2 Elway White 94 Throwbacks- What are the odds?

[G1X]

Just my humble opinion, but I agree 100% with Patrick's last paragraph. From my view of the hobby as both a collector and dealer, I think that it is perhaps the truest thing anyone has ever written in this Forum about the subject.

I see it and hear it nearly every day, especially from the dealer side of the fence. I could tell many an amazing tale on the subject, but there is not enough time or space.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

[trsent]

great post again Pat....I'm gonna dissagree with you that "we" created this mess...my opinion is that where there are dollar signs, scumbags follow....the crooks created the mess, so the authentication business evolved...Lampson has been discussed so many times here, and I'm not gonna beat a dead horse..but if you look at the whole hobby from an outside perspective, Lampson is a terrible cancer to this hobby as an authentcator.....when a guy authentiactes a ton of Elways and Favres that were only worn for one game, it shows that he has no business being in the authenticating business......HE NEEDS TO BE SHUT DOWN!!!!!!!

How do you "SHUT DOWN" a man? Sounds pretty harsh.

[lund6771]

when I say shut down...I mean his authentication business...this would be a slap on the wrist...many would consider what he is doing fraud...there are so many "newbies" that have gotten into collecting and they solely rely on his letter...

sure we sit here and talk about doing our own homework...but why do we say this?...cuz we've all been burned and still see it continuosly happening every day on e-bay and auctions...most of us have on this site have been around the block, but how is the newbie protected?...by a guy who has authenticated handfulls of Elways and Favres that were only worn for one game?

[trsent]

when I say shut down...I mean his authentication business...this would be a slap on the wrist...many would consider what he is doing fraud...there are so many "newbies" that have gotten into collecting and they solely rely on his letter...

sure we sit here and talk about doing our own homework...but why do we say this?...cuz we've all been burned and still see it continuously happening every day on e-bay and auctions...most of us have on this site have been around the block, but how is the newbie protected?...by a guy who has authenticated handfulls of Elways and Favres that were only worn for one game?

I understand, but the issue is no one has ever come on this forum and shown that Lou Lampson, the authenticator you said should be shut down, has intentionally committed fraud. I do not personally like his methods, I do not like the fact that letters are written and no contact information is listed to stand behind them and I do not like a lot of examples of his work, but no one has ever shown proof that he has intentionally authenticated an item as genuine to commit fraud.

I have spoke to his associates and friends over the years, and they feel he is an honest man who may work too quickly and make mistakes. It is not how I would run my business, not how other respected authenticators run their business, but it is how he runs his business.

[mvandor]

I believe the correct legal term is "gross negligence".

[lund6771]

I have spoke to his associates and friends over the years, and they feel he is an honest man who may work too quickly and make mistakes. It is not how I would run my business, not how other respected authenticators run their business, but it is how he runs his business.

If I was a new to collecting and saw how Lampson is glorified in ebay descriptions and all that Smithsonian mumbo jumbo...I'd be awefully impressed with his resume...

THen let's say I would want a Lebron James game used jersey and did a google search...Of course Vintage Authentics would probably pop up because it seems like they sell 400 of them a year...Sweet!!!! It comes with a Lampson letter!!!...So I bought it for $1,200.00!!!!...Seems like a great deal for such a Superstar!!!...(Isn't that about what the last 400 they've sold went for?)...Now I'm on Vintages list and their next auction comes around and heres 3 more...Next auction theres a few more...Hmmm, red flags start going up...start doing some more searching on the internet about Lampson and come up to this site...

OH SHIT!!!!!...I JUST GOT BURNED!!!!!!!

I don't think that this story is any sort of a stretch...how would you feel about Lampson?...Would you give a shit that he's a nice guy and that he works to quickly and makes mistakes?

Hell no!!!...he just cost me $1,200!!!!!

you've just learned gotten your first taste of the current state of the game used memorabilia market...where you have to do all the reasearch yourself and Lampson is worthless..so it was a $1,200.00 lesson that should have NEVER occurred in the first place

[lund6771]

or in a nut-shell

would you care how nice Lampson is if you bought an Elway or Favre throwback and came across this thread?

[G1X]

I think that most who have been in the sports memorabilia hobby for any length of time understand that there are problems with the hobby - just as there are in any other hobby and in life in general. I have been collecting game-used uniforms since 1974, and I can state that the evils in the hobby are really no different than it was back then other than it is a different set of characters and some of the methods have changed.

A few Forum members post endlessly in this Forum expressing a lot of passion on the ills in our hobby. If I may ask, what are any of you who express these concerns doing to rectify the situation? Posting in this Forum is fine, but as stated in my opening sentence, I would think that most of the folks in this Forum are aware of most of the hobby's problems.

The bottom line is this - whether it's this hobby or any other hobby - it's caveat emptor. It is the first and most important thing one should learn before embarking into any hobby. Some will argue the point endlessly, but it's a fact - period.

Shouting about all the bad guys will not really change a thing as there will always be other bad guys to take their place. It's been that way since the beginning of time. Trying to police a hobby is near impossible.

There is only one thing any collector can do, and that's the usual mantra that we have all said and heard a million time before - do your homework and become your own expert in the items you collect. Protect yourself with knowledge. It takes a lot of time and effort, and is not something that can be acquired overnight.

It is easy to blame ebay, lazy sellers, SCD, evil dealers, auction houses, authenticating services, any and all ripoff artists, etc., etc., etc. . . In my humble opinion, at the end of the day, there is no one to blame but ourselves when we don't take on the responsibility of becoming well-educated in what we collect.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

[Nathan]

To point the finger solely at one side or the other is oversimplifying a complex issue (and no, I'm not accusing Mark or anyone else; his just happens to be the post above mine).

Here are the problems that we face on a daily basis:
1) Negligent authenticators
2) Uneducated collectors
3) Third parties (i.e. auction houses and a couple of dealers) that would rather protect their friends and wallet than do the right thing

This forum exists to aid in all three. We share information to help collectors become educated, we blow the whistle on items that are improperly deemed authentic, and we keep an eye and report on the third parties that behave in an unscrupulous manner.

In an ideal world, every person that's ever looked at buying a game jersey would be an educated member of our forum. But when you find an eBay auction that ends in 10 minutes for an iffy item at a great price, a lot of that goes out the window. It would be wonderful if everyone had the requisite knowledge already in their head, but it doesn't work that way. In this hobby, timing is a big part of being able to pick up a great item. I have missed out on numerous terrific items by seeing them five minutes too late, and at the same time have benefited by picking up a couple of items almost immediately after being posted for sale. Doing homework goes out the window in that scenario.

Here's the part about dealers/authenticators that fries me. In hockey (my primary collecting sport), we are fortunate to have Barry Meisel and Milt Byron. Both are longtime dealers, both are longtime authenticators, and both have lifetime money-back guarantees if they erroneously authenticate something that isn't good. Do baseball or football dealers offer the same thing? The simple fact is that hockey in the last 10 years has advanced into the modern era, while I look at baseball (especially) as being in the Stone Age.

Authenticators owe it to the hobby to be able to sit down and diligently research every item they see. Auction houses owe it to the hobby to oversee those authenticators and not pull the "we take their word" card out of their (not "hat", but something that sounds similar). And collectors owe it to the hobby to expand their base of knowledge so we can help ourselves, help each other, and keep a check on the unscrupulous.

And that's all I have to say about that.

[trsent]

Looking for Duane Kuiper home run baseballs

I am just wondering - If a guy has one career home run, aren't you looking for a "baseball" and not the plural?