Hank Aaron HR Bat: Mastro and a tale of slippery provenance

[trsent]

p.s. i'll send this post via email as well.

rudy.

Rudy, post scripts generally come after your name, not prior to signing your letter.

[earlywynnfan]

Rudy, post scripts generally come after your name, not prior to signing your letter.

Holy Cow, Joel, how does this help the situation????????

What is the intent of this post, and please don't tell me you're trying to inject humor, since you and Rudy just had some kind of battle last week.

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

[encinorick]

Early: I only mentioned my situation because this practice continues and people like myself who aren't professionals end up with junk because of sweet talking guys like Doug. Witness the Hank Aaron bat.

Instead of simply saying "my bad" here's your money back, Doug said I was "outrageous," then pointed his finger at me and said "begone" just because I told him the truth.

But, the emotion comes from another source. I had the bat in my home office, it was a great source of pride for me to tell friends and family that I owned a Ruth bat. My son, who is 8 years old, loves baseball and he loved telling his friends about the bat. Last spring, his Encino Little League won the division and I showed the bat to all the guys and they thought it was cool. Then, in the fall, I had to tell them all it wasn't a Ruth bat, but just a piece of wood.

I still have the custom-built holder in my office, but it's empty. I keep it that way to remind myself and my experience and how careful you have to be with these auction house guys.

The truth (the whole truth and nothing but the truth) will set you free, Doug. Release the documents.

[trsent]

Holy Cow, Joel, how does this help the situation????????

What is the intent of this post, and please don't tell me you're trying to inject humor, since you and Rudy just had some kind of battle last week.

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

Ken, it kept me from harassing Rudy for once again having someone come on here and addressing their questions and Rudy continues to harass and bring up old history instead of thanking them for addressing their concerns and possibly working with them to address the concerns. Instead, Rudy wants them to go to hell for making the error in the first place. It looks to me like Rudy is making comments that would lead us to believe they intentionally committed fraud.

Doug Allen posted on this site, discussed issues and instead of trying to work with him, Rudy continued to harass. Rudy never is pleased with anyone's efforts to work with his concerns, he always wants them to fry for their past errors and then make references to make it appear the auction house was intentionally committing fraud.

No wonder time and time again, an auction house works with us then leaves the discussion forum due to excessive harassment and abuse.

I didn't want to post my true feelings that Rudy should work with the auction house willing to post on this site instead of bombarding them with harassing posts not giving them a chance to work with us.

Since you brought it up.

Maybe you should email the owners of this forum and ask for a job as moderator. I do not know if they are hiring, but you must desire that job.

Finally, I have people battle me on this forum. I never feel I battle with Rudy as he does often understand the stance of debate even though he often has to go off topic to prove his point, which leads me to my usual concerns about why the topics cannot be discussed without personal attacks?

[kingjammy24]

..and joel drags yet another thread down the terlit with irrelevant nonsense.

"Rudy continues to harass and bring up old history"

my post focused solely on the hank aaron bat currently up for auction.

"..instead of trying to work with him, Rudy continued to harass"

my post asked 3 pertinent questions:

1) did john taube really not disclose what he knew about the bat?
2) why do mastro's descriptions differ from their authenticators' letters?
3) why was there no research done on a bat signed by a man 40 yrs after
he used it?

i wasn't aware these questions constituted harassment.

"No wonder time and time again, an auction house works with us then leaves the discussion forum due to excessive harassment and abuse."

doug allen: "My reason for not wanting to post is simply a time constraint issue as with three auctions closing in the next three weeks I could never do it justice." Read it Joel. Then read it again. Then put your glasses on and read it a third time. If you still can't comprehend it, I can't help you anymore. i'm sure doug would appreciate you not putting words in his mouth.

rudy.

[trsent]

whether it's your statements on the winslow helmet, jordan shirt, or this aaron bat, there are always massive logical loopholes in what you say.

Rudy, I didn't put words in anyone's mouth.

The quote above is what I meant by you bringing up the past. You do not address issues at hand, you address items from the past that have no relevance on the topic of the Hank Aaron bat. You only posted about the Aaron bat? Then why bring up the Winslow helmet and Jordan shirt?

You can accuse me of ruining the forum. I just know that Doug Allen posted on this forum and you decided to attack him and I will post that if Ken doesn't appreciate my "post script" reply, which was me trying to avoid what irritated me about your reply to Doug Allen.

You only read what you believe is in your best interest to attack and abuse instead of working with those we so eagerly wish to add to the discussions here.

I know, you and your fans wish I wouldn't post so y'all can attack and attack and not have anyone to balance comments and concerns.

[kingjammy24]

an addendum has been posted to the auction:

"Please Note:
Additional research has suggested that we emphasize pertinent documentation relating to Aaron's later-added inscription on the bat:
This bat was originally sold as part of the famous Thomas C. Eakin collection in January 2002. A letter signed by Mr. Eakin accompanying the bat at that sale indicated that this very item was given to Mr. Eakin following the completion of a game at Crosley Field in 1969, a contest in which Mr. Eakin recalled that Hank Aaron hit a home run. Acting on this information, Bob Allen, Aaron's press agent at the time, sought verification from the Home Run King himself that this lumber was in fact wielded by Aaron at Crosley Field when he struck home run number 534. Upon establishing that Aaron hit three home runs at Crosley Field in 1969 (no. 534 in 7/15/1969, no. 548 in 9/5/1969, and no. 549 in 9/7/1969), Mr. Allen met with Aaron at the Pfister Hotel in Milwaukee, Wisconsin in November 2003. In a signed and notarized letter dated November 4, 2003, Mr. Allen attests, "This letter is to serve as authentication for Hank Aaron's career #534 Homerun bat. Hank Aaron verified and signed this bat on November 1st, 2003 at the Pfister Hotel in Milwaukee, WI. Mr. Hank Aaron personally signed and inscribed the bat, 'Hank Aaron, HR 534, 7/15/99.' I personally witnessed the signing. - Sincerely, (signed) Bob Allen." Consequently, while Aaron's inscription was added at a much later date, he himself confirmed that of the three possible dates on which this bat might have been employed, it was in fact used on July 15, 1969 when he struck home run number 534. Mastro Auctions acknowledges that questions can present themselves with respect to a bat that has not been in the possession of Hank Aaron since 1969; accordingly, we note the foregoing circumstances as pertinent information that relates to the bat's provenance."

so aaron gives away a bat in 1969. 34 yrs later, he's met a hotel by his press agent and asked in which of 3 possible games, in 1969, did he use this bat to hit #534. aaron then confirms that "it was in fact used on July 15, 1969". wow.

anyway, all of it seems to fly in the face of what occurred when REA did their research. as rob lifson told me: "..I even tracked down the original owner (the one who received the bat) to clarify that he did not get it right from Aaron..When I asked Aaron's office, I was told that he did not know...they said very clearly that Hank Aaron was not saying that this was the bat he hit home run #534 with, he was not saying it was not, he was saying that he did not and does not know."

rudy.

[ndevlin]

Rick, not to jump into what seems to be a one-sided heated battle, but I appear to be missing the continued venom. Did he misprepresent the bat? YES, and he admitted it. Did they refund your money? YES. Do you trust them? NO. Should we trust them? MAYBE.

I think he was right: take your money elsewhere. I guess I don't know what more you want Doug to do. And I guess I don't see what the point is of continuing this on a public forum.

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

Yep!

And you just said....

"The description stated explicitly that it was "game used and or a coach's bat used by the Great Bambino during the latter part of his career." The description also suggested that the bat was might "light" for the Bambno and it's length was also much shorter than any other Ruth bat, but that those oddities could be explained for this reason or that."

You knew what you were buying. Why would you even bother spending that amount of money on a bat that not only is light, but is much shorter than any other Ruth bat, then turn around and get mad about it?

Not only was it all that relevant to the Aaron bat, I dont know why you felt the need to bash someone publicly for an incident that happened a year ago, on something it seems you knew what you were buying.

Not trying to start an argument, it just doesnt make much sense.

[encinorick]

Rudy: Doug would simply say he was "overreaching" with the facts and leave it at that. Be advised Rudy, you too may be put on "double secret probation" if you don't stop, so be careful.

And stop reading those Mastro descriptions! They're there to entertain and bemuse and tell a good story, nothing more, nothing less.

[encinorick]

Nate: The purpose of the thread was to expose the problems with Mastro's descriptions. Rudy's presented evidence regarding the Aaron bat and I also had an experience with Mastro's description of the Ruth bat.

Read the description that Doug included in his post: "Babe Ruth 1934-1944 H&B Game Used Player/Coaches Bat."

The LOA from PSA/DNA was entitled "George 'Babe' Ruth Professional Model Bat (Post Career Bat), Labeling Period 1944-47."

Now is this something you'd say was "overreaching" or something else.

As I stated in my letter to Doug (please print it, Doug) I was a loyal customer of Mastro for 10 years. I bought and consigned items with them worth thousands of dollars. I'm not a pro, I do this strictly as a hobby to enjoy with my son. I depend on experts to tell me what is, or is not, real.

I trusted Doug...foolishly.

Again, if Doug had simply said, "my bad" here's your money back, I'd have no problem. But, he said I was "outrageous" when I questioned him, and then he closed my account to be spiteful.

A couple of years ago I won a Gretzky gu hockey stick from Lelands, I showed it to an expert who said it wasn't gu. I sent Lelands the letter and they returned my money. They even said they were sorry about it. I still buy stuff from them to this day.