Juan Iglesias and Joe Rivera- beware

[Padres_98]

So you are making a riff about getting scammed and you knew it was possible that the bats would not be authentic.

Next time don't buy without bats being Authenticated!!!

End of Story. You live and learn. Move on

[metsbats]

I believe there was some issue with a Pujols bat...

Yes Ben. Here's that thread.

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_f...=Juan+Iglesias

[ChrisCavalier]

So you are making a riff about getting scammed and you knew it was possible that the bats would not be authentic.

Next time don't buy without bats being Authenticated!!!

End of Story. You live and learn. Move on

Although I thought about not commenting on the post quoted above, I feel compelled to do so.

Obviously, not every item that is available in the secondary market is already authenticated. For whatever reason (maybe cost, etc), a seller may not want to have their items authenticated prior to selling them. If a buyer does not want to relegate themselves to buying only authenticated items (many buyers do not want to limit themselves) then they will inevitably run across items that are not already authenticated.

In this case, the buyer asked if the items could be returned they it did not pass authentication. This would be the equivalent of a warranty if you were buying an appliance from a store, etc. The reason a buyer gets a warranty is because there is a known possibility that something could be wrong with the product.

The buyer then paid to ship the bat to the authenticator and paid for the authentication under the stated condition that the item could be returned if it did not pass. Then, when they did not pass, the buyer was told basically to pound sand and that the items could not be returned even after they failed authentication.

I just have to say that I think your comments to "…live and learn" and "Move on" are not based on understanding the dynamics of the transaction. Or, if you did understand the dynamics then I'm guessing you didn't think it through before posting. To let sellers get away with this type of behavior would certainly not be something that would be good for the hobby and would open the door for other buyers to fall victim to the same selling tactics in the future.

Lastly, it is my understanding that there is another buyer who is a GUU member that had a similar situation with these sellers. I hope that GUU member posts here as well since this issue with the type of use on the bats the sellers have sold is clearly not an isolated incident.

-Chris

[Phil316]

I for one can say I will not be spending any more of my money with Juan. If you tell someone you will take a return and then flatly refuse, that's just not right. To me that is very unethical in my books.

I do not collect bats but from what I gather PSA is the top as far as grading bats. So if it fails PSA is that the end of the line ? I mean if the top company doesn't pass it that should be it. Bats should be returned no questions asked.

[ndevlin]

So you are making a riff about getting scammed and you knew it was possible that the bats would not be authentic.

Next time don't buy without bats being Authenticated!!!

End of Story. You live and learn. Move on

You only buy bats that are authenticated?

[danesei@yahoo.com]

One of the members posted about a Cabrera bat from Juan in another thread. Juan said it was a rookie gamer. Taube said it was a BP bat. MEARS said it was a 9.5. Looking at the knob, it looks like it wasn't written by Cabrera (doesn't match his signature inscription style from 2003), and the barrel was absolutely demolished without any blue transfers or much of what could be called seam impressions.

[3arod13]

One of the members posted about a Cabrera bat from Juan in another thread. Juan said it was a rookie gamer. Taube said it was a BP bat. MEARS said it was a 9.5. Looking at the knob, it looks like it wasn't written by Cabrera (doesn't match his signature inscription style from 2003), and the barrel was absolutely demolished without any blue transfers or much of what could be called seam impressions.

I think this is a perfect example of what makes the authentication process frustrating for many. However, many forget that all authentication service say that "it is our opinion this is genuine." Opinion, not fact, and that is what you are paying for (although we know that's not how it is supposed to work and people refuse to accept that). Most look at these LOAs as a guarantee their item is genuine, which as all of us have proven at one time or another, this isn't always the case.

Do they always get it right? Of course not. With the amount of stuff they authenticate, there is no way they can take the time and effort to do the due diligence required to ensure a piece is authentic, as many of us do on our own individual stuff. Especially if your sending something to them without any documentation at all.

With the amount of bad stuff out there, I think the authentication services is the next best thing out there and those LOAs give collectors (less knowledgeable) somewhat some comfort to just have one, than without one. Not sure if they will ever go away, unless more and more companies and/or services get shut down by the FBI for authenticating and selling fake stuff. And believe me, if many don't think they're being watched right now, they are wrong!

For me, I do like having an LOA (John Taube PSA) for my Game Used stuff and don't mind paying the money even though I have solid documentation and proof of provenance. When I send my stuff to John, I provide him plenty of research and documentation with my item. I do the homework first to ensure my stuff is legit, then I send it to John. Ok, I can hear you saying to yourself, "Tony, if you did all the research and have solid documentation and proof of provenance for your item, then why pay the money just to have a letter from PSA?" Well, for me it's pretty simple, I like having the PSA LOA's with my stuff and don't mind paying the money for it. Plus, I like the description write-ups.

Now, back to the original post topic. I emailed Juan and offered him to provided me a response to post, but haven't heard back from him. He did say this in his first email to me, "For the record , I didn't screw anyone. I just need another authenticator to look at the bat and then I will refund the money if he flags it. Taube says the use is BP. How can you determine that. It's impossible. I'm not a big fan of Taube and I never sold that bat with the condition of taube's approval." I think when things are purchased, there shouldn't be conditions like this, for this exact reason.

I think it's in Juan's best interest to just resolve this matter by taking the bats back and refunding Doug his money. In the end, word travels. One may get away with doing this for a while. But as it happens more and more, one will find themselves having a difficult time selling things with a really bad reputation.

[memorabiliaunlimited]

Now, back to the original post topic. I emailed Juan and offered him to provided me a response to post, but haven't heard back from him. He did say this in his first email to me, "For the record , I didn't screw anyone. I just need another authenticator to look at the bat and then I will refund the money if he flags it. Taube says the use is BP. How can you determine that. It's impossible. I'm not a big fan of Taube and I never sold that bat with the condition of taube's approval." I think when things are purchased, there shouldn't be conditions like this, for this exact reason.

when i bought my bat from him that failed, i had him send it directly to taube to save on the shipping - i never saw the bat in person until after taube failed it. i dont know about anyone else, but clearly, there was an understanding that whatever i was purchasing would pass PSA. i am also 99% certain he guaranteed that to me, i just have to look and find the email that said it.

[dougiedshow]

Tony,

Thanks for the input.

Joe Rivera guaranteed the bats would pass authentication or could be returned. Everyone in the hobby understands that means PSA, in my opinion. Had they said, "we won't back it to pass PSA, but it will pass Joe Blow's opinion" then I obviously would not have purchased the bats. The fact that Juan thinks another authenticator's opinion is acceptable, especially after it has failed the hobby leader, is proof of his character. I'm not sure what other opinion he thinks I should feel comfortable with, but I can tell you now, I don't.

The short sightedness of Juan and Joe is quite amazing. If they won't refund the Administrator of Game Used Universe... it's unlikely anyone would see a refund.

[skyking26]

I had one interaction as Juan the seller and I the purposed buyer of a bat via auction.

I was tipped off by a friend that the bat may be "suspect," so I asked the auction co for a secondary opinion. They agreed and another party gave it a far less GU grade, and was not in agreement with one's view of a crack as opposed to "deadwood." Too many if's for a high priced jersey. Props to the auction house as they let me out of the purchase. It was reauctioned for a much lower price.

Bad part about all this is the auction house in my situation gets the sting, and I also was without the item in the end. Everybody loses.

I've left names and the item in question intentially out here. People did me favors by examining the piece and the auction house was very good about everything so I'm going to leave all that alone. I thought it might help to bring attention that I'm another victim. I'm sure there are others -