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Thread: HOF voting

  1. #11
    Senior Member 3arod13's Avatar
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    Re: HOF voting

    Quote Originally Posted by 3arod13 View Post
    I find it amazing that many, including MLB, team owners, coaches, players, fans, collectors, media, ESPN, etc., all had an idea and/or knew back then that this was going on, yet cheered them on, with many benefitting from it and most enjoying the ride. Funny, how when things took a turn for the negative, many got on their high horse, look the other way, and now can't believe this even went on.
    And now they're considered cheaters. Hilarious!!
    Regards, Tony

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    ~I'm sorry, I can't hear you....my World Series Ring is making too much NOISE! - Alex Rodriguez~

  2. #12

    Re: HOF voting

    Some things that go into voting:

    Integrity-Nope
    Sportsmanship-Nope
    Character-Nope

    I'm not sure why anyone still thinks Clemens or Bonds should be in the HOF. Especially Bonds! Who cares what they did before steroids. The matter of the fact is they both lack any good moral values and are cheaters.

  3. #13
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    Re: HOF voting

    Quote Originally Posted by danesei@yahoo.com View Post
    What is your justification of 1993 for Bonds? Bonds was the reigning NL MVP going into 1993.
    That award does not give him the ability to hit .336 with 46 home runs.

  4. #14
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    Re: HOF voting

    Quote Originally Posted by Roady View Post
    That award does not give him the ability to hit .336 with 46 home runs.
    Correct. His ability to hit for contact, hit for power and quick bat speed led to his hitting .336 w/ 46 HR.

    1992 (age-27 season):
    140 G, 109 R, 147 H, 36 2B, 5 3B, 34 HR, 103 RBI, 39 SB, 8 CS, 127 BB

    1993 (age-28 season):
    159 G, 129 R, 181 H, 38 2B, 4 3B, 46 HR, 123 RBI, 29 SB, 12 CS, 126 BB

    He played 13.6% more games in 1993. He hit 35.3% more HRs in 1993. His batting average improved by 8%.

    Those aren't extreme changes.

    1994 (age-29 season):
    112 G, 89 R, 122 H, 18 2B, 1 3B, 37 HR, 74 RB, 29 SB, 9 CS, 74 BB

    1995 (age-30 season):
    144 G, 109 R, 149 H, 30 2B, 7 3B, 33 HR, 104 RBI, 31 SB, 10 CS, 120 BB

    If we go with your conclusion that Bonds used steroids from 1993, how do you explain 1994 and 1995? Did Bonds decide that he shouldn't use steroids anymore? His 1992 and 1995 seasons are nearly identical.

    The simpler (and far more logical) conclusion is that Bonds matured during his prime and learned to maximize his skill set.

    The difference in 1998 and 1999 statistics are far more drastic (and indicative of something changing).

    1998 (age-33 season):
    156 G, 120 R, 167 H, 44 2B, 7 3B, 37 HR, 122 RBI, 28 SB, 12 CS, 130 BB

    1999 (age-34 season):
    102 G, 91 R, 93 H, 20 2B, 2 3B, 34 HR, 83 RBI, 15 SB, 2 CS, 73 BB

    Another thing to consider is that Bonds' career unfortunately also involved three home ballparks:

    1986(21)-1992(27): Three Rivers Stadium (335 RF)
    1993(28)-1999(34): Candlestick Park (328 RF)
    2000(35)-2007(42): Pac Bell/SBC/AT&T Park (309 RF)

    The 309 RF foul pole made that a left-handed pull-hitter's dream. If you got the ball over the 24 ft wall, it was a HR. If you didn't clear the wall, the ball would take a wicked bounce, and the batter would be awarded with a double or triple.

  5. #15
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    Re: HOF voting

    In my mind Bonds is a cheater and got what he got with artificial help from illegal drugs. I believe wholly that he started taking PED's full time in 1993 and was experimenting with them in 1992. Bonds wanted to move to San Fran for a reason.

    I can't say anymore because every time I defend my point of view on this site I get an email from administration because some people want me off of here and report my post as hostile or baiting. I am down to my last warning so I must be very careful of what I say.

    Have a good day and believe what you want.

  6. #16
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    Re: HOF voting

    Quote Originally Posted by Roady View Post
    I can't say anymore because every time I defend my point of view on this site I get an email from administration because some people want me off of here and report my post as hostile or baiting. I am down to my last warning so I must be very careful of what I say.
    Roady, I think I'm vocal in my opinion, but when I say things, I do my best to back up my opinions with facts. To my knowledge, I've never received an email warning, and I also feel that certain members can be hostile at times. How many warnings are people given that you'd be down to your last one already?

    That said, I don't get how defending your claim/theory that Bonds started using PEDs in 1992 would get you banned. Just use facts and statistics to support your claim.

    San Francisco is Bonds' hometown. He was offered a contract by them coming out of HS, but opted for college. SF made him the highest paid player in MLB history when he signed in 1993 (as a free agent). You're right. He wanted to move home.

  7. #17
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    Re: HOF voting

    I received 2 warnings.

  8. #18
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    Re: HOF voting

    I thought the commonly held belief -- and I'm not interested in Bonds enough to care to look it up -- was that he started juicing because he was jealous of all the attention McGwire and Sosa were getting. A quick look at his stats, to me, show that to be where he jumped to superhuman status.

  9. #19
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    Re: HOF voting

    He averaged 25 HR's a year his first 7 years. Even taking away his first year in which he only played 113 games his average for the next 6 years was 26.6 a year.
    Hit hit 46 in 1993. Nearly double his average. I really doubt if any players HR totals nearly double just because of moving from Pittsburgh to San Fransisco.

  10. #20
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    Re: HOF voting

    I will state that I have zero proof that Bonds did PED's in 1993.

    I have watched baseball my entire life and I have said since 1993 that he was on steroids. I was laughed at and ridiculed for many years about my belief that he and McGwire and Canseco and others were cheaters, until it was shown to be true.

    I believe he started for sure in 1993. He just got better drugs and was taking them more aggressively in 2000.
    Most people didn't want to believe that McGwire could have taken them his entire career until he stated it to be true.
    I told people since he was a rookie that he was a roider.

 

 

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