Historic Auctions - '05 Matsui - Steiner issues

[kingjammy24]

The jersey:

http://www.historicauctions.com/inde...uctionid=31667

Hideki Matsui 2005 Game Used Jersey
Auction Number: 31667
Current Bid: $6,019.65
Start Time: Nov 18, 2005 10:00:00 AM
End Time: Jan 2, 2006 12:34:43 PM
Number of Bids: 8
LOA - Lou Lampson

The description makes no mention of any Steiner documentation, certificate, or hologram. Images of the jersey don't seem to show any Steiner hologram.

The Steiner response:
"...That jersey, in all likelihood, is NOT what it is being represented as. Yankees-Steiner Collectibles is the ONLY source for authentic game used and game issued Yankees jerseys. We had possession of the only 2005 Hideki Matsui game used jerseys. If the jersey does not come with the Yankees-Steiner hologram or letter of authenticity, then in all likelihood it is not real. .... And one other note, if the person who bought the jersey would like to find out if it is real or not, it can be sent in to Yankees-Steiner, where we will be able to locate the invisible coding that goes into each game used Yankees jersey."

Rudy.

[island_style]

The jersey:

http://www.historicauctions.com/inde...uctionid=31667

Hideki Matsui 2005 Game Used Jersey
Auction Number: 31667
Current Bid: $6,019.65
Start Time: Nov 18, 2005 10:00:00 AM
End Time: Jan 2, 2006 12:34:43 PM
Number of Bids: 8
LOA - Lou Lampson

The description makes no mention of any Steiner documentation, certificate, or hologram. Images of the jersey don't seem to show any Steiner hologram.

The Steiner response:
"...That jersey, in all likelihood, is NOT what it is being represented as. Yankees-Steiner Collectibles is the ONLY source for authentic game used and game issued Yankees jerseys. We had possession of the only 2005 Hideki Matsui game used jerseys. If the jersey does not come with the Yankees-Steiner hologram or letter of authenticity, then in all likelihood it is not real. .... And one other note, if the person who bought the jersey would like to find out if it is real or not, it can be sent in to Yankees-Steiner, where we will be able to locate the invisible coding that goes into each game used Yankees jersey."

Rudy.

Invisible coding? Had no idea that was part of Steiner's authentication process. Good to know, though, and this should help with verifying Yankees jerseys.

[suave1477]

Dear Members, I am extremely familiar with Steinersports items. As you can see I am currently selling 5 game used bats with Steiner COA'S on ebay. As far as this jersey is concerned I would have o agree with Steiner and vouch that the likelyhood of this jersey is not real. Is it possible sure it is but unlikely. Since 2005 Steiner has exclusive right to all the Yankees game used stuff. They also have exclusive right to whatever waqs stored in Yankees Stadiums basement pre 2005. It is possible someone could have stolen out the back door Matsuis's jersey but unlikely since it is all now documented and under security watch.

[Good Eye Sports]

As a collector/dealer dealing primarily with Japanese players items, I agree. I will not touch a Matsui jersey post 2004 that does not have Steiner paperwork. I have been consulted by many collectors regarding the Matsui jersey in question, and the first redflag was the space between the bottom of the rear tail of the jersey and the bottom of the '55' was much shorter than the one Steiner offered. I did not even have to use Professor Rudy's photomatching techniques to see this; it was obvious to the naked eye!

As many know, most and possibly all,(I have no proof all of them are but all of the ones I have handled were) pro-cut Majestic jerseys are longer than retail jerseys. The 0062 tagging is not the only difference, b/w retail and pro-cut hence the reason why Ichiro who wore all sorts of 46 and 48 from 2001-2004 but now wears a 44 in Majestic.

Goh

[kingjammy24]

A fake jersey may be among the least of your problems.

Purchasing/selling a 2005 Yankees "game used" jersey without Steiner certs may result in legal action from Steiner and/or the Yankees.

I'm surprised Lampson didn't warn Historic Auctions of these possible
ramifications.

Rudy.

[suave1477]

KingJammy why would lampson warn Historic Auctions he's the one who authenticated it!!!!!!!!

[Frank]

A fake jersey may be among the least of your problems.

Purchasing/selling a 2005 Yankees "game used" jersey without Steiner certs may result in legal action from Steiner and/or the Yankees.

I'm surprised Lampson didn't warn Historic Auctions of these possible
ramifications.

Rudy.

Rudy,

I have nothing against you, but your obvious dislike for a company coupled with a lack of 'Steiner documentation, certificate, or hologram' does not automatically make a jersey fake. Unless you have some additional proof, I don't see how you could arbitrarily claim this.

Additionally, I would love for someone to PLEASE tell me what legal action or recourse Steiner thinks they have if someone resells a Yankee's jersey without documentation, certificate or hologram. The transaction between Steiner and the purchaser of a jersey from them would only between those two parties and not between Steiner and a third party. If a jersey is resold, Steiner has no civil remedy or contractual agreement with the third party. If someone can provide additional information pertaining this, I would appreciate it.

Thanks.

Frank

[trsent]

Steiner has nothing to do with it, whoever said that was wrong.

Now, if you mess with The New York Yankees, that is a whole new can of worms. I believe The Yankees have had eBay auctions ended for game used jerseys without proper documentation.

[kingjammy24]

Hi Frank,

Let me address all of your issues one by one:

- I have no dislike, obvious or otherwise, for Historic Auctions. The truth is I have absolutely no experience whatsoever in dealing with Historic Auctions, as such I have no reason to either dislike or like them. I haven't a clue as to how you came to this conclusion.

- Regarding the Matsui's legitimacy: As you know, the Yankees and Steiner entered into a formal contract in 2005. Roughly stated, this agreement provides "exclusive access" to game-worn and game-issued equipment from the Yankees to Steiner. Steiner has expressly and specifically claimed to have taken possession of all of Matsui's 2005 game-used jerseys. While the odds are that this is entirely true, I recognize that there is a slight possibility that a game-worn Matsui was somehow snuck out the back door. In other words, while possible, it is unlikely that an '05 Matsui without any Steiner docs is legit. It is not simply me claiming this, it's Steiner as well. For me to infer that when a jersey shows up and has not come from a company that has exclusive access to this jersey, that this jersey may not be legit is hardly "arbitrary". My sentiments were a reflection of Steiner's comments regarding this specific jersey.

- Regarding your comments about the legal recourse available to Steiner in this case: I'm not a lawyer, nor do I pretend to be one. Without getting into details, in terms of the possible legal action in this case, I was simply relaying information given to me by Steiner. If you're curious as to the intimate and specific details of their possible recourse, I would suggest that the best person to ask would be them.

Additionally, I have heard first hand accounts of people who have faced legal action from the Yankees for selling certain Yankee items. I'm unaware of all of the specific legalities which comprise the Yankees/Steiner contract. However, given the action of the Yankees in the past in this area, it would seem likely that a sale such as this Matsui jersey may incur "legal issues". Whether those issues are specifically brought by Steiner or the Yankees, I'm unsure. I specifically mentioned Steiner in my post because, as I said earlier, I was simply relaying what they told me in very certain terms.

Rudy.

[kingjammy24]

Joel,

Steiner said it. They may be wrong.

I suppose I assumed that Steiner had a better idea of their legal recourse
than you or I or Frank.

An idea: perhaps, according to the contract, Steiner is granted full, legal ownership of the jerseys after the season is over so any jersey that is "snuck out" is legally the property of Steiner? Just a thought.

Rudy.