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View Full Version : Alarming news about Mastro's UNC Jordan shirt



kingjammy24
08-09-2007, 03:09 PM
in their last auction, Mastro sold a "Michael Jordan Early 1980s University of North Carolina Shooting Shirt" for $11,000. the lot can still be seen here:
http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:1eSZqI6_3P0J:www.mastroauction.com/index.cfm%3Faction%3DDisplayContent%26ContentName% 3DLot%2520Information%26LotIndex%3D72902%26LastLot Listing%3DCurrent%2520Auction+mastro+jordan+auctio ns&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

mastro hired mears to authenticate the jersey. mears' judgement was that the shirt was "unable to authenticate" due to a name change on the back.
despite hiring mears for their authentication on the shirt, mastro never mentioned mears' findings. as well, a forum member contacted the UNC basketball office and was told by the equipment manager that "jordan has his shooting shirt". mastro posted an authentication by lou lampson. the lampson authentication fails to mention any name change. mastro's ad stated "this is one of the very few surviving North Carolina Jordan artifacts that can clearly be deemed authentic."

recently, a forum member contacted me saying that he had sold a ranzino smith shooting shirt to eric inselberg of nyc. the forum member was concerned because mastro's "jordan" shooting shirt had some striking similarities to the smith shooting shirt he sold to eric inselberg. namely, both shirts seem to have identical stains on the front and on the right sleeve. as well, the "N" (of "UNC") patch on the front bears identical pucker marks on both shirts.

here are both shirts. the following post shows the images enhanced for the sole purpose of showing the stains more clearly.

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/993/jordan2tq4.jpg


rudy.

kingjammy24
08-09-2007, 03:12 PM
both shirts, enhanced to make the stains more evident:

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/7953/jordan4of4.jpg

rudy.

both-teams-played-hard
08-09-2007, 03:32 PM
I agree that the stains match and this is more than a coincedence. Since MEARS examined this jersey, I wonder if anyone recognized a tag change. The shirt originally had a Sand Knit MacGregor tag, then was changed to Sand Knit Medalist (to match the Jordan era tagging).

worldchamps
08-09-2007, 03:47 PM
Rudy,

thanks for the effort you are putting into this. I have been trying to do research on the Gervin...if you look at previous posts the last 2 they have had, have been WAY OFF. To me this one looks good, but I need more concrete evidence. Any help would be appreciated.

What I have noticed on other pictures is the Spur in the letter U iw way more to the left and not lined up as much with the first 4 and in most pics, the S and S in Spurs goes into the Black sides on the jersey.

I actually do want to bid on this, or one eventually....any thoughts???

Please help anymore?

Bill

both-teams-played-hard
08-13-2007, 05:45 PM
MEARS used a light table to discover the name change. MEARS' research was not disclosed by Mastro in the auction description. Lou Lampson wrote the LOA. If Lampson and his boys call him an "expert", why didn't he use a light table...or his eyes? What does the hobby expect of its authenticators? It seems like MEARS did everything that could be expected. They ruled the Jordan warm up as "unable to authenticate". Lou Lampson sold out. I understand Lou knows Raisin/Cinnamon/cream cheese bagels, Zapruder films, and grassy knolls...but it seems Lou doesn't know jack about recognizing a forgery.

lund6771
08-13-2007, 09:18 PM
Rudy...

Great job spotting this...it makes me sick to my stomach seeing this...I saw this warm up at the National and thought it was awesome...I was gonna have a friend bid on it for me...thank goodness that I didn't

I think what Mastro did was extremely disgusting...Mears finds issues with it, so they send it to Lampson?...the same guy who would authenticate 20 Shrouds of Turin in the same month?

at least GFC pulled their Worthy UNC when issues were made, Mastro seems like they're being extremely deceptive...what a shame!!!

Eric
08-15-2007, 11:45 AM
Hello everyone,

I received some emails from Doug Allen at Mastro. He says he did not receive my initial inquiry about the Jordan shirt. (On August 1st I had emailed him to ask if this was the same shirt that mears had deemed "unable to authenticate." and had not heard back)

Mr. Allen gave me his cell number in case I need to get in touch with him in the future, which I appreciate. He wanted to talk to me on the phone about the situation, but I am out of the country and it would be a pretty difficult and expensive venture.

He asked me to share the following information with the forum. The next part is the email from Doug Allen
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric,
I am sorry but I never got your e-mail on August 1st. In the future if something like this arises so close to the end of one of my auctions don't hesitate to call me on my cell which is listed below.

Just to catch you up below is an e-mail I sent to Troy Kinunen at MEARS. Feel free to share this with your constituency. They are currently in possession of the shirt and performing a more detailed examination of it. I will be happy to share their ultimate findings.

If you have any additional questions don't hesitate to contact me.

Regards,
Doug
(cell number removed for privacy)
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Allen
To: Troy Kinunen (troy@mearsonline.com)
Subject: Jordan Shooting Shirt

Troy,

I just wanted to send you an e-mail to confirm what transpired as it relates to the Jordan shooting shirt in our live auction. The primary reason I am doing this is to ensure this never happens in the future!

Let me get to the punchline first. I have notified the winning bidder that he does not have to pay for the lot and we will be cancelling the sale due to authenticity concerns.

As you are aware this was one of the last items we took in for the live auction and were at the deadline when you confirmed you had to take it back with you to review it more carefully. I had gotten the message from my guys that you "were not comfortable signing off on it" so I told them to go ahead and run it with the Lou Lampson letter since he was comfortable issuing an LOA on the shirt. Unfortunately we never received your "letter" which explained the details of the name change and the reason you were not comfortable apining on the shirt. If I had known this I would have immediately pulled it from the auction. The first time I had been informed about potential issues with the shirt was on August 2nd when a reporter inquired about the letter you issued. At the time I was not aware a letter detailing findings had been issued and I notified him of that fact. When I got back to the office after the National I was finally able to review your letter and review the concerns expressed on the Game Used Forum.

I am really sorry we did not engage in any direct conversations about this item earlier and I will take the blame for what was effectively a lack of attention to this matter. I mistakingly thought your lack of comfort was due to the fact that you were not comfortable with writing letters on items that fall so far outside of the mainstream as opposed to substantive concerns about the actual item.

Now where we go from here (1) I have a person on my staff who will monitor various game used forums to make sure we are more attentive to issues that arise regarding items in our auction. (2) If I ever choose to sell a piece of game used equipment not authenticated by MEARS (excluding of course Football Helmets and Hockey which you do not cover) I will fully disclose your findings so the buyer understands all angles before bidding.

Finally, I have sent you the Jordan shooting shirt. I want you to go through it with a fine tooth comb. Take it apart if you have to….I will take care of the consignor. If in fact the number and tagging was changed it was a very professional job and we need to work together to make sure this can be identified in the future.

I look forward to your feedback.

Sincerely,
Doug Allen
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I then followed up with some questions which Mr. Allen was quick to answer. Here is the email exchange

From: ecky3@aol.com [mailto:ecky3@aol.com]
Sent: Tue 8/14/2007 5:50 PM
To: Doug Allen
Cc:
Subject: Re: Jordan Shooting Shirt

Doug
Thanks for the email. A couple of things- what does it make you think about lou lampson that he didn't pick up on something like a name change? Will it affect anything regarding your use of lou? Did lou have anything to say about this?
Also- the person you bought the "jordan" shirt from- what are you going to do about him if anything. How much of your auction listings come from him.
I look forward to your answers.
(section removed) Was (the person who bought the Jordan shirt) upset that he bought something which was signed off by your authenticator which had such a big problem?
And lastly, when mears deemed the shirt "unable to authenticate" how did they communicate that to you?
Thanks
Eric
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric,

Regarding the authenticators findings or lack thereof I am going to work closely with both MEARs and Lou Lampson over the next week or so to see what was done to the jersey and ascertain why it wasn't identified in the initial review. I will be totally transparent about these findings when they are available. Until then I don't want to comment.

The person who consigned the Jordan shirt gave us a few things in 2003 and nothing since then. It is my opinion that he purchased the shirt thinking it was good. That is all I am at liberty to say about him.

MEARS issued the unable to authenticate letter but unfortunately this message was verbally communicated and we never physically got the letter. I am not blaming them it was our responsibility to seek out the letter and the findings therein.

All the best,
Doug
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug
(section removed)
Can you answer another question about lampson? Did he look at the jordan
shirt on a light table. Sounds like he did not or he would have seen the
name change. Given how he certified a shirt with a huge problem, I think
it makes him look pretty bad and unfortunately hurts buyers' confidence
in other auction items with his name. Any chance you can get him to
answer a few questions about his authentication technique? I have called
and emailed him many times and he has never gotten back to me.
Did you buy the jordan shirt directly from eric inselberg? Thanks Eric
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey Eric,

(section removed)

I can't respond to how Lou authenticates. I will talk to him about
opening the lines of communication.

Finally, we did not "buy" the shirt from anyone it was consigned and not
by eric insulberg....he is not even on our database.

Regards,
Doug
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug
(section removed)
If inselberg did not consign it- is it worth finding out from the consignor where he got it from- to determine where along the way it got changed from a ranzino smith shirt to a michael jordan shirt? Have you spoken to the consignor about the problem with his item? Best, Eric
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(From Doug Allen)
I have discussed with consignor and he is being very reasonable about
letting me do whatever I have to do.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's the update.
Thanks,
Eric

otismalibu
08-15-2007, 01:58 PM
I had gotten the message from my guys that you "were not comfortable signing off on it" so I told them to go ahead and run it with the Lou Lampson letter since he was comfortable issuing an LOA on the shirt.

This is certainly the most believable part of the story.

If something is not 100% Authentic, there's only one man to call.

rose14
08-15-2007, 03:32 PM
It's nice to see that Doug Allen is responding but don't bet for one minute that he is just doing it to be nice. He is trying to save face for Mastros since they got caught red handed still selling a shirt that was rejected by a leading authenticator that actually takes the time to research their items. It sure is convenient for Mastros to have Lou Lampson in their back pocket when things like this happen so he can just sign off on anything and Mastros doesn't have to think twice in selling something with his letter?

What I would like to see is Doug to come on here and explain why Mastros still decided to sell the "Darrell Griffith Louisville Cardinals game used jersey" that was in their October 2006 auction after I provided proof from Griffith himself and the University of Louisville to Brian Marren with Mastros and to Lou Lampson that U of L wore knit jerseys during Griffith's tenure and did not start wearing the mesh until approximately 3 years later. The color of the numbers and lettering were even wrong but Lou still signed off on it and Mastros still sold it even though they were given this information well before their auction closed.

I'm not looking to start a fight but I think the CEO of a reputable company should have concerns and explain their actions when they are selling fake items to their valued customers.

Eric
08-15-2007, 04:49 PM
Rose14

Please contact me at ecky3@aol.com. I'd like to speak with you about a hobby issue
Thanks
Eric

earlywynnfan
08-15-2007, 05:43 PM
Eric,

Since you have Doug Allen's phone number, when you get back into town, why not call him and ask him to explain that FB helmet issue you had in the spring? The one where they changed the facebar and didn't tell anyone?

Ken

Eric
08-15-2007, 05:55 PM
Ken-

I already spoke to Doug via email many times about that issue with the winslow helmet.

Eric

Eric
08-19-2007, 08:17 AM
The story has been picked up by the New York Daily News. Much of the investigation is credited to this site. Here is a link to the piece.

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=10331

kingjammy24
08-20-2007, 01:49 AM
rose14,

given doug allen's disregard of the issues pertaining to the darrell griffith jersey (see: http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=5233 ) , i wonder if his actions and apologies for this jordan debacle were really motivated by the attention from the ny daily news and the fbi. after all, on the griffith jersey allen refused to go against lou's opinion regardless of the overwhelming evidence. however, with the jordan shirt doug had no problem immediately disregarding lou's opinion. is doug's support of lou dependent on whether the fbi gets involved?

ever since sammy davis passed on, it's been a long time since i've seen a song and dance this good.

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/9586/jerseyslk5.jpg

rudy.

both-teams-played-hard
08-20-2007, 02:03 AM
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/9586/jerseyslk5.jpg

Nice Work! I'll take that as a challenge...

rose14
08-20-2007, 07:53 AM
King, I am glad this is getting attention and maybe Mastros will put integrity over the all mighty dollar and finally quit using Lou Lampson. In regards to the Louisville Griffith jersey, I never spoke with Doug Allen as all of my converstations were with Brian Marren.

What I am mistified about is Doug Allen's response on why MEARS would not sign off on the Jordan shooting shirt, "I mistakingly thought your lack of comfort was due to the fact that you were not comfortable with writing letters on items that fall so far outside of the mainstream as opposed to substantive concerns about the actual item" What the hell is that? It's funny that Doug was still not aware of this even though Dave Bushing and Troy Kinunen sat and ate at the same table with him and Bill Mastro at the live auction before the auction even started. I just wonder what was going through Troy and Dave's mind while they sat in the back of the balcony at the House of Blues while the fake Jordan jersey was selling for $11,000.

grandpahoo
08-21-2007, 02:22 AM
The amount of ass-covering taking place relating to this jersey is awesome.

34swtns
08-21-2007, 12:40 PM
Makes you wonder where they came up with the vintage material for the numbers, etc. There are some pretty crafty forgers out there.

Off the subject but, grandpahoo, I got your message and it appears that you're not set up to receive replies. In any event, the Herman Moore gamer you inquired about was sold last year. Sorry, but keep looking, they're out there!

yankees159
08-21-2007, 08:21 PM
Fantastic work by GUU! My question is why would anyone still do business with Mastronet? I know I am boycotting them, that's the only way things are going to change.

TJ

camarokids
08-23-2007, 04:07 PM
I had to put my boots on while reading the threads about this forgery and the explanation on NOT receiving MEARS letter .

kingjammy24
08-23-2007, 04:33 PM
the jordan auction began on 07/23 and ended on 08/03.

troy: "The next day or so, which was approximately June 27th, I recall speaking with Doug Allen via phone. At that point I told him I was 100% convinced that there had been a name change and told him so. I also believe at that point Doug asked me if the jersey could have been good. I do not remember exactly how I replied, but I said something to the effect, that "there is definitely a name change, but I will continue researching it to see if it was a vintage name change."

doug: "The first time I had been informed about potential issues with the shirt was on August 2nd"

---- according to troy, through the entire month of july, doug allen was aware that the shirt had had a name change.

doug: "Unfortunately we never received your "letter" which explained the details of the name change and the reason you were not comfortable apining on the shirt. If I had known this I would have immediately pulled it from the auction.

---- again, doug knew about the name change for the entire month of july via to a phone call from troy.

doug: "I had gotten the message from my guys that you "were not comfortable signing off on it" so I told them to go ahead and run it with the Lou Lampson letter.."

---- how did mastro's guys know to tell doug that mears wasn't signing off on it if they "never received the letter"? did mears call mastro and tell them? if so, then upon learning that mears wouldn't be signing off, why did mastro not immediately ask why? when doug got the message that one of his items wouldn't be getting a mears letter, he never asked why? the lack of a mears signoff on the ted williams jersey was such a huge deal to doug that he was compelled to explain it in detail over several paragraphs. yet on the jordan shirt he doesn't receive a mears signoff and doesn't even bother to inquire as to the reasons?

doug: "I mistakingly thought your lack of comfort was due to the fact that you were not comfortable with writing letters on items that fall so far outside of the mainstream as opposed to substantive concerns about the actual item."

---- the specific reason for mears' lack of comfort was relayed to directly to doug from troy on approx june 27.

troy: "That is the last time I recall specifically speaking with Doug about the jersey. Some more time passed and I did not uncover any more additional information on the jersey and published the final Letter of Opinion which deemed the item as unable to authenticate. Approximately 10 days before the live auction all letters were produced including the unable to authenticate Jordan warm-up jacket LOO and provided to Mastro Auctions."

---- mastro received all of the other mears letters except for the jordan letter which mysteriously disappeared? was the jordan letter sent all by itself in a separate shipment? eric's email to doug was never received and neither was the mears letter. astonishing that these 2 things which would've prematurely ended an $11k auction somehow vanished.

when the auction began in july, i am curious why mears not did immediately notice that the jordan letter that they had sent to mastro was not posted with the shirt? if the letter was sent out prior to the start of the auction and 3 days into the auction it's still not posted, how did mears not immediately contact mastro and ask them why the letter isn't posted? after all, according to mears, it's a stipulation of their auction house contract that the auction house post any and all LOOs that they issue on an item. from day 1 mastro didn't do this on the jordan item and mears never noticed and picked up the phone to ask why the letter wasn't posted/why the contract has been breached?

--------------------------------------------------------------------

see more here: http://www.network54.com/Forum/471414/message/1187896206/Jordan+UNC+Jacket+and+operational+procedures

doug's disregard on the griffith jersey issue combined with the illogical gaps in his story on the jordan shirt make me personally think that had the ny daily news and fbi not gotten involved, the jordan sale would've been executed to completion.

doug was pretty tightlipped with eric on the issue of who really owned the winslow helmet but when the jordan issue was picked up by the daily news and fbi, all of a sudden doug does the "i'm very concerned!" two-step and gives eric his cell number? where was this concern, diligence and chattiness on the griffith jersey and winslow helmet? apparently doug only likes to dance in the spotlight.

after reading "The Card" it's apparent to me why doug is such a great fit for mastro. bill must be beaming at his protege. both of them seem to have a real passion for "maximizing grades" and "preparing items". between the two of them though, i'm guessing doug's got better dance moves.

rudy.

Eric
08-23-2007, 06:39 PM
I received a response from Doug Allen regarding this matter. Here is the entire text of the email printed here with Doug's permission.


Eric,

In response to your inquiry I do not recall having a phone conversation with Troy regarding this shirt any time prior to the auction. I do recall Eric on my staff communicating the fact that MEARS was not comfortable authenticating the shirt but I don't remember a direct conversation with Troy.

Troy's post stated "This may have led to the decision to have Lou Lampson offer his opinion on the jersey." This is absolutely not the case. Most vintage basketball and football we auction also include an LOA from Lou Lampson as evidenced by the current auction. Lampson authenticated the shirt approximately one week prior to MEARS coming in to authenticate as they perform this work independently. That being said it is interesting to note that the high bidder on the item would actually have still purchased it with MEARS "unable to authenticate" letter as he indicated it would not be unusual for a college jersey to have a name change. This didn't bother the bidder. The primary issue for this shirt was the fact that the #2 on the jersey appears to have been altered. Unfortunately this alteration was not identified by Lampson or MEARS…I detected it after I returned from the National when I personally examined the numbers on a light table. I then informed MEARS of the fact that it was much more than a presumed name change, which could have been vintage. I then turned the jersey over to MEARS for further examination.

I have copied Troy on this as I have the utmost respect for the work they do and that is why I returned the shirt to them for further examination.

I trust this is responsive to your question.

Regards,
Doug

earlywynnfan
08-23-2007, 07:27 PM
See everybody!! We've been piling on Doug, and here, he saved the day!!


Ken

both-teams-played-hard
08-23-2007, 07:37 PM
Eric
Thanks for posting the e-mail.
As I've posted before: Carolina players were allowed to keep their jerseys and warm ups at season's end. Recycling was not done. The UNC equipment manager said that Michael still has his shooting shirt. Why does the jersey need to be re-examined? This forum as already PROVEN the infamous Jordan to be a fake, phony, fabricated, forgery. All that needs to be debated is, "who will do the honor of destroying this jersey?" or better yet, "who will restore this jersey back to number '33' with 'S-M-I-T-H' on the back?"
I'm glad someone from Mastro responded. Its funny how people want to do so much research, AFTER the FBI comes knockin'.

kingjammy24
08-24-2007, 02:28 AM
"..it is interesting to note that the high bidder on the item would actually have still purchased it with MEARS "unable to authenticate" letter as he indicated it would not be unusual for a college jersey to have a name change. This didn't bother the bidder."

i'm assuming the bidder indicated this without being told that UNC's equipment manager stated shirts weren't recycled and that jordan has his shooting shirt? when bidders lack crucial information, they're hardly able to make an informed decision. i'm unsure what doug is trying to point out here; that the bidder was ill-informed or that he almost managed to sell the shirt. had the bidder gone through with the purchase, this would all be a bigger mess and there'd be one unhappy bidder so why is doug painting a positive light around the fact that he almost sold it to an ill-informed bidder?

would it have bothered the bidder to see a comparison of the stains on the mastro shirt and on jim reed's shirt thereby showing them to be the same shirt? why not give them all of the evidence, not just half, and then see if they're still interested?

"The primary issue for this shirt was the fact that the #2 on the jersey appears to have been altered."

what about the fact that..you know..the shirt is a perfect match for jim reed's ranzino smith shirt? is that an issue? after all, the number change could theoretically be explained using the same logic as the name change: it wouldn't be unusual for a college jersey. on the other hand, how could you possibly explain the identical stains? alterations aren't always detectable. if the alterations on this job wouldn't have been detectable, the stains alone would've proven the case.

anyway, aside from missing the biggest piece to this puzzle, kudos to doug allen for his otherwise superb investigative work and for jumping into action once the daily news and fbi picked up the story. kudos also to lampson for not noticing any alterations on an $11,000 piece when apparently both his employer and his competitor did. as always, nice to see lou taking his job seriously.

time for me to sit back and enjoy the hilarity of watching doug and troy hit each other with giant foam mallets.

rudy.

Eric
08-27-2007, 11:25 AM
I asked Doug Allen the following question

Doug-

You mentioned that the buyer was comfortable buying the Jordan shirt even after they were told (after the auction) that there was a name change. Is there any way I could send a few questions to the buyer?
Eric
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
He sent me this answer, and I'm posting it here with his permission


Hey Eric,

Let me relay my conversation with the bidder.

Our bidder knows Ken Crowder, the equipment manager Cynthia Somers referred to in her e-mail correspondence. When the bidder heard about the name change he still wanted to show it to Ken as the bidder's recollection was that the JV team did have warm ups and in his own collection he has late 70's early 80's jerseys that were originally varsity shirts that were later changed to generic "Tarheels" for JV use. It was on this basis he thought a vintage name change was possible. Obvioulsy this did not go far once we confirmed other problems with the shirt.

Regards,
Doug

Moustache Gang
08-27-2007, 12:58 PM
Rudi,

If you get a chance can you send me an email. I would like to talk to you on a couple of issues.

Thanks always for your commentary as it is always very insightful.

Mark
www.weimerskirch95@aol.com (http://www.weimerskirch95@aol.com)

warheel
08-28-2007, 06:26 PM
Not to hijack the thread, but seeing the "SMITH 33" jersey brought back some memories. I went to Carolina and Ranzino Smith used to live above me his senior year. I worked with the football team and we hung out some, even took a class together.

The class was "Classics" and we were supposed to study Greek and Roman stuff. Z and I went to class every day, but didn't bother to do the reading. Test day comes and 90% of the test is from the reading. We both made single digits on the test, and ended up dropping the class.

Sorry for the diversion...

Eric
09-04-2007, 08:04 PM
I emailed with Doug Allen today who said I can submit some questions to the buyer of the doctored Michael Jordan jersey.

I will be sending them to Doug tonight and will post the responses when I get them.

Eric

Eric
09-05-2007, 08:36 AM
Here is the email I sent to Doug Allen. He has said he would pass some questions along to the buyer of the Michael Jordan shooting shirt. Thanks to Doug for his help here. I will post the responses when I get them.
Eric

Doug-

Thanks for agreeing to pass the following questions along to the buyer of the Jordan shooting shirt.


To the buyer-
Thank you for taking the time to address this situation. Your responses to these questions will help hobbyists learn from this situation. The questions are below. If you would like to contact me directly about any of this, you can email me at ecky3@aol.com (ecky3@aol.com)
Thanks
Eric Stangel
administrator, game used forum

1) Before the Mastro auction, what was your experience with collecting Jordan items or North Carolina items? Do you have an extensive collection?

2) Had you seen the Jordan shirt in person at the National before bidding, or did you base your knowledge on seeing the photos in the catalog and reading the auction description?

3) Did you bid in person or on the phone?

4) What kind of research had you done before placing the winning bid on the shooting shirt?

5) At what point did you learn the shirt had issues (name change, mears failure to authenticate letter)

6) When you found out there were questions about the shooting shirt (stains that match a Ranzino shooting shirt and evidence of a name change) what was your response?

7) Did it concern you at all that the shirt went up for auction without a mears letter?

8) Knowing what you know now, what do you think about the fact that mears deemed it unable to authenticate and Lou Lampson wrote a letter on it without even noting a name change?

9) How do you feel about the whole process? What if anything would you change?

10) Doug Allen said you do not have to pay for the Jordan shirt and it has been sent to MEARS for more research. Once MEARS does the extensive work on it, will you have the option to buy the shirt back? If so, what do you plan to do with it?

11) Doug said "...it is interesting to note that the high bidder on the item would actually have still purchased it with MEARS "unable to authenticate" letter as he indicated it would not be unusual for a college jersey to have a name change. This didn't bother the bidder."
Can you elaborate on this?

Thanks for taking the time here. It's going to help a lot of people.

Eric
09-12-2007, 08:50 AM
I have been getting emails from people asking if Doug sent me the answers to the questions for the Jordan buyer.

He hasn't yet. I followed up with him yesterday and will let everyone know what happens.

Thanks
Eric

Eric
09-20-2007, 11:15 PM
Doug Allen was nice enough to send me the answers to the questions for the buyer of the Michael Jordan shooting shirt. Here's what he said...

Eric,

Sorry for the delay....here are the responses based on conversations with the buyer.

Regards,
Doug

1) Before the Mastro auction, what was your experience with collecting Jordan items or North Carolina items? Do you have an extensive collection? - I have an extensive collection of early North Carolina items.
2) Had you seen the Jordan shirt in person at the National before bidding, or did you base your knowledge on seeing the photos in the catalog and reading the auction description? I have never seen the item in person.

3) Did you bid in person or on the phone? I bid via the phone as I was not at the National

4) What kind of research had you done before placing the winning bid on the shooting shirt? Reviewed description and images.

5) At what point did you learn the shirt had issues (name change, mears failure to authenticate letter) Doug Allen called me the week after the auction and explained in detail the findings of MEARS and subsequently he called me back after he determined that the in addition to the name the number "2" had also been changed.

6) When you found out there were questions about the shooting shirt (stains that match a Ranzino shooting shirt and evidence of a name change) what was your response? No specific response.

7) Did it concern you at all that the shirt went up for auction without a mears letter? No. I did not consider MEARS an authority on vintage game used college material.

8) Knowing what you know now, what do you think about the fact that mears deemed it unable to authenticate and Lou Lampson wrote a letter on it without even noting a name change? I was more surprised that neither MEARS or Lampson saw the number change. As indicated to Doug Allen the name change is not what concerned me. I thought that "acceptable" for an early college shirt.

9) How do you feel about the whole process? What if anything would you change? I am disappointed that the shirt is not real as I would have loved to add it to my collection. I am glad Mastro Auctions did the right thing and cancelled the sale.

10) Doug Allen said you do not have to pay for the Jordan shirt and it has been sent to MEARS for more research. Once MEARS does the extensive work on it, will you have the option to buy the shirt back? If so, what do you plan to do with it? This has never been discussed. Doug Allen indicated the shirt would be destroyed.

11) Doug said "...it is interesting to note that the high bidder on the item would actually have still purchased it with MEARS "unable to authenticate" letter as he indicated it would not be unusual for a college jersey to have a name change. This didn't bother the bidder."
Can you elaborate on this? I know the UNC equipment manager who indicated it was not unusual to change names in order for pieces like this to be reused. The name change in and of it self would not be the kiss of death for this piece.

both-teams-played-hard
09-21-2007, 12:23 AM
7) Did it concern you at all that the shirt went up for auction without a mears letter? No. I did not consider MEARS an authority on vintage game used college material.

In this matter, I think knowing how to use a light table is more valuable than knowledge of college basketball jerseys.
Maybe now there is one less collector who is going to "take the word" from an authenticator or auction house. I would like to hear about this guy's UNC collection. Wish he'd join the forum!

jdr3
09-21-2007, 06:58 AM
These answers read like they were scripted, or ghost written. If the "High Bidder" talked to the equipment manager at UNC, then why didn't the equipment manager tell him jordan had his shooting shirt like he told the Daily News? Also, the equipment manager would have told him that it is a long standing tradition that ACC schools give each player their uniforms when they leave their particular school. How do you think I was able to buy Ranzino Smith's uniforms? And that schlock qoute "9) How do you feel about the whole process? What if anything would you change? I am disappointed that the shirt is not real as I would have loved to add it to my collection. I am glad Mastro Auctions did the right thing and cancelled the sale." If someone tried to rip me off by covering up a major flaw in a 5 digit purchase I would not be say they were doing "the right thing." The "High Bidder" comes accross like an damn fool when reading the answers Mastro provided. He has a collection of "early Carolina items"? Define early. Carolina was a national power long before Jordan arrived in Chapel Hill.

both-teams-played-hard
09-21-2007, 11:22 AM
Eric,

Sorry for the delay....here are the responses based on conversations with the buyer.

Regards,
Doug


I was tired when I originally read this post. The above quote says it all. "BASED" on conversations...kind of like "BASED" on a true story. These are the same answers Doug has given throughout this situation on many e-mails to Eric. They are the anwers paraphrased from "conversations" or e-mails from the high bidder. ALL of these answers were stated on different threads about this subject. I wonder if the high bidder even knows about O'Keefe's article? Or this forum?
Also, Doug says he's going to "destroy" the jersey? Why? It really was worn by Ranzino Smith. A true Carolina fan would appreciate a game used "Z". Restore it..don't destroy it!

Eric
09-21-2007, 01:59 PM
Folks-

I too was confused and disappointed to hear the ranzino smith shooting shirt would be destroyed after the mears examination.

I just wrote doug allen and said I would be interested in buying the shirt.

If they felt restoring a facemask to a kellen winslow helmet would make it more attractive to a collector, I'm not sure why that wouldn't apply here too

Eric

both-teams-played-hard
09-21-2007, 04:41 PM
I too was confused and disappointed to hear the ranzino smith shooting shirt would be destroyed after the mears examination.

I just wrote doug allen and said I would be interested in buying the shirt.



Now all you need is the Green Ripken, and you can start the "Game Used Forum Museum of Oddities".

both-teams-played-hard
09-21-2007, 08:50 PM
Now all you need is the Green Ripken, and you can start the "Game Used Forum Museum of Oddities".
http://img105.mytextgraphics.com/photolava/2007/09/21/museumofoddities-47wqmoccs.jpg
Sorry, but I named it after myself. I'm gonna use my rich uncle's house. Nice place...but there's a gear shift in the lobby!

Eric
10-03-2007, 11:18 AM
I just noticed one of Eric Inselberg's ebay names ny1prada is listed as no longer a registered user.

Wonder what happened
Eric

grandpahoo
10-20-2007, 05:22 PM
Makes you wonder where they came up with the vintage material for the numbers, etc. There are some pretty crafty forgers out there.

Off the subject but, grandpahoo, I got your message and it appears that you're not set up to receive replies. In any event, the Herman Moore gamer you inquired about was sold last year. Sorry, but keep looking, they're out there!

I didn't see this until just now. Thanks for the response - I'll definitely keep looking.

both-teams-played-hard
10-20-2007, 11:18 PM
I just noticed one of Eric Inselberg's ebay names ny1prada is listed as no longer a registered user.

Wonder what happened
Eric

Didn't ny1prada win the Chargers Lance Alworth a few months ago on eBay? He's outbid me on other nice items. So, he's a collector and a flipper? No flipping way!

Eric
10-20-2007, 11:36 PM
good call
http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=3023&highlight=ny1prada