2 Elway White 94 Throwbacks- What are the odds?

[EndzoneSports]

As we have recently received a number of contacts regarding the 1994 Elway “Thowback” jerseys, I thought it would be best to recap the entire history here.

• In Nov 1998, Endzone Sports Charities (ESC) procures a size 48 white, road 1994 “Thowback” jersey authenticated by Grey Flannel (LOA # R.V. 324E, 2/9/1998), presumed to be the authentic jersey worn by QB John Elway on Sep 26. ‘94 at Buffalo—the only game where this style of jersey was worn by the Broncos. ESC jersey subsequently sold in good faith, as we had since procured another sample for our collection.
• An October 2000 article in the Denver Rocky Mountain News highlighted several pieces of Broncos memorabilia that were a part of the HOF's collection. One of the items noted was, "John Elway's complete Throwback uniform from the 1994 season." On Aug 27, 2001 Jason Aikens of the Pro Football Hall of Fame, confirmed via e-mail that, “Our Elway throwbacks jersey is white and size 44”, thus initially raising speculation.
• ESC contacted Grey Flannel (GF) on 4/28/01 when they offered a 2nd jersey of the same style (in size 44) as Lot #1130 in their 2001 Spring Training auction. The auction closed at $9,300 (including 15% buy. prem.).
• Subsequently, in June ’01, we were contacted by another collector who had yet a 3rd Grey Flannel jersey, this one a size 46 (LOA # M.N. 949B, 7/10/1995). On 9/3/01, Andy Imperato of GF was advised of the apparent existence of 4 jerseys—three authenticated/sold by GF, and one at the Pro Football Hall of Fame
• In Aug 2002, American Memorabilia (AMI) offers one of this style jersey (size 48, unautographed, described as showing, “light QB wear” by authenticator Lou Lampson). The auction closes on 9/2/02, selling at $4,637, including 15% buy. prem.
• In Oct 2004, AMI offers the 2nd Elway jersey of this style (size 48, autographed/pers (To Tom) in black, described as showing, “Awesome quarterback wear--check out the armpits in particular. There's heavy pilling…” by authenticator Lou Lampson dba 100% Authentic). The auction closed on 4/7/05, selling at $6,335, including 15% buy. prem. (See http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=10169). Contacting after the appearance of their 2nd jersey of this style was offered, AMI rep stated that, “we have to go by our authenticator’s opinion”.
• In May 2005, ESC posts an article at its web site entitled, “Unique” Elway Jerseys Abound (see http://endzone.pscoggin.com/newsarch.htm) speculating that “…at least some of these jerseys may have originated from a lot that was created though a business partnership. In 1995 a Denver-area memorabilia dealer was contacted about purchasing the remaining stock of unused Wilson Throwback jersey blanks. The dealer acquired these jersey blanks—the same exact blanks as those provided to the team—and had the entire lot made up as Elway jerseys with appropriate numbers and nameplates. The dealer entered into an agreement with John Elway whereas, in exchange for his autograph on a number of the jerseys, which the dealer would retain for sale, John would be given a quantity in payment for his services, to do with as he wished. It is suspected that these likely were given away as gifts, donated for charitable functions and the like, with no way of telling exactly how many of these may now be circulating accompanied by "game worn" credentials.”
• In Sep 2005, offers the 3rd Elway jersey of this style (size 48, autographed in silver, described as a, “lightly-used garment” by authenticator Lou Lampson dba 100% Authentic). The auction closed on 10/21/04, selling at $2,221, including 15% buy. Prem. (See http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=13525).
• It would appear that this same jersey was consigned for AMI’s auction ending 4/26/07 (see lot # 30 at http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=35956) and is described by authenticator Lou Lampson dba 100% Authentic, as exhibiting “Light quarterback wear, as would be expected from a style used for only a few games” (sic)
• Also, in March 2007, Vintage Authentics offered a similarly styled jersey, this time in a size 46 and also authenticated by Lampson (see http://pics1.edeal.com/images/p2/wl/vintageauth/docs/elway94gujerslou6-50001.jpg) who described the evidence of use for this jersey as “light apropos single game” (See http://vintageauthentics.at.truition... unbr=81766075)

Regards,

[CollectGU]

FYI, I contacted AMI and offered them all the information posted, and theyhave agreed to pull this item from the current auction.

Regards,
Dave

[Eric]

Dave

Thanks for following up on this and for giving us the info. What is more baffling is how mr lampson can keep writing letters on these jerseys if they were only used in 1 game.

I wonder what will happen to the one in vintage authentics...

[EndzoneSports]

Steve J @ VA was also contacted via e-mail and he responded that he was "going to see Lou later today and will be discussing this with him." We'll see what transpires.

Regards,

[lund6771]

VA, AMI and others that use Lampson must be in this business for the short term...any business that has a good plan would cut off ties with a supplier/vendor immediately if they consistantly screwed up...they must have many upset customers and upset customers are not repeat customers...I know that I'm not and I'm sure there is many more of you out there that feel the same...unfortunately, even though I hate to admit it, if something really sweet came along I'd probably go after it

everyone makes mistakes once in a while but this is a joke...the auction houses know exactly what's going on...they must have some great connections because 95% of their auctions contain the same garbage as the last one...and their next auction will continue the trend and so on...

by running an honest & ethical business is what will keep you around...I've seen MANY dealers come and go...at first, a lot of them ran a great gig, but unfortunately greed took over...I think that's the problem with today's auctions...GREED!!!!!...I believe that Meigray, without any comparison, runs the best customer-oriented business that I have seen in my 19 years of experience...100% guarentees, they take the time to fully inspect a product, and genuinly strive to make absolute, 100% sure, that they are selling an authentic product...

I believe that this site will be around for a long time, and we'll still be dealing with Meigray....but through historical trends, my money says that most of these auction houses, along with Lampson, won't be around in 5 years

[kingjammy24]

"Steve J @ VA was also contacted via e-mail and he responded that he was "going to see Lou later today and will be discussing this with him." We'll see what transpires."

the elway is still up on VA. bidding is up to $1104. so i guess that's their answer?

both auction houses have lampson authenticate the same jersey and yet one decides to pull it and the other doesn't. it's a little confusing.

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

"Steve J @ VA was also contacted via e-mail and he responded that he was "going to see Lou later today and will be discussing this with him."

actually, i'd like to see how that conversation went.

steve - "lou, there's a bit of a problem with this elway. it was only worn for 1 game and yet you've authenticated four of these. in fact, you authenticated one for AMI and then turned around and authenticated one for us in the same month!"

lou - "trust me victor, you've got THE ONE"

steve - "it's not victor. it's steve. from vintage authentics?"

lou - "vintage what? oh yeah, what's what i meant. steve. you've got it buddy"

steve - "well ok. but lou, the football hall of fame says they have the one"

lou - "football hall of fame?! what the hell do they know? do they have 8000 photos?"

steve - "well....probably. they.."

lou - "have they authenticated for the smithsonian? i'm LOU LAMPSON! do you hear me jensen? LAMPSON!!! the football hall of fame has nothing on me! say it with me steve, LAMPSON!!"

steve - "LAMPSON!!"

lou - "ok good. now don't bother me with these elways any more. pass me some of those 1989 bo jackson home jerseys. geezus i've done so many of these. who's this for again? vintage flannel?".

rudy.

[ChrisCavalier]

the elway is still up on VA. bidding is up to $1104. so i guess that's their answer?

both auction houses have lampson authenticate the same jersey and yet one decides to pull it and the other doesn't. it's a little confusing.

rudy.

Hello Everyone,

I'm trying to get caught up on things after having minor surgery last week and I have to say I find this thread fascinating. First of all, to Patrick and everyone who participated on this thread, I really have to say I think you guys have done a tremendous job explaining this situation.

I also have one question. Is it possible that Elway wore more than one jersey in the September 1994 game? Absent that possibility, I'm really trying to figure out how in the world this jersey is still being auctioned after a review of the information that has been presented here. If Elway did wear only one jersey in that game, why has this jersey not been pulled?

Has there not been enough evidence presented here to show a mistake was likely made when authenticating the jersey? Or, is there not at least enough information to show there are significant questions that need to be answered before a collector spends thousands of dollars on this jersey (the bidding is currently at about $1,700 with the premium with about a week left in the auction)?

Thanks in advance for any additional information that I might be missing.

Sincerely,
Chris

[EndzoneSports]

Don't get me wrong, I am certainly not defending the track record of Mr. Lampson. I have been just as critical of mistakes made by Lou, Bernie Gernay, Grey Flannel, etc.--in fact our position is one of being critical of the hobby's reliance upon 3rd-party authentication as a whole.

Our point was simply stating the deficiencies of the process as a whole. Though imperfect, this is a situation where one (in this case the GUU collecting community) must be careful for what they ask for, lest their request be answered. In the early to mid-90s, when our specific genre of collecting really took off, the rapid increase in demand led to an escalation of prices. With the increase in the amount of money involved came the temptation for the less scrupulous to engage in fraud and deceit. In order to combat those who would perpetrate less than forthright dealings, the concept of 3rd-party authentication arose. Unless, as a collecting community, we can find a way to remove the possibility for fraud/deceit in the items that we covet, the need/demand for 3rd-party authentication will remain.

In an arena of such uncertainty, newer, less experienced collectors--who lack the experience/resources to formulate their own educated opinions--must continue to rely upon the opinions of others as they make their purchasing decisions. Likewise, even amongst more experienced veteran collectors, there remains a segment that seems to sleep better at night, knowing that someone else's opinion agrees with their own before laying out what can be the cash equivalent of a quality used car for "someone else’s dirty shirt" (as my wife puts it).

In the face of continued uncertainty, I offer collectors a bit of advice... No item, unless personally removed from the back of the athlete following a sporting event, can be attributed as such with absolute certainty. As we all know, only a miniscule percentage of game worn/used items make it directly into the hands of collectors in this fashion. As such, some amount of faith in the process is required--faith in the nature of the displayed physical characteristics, faith in the provenance, faith in the opinion of an authenticator, faith in the reputation of the seller. At face value, each of these elements should be viewed with a healthy dose of skepticism, and reconciled to a point of a "comfort level" for each individual purchaser. Where some whom might rely more heavily upon authentication would state that they "would not touch something authenticated by Lampson with a ten foot pole", others would likely just approach such an item as if it had not been authenticated at all, preferring to pass their own judgment on the items' other merits.

How individual collectors/purchasers come to such reconciliation is really a personal matter. I was fortunate enough to have come into this hobby at a time when the items at hand were not the high-dollar commodity that they’ve become today. At the time when I was still an inexperienced newcomer to the hobby, a relative degree of certainty regarding an item’s authenticity was inherent simply by its’ purchase from one of the two or three legitimate dealers who dealt in such obscure collectibles. Fast forward to today, where I feel that my level of knowledge has elevated to a point of being able to almost completely disregard a seller’s unverifiable claims of provenance and/or an authenticator’s opinion, replacing them with my own opinion.

In deference to those collectors caught in between (neither a newcomer nor an expert be), I would again contend that the collective knowledge of the members of this forum is one of the best available resources when uncertainty arises. The fact is that Lou Lampson/MEARS/Grey Flannel/Bernie Gernay/ad infinitum will continue to make mistakes. While some will make fewer than others and some will be better about how those mistakes are rectified, these will still occur. Accepting this, I stand by my assertion that we owe it to the collecting community to share our knowledge and insight.

As a side-bar… In addition to our duty to share information that may be helpful to other collectors, comes the need to share that information responsibly. In my nearly two decades in this hobby’s pursuit, one absolute that I have established is that nearly nothing is sacred. Fonts vary, tagging inconsistencies exist, color variations occur. In offering advice to others, we need to be cautious in the application of absolutes—“always” and “never” are indeed true rarities in this hobby and should be seldom used. About the only absolute in this hobby is that nothing is absolute. Caution should be exercised when pointing out such inconsistencies. Not that such inconsistencies and shouldn't be pointed out as they often discredit an item, however, at times, the existence of these does not necessarily make an item bad/wrong. Often, irresponsible inferences to such "bad/wrong" items can be damaging to otherwise legitimate items.

Regards,

[CollectGU]

VA, AMI and others that use Lampson must be in this business for the short term...any business that has a good plan would cut off ties with a supplier/vendor immediately if they consistantly screwed up...they must have many upset customers and upset customers are not repeat customers...I know that I'm not and I'm sure there is many more of you out there that feel the same...unfortunately, even though I hate to admit it, if something really sweet came along I'd probably go after it

everyone makes mistakes once in a while but this is a joke...the auction houses know exactly what's going on...they must have some great connections because 95% of their auctions contain the same garbage as the last one...and their next auction will continue the trend and so on...

by running an honest & ethical business is what will keep you around...I've seen MANY dealers come and go...at first, a lot of them ran a great gig, but unfortunately greed took over...I think that's the problem with today's auctions...GREED!!!!!...I believe that Meigray, without any comparison, runs the best customer-oriented business that I have seen in my 19 years of experience...100% guarentees, they take the time to fully inspect a product, and genuinly strive to make absolute, 100% sure, that they are selling an authentic product...

I believe that this site will be around for a long time, and we'll still be dealing with Meigray....but through historical trends, my money says that most of these auction houses, along with Lampson, won't be around in 5 years

To be fair to the auction houses, we are looking at and complaining about 5- 10 jerseys, often the other 300 don't seem to have problems, and in fact there are some really nice items often offered. No excuse for the 5 -10 wrong, but if auction houses like AMI at least pull them when notified with a problem it means that things are changing for the better in the hobby.

Regards,
Dave