy to change the player. If the Cowboys used a players number stickers on the back, that would make it a little harder.

Thanks again for your help. I can't stress how much honesty means in a hobby like this. I couldn't sleep at night if I ripped collectors off. I wish all collectors and dealers would feel the same. I've lost my enjoyment of this hobby because of this kind of stuff, but I hope you still get a lot of enjoyment from it. Thanks again and take care.

#3

I'm very sorry, but I really don't want to give out his name or business since I don't know for sure if he was the one at fault. Don't want to make an innocent person look guilty. He did recently e-mail me back and is going to work it out with me. He seems to be very nice and honest. It was more than I could have hoped for. He said he purchased quite a few items from the same source and has had nothing but problems with all of them. Thanks again for all your help and I hope you continue to have fun with your collecting.

================================

here are photos of the lid:

1 = first time it was listed as a mccormack helmet
2 = when it was listed as a lett helmet
3 = current listing, as a mccormack helmet

[jayt1234]

I saw that helmet yesterday..

I wanted to mention it here because I remember your great job on researching this exact helmet a few months ago... I too noticed he did not show the dymo tape label in the photo as well....Would be very curious how he relabeled it...Not certain how stick on numbers would be easier to keep thing easier to authenticate as they are just as easy to get copies of...I think the original dymo tape would be harder to replicate wear, and age, but someone sure did do a good job on the Lett lettering.

[aeneas01]

Re: I saw that helmet yesterday..

... Would be very curious how he relabeled it...Not certain how stick on numbers would be easier to keep thing easier to authenticate as they are just as easy to get copies of...I think the original dymo tape would be harder to replicate wear, and age, but someone sure did do a good job on the Lett lettering.

i've concluded that everything this guy has told me is both jibberish and a pack of lies and i'm convinced he was the original buyer who changed the dymo tape from "maccormack" to "lett" in an effort to try and make the lid more valuable. further, i believe he has the original "maccormack" dymo tape but chose not to show a picture of it given his previous lie that he purchased the helmet from a dealer with the "lett" tape.

not only did he take the time to put together a convincing, well-worn "lett" dymo tape but he has also photoshopped his current listing to cover the "lett" dymo tape - in short, the helmet shown in his current ad does not have a "mac" dymo tape on it; it has the "lett" tape which has been doctored using a program such as photoshop...

here's a photo comparing his two ads - the first group is from when he listed it as a "lett" lid and the second group is from his current "mac" listing. notice that most of the photos are identical except the two dymo shots (red circles, green squares). gotta love how this guy chose to show the dymo tape area in his current ad (red circle) - gee, i wonder why he did this?



here's a closer look comparing the dymo shots in the green squares - i superimposed the "mac" photo from the current listing on top of the "lett" photo from his previous listing to show that it's the same photo, an exact match. except for the fact that the dymo tape on the new "mac" listing has been doctored using photoshop. it was doctored to a) appear different in shape from the "lett" tape and b) to look well-worn as well. what you see is not a "mac" dymo tape - the guy simply doctored the "lett" tape to cover the lettering and to give it a different shape.



here's a blow up of the doctored dymo tape from his current listing (green square) - notice that there's no name at all present. if you blow it up even more you can see that he used a program like photoshop to do this. notice how he was careful to give it a shape similar to the original "mac" tape, which i believe he still has and which he will include with the helmet.



anyone up for contacting this crook through ebay and a) asking for a clear shot of the "mac" tape and b) pointing him to this thread? i would but he now knows me and refuses to respond to my emails.

gotta love his bs...

"I can't stress how much honesty means in a hobby like this. I couldn't sleep at night if I ripped collectors off. I wish all collectors and dealers would feel the same. I've lost my enjoyment of this hobby because of this kind of stuff, but I hope you still get a lot of enjoyment from it."

[jayt1234]

Helmet sold for $108.45

<nm>

[Larry Pelliccioni]

Re: Game Used Cowboys Helmet Listed Again...

A very interesting thread and somewhat disheartening. I have spent the last 33 years collecting game worn and game used items. Among them and really the items I love the most are game worn football helmets. I don't care who might have worn them which is a big departure from the current collector who demands to know who, when and what and this is an example of why they have become so fussy.
I have in my collection and also in my inventory Dallas Cowboy's helmets. Some have the dymo tape on back and other's do not.
There seems to be a growing resentment and mistrust for those of us who try to deal in them. I guess trust is no longer enough. I have bought, sold and traded over 700 helmets in the last 6 years. I have a policy with my source that they must first pass my muster as far as me being able to ascertain that it is "game worn" but I don't have the resources to photomatch, dna or know exactly in every case who wore it, when or where it was worn and so alot of nice helmets either get rejected and returned or not offfered.
Perhaps not on this board but on others I have developed a reputation of being a person of integrity. The hobby notwithstanding, my good name means more to me than any of the over 2000 items I have in my collection.
Fraud hurts everyone.
Just a reminder to those who engage in it, you know who knows.
Larry Pelliccioni

[aeneas01]

Re: Game Used Cowboys Helmet Listed Again...

A very interesting thread and somewhat disheartening. I have spent the last 33 years collecting game worn and game used items. Among them and really the items I love the most are game worn football helmets. I don't care who might have worn them which is a big departure from the current collector who demands to know who, when and what and this is an example of why they have become so fussy.
I have in my collection and also in my inventory Dallas Cowboy's helmets. Some have the dymo tape on back and other's do not.
There seems to be a growing resentment and mistrust for those of us who try to deal in them. I guess trust is no longer enough. I have bought, sold and traded over 700 helmets in the last 6 years. I have a policy with my source that they must first pass my muster as far as me being able to ascertain that it is "game worn" but I don't have the resources to photomatch, dna or know exactly in every case who wore it, when or where it was worn and so alot of nice helmets either get rejected and returned or not offfered.
Perhaps not on this board but on others I have developed a reputation of being a person of integrity. The hobby notwithstanding, my good name means more to me than any of the over 2000 items I have in my collection.
Fraud hurts everyone.
Just a reminder to those who engage in it, you know who knows.
Larry Pelliccioni

i'm like you when it comes to the helmets i collect are concerned - i'm just not very interested in who might have worn the lid. what interests me most is the helmet's authenticity, rarity, uniqueness and age. i like the drip marks from sloppily applied paint of the '60s, the unevenly placed decals applied by unconcerned old-school equipment managers, the chipped paint, the black-brown leather jaw pads, the bent and scarred facemasks, etc... i guess the major reason why i'm not very interested in who wore the lid is because, with very few exceptions, there's just no way of knowing for certain.

what concerns me most about "fake" helmets is not the guy who purchases readily available stock lids, decals, paint gun, etc. and puts together a helmet which he sells as "game issued". it's the guy who takes an authentic game used helmet, especially a vintage authentic game used helmet, and scribbles a player's number inside in order to pass it off as once belonging to a current or future hall of famer - these sort of helmets seem to have no problem earning coas. i'm especially concerned that this happens far too often with helmets that are purchased at team auctions, i.e., they are converted into helmets once belonging and used by big-name players.

needless to say the demand for authentic game used equipment far exceeds the supply - yet, there never seems to be a shortage of collectors (almost always newbies) who aren't at all surprised to see so many big-name game used items seemingly always available at auction.

in another thread i posted my email exchange with ebayer gridironauthentics who came up with an absolutely ridiculous story as to why his/their "game issue" favre helmets were authentic - something about how these helmets were only 4 such helmets to have ever been issued by so-and-so reconditioner and that it was their understanding that this particular reconditioner serviced the green bay packers. the double-talk and nonsense that gridironauthentics spewed in this email exchange was as mind-numbing as it was shameless.

yet a simply call to "red" batty, equipment manager of the green bay packers, made the issue perfectly clear - he plainly told me that none of favre's game issued or game worn helmets are in circulation. btw, "red" is a great and friendly guy who is more than used to fielding such questions.

fwiw, three days ago i had a friend email the crook that sold the cowboys helmet - here's what my friend wrote (he has not received a response):

It looks like someone is calling you a crook at an internet forum for game used sports gear. Can you explain why you didn't include a clear picture of the player's name tag? Or better yet can you add a clear picture?

Tyler

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=10375

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=8837