Fred Lynn Red Sox Jersey - Thoughts?

[kingjammy24]

from the yaz jerseys i've seen tonight, they were all size 42.

rudy.

woops..brain misfired..thought this was about a yaz jersey. heh!

rudy.

[1986&2004Bosox]

and if you notice the 75 yaz shirt in AMI no blue trim and the 77 yaz in lelands no blue trim? So I guess people lost almost 6k on those 2 shirts if we are to go with Mr. Lewis theory that to this point is not backed by proof.

However about the order sheets Mr.Lewis has the order sheets for the Red Sox. He has stated this in emails to me, so if those exist then wouldn't other records exist to prove his position?

[1986&2004Bosox]

rudy it's not even about size of shirts it's about blue trim in the neck tagging which without it Mr.Lewis says is a retail aftermarket shirt all I have said is prove your statement. He say's that aftermarket ordering was all word of mouth, if it was profitable why not advertise that you could get any shirt you wanted made up? Why didn't stores carry the jerseys? His comments just dont ad up to me with out proof it is just alot of he said she said.

[1986&2004Bosox]

Rudy looks like someone got screwed for 6 k on the 75 fisk in robert edwards auction on the Fisk at least according to Mr. Lewis as size is wrong, tags are in the wrong place and there is no blue around the McAullife tag which is on the tail but should be in the neck.

Mr.Lewis might be the nicest guy in the world but he is off base on this issue.

[1986&2004Bosox]

Finally King the authenticator is not behind bars because no one has gone after him if collectors filled a class action against him you would see things change. Don't even try using the Arod line on me LOL. This has nothing to do with age it has to do with facts. Fact is we as collectors have not pushed the issue and put the heat to get the bad people out of the industry. When we have people have done a good amount of time behind bars. Their is no time limit on fraud charges can be pressed at anytime.

[1986&2004Bosox]

One final thought either the Fred Lynn pic that King posted is badly discolored or that jersey is a FAKE and no I am not joking.

Roads had Boston across the front not Red Sox. Home had Red Sox and that jersey does not look white at all to me. What are your thoughts Mr.Lewis?

Im done for the night as this has tired me out.

[beantown]

Lets add more confusion...this jersey appears on fredlynn.net....

A '77 Gamer in a size 42 and with "blue" bordered tagging....

[flaco1801]

while your at it why dont you find out about the 75 red sox bi centennial patches... or the lack there of

[kingjammy24]

let me preface all of my comments by saying i know nothing about mcauliffe shirts or 70s red sox shirts at all. now, on to the tertiary issues. before i comment, i have 2 questions for you and i mean them in earnest. i'm not being facetious here.

1) are you the seller of this '77 lynn jersey?

2) how long have you been in this hobby?

i ask because some of the notions you're advancing are just completely out to lunch; the idea that an auction house would never knowingly sell something bad because the authorities are going catch it all. you then admit they haven't caught it all because we haven't pressed it. whatever the reason is, the point is they miss most of it and that's why auction houses feel confident passing off garbage because they know nothing will happen.
secondly, fraud requires intent. an auction house or authenticator could always just say they didn't know it was bad. at worst it's negligence and they'll take the risk given the complete lack of prosecution we've seen so far. you talk about people doing a "good amount of time behind bars". forget operation bullpen because that wasn't about the game-used hobby or even auction houses at all! it was about autographs. tell me who in the game-used or auction house milieu has done time behind bars? provide a single name.
you say operation bullpen is still going strong. what on earth does catching autograph forgeries have to do with the game-used hobby or auction houses? auction houses won't dare sell a bad jersey because an autograph forgery ring in socal got busted? where's the logic?

"So I guess people lost almost 6k on those 2 shirts"
"Rudy looks like someone got screwed for 6 k on the 75 fisk in robert edwards auction"

yes, so they lost $6k. what's your point? you keep bringing up the fact that people spent big money on shirts as if it has any relevance to anything. are you implying that if a shirt sells for a large sum then it must be good? are you serious? people lost $50 BILLION with bernie madoff. according to your logic, bernie must be innocent because people couldn't possibly lose $50 billion, right?

here's a 1994 mcgwire with wrong colored NOB! sold for over $1400: http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=22278 . woopsy! hey how did operation bullpen miss that one?

here someone gets screwed for over $4400 on this bonds shirt at REA because mears apparently thought barry wore shirts with no tags and that a 2001 "bonds authenticated" patch should have a year on it: http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/auction/2007/1201.html

yes people buy things they don't understand all the time. yes people end up losing big money. are you just beginning to realize this now? too bad you didn't pick up the $100k namath superbowl helmet that turned out to be bad. to this day you'd be arguing against the photo evidence on the basis that you spent $100k on it, therefore it must be good.

"so if those exist then wouldn't other records exist to prove his position?"

no. again, where's the logic? the existance of one set of records does not automatically mean the existance of another. these companies didn't keep immaculate records to account for everything. even the H&B records are incomplete and in several areas an illegible mess. if you don't want to believe lon, then don't. it seems like you're fighting tooth and nail not to believe him in a manner that's very reminiscent of scott byergo telling me i was wrong about bo jackson ever having scoreboard shirts. of course, having already purchased them, it seemed like scott wasn't so much interested in the truth as he was in trying to preserve the value of his own shirts.

rudy.

[1986&2004Bosox]

King the point of the argument is that THEIR IS NO EVIDENCE NO PROOF of what Mr. Lewis is stating.

He states that the neck tags without the blue border were after market jeresy's but then state that that practice did not come into play till the 80ties.

So if that pratice did not come into play in till the 80ties what is his issue with a 1970ties shirt? He is casting a wide scope without proof.

If this were a situation like Anaconda Kaye where you see order forms for game bats in the SCD then he can make his argument. This is not the case his only argument is the lack of blue neck tagging makes it a "word of mouth" beer league ordered jersey. That argument is just laughable without PROOF when The lettering, tagging, size everything is correct.

King I have been in the hobby 20 plus years.

People who got busted for selling bogus stuff Broadway Rick, MLB umpires.

Auction houses can not argue they did not know they are proporting the items to be game used and if proven not to be they have the legal responsibility to resolve the issue. Think of it as the lemon law, it is the responsibility of the seller to represent the item in the right manor.

Bullpen was and is about more than just autographs as evident by the FBI at the National.

The intent is there, the intent is to profit by selling an item that is knowingly incorrect they have opened themselves to that standard by having conducted previous auctions for profit.

Negligence is isolated, fraud is repeating the same behavior over and over again with the same results in this situation profit.

This hobby need to be cleaned up however it also needs to be cleaned up in a manor in which it is fact based not he said she said.

All I have asked for from the outset is proof from Mr. Lewis which he has been unable to provide. All he has stated is he knows it happened.

Scoreboard, Anaconda/Kaye ads exist aka proof. Provide some and then I will believe him.

If the borderless neck tagged shirts are wrong then auction houses need to go back and refund the purchasers.

My argument is I find it irresponsible for Mr. Lewis to toss his statement out there without more than word of mouth and I know this happened as his proof.