Ortiz Twins Jersey

[hblakewolf]

Joel Alpert is currently offering a "game worn 1999 David Ortiz Twins jersey" on Ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1999-DAVID-ORTIZ-GAME-USED-TWINS-JERSEY-MEARS-LOA_W0QQitemZ250126988143QQihZ015QQcategoryZ60597Q QrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I'm assuming the tagging with the X indicates Xtra jersey? Any Twins experts care to chime in? My concern is that Ortiz was issued or wore an extra jersey? Why? He was first with the Twins in 1997, thus, should have a team issued jersey for 1999, not an extra. Likewise, does the shirt look correct for a Twins 1999 alternate, both in terms of numbers, name, and tagging?

Any insight is appreciated.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[Spiezio23]

So what was Joel's repsonse to your questions?

I can't vouch or give any info on the tagging/numbers/font, etc. but..

I personally don't find it hard at all to believe that David Ortiz was issued an extra jersey for 1999. Yes, Howard you are correct in that he played for the Twins first in 1997 (15 games) and he was even there in 1998 (86 games) but in 1999 he appeared 10 games with the Twins during september/october. He spent the rest of the year in AAA Salt Lake where he was in 130 games.

Makes sense to me, why make a whole set for a player you're gonna keep in triple A all year, so it can sit in storage and possibly not even be used?

-Jeremy Morgan

[sylbry]

Jeremy makes a good point. He played in only 10 games at the end of the 1999 season. Chances are the jersey he was issued was a team spare.

Here are my thoughts. Of those 10 games only 3 were on the road. The dates are 9/17, 9/22, 10/1. The jersey is a road alternate. The jersey also shows a good amount of wear in the tagging and with the number puckering.

One thing that stuck out to me is the sloppy sewing around the number tagging. Here are two examples. Also, the Ortiz jersey has dark thread while these two have white thread.

It may be comparing apples to oranges as my two examples are from 2000 and 2003 and the tagging has been moved from the collar to the tail. But this is the best I can do.

Bryan

[sylbry]

Look at that. Another suspect Twins David Ortiz appears. Not the same jersey as the stitching is different around the tag.

http://vintageauthentics.at.truition.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=84430762&prmenbr=57735959&aunbr=84777472

[flightposite]

Lampson and VA joining teams to screw people out of their money. I didn't see one Twins jersey in there that I would actually feel 50/50 on if it was real or not.


Look at that. Another suspect Twins David Ortiz appears. Not the same jersey as the stitching is different around the tag.

http://vintageauthentics.at.truition.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=84430762&prmenbr=57735959&aunbr=84777472

[sylbry]

Jeremy makes a good point. He played in only 10 games at the end of the 1999 season. Chances are the jersey he was issued was a team spare.

Here are my thoughts. Of those 10 games only 3 were on the road. The dates are 9/17, 9/22, 10/1. The jersey is a road alternate. The jersey also shows a good amount of wear in the tagging and with the number puckering.

One thing that stuck out to me is the sloppy sewing around the number tagging. Here are two examples. Also, the Ortiz jersey has dark thread while these two have white thread.

It may be comparing apples to oranges as my two examples are from 2000 and 2003 and the tagging has been moved from the collar to the tail. But this is the best I can do.

Bryan

I want to reiterate my point made when the other 1999 Ortiz alternate road appeared. He played in 3 ROAD GAMES in 1999. The Twins used both a grey road jersey and a blue road alternate. So now we have two alternate road jerseys for a player who only played in 3 road games. And to top that off neither is properly tagged.

Bryan

[hblakewolf]

sylbry;44262]I want to reiterate my point made when the other 1999 Ortiz alternate road appeared. He played in 3 ROAD GAMES in 1999. The Twins used both a grey road jersey and a blue road alternate. So now we have two alternate road jerseys for a player who only played in 3 road games. And to top that off neither is properly tagged.



Bryan-
Can you elaborate on your statement, "And to top it off neither is properly tagged". Are you indicating the jersey I originally made this post for (see above http://cgi.ebay.com/1999-DAVID-ORTIZ-GAME-USED-TWINS-JERSEY-MEARS-LOA_W0QQitemZ250126988143QQihZ015QQcategoryZ60597Q QrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) had a problem with the tagging? If this is the case, I'd appreciate solid evidence of the issue/problem. I was led to believe that the jersey I made the initial post about had tagging representing an extra jersey, however, was a legit gamer.

Any information is appreciated.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[sylbry]

sylbry;44262]I want to reiterate my point made when the other 1999 Ortiz alternate road appeared. He played in 3 ROAD GAMES in 1999. The Twins used both a grey road jersey and a blue road alternate. So now we have two alternate road jerseys for a player who only played in 3 road games. And to top that off neither is properly tagged.



Bryan-
Can you elaborate on your statement, "And to top it off neither is properly tagged". Are you indicating the jersey I originally made this post for (see above http://cgi.ebay.com/1999-DAVID-ORTIZ-GAME-USED-TWINS-JERSEY-MEARS-LOA_W0QQitemZ250126988143QQihZ015QQcategoryZ60597Q QrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) had a problem with the tagging? If this is the case, I'd appreciate solid evidence of the issue/problem. I was led to believe that the jersey I made the initial post about had tagging representing an extra jersey, however, was a legit gamer.

Any information is appreciated.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net


Hi Howard,

Yes the jersey is tagged similar to a spare blank Twins jerseys ordered by the team. This jersey was not ordered as an Ortiz spare, rather a blank spare that somewhere down the line became an Ortiz jersey. Whether it became an Ortiz by the team for game use, by the team and not used, or by someone else after it left the clubhouse is completely up in the air.

I have had conversations with the Twins Pro Shop managers and with other Twins jersey collectors and these spares that VA auctions off have never made it to the Twins Pro Shops for sale. I have looked through racks of jerseys specifically looking for these spares and never found one. I obviously have not seen and heard everything so anything is possible but I have seen and heard a lot.

So where do they come from? My guess is someone buys them as blanks and doctors them to be superstar jerseys. The Twins have sales to unload excess items and it wouldn't surprise me if they were acqured that way. On a different note I once saw a 1997 red alternate team spare (tagged "50-97") signed by Morneau. I asked the seller where he got it from and the seller replied from someone in the Twins organization. Point being these blank spares are kept long after the fact.

As far as my statement goes, jerseys ordered for specific players are tagged with their number, not an "X". That is why the tagging isn't proper. Plus, I have NEVER seen such sloppy sewing on a Twins tag before. And I would like proof showing a Twins jersey tag sewn in black thread. Every tag I have ever seen on a blue alternate was sewn in white.

Now it is possible it is legit. Ortiz was a late season call up and he may not have had a jersey on hand. Knowing that VA consistently offers blank Twins spares turned Twins star jersey in every one of their auctions I wouldn't bank on it. I like to error on the side of common sense with them. If I wanted to start using my imagination on how things could be legit I would start to think like Lou Lampson.

Now as far as proof, I don't have any other than my word. And quite frankly I see no reason why someone wouldn't take my word on this subject just as they take yours on other game related items. But as always, in this hobby please draw your own conclusions before purchasing anything.

Bryan

[hblakewolf]

Bryan-
Thanks for ther great information. As I'm extremely familiar with Phillies tagging and uniform traits, it appears you have the same knowledge with Twins.

I have a customer seeking a "correctly tagged" Twins Ortiz jersey. Based on your informaiton, I'm extremely pleased that I passed on the previous Twins Ortiz on Ebay and will not bid on the current jersey in question. Should you locate an alternate blue of Ortiz that you are comfortable with, please keep me in mind.

Thanks.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[cohibasmoker]

Howard,

Why don't you contact Joel? He states in the auction that the jersey,

This jersey was obtained through an impeccable source.


Maybe Joel can contact his source and get you what you need.


Jim

[flightposite]

Not to mention that this is VA's THIRD Joe Mauer "Spare" Rookie GU Jersey they've auctioned off... nothing fishy there.

[saftey45]

If anyone is interested I have 3 game worn Ortiz jerseys from the Twins. 1is a TBTC, an Home and a Road. If anyone is interested in them or pictures of the tags LMK and Hope I can be of some help. mike. Not quites sure of the years but if you need that to I can get that after work. M

[staindsox]

Nope, it's the same Mauer...I'm just dumping it so I don't have to deal with it anymore. It's where I got it and where I'll leave it, but I've already posted at length on this on another thread.

[hblakewolf]

If anyone is interested I have 3 game worn Ortiz jerseys from the Twins. 1is a TBTC, an Home and a Road. If anyone is interested in them or pictures of the tags LMK and Hope I can be of some help. mike. Not quites sure of the years but if you need that to I can get that after work. M


Please forward pricing and details to me. Especially interested in an alternate blue.

Thanks.
Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[sylbry]

If anyone is interested I have 3 game worn Ortiz jerseys from the Twins. 1is a TBTC, an Home and a Road. If anyone is interested in them or pictures of the tags LMK and Hope I can be of some help. mike. Not quites sure of the years but if you need that to I can get that after work. M

I would love to see the TBTC. Please send pics to sylbry314@yahoo.com

Thanks,
Bryan

[saftey45]

I'll get pictures and info to all who asked. tonight mike