First fake autograph

[64SHEA]

I paid with paypal and it came from overseas so I have 180 days to file a dispute. The seller also mailed it directly to the authenticator and they just received it a couple of days ago.

While it may just be "one mans opinion" he is a higly respected authenticator in this field and the sellers claim itself without evadince is just one mans opinion. Why should I be happy if I just get a refund, I paid for an item advertized as authentic.

I understand that many people on here may know and trust each other or have great knowledge in there area of collecting but I didn't realize there was such a (as it seems) disdain for 3rd party authenticators on this forum.

[EricTheRed44]

I have very few items that are autographed (Id rather have a photo taken with someone than something written on a piece of paper or item), but if I sold you something with an auto that turned out to be fake, when I got it from someone else, I'd give you a refund but that would be all. If you asked for $ for other things you had done, I would tell you to take a hike. Or track down the original owner... etc. If the person you're dealing with has hundreds or thousands of auto's and its a scam, then by all means go for it and sue. If its just a collector who possibly purchased a fake auto himself by chance, then I'd chalk it up as a bad experience and move on. I wouldnt see why it should cost him anymore cash than a refund.

If I purchased an auto and it was fake, I would take responsibility myself for being fooled and move on... especially if the seller gave me refund for the item in question.

Its the risk you take when collecting.

[RMoody]

I wouldn't say it's distain, it's track record and a long list of errors. They equally have zero accountability, lets say your seller responded to your email with "Here is a photo of him signing the item, I forgot to include it for privacy reasons." You think they will now refund you the money and certify your item, would you want them too?

Bear in mind , not every "authentication" company has to employ a person with a background in handwriting. Even when they do, such as Chris Morales , mistakes can still get made.

Pretty sure we have all seen PSA authenticated items from James Spence, that JSA later declined as non authentic.

Take a good look at what happened with GAI early on, they basically certified anything just to increase market place visibility.

Hopefuly what you should be taking from this is a 3rd party's opinion isn't worth as much as you may think. It makes no difference to me when buying, and I put down around 900-1k down a month in collecting. Truth be told, I've not bid on stuff with GAI Certs before.

If I had the time and money I would sit down with my buddy, record him signing things and then send them in awaiting them to come back "likely not genuine". Then record him opening the results and seeing somebody else tell him what he didn't sign.

[64SHEA]

The way you describe them is the definition of disdain.
If the seller had a photo of the poster being signed this whole thing would be moot. It seems like you think no one out there is selling fakes or trying to be deceptive. If you can authenticate every thing you buy your self that's great but I cant, I guess your just a better collector then I.

I started out simply asking a question of people who may have been in a situation I haven't but maybe of my own fault the subject seems to have shifted.
Never mind.
Take care

[RMoody]

Well that's not what I said at all, but ok.

I gave you my, as did others, personal experience based on the situation.

If you want my direct answer, your lucky to get a refund especially if your looking to utilize a 180 day window on a refund.

At the end of the day, you bought what he sold and you got what you expected. Thats the end of the transaction.

You opted to go involve a 3rd party and then allowed that opinion to change your mind about what you purchased to the point you don't want it. Your out that money, because you made that decision.

If the seller had a track record of fraud, if he shipped you something other than pictured its another story.

Personally I wouldn't refund your money.

[Griffey24fan]

Why don't you post the autograph in question for some on the board to give you an educated opinion. PSA fails real autographs all the time.

[64SHEA]

Why don't you post the autograph in question for some on the board to give you an educated opinion. PSA fails real autographs all the time.

Like I said the poster is signed by astronauts and lesser known ones at that. It was not sent to PSA it was sent to a highly respected authenticator in the space field.

[earlywynnfan]

The way you describe them is the definition of disdain.
If the seller had a photo of the poster being signed this whole thing would be moot. It seems like you think no one out there is selling fakes or trying to be deceptive. If you can authenticate every thing you buy your self that's great but I cant, I guess your just a better collector then I.

I started out simply asking a question of people who may have been in a situation I haven't but maybe of my own fault the subject seems to have shifted.
Never mind.
Take care

Are you saying this seller is "selling fakes or trying to be deceptive," or did he sell you something he believes in?

Either way, the choice to get it authenticated was yours. Over the last six summers of heavy selling, I've had two items fail a major authenticator. I refunded the money immediately, but did not refund the authentication fees. (Nor was I asked to, nor was I expected to.)

I understand being frustrated, but as I read over your posts, it seems to me you had strong feelings one way, and seem to be disappointed that the group doesn't agree.

Ken

[RMoody]

Are you saying this seller is "selling fakes or trying to be deceptive," or did he sell you something he believes in?

Either way, the choice to get it authenticated was yours. Over the last six summers of heavy selling, I've had two items fail a major authenticator. I refunded the money immediately, but did not refund the authentication fees. (Nor was I asked to, nor was I expected to.)

I understand being frustrated, but as I read over your posts, it seems to me you had strong feelings one way, and seem to be disappointed that the group doesn't agree.

Ken

I actually meant to bring this us, the fake the title of this thread is "first fake autograph" really can't overstate the thought process here.

I agree with Griffey24fan, let see the item in question. Also, lets see the response of the person who is being accused of selling fake signatures.

[64SHEA]

Are you saying this seller is "selling fakes or trying to be deceptive," or did he sell you something he believes in?

I am not saying that but I have never dealt with this guy before.

I understand being frustrated, but as I read over your posts, it seems to me you had strong feelings one way, and seem to be disappointed that the group doesn't agree.

Ken

Again not at all, in fact if you read my posts I kept trying to steer the topic back to my original question in which I stated I have never had an auto come back as not authentic (seller or buyer) and just wanted to know if it was them norm to ask the seller to pay the authentication fee, that's it. If you read the responses up till RMoody's post they were answering that question. Any fustrtion came from RMoody who almost seems upset that I cant authenticate the item myself and I dared to send it to an authenticator. I had no idea it would turn into this or I wouldn't have even asked.