NFL jerseys in next Mastro auction

[nyjetsfan14]

Is it just me, or are many of the jerseys and helmets the same ones over and over again from other auction sites. I collect helmets and Packer items, so I don't keep tabs on the jerseys too much, but many of the helmets in the auction, as well as the Nitschke jersey were in the Heritage auction a year or two ago. Same with the Jim Taylor warmup jacket. The Hornung helmet sold at a Heritage auction with a BD-9 mask attached, and now at this auction, it is for sale again, but without the mask. Why was the mask removed?

I always notice that, especially with Jets items constantly going from one auction house to another (a few of the Jets items in this Mastro auction have been seen in several other auctions with the oddest being the Don Maynard items that keep making their rounds). Also, so much of what I see in auction houses I have seen previously on e-Bay. I assume they have reps/buyers surfing e-Bay as well as other regular Joes looking for that flip and corresponding profit. Makes me wonder if any auction house peeps ever look thru the collector to collector classifieds here or if folks buy stuff from the GUU for sale section to flip at an auction house? Anyhow, I have yet to comprehend why a vintage item on e-Bay gets so little action/attention than it gets flipped in an auction house with a worthless letter of opinion and goes for 5+ times more and that's not including the 20% hammer fee mark ups?!

[mvandor]

Re: the Brown, yes, it's hard to imagine a Brown not being pounded, even if he was wearig a new one in his final game and this is it. And if I recall correctly, hasn't Bushing left authenticating at MEARS because he took too much justified heat for authenticating his own stuff and flipping it?

[Jake51]

Two cents here...and this is all this comment is probably really worth....but I have a high level of confidence that almost all of the items in the auction belong to one private collector who is dumping his [substantial] stash.

So the reason we saw many of these items show up in different auctions and now here is because that is how this person built his collection - buying from the various auction houses.

No comment/clue on the specifics of any of the items but I have to say that some of them are pretty fun to look at!

Thanks,

Tom

[ChrisCavalier]

Two cents here...and this is all this comment is probably really worth....but I have a high level of confidence that almost all of the items in the auction belong to one private collector who is dumping his [substantial] stash.

So the reason we saw many of these items show up in different auctions and now here is because that is how this person built his collection - buying from the various auction houses.

Hello Tom,

I believe your assessment is correct. In fact, my understanding is that Mastro did secure one of the larger football collections in the hobby and that many of the items were acquired through various auctions, among other venues. That may explain why many of these items have been seen in auction before.

On a separate note as an admin as relates to some previous posts in the thread (not Tom's). If you do have questions about any of the items please feel free to contact Mastro and post any information you find here. I would also ask that the discussions focus on the specifics of the items themselves and not focus on individuals. That is, I don't see the need to bring up anyone personally unless it has verifiable relevance to the item itself. If there is evidence that has a definitive bearing on the item please state the specifics with facts to support it. Otherwise, let's stay focused on the items.

Also, as per the forum rules, I would ask that this thread not turn into an attempt to attack anyone. Again, unless there is something which can be added that can be proven to have an impact on the item itself, let's please stay focused on the items themselves as I think that is where those reading this thread can benefit.

[Jake51]

Hi Chris,

My intent was never to point a finger at anyone, just trying to give an answer to the question about why these items showed up in previous auctions and now were all in one place.

Sorry if my comment was misconstrued.

Thanks,

Tom

[ChrisCavalier]

Hi Chris,

My intent was never to point a finger at anyone, just trying to give an answer to the question about why these items showed up in previous auctions and now were all in one place.

Sorry if my comment was misconstrued.

Hello Tom,

Actually I owe you the apology. I guess my post was not clear. My posts contained two parts and the part about the consignor was the only part I intended to reference you (given your previous post).

My reference to mentioning individuals had nothing to do with your post but to posts that were made previous to yours in the thread. I'm sorry for the confusion. I should have made that clearer in my post. In fact, I went back and edited it to try to avoid any further confusion.

[kingjammy24]

tom: i may be wrong but i think chris was pointing at my post.

re: my post and troy's response

first, i think it's a great thing that MEARS has the character to respond, promptly and in full, to these things. perhaps one day lampson will grow a pair, come out from under his rock and follow their example. so hat's off to troy for not ducking things. to the issues:

"Dave Bushing and I purchased this item at the show at the 2007 National Convention in Cleveland...I authored both the MEARS LOO and the supporting article."

if the actual ownership was joint between troy and bushing then the fact that troy wrote the letter and not dave is irrelevant. if you have ownership in the item, you don't write the letter on it. very simple stuff to grasp, especially for an organization that has long trumpeted the importance of true-third party authentication. if you purchase an item and then you evaluate your own item after you've purchased it, how is that third-party authentication? how is it not a conflict of interest, which MEARS has also long railed against?

"Yes, an A10 grade was given, but the jersey and its merits were carefully chronicled in the detailed MEARS LOO and had nothing to do with Bushings ownership."

the jersey may, or may not, very well merit an A10. that's not the issue in the least. the issue solely centers around the inherit existance of bias in evaluating items you own, regardless of whether the grades are justified.

"What I do feel is that a high majority of active bidders and collectors do not have issues with MEARS members buying and evaluating their own items. This is illustrated by higher prices realized of MEARS evaluated items, even on the items owned and disclosed as being owned by Dave Bushing."

most don't have an issue with it and MEARS items sell for more. all completely irrelevant to the issue. what's right is right regardless of whether people have a problem with it or not. ethical behavior isn't a popularity or profit-making contest.

re: disclosure

i'll say it again: disclosure doesn't eliminate the conflict. it only informs people of the conflict.

"Authenticators John Taube and Lou Lampson are also dealers that have consigned to auction houses in the past. To my knowledge, they have yet to adopt the full disclosure practice mandated by MEARS, yet they never receive criticism."

well this i did not know. i always suspected lampson authenticated and consigned his own items into his buddies' auctions because hey that's just the sort of guy that lou is but with doug allen's dodgy responses and mastro's bizarre refusal to identify their authenticators, i never had any proof. hard to criticize without proof. if taube's consigning and authenticating his own items into auctions, then it's as much a conflict of interest as when bushing does it. taube once told me he didn't authenticate his own items, disclosure or not. i believed him.

"If the current crop of authenticators are still consigning items they own, the collecting public does not know as I know of no formal method of the identification of these items and the disclosure of their owners. Dave received the criticism, as he was the only person disclosing."

ok dave gets kudos for disclosing however holding him up against the current crop of authenticators sets the pretty bar low. who are we talking about here..lampson, coppola, cocchi? i'd name mastro's mystery team but doug keeps them a bigger secret than the colonel's original recipe. MEARS made its name by setting themselves to a higher standard. comparing dave to the current crop of authenticators seems to go against that.

"But, I guess if you do not disclose, how can anybody see the self applied target on your back? Next time you receive an item in auction that was authenticated as real or you get a PSA letter with a high grade, it might have been owned by Taube or Lampson, but you will never really know due to the lack of full disclosure policies for these individuals."

i'd like to see taube address this issue. anyway, troy the inherant problem in what you write above is that, due to various factors, folks have the expectation of the highest ethical standards from MEARS. clearly they don't have that same expectation from lampson. sure, in a way you've done it to yourself but i don't think you'd rather go skulking around the shadows and end up as nothing more than a reviled laughing stock.

rudy.

[gridman80]

Two cents here...and this is all this comment is probably really worth....but I have a high level of confidence that almost all of the items in the auction belong to one private collector who is dumping his [substantial] stash.

So the reason we saw many of these items show up in different auctions and now here is because that is how this person built his collection - buying from the various auction houses.

No comment/clue on the specifics of any of the items but I have to say that some of them are pretty fun to look at!

Thanks,

Tom

Looks to me as though some of this stuff may have come from Duke Hott's collection. He sold just about all of it to mastro a couple years back.

[G1X]

Now to the issue that most of us durene collectors don't like to think about. Not only were jerseys often recycled back in those days (they still are today, by the way), many were later reused in practice. Did the repairs come from game action or did they come from practice/camp use? So the next time you get all excited about those 17 repairs on your favorite durene jersey, you might want to think about how many resulted from a couple of years of practice and summer camp!

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

Always looking for Atlanta Falcons and WFL uniforms

[nyjetsfan14]

Now to the issue that most of us durene collectors don't like to think about. Not only were jerseys often recycled back in those days (they still are today, by the way), many were later reused in practice. Did the repairs come from game action or did they come from practice/camp use? So the next time you get all excited about those 17 repairs on your favorite durene jersey, you might want to think about how many resulted from a couple of years of practice and summer camp!

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

Always looking for Atlanta Falcons and WFL uniforms

Having had the distinct pleasure, privilege, and honor of communicating with/interviewing several of the old NY Titans and early AFL Jets players regarding many topics to include uniforms (RIP Roger Ellis and Thurlow Cooper - two great AFL players who were so incredibly gracious). As Mark points out, much of the early Titans gear was continuously recylced (literally hundreds of players went through the Titans franchise), used for practices, used for camp, THEN sent on to local high schools and/or leagues for use. One must remember many/most/all of the AFL teams early on were financially challenged (especially the NY Titans) and thus were desparately trying to save funds in every way imagineable, including with equipment. At the onset the NY Titans did not even employ a team Dr. According to the players I spoke to these uni's would typically be beat to all heck.