Bonds Clemens and Sosa on HOF ballot

[jppopma]

I personally like the high percentage required to make it into baseball's HOF. I am sure the writers are split just as many of the fans, so it will be interesting to see if any of the three can get enough votes.

Part of me begins to think that if its an era, just let them be mentioned in that light and not inducted themselves as players. But like Joel mentions, the players should be judged by what they did for the game at the time they were playing. Just take a look at some of the pitchers from the dead ball era that made it onto the hall of fame (I know there will be those who disagree with dead ball vs. "cheating").

The steroid era was much more that just the use of steroids. It was a change in the opinions and styles of hitters. Back in the 80's players didn't hit the weight very hard and strive to bulk up to hit the ball longer. Another thing to remember is that many of these drugs were not outlawed at the time they were being used (debatable if the players were trying to stay one step ahead or not).

If we assume that all players (pitchers and batters) were both using steroids, then things should be equal and those who stood above the rest should be acknowledged for that.

[Chris78]

To answer the question above with percentages for 1st year on ballot:

Barry Bonds: 40-50%
Roger Clemens: 40-50%
Sammy Sosa: 15-20%

Bonds and Clemens would have been HOFers without the use of PEDs, but the use or expected use of PEDs will keep them out as first ballot HOFers. Their percentages will go up a lot next year, but they still might not make it. Sammy Sosa may not have been a HOFer without the use or expected use of PEDs. By the way, Mike Piazza may have used as well. Curt Schilling and Craig Biggio are not as good as the other players named above, and probably are not first ballot. Jack Morris, Tim Raines, Jeff Bagwell, and Lee Smith are not as good as the 6 players (Bonds, Clemens, Piazza, Sosa, Schilling, and Biggio) that are on their first ballot this year. This situation could also make some eligible players get booted off the ballot because voters can only vote for 10 players (i.e. Mattingly, etc.).

By the way, one person who does not belong in the HOF is Bud Selig. If he would not have let the issue of steroids go in the first place, we would not be having this problem today.

Chris

[hfd0035]

Dont know what the percentages are but they should all be in. I'd be willing to bet at least 60-70%, maybe more, of MLB was most likely enhanced. Steroid users are already in so whats the difference? Steroid pitching to steroid hitting equals the playing field to me. Ozzie Canseco proves you must have talent....

[1929tudor]

If any of these juicers get in the Hall then Rose should to. No different than what Rose did. Actually it's worse in my opinion. These guys used drugs to better themselves physically to put up numbers and to get the big money contracts and Rose played the game with a clean body and natuaral talent. Gambiling didn't do anything to affect his personal performance on the field.

[trsent]

If any of these juicers get in the Hall then Rose should to. No different than what Rose did. Actually it's worse in my opinion. These guys used drugs to better themselves physically to put up numbers and to get the big money contracts and Rose played the game with a clean body and natuaral talent. Gambiling didn't do anything to affect his personal performance on the field.

I'm a big fan of Pete Rose and believes he has been punished long enough and he should be in the hall, but managing a team and betting on your team to win is very dangerous. Decisions could be made based on your wager and not in the best interest of playing a full season.

[earlywynnfan]

To answer the question above with percentages for 1st year on ballot:

Barry Bonds: 40-50%
Roger Clemens: 40-50%
Sammy Sosa: 15-20%

Bonds and Clemens would have been HOFers without the use of PEDs, but the use or expected use of PEDs will keep them out as first ballot HOFers. Their percentages will go up a lot next year, but they still might not make it. Sammy Sosa may not have been a HOFer without the use or expected use of PEDs. By the way, Mike Piazza may have used as well. Curt Schilling and Craig Biggio are not as good as the other players named above, and probably are not first ballot. Jack Morris, Tim Raines, Jeff Bagwell, and Lee Smith are not as good as the 6 players (Bonds, Clemens, Piazza, Sosa, Schilling, and Biggio) that are on their first ballot this year. This situation could also make some eligible players get booted off the ballot because voters can only vote for 10 players (i.e. Mattingly, etc.).

By the way, one person who does not belong in the HOF is Bud Selig. If he would not have let the issue of steroids go in the first place, we would not be having this problem today.

Chris

Do you blame Selig more than the Player's Union? Also, more fans then ever were pouring through the gates, and NOBODY was questioning steroids. Why should he stop the gravy train??

[Chris78]

Do you blame Selig more than the Player's Union? Also, more fans then ever were pouring through the gates, and NOBODY was questioning steroids. Why should he stop the gravy train??

I personally was against no action being taken back in the late 90's. I remember being in college and saying that records would be broken and then the perception would be tainted in the end. That is where it is now. I felt then and today that Bud Selig is the main reason why we have this mess. He also should not go in the HOF as a result.

Pete Rose broke the cardinal rule of baseball. Statistically speaking he is a HOFer, but gambling on baseball is the reason why he is not in. I personally do not care if goes in. I understand both sides of the equation.

You can make the argument that no one should go in the HOF this year. In a year where you had at least 4 guys that should be first ballot based on stats, this class is tainted. The holdovers are not as good either.

Chris

[earlywynnfan]

I've always thought I'd put Pete in and stamp in capitals across the bottom of his plaque: BANNED FOR BETTING ON BB AS A MANAGER. On the other hand, I don't feel the loss if he doesn't make it.

I wouldn't put any of the steroids guys in, for reasons stated here by others. Bonds and Clemens both would have made it easily without the steroids, so they are kind of in Pete's place: on the outside due to their own demons.

As for who DOES get in, I say Piazza hands-down. I've always wondered why people were always so down on him. Really, what more do you want from a catcher??

I think Biggio will be an interesting case. He did reach that magic landmark of 3000 hits, which is impressive no matter what. But during his career, did anyone EVER say "there goes a HOFer!"?? I think not.

Selig: yes, the steroids are disappointing. But he has also run the league through it's most prosperous years ever. Before you laugh or sneer "TV money," check out the attendance levels. Really, was Bowie Kuhn better? Ford Frick??? There are a lot of ills in baseball, but there always has been, and the highs he's reached are higher than almost any other Commish.

I think Jack Morris and Tim Raines were incredible players who are vastly overlooked. I hate myself for saying this, but there's much worse in the HOF.

Ken

[joelsabi]

on Selig, withholding his negligence in the steroid matter this is what i see as his accomplishments.


how about making the all star game count for home field advantage.
how about stopping the all star game in a tie
how about cancelling a world series

[Bondsgloves]

I think the Hall will elect somebody , they want a ceremony every year. Cooperstown's economically needs a induction ceremony every year, its all about the money. Frankly I didn't think Barry Larkin was a HOFer he benefitted from a weak class...

As a Bonds collector I could care less either way.

I think Pete Rose is more relevent and collectible today because he is not in the Hall. People bring up his name in conversation and debate every year because he is not in.. If he was in people wouldn't be talking about him nearly as much. Do you think as many people would know a bout shoeless joe if he had been elected? If he had already been elected not as many people would ever no who he is. I think the players that are kept out even though deserving... are more famous for not being in than if they were elected.