THOME Hit #600

[CampWest]

But, you also can't assume that he did use because of it either. Unless there is some evidence out there that he did. We can't put an astericks(I hope I spelled that right) next to everything in this era. Yes, there are some that used, but there are also some that did not.

+1

And I am shocked that a huge Bagwell fan made that statement about Thome. Bagwell has often been accused and judged by many people based on nothing but association and the fact that he added a lot of muscle mass over the years. Personally I don't have any reason to assume Bagwell used (I believe he was just a gym rat and that he got involved in body-building lifting instead of baseball strength training which ruined the end of his career).

And the same goes for Thome.

As a game used collector, we've seen hat/helmet sizes of some of the guys known to have used steroids and there is some evidence there in things that should not change significantly (hat and show size specifically). Bonds went from like a 7 3/8" hat to an 8 1/4 I think it was. Jose Guillen from a 7 1/4 to an 8. Etc. Bagwell still wore a 7 1/4 hat at the end of his career. I believe the last Thome hat I saw was right where I expected it to be.

I dunno, Frik, I'm pretty sure you have fought the fact-less Bagwell accusations in the past, not sure you should then turn around and throw Thome under the bus.

[sox83cubs84]

Personally, I believe Thome and Bagwell are both clean, as was Frank Thomas.

Dave Miedema

[Tallyman77]

Barry Bonds wore a size 7 1/8 with ASU and with the Pittsburgh Pirates, then 7 1/4 while with the San Francisco Giants. I have never seen anything above a 7 1/4 that was actually genuine for Bonds. Please remember, hair styles as well as cap manufacturers are valid reasons for cap size increase or decrease and cannot always be associated with steroids and such. But with Bonds, he chooses a shaved head with the Giants and the cap size increases......go figure.

-Walt

Tallyman77

Evergreen7777@att.net

[thomecollector]

Not to ruin the moment, but I don't think we can assume anyone from the Steroid Era has done things "the right way." Steroids were rampant, and from what I've heard, over half of ballplayers used them. I don't know how Thome's not being caught equates to his playing the game clean. JMO.

Just like you Les to always try to ruin the moment. Remember , You are inocent til PROVEN guilty.

[frikativ54]

+1

And I am shocked that a huge Bagwell fan made that statement about Thome. Bagwell has often been accused and judged by many people based on nothing but association and the fact that he added a lot of muscle mass over the years. Personally I don't have any reason to assume Bagwell used (I believe he was just a gym rat and that he got involved in body-building lifting instead of baseball strength training which ruined the end of his career).

And the same goes for Thome.

As a game used collector, we've seen hat/helmet sizes of some of the guys known to have used steroids and there is some evidence there in things that should not change significantly (hat and show size specifically). Bonds went from like a 7 3/8" hat to an 8 1/4 I think it was. Jose Guillen from a 7 1/4 to an 8. Etc. Bagwell still wore a 7 1/4 hat at the end of his career. I believe the last Thome hat I saw was right where I expected it to be.

I dunno, Frik, I'm pretty sure you have fought the fact-less Bagwell accusations in the past, not sure you should then turn around and throw Thome under the bus.

I never said that Thome used. I just don't think that we should declare a player to be clean just because he hasn't been caught. We should take everybody from that era's numbers with a grain of salt, because steroids were rampant back then. I'm not accusing anybody of anything, nor should I.

As for Bagwell, it is totally irrelevant here. I never said that Bagwell was clean; he may well have used steroids. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if he did. I don't support baseless accusations; I was just pointing out that we shouldn't make assumptions on a guy's use just because he hasn't been caught.

[otismalibu]

But with Bonds, he chooses a shaved head with the Giants and the cap size increases......go figure.

Totally unrelated to the debate...

IMO, a larger lid is a must with a shaved head. Except for those first few hours when your dome is stubble-free, gotta bump it up for comfort. Think velcro

[Number13]

I never said that Thome used. I just don't think that we should declare a player to be clean just because he hasn't been caught. We should take everybody from that era's numbers with a grain of salt, because steroids were rampant back then. I'm not accusing anybody of anything, nor should I.

Once again, is there anything on Thome where he should be "caught." Is the MLB gonna investigate every single player, especially one that puts up big power numbers? So because some players juiced we are suppossed to second guess players like Thome and wonder if his numbers are enhanced by anything? And I don't mean to single out Thome, this could be other players as well. Unless there is evidence out there or admission I don't see why we should second guess players.

And if in the future we find out that Thome did, so what. Does that really change our perception of someone that much. I'm not a Thome fan, but I don't think every fan of his will discredit him if he used.

Kinda in the same realm. What about all the great pitchers who used spit, dirt, grease, nail files, etc. that put up great numbers during their careers. Are we to say that we should look at their strikeout numbers and ERAs with a grain of salt too? We can smear them too if we wanted, but we don't. That was the game back then. They too were trying to gain an advantage just like players using steroids now. Am I saying that any of it is right, NO, but don't think that there wasn't a time throughtout the history of baseball where no one try to do something or use something to gain an advantage.

So if you want to take it all the way back, all baseball numbers from the 19th Century on need to be taken with a grain of salt. Not my belief, but just sayin'.

Numbers are numbers. I am not a person that tries to compare players over different generations. The game has been evolving since day one. I'm starting to ramble and go off topic, so I'm gonna stop.