Show us your ebay steals!!!

[karamaxjoe]

Tony,

I look at the Jeter bat this way; had you been at the actual game and Jeter used it, signed it and handed it to you, you'd still have a very hard time convincing the collecting world about its validity. The first thing I would have said to myself would be how in the hell am I going to prove this? Lets face it, you're talking about Jeter. Had the bat been signed by any other Yankee farm hand, nobody would have questioned it. It's just that when people claim they have a unique item from Arod, Jeter, Bonds or any other major superstar, the item will always be questioned before the collecting world buys into it. That fact will never change.

Honestly I hope you find the proof you're looking for. I would guess it's very possible Jeter used the bat, but again how do you prove it without a shadow of a doubt. If it is real, it really shouldn't be something you'd find kicking around on ebay.

Also Howard was not out of line in his comment. I firmly believe any rare item such as the Jeter bat will be heavily questioned before anyone believes it. That's the nature of the hobby we all participate in.

Again, good luck to you and I hope you find what you're looking for.

Mike

[3arod13]

Tony,

I look at the Jeter bat this way; had you been at the actual game and Jeter used it, signed it and handed it to you, you'd still have a very hard time convincing the collecting world about its validity. The first thing I would have said to myself would be how in the hell am I going to prove this? Lets face it, you're talking about Jeter. Had the bat been signed by any other Yankee farm hand, nobody would have questioned it. It's just that when people claim they have a unique item from Arod, Jeter, Bonds or any other major superstar, the item will always be questioned before the collecting world buys into it. That fact will never change.

Honestly I hope you find the proof you're looking for. I would guess it's very possible Jeter used the bat, but again how do you prove it without a shadow of a doubt. If it is real, it really shouldn't be something you'd find kicking around on ebay.

Also Howard was not out of line in his comment. I firmly believe any rare item such as the Jeter bat will be heavily questioned before anyone believes it. That's the nature of the hobby we all participate in.

Again, good luck to you and I hope you find what you're looking for.

Mike

Mike, well said, and I do understand this completely.

[3arod13]

Guys,

Thanks for all of your comments in reference to the Jeter bat. All are valid points and questions.

Let me just share the reason(s) why I am comfortable and satisifed with this Jeter bat:

* It's a GenericYANKEE Team Bat. A bat ordered and issued only to the Yankees organization. Better opportunity for Jeter to have used this bat, vice a generic PRO stock bat, which would be questioned even more. From what I have researched so far, Jeter didn't have minor league bats with his name on them. With that said, he would be using the Generic Yankee Team Bats, just like all other minor league players.

* Signed by Jeter around 1994 (signature is easy to identify, as Jeter only signed that signature around that timeframe. End of signature is the key).
This being around the time when he would have used it. If this was an early minor league bat, but had a later Jeter signature, then I would be more hesitant, because then there's that question of how could Jeter remember if he actually used that bat so many years later. By signing it around 1994, I feel much more comfortable.

* Bat came from Zane Burns. I'm fully aware of his knowledge and reputation in the hobby. However, it definately would be nice to know more specifics about how he obtained the bat. That might help answer some questions.

* To me, there is a better chance that Derek Jeter did use this bat, as he had more of an opportunity being in the Yankee organization back then.

Howard stated: "Once solid evidence can be produced (photo, baseball card, team program, video, etc.) of Jeter using a generic YANKEES Cooper bat in 1994, I'll be the first to agree with Tony that indeed, he secured a real ebay steal!"

Yes, this would be great if I am able to do this, and I will pursue this aggressively. However, chances are slim, as minor league coverage is very limited, compared to major league coverage.

Look at the amount of game used stuff out there of Mantle, DiMaggio, Ruth, Williams, Clemente, etc., that doesn't come with a photo, baseball card, team program, video, etc.. Comes only with an LOA from PSA, MEARS, etc. It is at this point, as collectors, we make the choice to either trust the authenticator and items. And we all know, there have been many mistakes.

I have provided all facts that I know to date about this bat. I will continue to be aggressive and pursue the authenticity of this bat, just as I did the Hoosier bat of past. At this point, it's in my collection and I'm satisifed with the bat.

As I find more information about this bat, I will keep you all posted.

Although there are times we may disagree with each other, you have to admit, this is a fun and exciting hobby. If we didn't have difference of opinions at times, it wouldn't give us other things to think about. Although we sometimes don't like what we here, it's good for us and the hobby.

Again, many thanks for your comments, concerns, and advice. I do appreciate it!

Now let's get this thread back to its original subject, "Show us your ebay steals!!!

Regards, Tony

[karamaxjoe]

Hey guys, if we're here to help each other we should be able to at least find a photo of Jeter at Columbus with a Cooper bat. It might not be the exact bat, but it would sure be a good start.

Mike

[kingjammy24]

"how do you prove it without a shadow of a doubt"

short of photomatches, how do you prove any item in this hobby beyond a shadow of a doubt? how do you prove your george bell or bobby thigpen jerseys beyond a shadow of a doubt? this hobby inherantly requires leaps of faith. i think what we're really talking about here is how big a leap is acceptable, not proving an item beyond a shadow of a doubt.

leaps of faith are reduced when positive characteristics are found. i don't believe taube can "prove without a shadow of a doubt" that all of the bats in his stock are gamers. i think he thinks they have a great chance of being gamers because they meet several criteria; length, weight, proper model, finish, player characteristics, legit use. when an item exhibits every single proper characteristic, then the leap of faith is relatively small (but it exists nonetheless). when an item exhibits very few characteristics, then the leap of faith is relatively large.

i think howard's comments were alluding to this leap of faith. noone's expecting tony to "prove" jeter used the bat. you can't prove most items were game-used. i think people, including myself and howard, are simply wondering how the bat can even be attributed to jeter specifically. given the bat, i think it's a valid question.

"Look at the amount of game used stuff out there of Mantle, DiMaggio, Ruth, Williams, Clemente, etc., that doesn't come with a photo, baseball card, team program, video, etc.. Comes only with an LOA from PSA, MEARS, etc. It is at this point, as collectors, we make the choice to either trust the authenticator and items."

but the thing is, those mears authentications and those items come with a ton of unique player characteristics. the question is what characteristics does this bat have that would strongly link it to jeter specifically?

"With that said, he would be using the Generic Yankee Team Bats, just like all other minor league players."

that's a lot of players who could've potentially used this bat. is there any uniform number on the knob?

you've dated the bat to 1994 via the autograph. that's fine and a decent start but how many players were there in the yankees farm system in 1994?

"there is a better chance that Derek Jeter did use this bat, as he had more of an opportunity being in the Yankee organization back then"

so were a million other players. why derek jeter specifically? just because he was in the minors in '94? why wasn't this bat used by his fellow teammates like scott romano or ray suplee or the dozens of other minor league teammates he had in '94?

at a minimum, does the bat conform to the length and weight that jeter was known to take around that time? LVS records would shed light on his first MLB order.

anyone at any yankee minor league facility could've grabbed a non-descript bat and had jeter sign it in '94. placing it in jeter's hands for actual game use would at a minimum involve establishing that the length and weight are correct and that the bat exhibits jeter's specific use characteristics. from what i can tell, the only characteristics that have been established are that it likely came from a yankees farm in 1994.

anyway, i think howard and mike's sentiments were valid and accurate, even though unpopular. everyone wants to strike the jackpot and when anyone else suggests they may not have done that, then they tend to get boo'd for raining on their parade.

that said tony, i do want to commend what i've seen as your approach to things in general. you're a research machine. a phone-calling, letter-writing, photo-finding machine who seems genuinely intent to substantiating his items as much as humanly possible and you certainly do it more than many i've seen. you look up boxscores, contact manufacturers, check old newspapers. you're a powerhouse. lampson can't even be bothered to check a roster. i do hope you find out the truth behind this bat of yours. until then though, what you've got on it so far doesn't place it in jeter's hands any more than any of the other players in the yankee farm system in 1994.

good luck,

rudy.

[joelsabi]

"

is there any uniform number on the knob?

for the minor league bat i have, having player characteristics like cleat marks went a long way for me. having a number on the knob that was similar to another bat I have of the player gave me the leap of faith.

i think its very difficult to photomatch a minor league item as photographers aren't paid to cover minor league games. you never see action shots on minor league cards also. most programs of players are posed shots too.

tony is doing his due diligence and i hope he will obtain the documentation he is looking for. tony is an asset to the GUU and his thirst for learning about this great hobby inspires me to question my collection standards as well.

[3arod13]

[quote=kingjammy24;78565tony, i do want to commend what i've seen as your approach to things in general. you're a research machine. a phone-calling, letter-writing, photo-finding machine who seems genuinely intent to substantiating his items as much as humanly possible and you certainly do it more than many i've seen. you look up boxscores, contact manufacturers, check old newspapers. you're a powerhouse. lampson can't even be bothered to check a roster. i do hope you find out the truth behind this bat of yours. until then though, what you've got on it so far doesn't place it in jeter's hands any more than any of the other players in the yankee farm system in 1994.

good luck,

rudy.[/quote]

Rudy,

Thanks! I appreciate and enjoy all comments you post. They are all very well thought out and detailed. I learn a lot from your knowledge, and how you respond to others. Kudos to you!

When I saw this bat, I knew the signature was 100% authentic from around 1994. I knew Jeter was in the minors in 1994. The bat was a Yankee team issued bat, with tremendous use. I knew with just the signature alone, I would still be happy paying $200 for it. However, as Rudy stated, I still hoped (like I believe we all do) I would hit the jackpot on this one.

Once I received the bat, my investigation started. I was able to talk to the person, Mr. Bruce Reed of Cookeville, TN, who owned the bat. After having the opportunity to talk to him, I found that he not only bought the bat from Zane Burns in 1996, but knew Zane well. Now at this point, I’m getting pretty excited. Zane Burns! I know who he is. A very knowledgeable and well-know game used dealer in the hobby. Mr. Reed explained to me how he bought many game used pieces from Zane, and how when Zane would come to town, they would spend time together. Mr. Reed came across as a very honest person. He also has an extensive game used collection.

Well, now I decided of course to email Zane to see if he could provide me with any information or history about this bat. Where he got it from and what he knew about it. So I emailed Zane. No reply. I then realized why.

Some of you may recall I posted a thread in the past about an issue I was having with Zane. I won’t go into details, but I will say it was entirely my fault (at the time, I was using the stupid side of my brain). Having been in this forum only a few months, I felt that I had obtained all this great knowledge about game used bats. Well, Zane had a bat that I questioned him about (Wasn’t familiar with who Zane was at this time). He provided me a response. However, I didn’t accept it and pressed the issue to the point I was pissing Zane off. He told me if I continued bothering him, he would take legal action. Well, instead of me using the good side of my brain (common sense) and backing off, I didn’t, because I didn’t care for him threatening me with legal action. With that said, the common sense side of my brain finally woke up and I backed off. But just a little too late, as you will see.

I emailed Zane again, apologizing for my past actions, and asked if he could please put the past incident aside and help with what he knows about the Jeter bat he sold to Mr. Reed. No reply.

I then emailed Zane a third time: “Mr. Burns, Sir, I do understand your anger towards me for my conduct and actions in the past. I was a jerk in how I acted and I take full responsibility for that. Something I truly regret. However, I can't change the past. I can only learn from it and ensure in the future I conduct myself in a better manner and don't let it happen again.
I would like to please ask if you could put that aside, at least only for the sake of the Jeter bat you sold to Bruce Reed, and the constant questioning the bat is receiving.
Although I have never dealt with you in the past, I am well aware of your outstanding reputation in the hobby. If there is anything you can offer (history) about the Jeter bat, I would truly appreciate it.
We all make mistakes in life, regret them, and work hard to ensure we don't make them again. I do regret the past.

There is a thread on GUU about the Jeter bat. Many have legitimate arguments about the bat and its authenticity. I do understand their concern, and many feel because it's Jeter, it's not authentic. Back in 1996, the Jeter bat wouldn't have been such a big deal as it is today, because Jeter was just a rookie then.
I hope you will consider putting your anger against me aside for the sake of this bat and the hobby. Regards, Tony”

No reply. Although I understand his anger towards me, I would have hoped for the sake of the Jeter bat, that he once owned and sold to Mr. Reed as a “Derek Jeter Game Used Minor League Signed Bat,” he would at least put his anger aside for this matter. I decided after 3 emails, and no replies, it’s just time to back off (see, I did learn something from that past experience).

At this point, I am now in quicksand at the waist and slowly sinking. I do have a few other things I’m working on that may come up with some answers. However, I believe Zane can easily provide some answers, since he owned and sold this bat, but chooses not to do so. Is his anger warranted? Sure. Does he have the right not to deal (sell) with me? Sure. Could he at least put aside his anger from the past and help? Sure.

I would like to end this with some good advice to all:

DON’T BURN BRIDGES! YOU NEVER KNOW WHEN YOU’LL NEED TO CROSS THAT BRIDGE!

I will continue to press on and won’t quit until I’ve exhausted all efforts!

Regards, Tony

[3arod13]

for the minor league bat i have, having player characteristics like cleat marks went a long way for me. having a number on the knob that was similar to another bat I have of the player gave me the leap of faith.

i think its very difficult to photomatch a minor league item as photographers aren't paid to cover minor league games. you never see action shots on minor league cards also. most programs of players are posed shots too.

tony is doing his due diligence and i hope he will obtain the documentation he is looking for. tony is an asset to the GUU and his thirst for learning about this great hobby inspires me to question my collection standards as well.

Joel,

Thanks for the kind words. You now got me thinking..."for the minor league bat i have, having player characteristics like cleat marks went a long way for me."

Are there specific Jeter characteristics that could be found on a minor league bat that can determine if he used it or not?

Tony

[cjmedina1]

Well I got a few so heres the first one.Its a 1986 Mark Mcgwire Sign Game used bat with a vintage signature.It was on Ebay for 5 minutes before I stumbled on it and used the buy it now.I got 10 emails from other buyers who wanted it also and wanted to pay double what I paid.My response was"I was born at night but not last night"

Carlie Medina III

[cjmedina1]

After reading about a Jeter bat I thought I would post my MAC minor league bat.This also came from ebay but the auction was cancealed and a deal was made off line.

This is a 1985 LS bat but was obtain at the First game of the 1986 season when the Hunsville Stars Played the Memphis Chicks.The person I got the bat from was the bat boy for the Memphis Chicks and was lucky enough to get this bat from MAC after the game.

The bat boy wrote a Letter on how he obtain this bat.He also included a Team Pitcher with him in it and a schedule of the season for the chicks.The bat also has a PSA letter...Hope you all enjoy

Carlie Medina III
carliemedinaiii@sbcglobal.net