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  1. #1
    Senior Member joelsabi's Avatar
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    1983 to 2009 New Era Hat Tagging Primer

    i have been researching hats for awhile trying to see if there is any way to date new era hats. i really need more examples but here is my research up to this point. i try to get exemplars of player hats of players who have played for a specific team for 2 or less seasons so that the taggging can be pinpointed for a specific year. if you can help me out with other examples that would be helpful and I can update my list. also this covers regular hats and not bp or and not special hats. adding bp hats to the research really confused the situation so i discounted them in my search.

    if you have any examples that seems to refute my findings please mention this also. sometime what is observed is not what is happening and my conclusions maybe be wrong. maybe a tag was introduced +/1 a year. this is a work in progress and feedback is appreciated.

    thanks for your help in advance. any feedback is appreciated.
    Attached Images Attached Images     
    Regards,
    Joel S.
    joelsabi @ gmail.com
    Wanted: Alex Rodriguez Game Used Items and other unique artifacts, 1992 thru 1998 only. From High School to Early Mariners.

  2. #2
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    Re: 1983 to 2009 New Era Hat Tagging Primer

    Great work on this!

    It will be very helpful.

    Thanks,
    Dustin

  3. #3

    Re: 1983 to 2009 New Era Hat Tagging Primer

    Wow, Joel! Great work.

    I have 4 examples that may be of interest to you:

    1. Rickey Henderson Blue Jays cap from 1993. As you know, he only played half of a season with the Jays, so this example can specifically be attributed to 1993. I have a MOS certificate for this, so provenance is excellent.

    2. Dave Winfiedl cap from 1992. He only played once season with the Jays in 1992, so this can also be attributed to a specific year.

    3. Jesse Barfield 1989 cap. The reason why I was able to date this cap was because this is the first year that the Jays wore the navy blue caps as road caps. As you know, Barfield was traded mid-season, so the only option would be if he wore it in 1989. I had Barfied personally inspect this cap when I met him a few weeks ago -- so I am confident in its provenance.

    4. Shannon Stewart 2000-2001 cap. The only reason why I was able to date it was because it came with a cert from Authentic Sports Investments, and was dated in late 2001. The Jays only started wearing this style of alternate cap in 2000, so the only possibility is 2000-2001.

    Check out my photos at:

    http://sports.webshots.com/album/578047229aCaulX

    I have a few spring training caps, no sure whether or not they will be useful to you. Looking at what you've compiled, all tagging matches up with my examples. The only question mark is my 1992 Winfield example.

    Please let me know what you think. I can provide additional photos of the inner tagging, if necessary.
    ------------------------------------
    My Blue Jays Collection

  4. #4

    Re: 1983 to 2009 New Era Hat Tagging Primer

    I should also mention that my 1992 Winfield example matches up with detailed photos that I have analyzed in a 1992 Blue Jays season large-size book. In all examples that I have seen, the size tag is not how you have shown it in your 1988-1993 column, and not in the 1992 example that you described. I'm sure there was some variance amongst different teams, but just thought I'd mention it. I'd be happy to scan in some of the photos from my book as well.
    ------------------------------------
    My Blue Jays Collection

  5. #5

    Re: 1983 to 2009 New Era Hat Tagging Primer

    Quote Originally Posted by vballGuy View Post
    I should also mention that my 1992 Winfield example matches up with detailed photos that I have analyzed in a 1992 Blue Jays season large-size book. In all examples that I have seen, the size tag is not how you have shown it in your 1988-1993 column, and not in the 1992 example that you described. I'm sure there was some variance amongst different teams, but just thought I'd mention it. I'd be happy to scan in some of the photos from my book as well.
    Sorry, I meant to say that it matches up well with the example shown in your 1988-1993 column and NOT in the 1992 example shown.
    ------------------------------------
    My Blue Jays Collection

  6. #6
    Senior Member joelsabi's Avatar
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    Re: 1983 to 2009 New Era Hat Tagging Primer

    Quote Originally Posted by vballGuy View Post
    I should also mention that my 1992 Winfield example matches up with detailed photos that I have analyzed in a 1992 Blue Jays season large-size book. In all examples that I have seen, the size tag is not how you have shown it in your 1988-1993 column, and not in the 1992 example that you described. I'm sure there was some variance amongst different teams, but just thought I'd mention it. I'd be happy to scan in some of the photos from my book as well.

    Thanks on the reply. Your hats look like great examples that would assist in the research. If you can take photos of your 4 hats at an angle that I can read the tags, that would be helpful. Some of your tags are folded backwards too and I do not want to guess what tags they are.

    The samples from the 1992 Blue Jays large size book are interesting to me too. Scans would be helpful. I am not sure why the Blue Jays would be interested in photographing the inside of the hats but I might find something useful.

    On the size tag being different on the 1988-1993 than what you have seen, are the size tag you have seen look like the 1985-1987 or 1993-1996 version?
    Do you think you can track down some example and I will look back on my example. I will note this down tho. Thanks.

    Those borderline years were hard to determine. Could there be variances at the breakpoints? I imagine yes. Tags are tags and hat are hats. I am sure the manufacturers used up all tags even if new tags were introduced and equipment managers didn’t throw away surplus hats just because it was at the end of the season.
    Regards,
    Joel S.
    joelsabi @ gmail.com
    Wanted: Alex Rodriguez Game Used Items and other unique artifacts, 1992 thru 1998 only. From High School to Early Mariners.

  7. #7

    Re: 1983 to 2009 New Era Hat Tagging Primer

    Quote Originally Posted by joelsabi View Post
    Thanks on the reply. Your hats look like great examples that would assist in the research. If you can take photos of your 4 hats at an angle that I can read the tags, that would be helpful. Some of your tags are folded backwards too and I do not want to guess what tags they are.

    The samples from the 1992 Blue Jays large size book are interesting to me too. Scans would be helpful. I am not sure why the Blue Jays would be interested in photographing the inside of the hats but I might find something useful.

    On the size tag being different on the 1988-1993 than what you have seen, are the size tag you have seen look like the 1985-1987 or 1993-1996 version?
    Do you think you can track down some example and I will look back on my example. I will note this down tho. Thanks.

    Those borderline years were hard to determine. Could there be variances at the breakpoints? I imagine yes. Tags are tags and hat are hats. I am sure the manufacturers used up all tags even if new tags were introduced and equipment managers didn’t throw away surplus hats just because it was at the end of the season.
    Hi Joel. I'll try and email you some more detailed pics sometime tonight or tomorrow night. The size tag on my 1992 gamer is similar to the tag shown in your 1988-1993 row entry. So still within reason. It just doesn't match up well with your 1992 row entry.

    The large Blue Jays photobook that I have doesn't have direct photos of the underside of the caps, however there are a few photos where various Blue Jays are holding their caps up, and you can clearly see the size tag in one of these photos. I'll scan this one and send it to you -- but it was merely to illustrate that: a) The underside brim colour (green) matches up with my gamer; and b) The size tag is similar to what you've shown in the 1988-1993 row entry.
    ------------------------------------
    My Blue Jays Collection

  8. #8
    Senior Member joelsabi's Avatar
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    Re: 1983 to 2009 New Era Hat Tagging Primer

    Quote Originally Posted by vballGuy View Post
    Hi Joel. I'll try and email you some more detailed pics sometime tonight or tomorrow night. The size tag on my 1992 gamer is similar to the tag shown in your 1988-1993 row entry. So still within reason. It just doesn't match up well with your 1992 row entry.
    Thanks.

    Like I said most of the samples from the 1992 range look like the 1988-1993 row.

    I just like some of the sample I have from the 1992 season with these three combination of tags. One example is a White Sox cap for Scott Hemmond. He a perfect sample being not a star and having been traded in the middle of the season to Chicago and not being resigned in 1993. Great provenance too. But the more sample I have the better you can make an analysis of what is going on so I am leaving that up for now.
    Regards,
    Joel S.
    joelsabi @ gmail.com
    Wanted: Alex Rodriguez Game Used Items and other unique artifacts, 1992 thru 1998 only. From High School to Early Mariners.

  9. #9

    Re: 1983 to 2009 New Era Hat Tagging Primer

    Not an expert, but the Figgins hat I have is definitely 2002-03. I'm can't say for sure, but the 2001-2005 hats apparently had both New Era tags during that era (if the blog I showed is correct). The overlap in years is definitely a possibility (both Joel and the blog state this). I'm definitely stoked though that Joel"s and the blog primers are now available. Finally, hats get there due!!!!
    Rob L
    loefflerrd@cox.net

    Always On the Look Out for Troy Percival & Randy Johnson Gamers

    Rob L's Baseball Memorabilia website: GU Troy Percival, GU Randy Johnson, GU Angels, GU Baseball, 19th Century Baseball and Autographs. Also a huge Game Used Resource page and Game Used Collectors Page: www.loefflerrd.webs.com

  10. #10
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    Re: 1983 to 2009 New Era Hat Tagging Primer

    Nice work, Joel. I had some of the basic parameters down on this for a few years, but you've highlighted details I was not aware of. Great work!

    Dave Miedema

 

 

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