Chris Boyd's Business Practices - Part Deux

[Ozric]

I may be missing something, but if the seller lied about the source of the item, then there is misrepresentation. The source of the item can directly dictate the fair market value of the item (Overpriced NFL Auctions). If the seller claimed it came from a clubhouse source and has documentation to support such source, then told her it came from a dealer after the fact, the credibility of the item has been diminished and therefore it's value. Clearly she overpaid for the item, but if it was based on false pretenses because of the advertised source, then there should be some accountability.

[allstarsplus]

I'll even expand on that.

I understand the cynicism, but I would say it's the old addage "You have to be smarter than the tool in your hand".

There is NOTHING like a picture match. NOTHING. It is more reliable than the athlete himself handing you an item and telling you "I wore it in a game". He could be lying. A picture-match NEVER lies. And the more pictures of the same thing, the sounder the proof.

Especially in regards to game used items, do your homework. Walking blindly into a sale, especially when it's for an item you're spending thousands of dollars on, it pays to be overly cautious and check it out as thoroughly as you can before you buy it.

Take it from me.....I learned the hard way once or twice myself. There are bad people making a living off the ones who allow them to. Learn from this and don't make the same mistakes in the future. Giving up....you are allowing this type of individual to get the best of you. Don't do that. Don't let the wrong people in the world make you feel defeated. The successful people in life all have one thing in common; They learn from their mistakes, and build on that newly found knowledge.

You are stronger now for it. Use that to YOUR advantage.

Steve - Very well said and good advice for life in general.

I have had good dealings with Chris Boyd a few years ago so reading this thread is tough, and hopefully you and Chris can resolve your differences.

On a side-note, we can debate "what" Fair Market Value is all day long, but a integral part of the definition has to be a fair description.

[frikativ54]

I may be missing something, but if the seller lied about the source of the item, then there is misrepresentation. The source of the item can directly dictate the fair market value of the item (Overpriced NFL Auctions). If the seller claimed it came from a clubhouse source and has documentation to support such source, then told her it came from a dealer after the fact, the credibility of the item has been diminished and therefore it's value. Clearly she overpaid for the item, but if it was based on false pretenses because of the advertised source, then there should be some accountability.

Exactly. On the last thread, he told me that I got the one from the guy in Colorado, and that the one he kept had Jeff holding it and it was from California - direct from his friend. Now, he's saying the shirt was from the friend of Jeff's in California. Though I never got pics with Jeff holding my jersey. Though I do have pics of the same jersey I have from the guy in Colorado, that proves that he's lying. He can't keep his word straight, and I am glad that I won't have to deal with him again. I've blocked his email address.

[frikativ54]

On a side-note, we can debate "what" Fair Market Value is all day long, but a integral part of the definition has to be a fair description.

And a fair description includes a fair indication of provenance. Thank goodness I never have to deal with the guy again.

[eGameUsed]

Wow, this again huh? It is amazing how a story can be made to sound in someone's side. There are multiple issues here, and I will address since Leslie has chosen to keep private dealings in the public.

First, I offered the UNMODIFED Bagwell Sam bat to Leslie for free, with the promise she report to the forum it was not altered. She refused to take it with the caveat I sell her somne cleats she desperately wants. Fine, we will play your rules. The bat is still in my possession. I had two forum members offer to sell the bat with 100% funds going to charity. I still have the bat in my possesion as the offer still stands to Leslie.

Second, even after outing me for my "business practices," Leslie still wants to buy these cleats. I know she is very much after these cleats, but from Day 1 she has been upset because I wouldn't even give her the contact I was negotiating with. Now that I do own them, she demands they be hers. Not 2 days after she destroyed me on the forum and defamed me without proper evidence, she is asking for the cleats. Even just yesterday, she asked (I paraphrase) - "Have you figured out what you are going to do with the cleats? I would really like to have them." I kindley responded I do not want to conduct business with her right now. LESLIE, IF YOU DEPLORE MY BUSINESS PRACTICES, STAY AWAY!!!! Ousting me on the forum doesn't make me want to sell items to you.

Third, Leslie's first purchase from me was a pair of Bagwell cleats. No issues I guess. Second purchase was the batting gloves. Let me enlighten you on that fun dealing. She inquired and I stated I did not have a pair for sale with the hard shell, but did have a pair void of the shell. Bagwell himself told me at a signing that he would receive one shell for every 20 pairs; hence the velcro and reusable nature. I did tell her I was not keen on selling the second pair at this time as it was my last pair available. SHE personnally kept raising the price until her final offer was $1000, paid over multiple months. That is a lot of money! The most I have sold a pair up to that point was maybe $700-750. Heck yeah I will do it. REMEMBER that she made the price, not me. I challenge anyone on this board to take a lower price than offered for an item. Who would turn that down??? She kindly paid for them over time, ahead of schedule, she received them, and was very please based on all indications. A few days later she sees a picture posted on my site of MY pair of gloves with the hard shell. She called me multiple times over a 15 minute period while I ate dinner with my wife. She insisted that I must send her the pair with the shell as I decived her. No Leslie, that pair is not available for sale. When she asked why I didn't tell her I had them, I told here they were not for sale and that is why I didn't offer them. So, accuse me of overcharging, but don't forget who made the price.

Fourth, the jersey, my favorite transaction by far. This is a long one, but I will not rehash it all. The deal started at $3000 for a unsigned jersey I offered. Again, that was a mutually agreed to price. She said it would take up to 5 months to pay for, but I told her I was getting a fair deal and this would allow her to get the item she desperately wanted. All of this after weeks of begging to make a pinstripe available. After approximately 4-6 weeks, I alerted her of another jersey that had come available, similar qualities (pinstripe, good use, etc.). She commented that autograph was weak. I then had the chance to get a third jersey, which I offered her and she liked the autograph. In the meantime, I sold the second jersey which she passed on and Bagwell did a signing at Minute Maid Park. Bagwell signed the jersey for me and then I offered her another choice. She chose the jersey she wanted. We spent hours discussing the quality of the autographs, jersey, etc. Again, I gave her complete choice over the jersey. She did agree to pay $275 more for the signed one. So, what we have here is 3 jerseys - First purchased from Lelands, Second from a relation of Jeff's in California that many items come from, and Third a collector in California with ties to the Astros clubhouse. Leslie chose the third, which she says I now deceive her. I can not tell you how many hours I spent on the phone with Leslie discussing this to help her make the choice. If you take my hourly rate my employer pays me and services rendered on this jersey, then Leslie still owes me!!! There was no deception!

Fifth, a pair of cleats Leslie did not purchase. Last year Leslie asked about other Bagwell cleats. It was a pair I recently acquired from eBay. I paid $375. She badly wanted them and kept asking and making offers. She finally stopped at $1200, when I said I really didn't want to sell them as I wanted to hold them for now. I didn't suggest that price, she did. I still have them to this day.

Sixth, I guarantee the authenticity of the items I sale for life. I will offer a 100% refund if an item is every found to be not as desctibed, or proven by 3rd part authentication. I also offer refunds withing 7 days of receipt, no questions asked. I do not offers refunds for people thinking I am a cheat, people regreting they made a purchase, 12 months after a purchase, or because I won't sell them another item. Isn't it ironic Leslie send a bunch of congenial e-mails to me, until today when I tell her I don't want to deal with her. Now she outs me again publically!

Leslie, don't bother blocking my e-mails or calls. I am not the one starting them. I am the one that needs to block you! I have asked you verbally and via e-mail to stop corresponding with me. It has turned to harrasment and your recent outbreaks on the forum are not only not warranted, but not 100% honest.

I am sorry you feel that pissing me off to get to an item I own is the best approach. Leave me alone and find someone else to harrass!

[allstarsplus]

And a fair description includes a fair indication of provenance. Thank goodness I never have to deal with the guy again.

A TRUE indication of provenance will enhance fair market value which is why items on MLB Auctions and NFL Auctions appear to sell for large premiums.

Not everyone will disclose their true sources for an honest provenance and my favorite blanket statement is 99% of our items come direct from the player----if you hear that----think twice.

[eGameUsed]

Exactly. On the last thread, he told me that I got the one from the guy in Colorado, and that the one he kept had Jeff holding it and it was from California - direct from his friend. Now, he's saying the shirt was from the friend of Jeff's in California. Though I never got pics with Jeff holding my jersey. Though I do have pics of the same jersey I have from the guy in Colorado, that proves that he's lying. He can't keep his word straight, and I am glad that I won't have to deal with him again. I've blocked his email address.

Okay, okay, okay, let's all stop speculating and going back in forth. Leslie, you passed up the jersey from the guy in California when you choose the bolder, stonger autograph. You opted for the 3rd jersey, which happened to be from a collector in Colorado. Your letter from me states "Astros Clubhouse Source." Some might say this is vague, but the collector in Coloardo does have a source in the clubhouse, a guy I have purchase 2 Bagwell jerseys, 1 Biggio jersey, 2 pairs of Bagwell cleats, 1 pair of Bagwell Gloves, and an awesome Biggio bat.

I also have never owned a picture of Jeff holding a Pinstripe jersey. I only have one jersey that has Jeff holding it and it is a 2000 Home Alternate White that is photographed on my website. Are you making this up or have selective hearing or what?

So, I have a question, do you want a Bagwell game used jersey from a guy in California or a Bagwell game used jersey from a guy in Colorado? I thought you wanted the Bagwell jersey that you liked the best. You chose it. Now the autograph is fading, the story is no to your liking. What's next?

If I told you I bought the Bagwell batting gloves from a kid that Bagwell tossed them to in the stands would you like them less? Are you buying the item or who after Bagwell hung it in the closet?

[frikativ54]

So much misleading information. So many half-truths. Admit the truth, Chris, the jersey was bought for $1495 from a dealer in Colorado. They were bought from a dealer I had just as much access to as you did. I have the pictures of my jersey, sent to me by this guy in Colorado. Is he somehow lying?

No issues with those cleats. The Bagwell gloves - you made up the $1000 figure, not me. You sent me pictures, then when I wanted them, told me you weren't keen on selling them. Then you made up an outlandish price, which I accepted, because my birthday was coming up, and I wanted a present, and said it was only fair that you sell them to me.

I did not call you multiple times about the gloves. I called you once. You forget to mention that you found a pair with a plastic hard shall, and I agreed to exchange my pair, pending pictures. You then sold them, because you claimed you had a $1700 offer, even when we had an agreement. You just should tell the truth. You are not telling me the truth, and I am getting sick of it.

[frikativ54]

Man, you change your stories quickly, Chris. This is not what you told me at all over the email.

[GarkoCollector]

No issues with those cleats. The Bagwell gloves - you made up the $1000 figure, not me. You sent me pictures, then when I wanted them, told me you weren't keen on selling them. Then you made up an outlandish price, which I accepted, because my birthday was coming up, and I wanted a present, and said it was only fair that you sell them to me. who made the decision that it was "only fair?"

I did not call you multiple times about the gloves. I called you once. You forget to mention that you found a pair with a plastic hard shall, and I agreed to exchange my pair, pending pictures. you might have requested to exchange them, but he obviously never accepted that as he intentionally didnt mention to you they were available

Les,
Just some things sticking in my mind based on the replies. They are in bold above.
Tom