Rafael Palmeiro: Was he treated fairly?

[metsbats]

I wanted to find out your thoughts on Rafael Palmeiro.

Yes he was tested positive for steriods but he at least vehemently denied it unlike McGwire. I find it interesting that he was not able to get any interest and get a second chance by any teams since his suspension in 2005. In Jan 2007 the Boston Globe had an article about Palmeiro's desire to make a comeback but obviously there were not takers. I 'm surpised the Yankees with Giambi and their history of giving players a second chance didn't bite.

It may be too late for Palmeiro now but did he deserve a second chance and was he treated fairly?

I don't think he was if you compare him to Giambi, Bonds. And what will happen to Giambi since he respoke about this steriod use and may have confessed? Another suspension and back to Yankee Stadium after?

What are your thoughts?

-David

[MooseDog]

Palmeiro flat out lied about taking steroids and got caught and still denied it.
Palmeiro clearly extended his career with the stuff as without it apparently he couldn't hit any more.

No team in the league needs a slugger who can no longer slug.

At least Giambi has been man enough to admit he's cheated (and still does, apparently).

Until Bud Selig removes his head from his you-know-where they won't clean up the game.

[staindsox]

Palmeiro broke the cardinal rule: he named a name, he pointed at Tejada. That's why. When you 're in that inner circle, you're in...and when you're out, you're out. If he had shut up and taken the suspension, he would still be in baseball. Giambi can blather on all he wants, but until he names some names, it's all hot air. He's smart enough not to do this because it would end his career. Once you rat out another player, you're done. Like it or not, that's why Palmeiro will never have anything to do with baseball again.

[richpick]

For me I am getting a little tired of all the steroid talk. I believe that a large number of players did take steroids and that it has helped them and has gave them a clear advantage versus players of yesteryear. I wish that baseball would give amnesty to any player who comes forward and admits that they have taken steroids. Then all players as a whole who have can come forward admit their wrongdoings and we can move on with the great game of baseball. Lets admit it collecting game used items has also evolved into big business. In the 1970's how many uniforms did a player go through in a season? It seems today players are going through the same amount of jerseys in one game as back in the entire season in the past. I wish there were never steroids and we could compare todays players to those of the past but clearly we will never be able to do that so we must correct the problems and move on.

[B1SON]

For me I am getting a little tired of all the steroid talk. I believe that a large number of players did take steroids and that it has helped them and has gave them a clear advantage versus players of yesteryear. I wish that baseball would give amnesty to any player who comes forward and admits that they have taken steroids. Then all players as a whole who have can come forward admit their wrongdoings and we can move on with the great game of baseball. Lets admit it collecting game used items has also evolved into big business. In the 1970's how many uniforms did a player go through in a season? It seems today players are going through the same amount of jerseys in one game as back in the entire season in the past. I wish there were never steroids and we could compare todays players to those of the past but clearly we will never be able to do that so we must correct the problems and move on.

Great analogy. I agree 100%.

[David]

"Yes he was tested positive for steroids but he at least vehemently denied it"

That's the silliest statement I've heard in a while. That's like saying "Yes he robbed a bank but at least he used a stolen gun." Two wrongs don't make a right, as the saying goes.

I believe in forgiveness, but the offender must first admit to an error and ask for forgiveness. For one to accept an apology, there must be an apology to accept. Palmeiro has neither admitted using steroids nor apologized. Two years ago or so, he said said he's explain the steroid test to the public, and he hasn't said a word since.

[staindsox]

I saw the MSN article too. I think amnesty is naive.

1) If a person came forward, it assumes they are no longer taking anything. That's a big assumption.

Baseball is only testing ancient steroids, not the designer drugs using by big dollar players. Yes, it also doesn't test HGH, which is an even bigger problem than steroids.

2) It also assumes that the players want to stop taking drugs.

Players are still using as much as ever. There is too much money in it. You can hit another 20 homers a year by using...that translates into a big paycheck. Why would they stop a paycheck?

We're assuming baseball's intentionally substandard testing is doing the job, which it isn't. And, if anyone ever did admit it, they would basically be removing any claim to legitimacy on records they achieved. Yes, baseball can forgive them, but the fans will know that that record, or that bottom on the 9th game winning homer was a cheat. Why would they risk tainting their legacy? This could also affect their marketability. Staying quiet is more economically viable than amnesty.

I think the thought of amnesty is idealistic and naive. It overlooks some big factors.

Chris

[metsbats]

"Yes he was tested positive for steroids but he at least vehemently denied it"

That's the silliest statement I've heard in a while. That's like saying "Yes he robbed a bank but at least he used a stolen gun." Two wrongs don't make a right, as the saying goes.

I believe in forgiveness, but the offender must first admit to an error and ask for forgiveness. For one to accept an apology, there must be an apology to accept. Palmeiro has neither admitted using steroids nor apologized. Two years ago or so, he said said he's explain the steroid test to the public, and he hasn't said a word since.

Palmeiro was under oath and vehemently denied that he ever took steriods. McGwire was under oath and invoke his fifth amendment rights was to most of us was an admission of guilt.

That's a fact.

Either Palmeiro really inadvertenty put steriods into his body like he claimed (blaming Tejada was his explanation) or he 's really dumb lying in court.

Palmeiro is not admitting or apologizing because he is still taking the stance that it's not his fault and it was that someone else who gave him the steriods and he didn 't know it was steriods. (sounds familiar).

Giambi on the other hand tested positive and still never admitted (up until last week that is) but at least apologized.

So judging from the opinions so far, Palmero was never allowed to play baseball after his suspension was up because 1) he was blacklisted by breaking the code of silence about what goes on in the clubhouse 2) never apologized for being in his situation regardless of it being intentional or unintentional.

Thanks All.
David

[3arod13]

I wanted to find out your thoughts on Rafael Palmeiro.

Yes he was tested positive for steriods but he at least vehemently denied it unlike McGwire. I find it interesting that he was not able to get any interest and get a second chance by any teams since his suspension in 2005. In Jan 2007 the Boston Globe had an article about Palmeiro's desire to make a comeback but obviously there were not takers. I 'm surpised the Yankees with Giambi and their history of giving players a second chance didn't bite.

It may be too late for Palmeiro now but did he deserve a second chance and was he treated fairly?

I don't think he was if you compare him to Giambi, Bonds. And what will happen to Giambi since he respoke about this steriod use and may have confessed? Another suspension and back to Yankee Stadium after?

What are your thoughts?

-David

Palmeiro got exactly what he deserved! Straight up lying to congress and then calling out another player to cover his butt. That's why he's not playing today!

I'm sick of all this steroid talk also and wish it would end.

[sportscentury]

Hi David,

What do you think the likelihood is that Palmeiro's story is true? I estimate the likelihood to be 0% chance. He is a liar, cheater, and rat. I had one of the finest (if not the finest) Palmeiro gamers in the hobby (from MeiGray) and when I heard the news that he tested positive, I couldn't wait to dump it. Then, I heard his explanation of his positive test ... wow. Raffy, it's time to man up.

As for McGwire, do I think he used steroids? Yes. Did my interest in him go down significantly after I heard his testimony? Yes. However, he did not compound things by lying under oath; nor did he rat out his peers, a la Palmeiro (Tejada), Sheffield (Bonds), and Canseco (everyone under the sun).

Mac garnered only 23.5% of the writers' votes for the Hall of Fame this year. It may be a pretty tough road for him. I wouldn't be surprised if Raffy doesn't break double digits his first year on the ballot. (As a complete aside, why are the writers torturing Jim Rice?).

Best,
Reid