Vintage vs Modern Debate

[solarlottry]

I would have to know the definition of "vintage" as I am sure that various collectors consider different time frames as such. Technically if an item is 20 or more years old it is considered vintage but I have seen vintage also used to describe items that are 7 years or older. To me 7 years seems WAY too short of a time frame for an item to be "vintage"!

As a 49er collector who has a # of different 49er collectors as friends, it is interesting to hear what each one considers vintage.

I have one friend who has 49er gamers from 1946 to 1994 and he considers the 1946-1960s items to be "vintage". I know 2 or 3 other collectors who consider early to mid 1980s jerseys as vintage. They are both correct according to the dictionary!

Teams view their uniforms very differently than they did even 5-10 years ago. Many teams who NEVER sold anything are now selling some items at huge $$$ amounts and are not having a problem selling whatever they list in their pro-shop (Packers for example).

Other like the 49ers have sold their gamers on and off for over 30 years. One of my friends has cancelled checks from 1987, written to the 49ers, for the purchase of GU jerseys.

I consider all of my pre 1990 49er gamers as vintage as, except for a few select players, the majority of players wore 2 home and 2 away shirts the entire season. Also practice shirts were recycled gamers without the nameplate. A player lucky enough to wear #64 or #74 wound up wearing Fred Dean's or Hacksaw Reynolds's gamers as practice shirts.

In fact the 1994 team all wore 1980s and in some cases late 70s gamers, as practice shirts. Ken Norton wore an old Randy Cross gamer in practice for the 2 weeks preceding the SB.

Even though Montana and Rice (to a lesser extent) wore one shirt a game for almost all of 1988-1990, his vintage gamers from those seasons are all but impossible to locate and purchase.

Some of my favorite GU 49er shirts are from 1994. Many are recycled from 1991-1993 and depending on the player, were worn in multiple games. Although, technically, these shirts are not yet "vintage" (I guess I have to wait a couple more years!) they are well made, have good game use, repairs and customizations which imparts the "character" that I love and crave in a GU item. Since the 94 throwbacks were based on the teams 1955 uniforms their is almost a built in vintage quality to them.

I am much more careful with my budget when buying todays gamers. As multiple posters have stated-one shirt from players you like is enough these days. They wear too many and with so many out in the marketplace for sale or being sold that "specialness" is sometimes lost.

I will almost always buy any 49er gamer from 1981-1994 but after that I become much more thrifty and critical in my decision making process.

I think we ALL enjoy seeing the vintage items from baseball, hoops and football.The fact that it is so difficult to acquire makes it even more special!

If anyone wants to sell me a Fred Dean, Russ Francis, Freddie Solomon or a Hacksaw Reynolds feel free to contact me at any time!!! I am always in the mood to expand my "vintage" collection!!!

Paul
garciajones@yahoo.com

Some vintage gamer images including mid 80s Lott, Fuller, Haley, 1989 Montana, 1994 Hanks uniform with jersey recycled from 1992, 1993 Romo uni worn entire season and a Joe Cribbs 1986 uniform complete with rare 40th Anniversary patch.

[commando]

The Winston-Salem Cardinals were a minor league team, sponsored by the St. Louis Cardinals, that existed from 1945-1953. Major Leaguers that played for the team include Johnny Klippstein, Hal Rice, Steve Bilko, Harvey Haddix, Rip Repulski, Stu Miller, Don Blasingame and Hall of Famer Earl Weaver, to name a few. This heavy jacket was worn by a player with the nickname "Chubby" (his name is embroidered on a tag in the pocket.

I'm telling you, this piece is so incredibly vintage it makes you want to punch your mamma. You can bet that even advanced Cardinals collectors have never seen one of these.... There's just no way to compare this to a "Starter" jacket from the 1990s.

[both-teams-played-hard]

That's a mighty fine Cardinals jacket. The "Chubby" name swatch is golden.

[commando]

That's a mighty fine Cardinals jacket. The "Chubby" name swatch is golden.

Thanks... And hey, you're just the fellow to ask....

I thought this might be a travel jacket, since they were standard travel wear for many teams back in the day. But this has a zipper front and is quite heavy (outdoor jacket heavy, and too heavy for my 3-pound mail scale to measure), which leads me to believe this may have been a "bench jacket" worn over their uniforms. Kind of a classy hybrid.

Any ideas?

[invintagewetrust]

First of all that's a great looking cards jacket, definitely have never seen one. Love the longer car club styling on it, and bakelite buttons on the cuffs.

I would lean towards this being a traveling jacket because of the longer fit, very 50s.

Vintage athletic jackets are so rich in history and craftsmanship, in my opinion they bring so much more to the table then a jersey can.

[both-teams-played-hard]

I would lean towards this being a traveling jacket because of the longer fit, very 50s.

It is really hard to say without some sort of style match. I would think a separate jacket for traveling for a minor league team is rare, but possible. I know teams from all levels wore heavy wool jackets in the dugout, too.

[karamaxjoe]

The Winston-Salem Cardinals were a minor league team, sponsored by the St. Louis Cardinals, that existed from 1945-1953. Major Leaguers that played for the team include Johnny Klippstein, Hal Rice, Steve Bilko, Harvey Haddix, Rip Repulski, Stu Miller, Don Blasingame and Hall of Famer Earl Weaver, to name a few. This heavy jacket was worn by a player with the nickname "Chubby" (his name is embroidered on a tag in the pocket.

I'm telling you, this piece is so incredibly vintage it makes you want to punch your mamma. You can bet that even advanced Cardinals collectors have never seen one of these.... There's just no way to compare this to a "Starter" jacket from the 1990s.

Did you ever figure out who Chubby was? I found a prewar player named Chubby Dean that retired after the war, but still coached and managed in the minors. The one thing that may tie him to the jacket was that he was inducted into the Winston Salem Baseball Hall of Fame in 2004.

[invintagewetrust]

I did some fairly nonchalant online research to see if I could get a photo of someone on the Cardinals wearing the aforementioned jacket, alas I did not. What I did find was this blog entry, http://boblemke.blogspot.com/2011/05...cardinals.html

The gentleman who owns the blog writes about how he owns an entire scrapbook of the early 1950's minor league Cardinals team, who knows maybe there's a photo of the jacket in action in that scrapbook!

[commando]

Thanks for all the help, guys.... The Chubby Dean lead seems promising, definitely something to look into. The Winston-Salem Cardinals jacket is just one example of how much fun it is to find an older piece of sports history, then have to do a bit of legwork and research to figure out exactly what you have. On another thread someone found an old "Harlem" basketball jersey, which is another great example. I would much rather spend my time researching a vintage item like this, as opposed to trying to figure out whether a newer authentic jersey with no provenance was really issued by a team!

[staindsox]

I did some fairly nonchalant online research to see if I could get a photo of someone on the Cardinals wearing the aforementioned jacket, alas I did not. What I did find was this blog entry, http://boblemke.blogspot.com/2011/05...cardinals.html

The gentleman who owns the blog writes about how he owns an entire scrapbook of the early 1950's minor league Cardinals team, who knows maybe there's a photo of the jacket in action in that scrapbook!

Bob is great. He used to edit the big SCD card book. Drop him an email. I would bet that he would be happy to help.