Question for the community

[Marlins2003]

I'd like several opinions on this.


When in the middle of negotiating a price of an item with a seller, the seller makes a claim to have previously sold many of the same items for X amount.

Is it wrong to ask the seller to stand by that claim and show you where they've sold said item for X amount?



I mean, with my business background I've never once taken the word of a wholesaler that the price they tell me something sells for is the the price I will actually get.

I strictly go by the current market. The price the market dictates it the price I expect to get (depending on many other factors of course).


So if the market suggests that $250-$300 is the actual going rate of an item yet the seller claims to have sold many of the same item for $400-$500, wouldn't it be in my best interest to ask them to provide proof of such a claim - by asking them to show even one completed auction or a link to any one of these items that has sold for over $400?

Or is the seller right in blasting me, claiming to be highly insulted and refusing to do business with me because i called them a liar (which does not affect me either way as there are many sellers in the market)?


A more simple anology would be that if you know a certain jersey goes for $1000 but I tried selling mine to you for $1800 and told you "Hey, I sell these all day long at $1800-$2200!" Wouldn't you be inclined to ask me to show you where I've sold my jerseys for those prices?

[David]

I don't think yours was an unfair question.

[zonker]

i think that was the right question to ask. if i'm looking to do bussiness with anyone and they make statements that seem out of the norm. then you asking for proof, it's your right, if for nothing else to educate yourself or catch up on fair market value's. and if the seller took it as an insult or perssonaly like he did. that would lead me to belive that if he wasn't honest in his statements he should have no problem providing proof as it will help him get a better price on his item's. but in this case it seem's the seller got caught in a lie and nobody like's that! and useally take it personal and get defensive. i think your better off not doing bussiness with someone like this, if they cant keep there personal feeling's and bussiness seperate from each other. what's next?

[Marlins2003]

Thank you both. I too feel that I was not wrong.

Anyone else? I'm just trying to get a general feel from as many members here as possible.

[Marlins2003]

Last time up, anyone else want to toss in an opinion?

[kingjammy24]

"Is it wrong to ask the seller to stand by that claim and show you where they've sold said item for X amount?"

ultimately, it's irrelevant. is it going to change anything if the seller shows you a sale for X amount? are you then going to turn around and pay their price or would you then start debating how it must be an anomaly and not truly representative? do you think that pulling out sales data is going to make the seller change their price? it's all just an argument for arguments sake.

you have your price, they have theirs and regardless of who's right, neither of you seem willing to budge, so what's the point of seeing who's right? if he won't lower his price and you won't increase yours, then this entire exercise of asking for sales data is nothing more than a meaningless pissing contest.

"A more simple anology would be that if you know a certain jersey goes for $1000 but I tried selling mine to you for $1800 and told you "Hey, I sell these all day long at $1800-$2200!" Wouldn't you be inclined to ask me to show you where I've sold my jerseys for those prices?"

no. i wouldn't be inclined to ask that because i'm not into wasting my time. if he wanted to sell it for $1k then he would've. if i was willing to spend $1800, then i would've already. if noone's budging, then who cares whose sales data is accurate. at the end of the day, he isn't making the sale and you aren't getting the item. your best interests lie in finding the item at the price you want, not in wasting your time to determine who's got the most accurate sales data.

rudy.

[Marlins2003]

"Is it wrong to ask the seller to stand by that claim and show you where they've sold said item for X amount?"

ultimately, it's irrelevant. is it going to change anything if the seller shows you a sale for X amount? are you then going to turn around and pay their price or would you then start debating how it must be an anomaly and not truly representative? do you think that pulling out sales data is going to make the seller change their price? it's all just an argument for arguments sake.

you have your price, they have theirs and regardless of who's right, neither of you seem willing to budge, so what's the point of seeing who's right? if he won't lower his price and you won't increase yours, then this entire exercise of asking for sales data is nothing more than a meaningless pissing contest.

"A more simple anology would be that if you know a certain jersey goes for $1000 but I tried selling mine to you for $1800 and told you "Hey, I sell these all day long at $1800-$2200!" Wouldn't you be inclined to ask me to show you where I've sold my jerseys for those prices?"

no. i wouldn't be inclined to ask that because i'm not into wasting my time. if he wanted to sell it for $1k then he would've. if i was willing to spend $1800, then i would've already. if noone's budging, then who cares whose sales data is accurate. at the end of the day, he isn't making the sale and you aren't getting the item. your best interests lie in finding the item at the price you want, not in wasting your time to determine who's got the most accurate sales data.

rudy.


The point of this exercise was not to see who was right and who was wrong. And no, this was far from a pissing contest.

I merely asked the seller to back up their claim of specific previous sale prices. A common practice for anyone buying merchandise that is not as easy to get as a shirt off a Macy's rack (i.e game used memorabilia).

It was however, to show that in this "community" (where we must depend on truth and honesty from one another and must root out those who are not truthful and honest) that some "highly reputable" dealers fall victim to the greed of the almighty dollar and choose to lie to potential customers in order to try and get a sale.

As Zonker said, the sellers abrupt defensive response was an age old indicator that they were caught in a lie and were agrrevated and/or embarrassed by it.


I will not openly bash the seller here, because I know they are well known here and I know the sharks will turn on me in a heart beat.


What I now know for sure is that atleast a few members here agree that I took the right steps in trying to make sure I wasn't being swindled.


The bottom line is that pracatices such as lying and trying to deceive a potential customer into buying an item at a fabricated price cannot notbe allowed in this hobby from anyone, especially a so-called well known, reputable dealer.


Ultimately, the choice to buy is mine. And of course, I am wise enough to walk away from any bad deal. But that still does not excuse the seller for attempting to pull the games they tried to play.



That's all.

[both-teams-played-hard]

I mean, with my business background I've never once taken the word of a wholesaler that the price they tell me something sells for is the the price I will actually get.



I think you are somewhat misguided. Usually, game worn jerseys are one-of-a-kind and not available in bulk rate. If you don't like the price, do not buy it. Do you think the seller should produce a copy of the receipts of his past transactions? Your business background should have taught you...prices may change daily...the market changes daily. What is the item you were trying to buy?

[Marlins2003]

I think you are somewhat misguided. Usually, game worn jerseys are one-of-a-kind and not available in bulk rate. If you don't like the price, do not buy it. Do you think the seller should produce a copy of the receipts of his past transactions? Your business background should have taught you...prices may change daily...the market changes daily. What is the item you were trying to buy?


I may have used bad anology. But hardly miguided. I was looking into purchasing another gu bat for my collection, to which there are enough available. The going rate for said bat is $250-$300. The seller claimed to have been selling said bats easily at $400-$500 and that my prices were incorrect, even though I've been buying them long enough to know better.

The bottom line is that the seller lied, that is clear. Their over the top reaction was evidence of that. Anyone using a seconds worth of common sense can see that.

Of course I am not buying an item, only a fool would overpay for an item that is readily available elsewhere. That's never been the issue here.

The issue has been and still is the fact that the seller blatantly lied in order to try and make a sale, got called on it and jumped on the defensive because they had nowhere else to turn. I find that pathetic and low.

As a side note, because I see where some of this is going. I own many gu bats and many of this particular player. And to boot, after a few days of negotiating I closed a deal tonight for another one.....with an HONEST seller who was forthright with information, pictures and answered any questions I had without batting an eye. An agreement was made and payment will be sent Mon. morning. THAT is what this hobby is about, not sellers trying to fleece you because they feel they can. - Bolded for emphasis.

[aeneas01]

I was looking into purchasing another gu bat for my collection, to which there are enough available. The going rate for said bat is $250-$300. The seller claimed to have been selling said bats easily at $400-$500 and that my prices were incorrect, even though I've been buying them long enough to know better.

please don't take this personally but i really must be missing something here - if you knew such bats were readily available at a going rate of $250-$300, then why would you even bother asking the dealer for proof of his claims? why not just a) tell the dealer you've been collecting gu bats for years b) you are interested in the bat he has for sale c) point him to the "enough available" bats going for $250-$300 and c) tell him if he's willing to come close to these going rates you'll take the bat.

i mean, frankly, i'm surprised the dealer didn't ask you why you were wasting his time asking for supporting evidence of his claims if such a bat was so readily available at a much cheaper price elsewhere - know what i mean?

[Marlins2003]

please don't take this personally but i really must be missing something here - if you knew such bats were readily available at a going rate of $250-$300, then why would you even bother asking the dealer for proof of his claims? why not just a) tell the dealer you've been collecting gu bats for years b) you are interested in the bat he has for sale c) point him to the "enough available" bats going for $250-$300 and c) tell him if he's willing to come close to these going rates you'll take the bat.

i mean, frankly, i'm surprised the dealer didn't ask you why you were wasting his time asking for supporting evidence of his claims if such a bat was so readily available at a much cheaper price elsewhere - know what i mean?


I hear you, and take no offense. I went that road early on in the negotiating process.

I still stand my what I have said all along. For arguements sake, in this particular hobby (game used collecting) a certain amount of trust has to be built between buyer and seller. I am sure that each of us here has atleast one seller that we wouldn't hesitate to buy from sight unseen. I know I have three such sellers. So when a seller is caught in a blatant bold faced lie, it becomes more of an integrity issue that an issue of whether or not I want the item.

[kingjammy24]

"..the seller lied, that is clear. Their over the top reaction was evidence of that...So when a seller is caught in a blatant bold faced lie.."

i find it ludicrous that an agitated response is what constitutes "clear evidence of a blatant, bold faced lie". it sounds to me like the seller perceived you as someone who wouldn't buy the bat regardless of what data was presented. answer this honestly: if the seller had provided you with photocopies of previous sales of the bat at $400-500 each, would you have bought the bat? it likely would've turned into a debate over whose data was more reliable. very few have the patience to engage in swap meet antics. their reluctance to do is hardly "clear evidence of a blatant lie" and to say otherwise borders on libel.

you were looking for a $200-300 bat. his wasn't that price. rather than moving on and not wasting his time, you decided to enter into a debate about FMV and he likely didn't have the patience. anyway, you wanted past sales of cabrera bats at $400-$500. here you go. now that you have these, i trust that you'll go back and buy his bat?

$678
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=26351

$421
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=32368

$1758
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=33659

if you don't want to pay a certain price, don't. to say that because someone lost their patience in dealing with you means they "clearly lied" is nothing but reckless conjecture.

rudy.

[Marlins2003]

"..the seller lied, that is clear. Their over the top reaction was evidence of that...So when a seller is caught in a blatant bold faced lie.."

i find it ludicrous that an agitated response is what constitutes "clear evidence of a blatant, bold faced lie". it sounds to me like the seller perceived you as someone who wouldn't buy the bat regardless of what data was presented. answer this honestly: if the seller had provided you with photocopies of previous sales of the bat at $400-500 each, would you have bought the bat? it likely would've turned into a debate over whose data was more reliable. very few have the patience to engage in swap meet antics. their reluctance to do is hardly "clear evidence of a blatant lie" and to say otherwise borders on libel.

you were looking for a $200-300 bat. his wasn't that price. rather than moving on and not wasting his time, you decided to enter into a debate about FMV and he likely didn't have the patience. anyway, you wanted past sales of cabrera bats at $400-$500. here you go. now that you have these, i trust that you'll go back and buy his bat?

$678
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=26351

$421
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=32368

$1758
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=33659

if you don't want to pay a certain price, don't. to say that because someone lost their patience in dealing with you means they "clearly lied" is nothing but reckless conjecture.

rudy.

First, you should not make assupmptions on my character without knowing me.

Secondly, had your links showed conclusively that I was wrong with my market prices that would have been one thing.

You showed me links that I seen a dozen times over. 2 auto'd bats and a PSA/DNA graded 8 bat. Of course they will sell higher than a simple gu bat with no COA or LOA from a major name like PSA. Neither of which show pricing for a plain old gu bat, non autographed, non graded.

This changes nothing. I don't know how to make that much clearer. Had you showed me a consistant record (3 closed auctions would be sufficient) of his plain old gu bats selling for $400+ then I would be wrong in what I consider to be his gu bat price.

And yes, if that were the case I would immediately hit the BIN on the bat that originally started this debate. I like the bat, just not the gauged price.

As it stands now, I still have no interest for this particular bat, from this particular seller due to the fact that the price is clearly $200 over current maket value.

I'm, truly sorry if I'm like some of you other collectors who have larger than life egos and will buy anything at any price just to say "I own it". lol That's juvenile and perhaps a bit OCD.

First and foremost, I make sure that I am happy with every purchase I make. And that I pay the price that something is worth, not the price that a greedy seller wants. I've been in this game far too long.

I do appreciate though, in your defense of the seller (to which it is clear atleast you are aware of who they are) that you try to turn the tables on me. This was the shark attack mentality I was waiting for. ;)

They lie, they are rude and obnoxious in their responses to me yet you try to make me out to be the bad guy.

Very nice. lol

Well sir, I have enjoyed this little debate if you will. In the end I stand my what I have said, the market value is $250-$300 for non-momentous bats such as All Star game, HR bats etc

The seller is free to charge what they want, it is their item. But to lie in doing so, that is low and pathethic.

As I look over at my multitude of bats, several gu jerseys and two batting helmets I can be pleased with every purchase. I know that each is authentic and that I paid a fair and reasonable price for each. I hope that you can say the same for your collectibles.

[both-teams-played-hard]

That's juvenile and perhaps a bit OCD.


Yes. I agree. That is a very big part of the problem!

[kingjammy24]

"Of course they will sell higher than a simple gu bat with no COA or LOA from a major name like PSA. Neither of which show pricing for a plain old gu bat, non autographed, non graded."

$678 = $200-$300 for the bat, $478-$378 for the PSA/DNA authentication
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/A...ction_ID=26351 (http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=26351)

$1758 = $200-$300 for the bat, $478-$378 for the PSA/DNA authentication, leaving $1080 for the cabrera autograph.
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/A...ction_ID=33659

right. those numbers definitely make sense. if you believe $378-$478 is the going rate for Taube to authenticate your $200-$300 bat, please let me know. i can have your bat authenticated by him for only $250. just make the check out to me.

to answer your original question:

"..is the seller right in ..claiming to be highly insulted..because i called them a liar"

yes.

rudy.

[BPH32]

Hello sports fans,
I am the guy which this "person" is talking about. I wanted to let the dust settle a little before responding, hopefully calm down a little and see how deep he would dig himself. So far he has called me a liar (more than once), a swindler, dishonest, a child (in an email), questioned my gender (again in an email), greedy (well maybe I am a little), low and pathetic. Did I leave anything out ?
No matter what he says this is all because I wouldn't sell him a bat at the price he wants to pay. All of this bull over a 50.00 dollar difference of opinion on a bat. Through out this potential transaction I was not rude, I sent him pictures, I answered questions, I reduced my price and I wanted to sell him the bat until he called my integrity into question. I told him no to his offer numerous times but he would not give up and it did no good at all ( I don't know how many emails he sent but it was several and I was definitely loosing patience). I considered the deal dead. During this time he first said Cabrera bats were worth no more than around 250.00 then that he had never seen one sell for more than 300.00 then that they were worth no more than 300.00-350.00 (for a regular bat). Was he trying to mislead me on values to get me to lower my price ? You decide. To his main point my saying that I had sold Cabrera bats in the 400.00-500.00 price range ( I actually sold one for 550.00 and one for 645.00 over the years) was in response to his saying he had never seen one sell for over 300.00 not to get him to pay my price as he had said numerous times he would not and by this point I would have cut up the bat into wood chips before selling it to him. I suggested that he be patient and maybe he would find one in his price range and that I didn't doubt it that he could. If he took it differently than I intended, which I doubt, then he was just plain wrong. He asked me to prove it by producing auction results, which I wouldn't have done anyway, but none of the ones I sold were in auctions at least not in the last year or so that I can remember. We also sell from our website and through Sports Collectors Digest which I pointed out to him. So what should I do after this person has called me a liar waste more time on a dead deal by going back through my order books for the last 5 years to find an order then give him the guys name and phone number so he can pester them. No I won't do that to my customers. If people think that is a problem or that I am "hiding" something so be it. I don't owe this guy a thing.
I did nothing wrong in this deal at all. I would hope most people would take my word on something but if you want to believe this guy then that is your choice. End of story and my last comment on it at least in this venue.
Mr. Kim Alan Stigall
Ball Park Heroes

[sarahsdad]

Mr. Stigall:
Thank you for taking the time to point out the other side of the story. I have read this banter back and forth and once I found out that you were the "Liar" that is all it took for me. I have had several dealings with you and have discussed you, as a dealer, with other collectors. And most, if not all of those I have had discussions with all agree on one thing: You have more credibility in this hobby then most. You are fair. You are honest. You certainly cannot please everyone and I know firsthand that you will do whatever you can to make a deal happen. I enjoy doing business with you and would not hesitate to make a purchase from you.
Sarahsdad

[eGameUsed]

Kim,

Sounds like this individual has a lot to learn about the business side of the hobby. I think it is fair to negotiate and "wheel-and-deal," but this guy took it to far. He has no idea of your cost on the item, your overhead, eBay seller fees, advertising fees, etc.

Marlins2003,

Why don't you post your name or contact information on your posts? Also, have you ever heard the phrase "An item is only worth what someone is willing to pay." There is no price guide for game used memorabilia. BTW, I have a brand new, unused Cabrera bat I will sell you for $200. I also have a heaily used, autographed model, with some inscriptions written around the Zinger logo that I will sell for $800. Are you interested!

That is all for my opinion!

[sarahsdad]

Chris:
I may be interested in the bat. please provide details.
Sarahsdad

[sarahsdad]

The unused bat. Sorry,
Sarahsdad

[hblakewolf]

Sounds extremely familiar to the writing "style" of banned Forum poster Zimmerman11, who is actually Jason Adair. Kim Stigall,can you please identify who this individual is, or better yet, can Marlins2003 sign his posts with his actual name and email address?

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[sarahsdad]

Howard:
You are correct. It is Jason Adair.
Sarahsdad

[BPH32]

He identified himself as Jason Adair.

[ironmanfan]

Good pick up Howard....

Has Jason faxed a copy of his latest bank statement to you yet??

[ChrisCavalier]

Hello Everyone,

As an FYI, Marlins2003 has also now been banned from the forum given that user name was associated with someone who was already banned previously.

On a separate note that has relevance to this thread, I will add that my experiences, as well as the opinions I have received, in relation to Kim Stigell have been nothing but positive.

Sincerely,
Chris Cavalier

[hblakewolf]

Good pick up Howard....

Has Jason faxed a copy of his latest bank statement to you yet??

Although Jason never provided a copy of his bank statement to me, I did receive this rather odd email, with another one that followed seeking to actually purchase my Cabrera WBC jersey!


----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Adair" <ryanzimmerman11@msn.com (ryanzimmerman11@msn.com)>
To: <hblakewolf@patmedia.net (hblakewolf@patmedia.net)>
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 9:42 PM
Subject: Re: Formal Apology



> I honestly couldn't give a rats ass about some of those pompous, arrogant
> pricks on GUU. They seems to like to make someones day miserable just for
> fun. However, I did want to clear the air between you and I.
>
> I made and judgement call and as far as I can tell...I was wrong.
>
> For that, I apologize.
>
>
> Take care,
> Jason
>
>
> >From: "Howard Wolf" <hblakewolf@patmedia.net (hblakewolf@patmedia.net)>
> >To: "Jason Adair" <ryanzimmerman11@msn.com (ryanzimmerman11@msn.com)>
> >Subject: Re: Formal Apology
> >Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 21:19:25 -0400
> >
> >Jason-
> >The honorable thing to do would be to make it to those who read your other
> >posts-the Forum and Beckett readers. How about extending it to those who
> >may have read your prior posts on both sites?
> >
> >Howard
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Jason Adair" <ryanzimmerman11@msn.com (ryanzimmerman11@msn.com)>
> >To: <hblakewolf@patmedia.net (hblakewolf@patmedia.net)>
> >Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 9:09 PM
> >Subject: Formal Apology
> >
> >
> > > Howard,
> > >
> > >
> > > I owe you a formal apology. I'm truly sorry for jumping to conclussions
> > > concering the authenticity of items you are/were selling.
> > >
> > >
> > > I am still learning who's who in this side (game used) of the sports
> > > industry. It seems as though I latched on to a few collectors/dealers
> >that
> >I
> > > thought were good guys and I focused on a few that I thought were not so
> > > good.
> > >
> > > It seems I made a grave mistake in judgement concerning you. From what I
> >can
> > > see you are an upstanding seller.
> > >
> > >
> > > Please accepts my sincerest apology.
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Jason Adair
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________ _______________
> > >
> >http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507
> > >
> >
> >
>
> __________________________________________________ _______________
> http://newlivehotmail.com (http://newlivehotmail.com)
>

[autographedgamers]

I think that there are many cases where there are not really clear values for certain items. You can see a vladimir guerrero unsigned game used xbat is being sold on ebay this hour for 550. I paid 400 for my Guerrero signed rookie bat from 1997. I have sold some bats for 1500 and the identical bat for 700 one year later. It all depends on the deal and the time. Anyhow, I don't think you are out of line if you truly were considering the item at his/her price.

[G1X]

All I have to say about this is that Kim Stigall (Ball Park Heroes) is one of the finest in the business. I have had nothing but very positive dealings with him over the years. A first-class gentleman who is about as easy-going as it gets.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange

[allstarsplus]

Hello Everyone,

As an FYI, Marlins2003 has also now been banned from the forum given that user name was associated with someone who was already banned previously.

Sincerely,
Chris Cavalier

Chris, I emailed you and Eric and others this morning with my suspicions on this person and I never heard back from either of you.

It is a shame that this couldn't have been shut down sooner.

Isn't there system safeguards so this doesn't happen again?

Andrew

[metsbats]

I resisted the temptation to be part of the original thread because it was clear to me the buyer was not playing with a full deck.

I just have to add it's a shame that a respectable dealer like Kim Stigall has to tolerate abuse like this.

Unfortunately it's folks like Marlins2003 or whoever he really is that give the forum a bad name.

-David

[ChrisCavalier]

Chris, I emailed you and Eric and others this morning with my suspicions on this person and I never heard back from either of you.

It is a shame that this couldn't have been shut down sooner.
Hello Andrew,

Thanks for your post. However, I'm not exactly sure how to interpret it. You emailed Eric and me this morning with "suspicions" about the member and by the afternoon the member was banned from the site. Given we are not going to take action without proper cause, I'm just trying to figure out where the shame is in the situation.

As it turned out, I think the situation was made pretty clear to all our members and in the process the reputation of a very credible entity in the hobby was further solidified. Am I missing something?

Sincerely,
Chris

[B1SON]

I collect such an exclusive group of players that when I finally find something I am pretty much at the mercy of the seller. It is not arrogance that keeps me from walking away, it is the fact that I have search for so long and there just is not much gu stuff of the people I collect out there.

[allstarsplus]

Hello Andrew,

Thanks for your post. However, I'm not exactly sure how to interpret it. You emailed Eric and me this morning with "suspicions" about the member and by the afternoon the member was banned from the site. Given we are not going to take action without proper cause, I'm just trying to figure out where the shame is in the situation.

As it turned out, I think the situation was made pretty clear to all our members and in the process the reputation of a very credible entity in the hobby was further solidified. Am I missing something?

Sincerely,
Chris

Chris - The shame in this lies solely on Marlins2003 who is responsible for his own actions. You are not the problem here. I am frustrated with how this person circumvented system controls to keep posting with an alias after being banned.

Offline, this person has become a big topic of discussion as many members expect him to reappear again. He has caused much disruption outside of the Forum too, and taken up countless hours of legitimate time from members as he has done with me also.


Given we are not going to take action without proper cause

Just for clarification, I thought proper cause to supspend would be utilizing another alias when you have already been banned which seemed fairly clear unless I am missing something.

Andrew

[metsbats]

Chris,

Does the Forum software allow checks at the time of registration for the IP address of a person attempting to register. The IP can be checked against a list of banned IP (if that information is tracked in the database).

This would not allow a "banned" person to re-register. Of course all bets are off if the person uses another PC but at least it will make the person work if they truly want to circumvent the checks.

-David

[allstarsplus]

Check out this Post. Look familiar?


http://www.beckett.com/beckettforum/Default.aspx?g=posts&t=1459644

[ChrisCavalier]

Chris,

Does the Forum software allow checks at the time of registration for the IP address of a person attempting to register. The IP can be checked against a list of banned IP (if that information is tracked in the database).

This would not allow a "banned" person to re-register. Of course all bets are off if the person uses another PC but at least it will make the person work if they truly want to circumvent the checks.
Hello David,

Thanks for the post. When a member is banned we automatically ban their IP address as well as their email address in the system. Both will automatically be flagged if they are attempted to be used again. Obviously, someone can use another IP address when attempting to re-enroll. However, I think the forum rules and objectives of the forum provide a second line of defense when banned members attempt to circumvent the system (which was the case here).

Among the 17 rules of the forum, which all posters are required to abide in, is the following:

It is expected that all posts are to be created with a sincere attempt to benefit the hobby. Any posts which the Administrator deems as a personal attack or an attempt to unnecessarily discredit others will be subject to the administrative rules of the forum.

I believe we have put a lot of sweat into showing the hobby that this site is expected to be run in a way that is sincerely attempting to benefit the hobby. In fact, I think that spirit is now the predominant one among our members and, while anyone is welcome to enroll on this site, I don't think posters will be around very long if they are not acting in accordance with our rules. Neither the rules nor the members would allow it.

Ironically, if everyone attempted to always act "with a sincere attempt to benefit the hobby" we wouldn't really need many rules if any at all. However, until we reach that place, I believe both the rules and the positive intentions of the vast majority of our members will protect the forum from those with less noble objectives.

Please let me know if that answers your questions.

Sincerely,
Chris

[allstarsplus]

When a member is banned we automatically ban their IP address as well as their email address in the system. Both will automatically be flagged if they are attempted to be used again. Obviously, someone can use another IP address when attempting to re-enroll. However, I think the forum rules and objectives of the forum provide a second line of defense when banned members attempt to circumvent the system (which was the case here).

Chris - Thanks for the followup. Andrew

[metsbats]

"Ironically, if everyone attempted to always act "with a sincere attempt to benefit the hobby" we wouldn't really need many rules if any at all. However, until we reach that place, I believe both the rules and the positive intentions of the vast majority of our members will protect the forum from those with less noble objectives."


There's no perfect world or perfect forum and we will never reach that place but it 's great to know we all are doing our part to do what we can to minimize these unfortunate disruptions

Thanks Chris.

-David