Heritage: "We're Comfortable Running The Butkus Helmet...."

[aeneas01]

I don't know what all the bickering/agitation is about..

didn't mean to come across as abrasive or combative - i suppose your posts with the photos just reminded me of a tactic employed by some auction houses from time to time: point to similarities while ignoring the fact that it's clearly not the same item in question. i know this wasn't your intention....

I'm not sure why it was necessary to revisit the Mastro auction. It only added to the confusion...

if possible, i think it's important to show how a bunk item was first deemed authentic, i.e. how it first made it's way into circulation. in this case mastro compared the auction helmet to an iconic photo of butkus and claimed that it was the same helmet. from there it made the rounds as authentic. not sure why this was confusing...

It is obvious, with attention to detail, that there is a whrilwind of problems with the offered helmet. What's interesting to me (as you mentioned above) is that there ARE pics out there that "resemble" the offered helmet a little better than the original photo(s) provided.

no doubt txs - mastro could have at least selected a photo of butkus sporting the other helmet as it would have been a much better (albeit only frontal) match. i suppose the good news is that buyers get fleeced for less and less each time this helmet surfaces - it sold for about 30% less at heritage when compared to what mastro got for it...

it would be nice to see heritage contact the buyer to tell him that the accompanying loa was based on a photo of butkus that, upon further scrutiny, did not match the auction helmet. and that after further review, heritage has been unable to find a single photo or film clip that confirms butkus did indeed wear the offered helmet. yep, that would be nice to see...

...

[TriplexXxSports]

......it would be nice to see heritage contact the buyer to tell him that the accompanying loa was based on a photo of butkus that, upon further scrutiny, did not match the auction helmet. and that after further review, heritage has been unable to find a single photo or film clip that confirms butkus did indeed wear the offered helmet. yep, that would be nice to see...

What?! And give up that sweet chunk of change made off of Consignment fees and Buyers Premiums?

That would be the noble/honest way to do it but unfortunately, in this day and age, it will show up again at another auction firm and we will be having the same debate. Heritage turned a blind eye (despite being properly informed) cashed out, and wiped their hands clean of the whole ordeal. Its someone else problem now, and that's a shame.

I just feel for the person who forked out the cash, probably relying mostly on the Auction Houses reputation and description of authentication.

[slats7]

What?! And give up that sweet chunk of change made off of Consignment fees and Buyers Premiums?

That would be the noble/honest way to do it but unfortunately, in this day and age, it will show up again at another auction firm and we will be having the same debate. Heritage turned a blind eye (despite being properly informed) cashed out, and wiped their hands clean of the whole ordeal. Its someone else problem now, and that's a shame.

I just feel for the person who forked out the cash, probably relying mostly on the Auction Houses reputation and description of authentication.

They no doubt hope that bidders don't do their homework or stumble upon forums like this one. PT Barnum was right when it came to "suckers."

[trsent]

As I posted before. I find the problem here is that Heritage has a policy to trust authenticators even when one of the most respected game used helmet experts in the world comes to their attention with facts showing there are issues.

The big head of the coin/currency dealers now in the sports memorabilia business showing no respect for facts possibly selling questionable merchandise is a shame to the industry.

I would expect more from Heritage, but I guess when your father owns the company you believe that you are better than one of the leading game used helmet experts in the world since you have a letter from an authenticator who didn't do the homework Robert did.

Chris Ivy? Are you reading this? You should man up and do the right thing before we lose more customers in this industry who spent their hard earned money for questionable items.

[aeneas01]

What?! And give up that sweet chunk of change made off of Consignment fees and Buyers Premiums?

keep in mind most auction houses actively purchase collections and/or individual pieces outright as well - as such an auction house can be on the hook for much more than just a commission percentage. hypothetically, assume heritage actually purchased the butkus helmet outright for $6k or so knowing it sold for more than twice as much at mastro. in this case heritage would be out much more than $2k in buyer/seller fees if forced to eat it.

...

[aeneas01]

recently came across this fantastic rare photo of joe namath during the 1968 afl east/west allstar classic played on 01/19/69, taken just one week after he led the jets to an improbable super bowl 3 victory over the heavily favored baltimore colts.

it immediately brought to mind the embarrassing research job heritage did on a helmet they were convinced was namath's sb3 gamer, a helmet they described as "...arguably the most significant football artifact ever to reach the auction block" and which they claimed was given to the owner right after the super bowl. heritage listed the helmet with a starting bid of $50,000 in their 2008 signature auction. but, as it turned out, the helmet was proven not to be namath's sb3 gamer - in fact, as it turned out, the helmet didn't even belong to namath, he never wore it. heritage was forced to yank the thing.

after such an ugly and public black eye one would think heritage might consider exercising a little more diligence in their research the next time around but, alas, the butkus helmet clearly suggests otherwise....

anyway, what i found especially entertaining about this photo is that namath is sporting his sb3 helmet in this allstar game - the side "jets" decals have been removed and so have the two center stripes (however you can still clearly see remnants of the center stripes). as such namath's sb3 helmet, dressed as he wore it in sb3, is gone forever...



....

[cohibasmoker]

Last week I happened to get an email from another collector. In the email, he addressed a variety of issues one of which it seemed to him that the amount of suspension helmets worn by big name players have diminished and/or practically disappeared. My reply was then as it is now - there's a new sheriff in town.

After reading this thread, are there any doubt's?

Jim

flaa1a@comcast.net

[Mark17]

Look at the screws on the facemask. The offered lid has phillips head screws, the Butkus photos all seem to show single slot screw heads.