Fan in Boston gets g/u bat taken away

[suicide_squeeze]

Pretty much the point of my post. The bat is the teams property. If they say they want it back, you'll give it back or they'll escort you from the stadium empty handed. This entire thread has turned into a senseless arguement because a few don't seem to get reality, they are obsessed with the whole "finders keepers" mentality. Which, btw, doesn't not apply in this or many other facets of adult life.

Where's your proof, NYCrulesU?

You guys can come up with all of these rediculous examples that are completely unrelated to the act of a bat flying into the stands.....and you can state whatever your feelings are about logic, theft, the theory of relativity, whatever......but you have yet to show one shread of evidence that there is a written rule that states if a bat flies into the stands, you HAVE TO give it back.

It is NOT theft. That's absurb. You didn't jump the fence and run into the dugout and grab it out of the rack and take off with a trail of security on your tail. It is an incident of pure chance at a baseball game. And I say if the player is inept at hanging onto his own bat, thereby placing the fans in danger by hurling it into the seats.....the least he can do is walk over to the batboy who, having just grabbed another $60.00 bat out of the rack, will hand him another, and try a little harder to do his job without endangering the very fans who pay him his fat contract.

If a security guard comes at me because I am hanging onto a bat that was just airborn into the seats......right at me......they will NOT be taking if from me, PERIOD. I don't care what your perception is, what law you THINK I'm breaking, or how attached the overpayed multi-millionaire baseball player is to his game prepared bat.....it's MINE! That's the way it goes, and it is a very rare occurance. So for the last time, the player, the team personal, and security, should just back off and allow the fan to keep the bat. Otherwise, they should have the snot sued out of them.

I can't wait for that to occur one day so we can get our answer once and for all, since no one here has supplied anything but an opinion.

In law....."possession is nine tenths of the law". Once it's in my hands by no act of my own, thereby completely eliminated any "intent" on my part of possessing it, it's a public relations play. You want to take it from me?......get ready for the grief it will cause. Add to that the danger involved with a bat coming at you like Tommy Lasorda coaching third base......

Cold dead hands, baby.

wake me up with you guys prove me wrong.....

[TFig27]

Here's how to keep a bat:

1) Catch bat

2) Stick bat in your pants

3) Smile and say "come and get it"

[suicide_squeeze]

Here's how to keep a bat:

1) Catch bat

2) Stick bat in your pants

3) Smile and say "come and get it"

THAT'S what I'm talkin' about!!!! That's the American way of doing things!!!

[mattmueller]

Squeeze:

The facts have clearly been articulated as to why taking a bat is theft.

Save for your expressing your opinion as to added risk spectators take entering a ballgame (which is disclaimed on the back of every ticket and legally irrelevant to property rights), ineptness of a hitter to hold the bat (irrelevant to property rights), the player's salary (irrelevant to property rights), or what is the best public relations move for the player or team (also irrelevant to property rights), you have not provided any evidence to support your illogical claim that title to a bat changes just because it crosses some imaginary line and ends up in the stands.

As indicated in the Bonds ball legal briefs and arguments (which I will assume either you have not read or read and did not comprehend), the only way that title to the property could change is if it is determined that the owner has abandonded that property. To reasonable people, since there is no consistent history of teams or players abandoning bats that enter the stands, and the transfer of the property once it moves to the stands is not codified anywhere (signage, tickets, announcements), when they ask for it back, they are enforcing their rights to the property.

So what does all that mean? If they ask for it bat, they are asking you for their property back. If you determine that you are going to keep the bat, you are stealing it.

[mattmueller]

Sorry, above you should be addressed to Squeeze and other like minded persons. Didn't mean to single anybody out.

[suicide_squeeze]

Squeeze:

The facts have clearly been articulated as to why taking a bat is theft.

Save for your expressing your opinion as to added risk spectators take entering a ballgame (which is disclaimed on the back of every ticket and legally irrelevant to property rights), ineptness of a hitter to hold the bat (irrelevant to property rights), the player's salary (irrelevant to property rights), or what is the best public relations move for the player or team (also irrelevant to property rights), you have not provided any evidence to support your illogical claim that title to a bat changes just because it crosses some imaginary line and ends up in the stands.

As indicated in the Bonds ball legal briefs and arguments (which I will assume either you have not read or read and did not comprehend), the only way that title to the property could change is if it is determined that the owner has abandonded that property. To reasonable people, since there is no consistent history of teams or players abandoning bats that enter the stands, and the transfer of the property once it moves to the stands is not codified anywhere (signage, tickets, announcements), when they ask for it back, they are enforcing their rights to the property.

So what does all that mean? If they ask for it bat, they are asking you for their property back. If you determine that you are going to keep the bat, you are stealing it.

Matt,

What's up? Can't you ever back off and be man about it when you're wrong? I do.

The reference you are talking about in regards to the "Bonds ball" is completely out of context, like ever other aspect of your argument. We are not talking about an argument between two fans, and ownership rights of the ball they both claim to have. Why not get off your soapbox long enough to understand the facts of what you're arguing about before you try to instill your virtues onto someone else while referencing something with no connection.

We are talking about a haphazzard piece of baseball equipment flying into the stands.

My argument is that is it customary that a ball hit into the stands, or a bat that flies into the stands is fair game to keep. I have asked that someone present some evidence in ANY form to prove my opinion wrong. No one has. That's all......

If it were a glove, or a catcher's shin guard or chest protector.....yeah, I would say that is an essential piece to continuing the game and therefore should be given back.

A baseball? A bat?

NOTE TO MLB AND YOUR PLAYERS: IF YOU CAN'T HANG ONTO YOUR BAT AND YOU FLAIL IT INTO THE SEATS......KISS IT GOODBYE LIKE YOUR HOME RUN BALLS, AND MOVE ON! LOVE, THE FANS.

[NYCrulesU]

Matt, you're wasting your breath lol Squeeze is clearly right (because he says so). To hell with decades of teams getting bats back from fans, via an usher and/or team rep. His greed and lust for a piece of game used memorabilia is so overwhelming that he'll ignore all laws of common sense and ballpark etiquette.

[suicide_squeeze]

Matt, you're wasting your breath lol Squeeze is clearly right (because he says so). To hell with decades of teams getting bats back from fans, via an usher and/or team rep. His greed and lust for a piece of game used memorabilia is so overwhelming that he'll ignore all laws of common sense and ballpark etiquette.

Actually, I feel like I am one who is wasting mine.

If you guys want to stop all the hostility long enough to remember we are all here to enjoy our hobby, and to share our knowledge with eachother to make that experience better, then maybe we can get something accomplished here.

NYCdrulesonU.....my greed and lust for game used items is satisfied by pulling out my check book and paying for them after working hard to earn the funds in the first place, not for some other silly non-fact you choose to throw out in anger because you disagree.

We are referring to a rare happenstance in the event one of us was lucky enough to be at the end of the flailing "rainbow" (um...."bat", eisenreich.....is what I was eluding to). Ballpark ettiquette? That a whole different story......which I looked into, made a call, and received some answers on. Maybe you could take a moment to read the answers I received, and learn something from it instead of picking "sides" and coming in like a hand grenade.

We're here to share knowledge and experiences we've had in the game used hobby. Agreement, or disagreement, on an issue is a healthy thing. A good debate is educational for everyone who takes the time to read it.

But to state I am going against "laws of common sense" are laughable. I wrote the book on common sense partner. If you want to go down that road, expect to be changing tires often.

All I did was ask for some proof that I was wrong in my opinion on a theory of a bat going into the crowd, and what one can rightfully do in the event they are confronted with that circumstance. What i received was statements that were incorrect in fact, that eventually grew into an angry confrontation. All that will lead to is "Last edited...." exerpts, so why bother?

Bring us some intelligent banter. Add to everyone's intellect.....not their emotional dark side.

Peace fellow forum members, let's keep it friendly.

[suicide_squeeze]

OK.....here's some interesting info....


I called Dodger Stadium, asked a front office person with clubhouse knowledge, the question: "What is the policy of the Stadium, management, MLB, etc., if a player at bat loses his grip of his bat and it flies into the stands and a fan gets ahold of it, does the fan have to give it back, or is it a souvenir?"

Answer: "Only if the player demands it back. It is his property, as the players buy their own bats. The Dodgers have no rule that the bat be given up, and may be kept as a souvenir if the player does not request it back."

I took it one step further, and asked what would happen to the fan if he refused to hand it over if the player wanted it back.

Answer: "He would most likely be offered another item in exchange for it by the player. This is usually what happens if the player wants it back."

I asked further...."What if he still refused? Is he breaking any laws?"

Answer: "The player would probably let them keep it, but there is a chance they may be escorted out of the park."

I ended by asking....."Could the fan be permanently banned by Dodger management for not returning the bat?"

Answer: "No, not for something like that. There is nothing they instigated to deserve bannishment from the park. To be honest, in most cases where a bat flies into the crowd, the player is just happy if no one was hurt. If the fan returns the bat with no hesitation, the player usually will send something to them like a signed ball or another bat. Other times, they may be so relieved that they just let the fan keep it. I remember one time, years ago, a case where someone was hurt. After they were taken to receive medical attention, the player let them keep the bat and signed it with a personal note of apology to the fan.

He couldn't recall the player, or what year it was. Too bad, I'd love to see that bat!

Then I called Angel Stadium.....asked the same fiorst question.....

ANSWER: If a bat flies into the stands and a fan ends up with it, it's a souvenir. The fans are immediately escorted to GUEST SERVICES where the bat is recorded and held in safe keeping for that fan until the game is over. Then they may retrieve their souvenir at that time before leaving the park. The reason that policy is in place is because there are no bats allowed in the stands during the game.


So, mattmueller, your turn. Let's hear some facts about your "theft" theory, please?


Like I said, "Possession is nine tenth's of the law". If one is lucky enough to catch a bat hurling into the seats as a fan at a game, it is apparently up to the player to allow the fan to keep it. But it sure seems like, as I have eluded to from the beginning, if you are astute enough to say "It's MINE!", you have about a 99% chance of keeping it. Don't let those meannies in Boston, the one's wearing the "SECURITY" shirts in Boston who have apparently scared the manhood out of eisenreich take the players bat from you. Because let's face the facts, forum members, the player, if confronted with "NO, it's MINE" is not going to have you manhadled and the bat pried from your grip. Thay would never live it down. And for a $60.00 bat, they'd have to be crazy to even think it.

[Vintagedeputy]

God I love this forum....