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View Full Version : Walter Payton gamer on eBay



Bernie J. Gernay
01-12-2006, 09:27 PM
Just read the item description. This one is truly priceless....

http://cgi.ebay.com/1985-Walter-Payton-GAME-used-jersey-BEARS-football-HOF_W0QQitemZ8751030628QQcategoryZ86829QQrdZ1QQcmd ZViewItem

both-teams-played-hard
01-13-2006, 01:17 AM
This one is truly priceless....



I agree. Looks like a great jersey!

jdr3
01-13-2006, 07:50 AM
12 hours ago the description said it was made by Mitchell & Ness. Now it says Wilson. Did anyone from our group let him know what Mitchell and Ness makes?

Bernie J. Gernay
01-13-2006, 02:06 PM
12 hours ago the description said it was made by Mitchell & Ness. Now it says Wilson. Did anyone from our group let him know what Mitchell and Ness makes?

I emailed him and explained this in detail to the seller. Suddenly it is now a Wilson jersey. I'm curious to see if I had told him Payton only wore Starter if he would have said the jersey was now made by Starter in the description.

trsent
01-13-2006, 03:02 PM
Think maybe the jersey needs to be removed from the frame so more photos can be provided?

Bernie J. Gernay
01-14-2006, 12:06 PM
Besides the tagging confusion it scares the heck out of me seeing fresh dirt stain on the numbers. How many vintage football jerseys have I ever see that were offered "unwashed" that were real?? O

Bernie J. Gernay
01-14-2006, 01:33 PM
After further review of this jersey it is obvious there are other concerns with the jersey.

Namely the font of the box top "A" on the back being most obvious although the entire NOB appears inconsistent with other exemplars. The name on the eBay auction PAYTON jersey appears to be wider rather than the taller, slimmer style shown in other examples. Depending on how good your eyes are, it can also be noticed in the "0" as the eBay photo is much wider or open than the other examples. I have checked my extensive library of Walter Payton photos and pictures I was unable to find a shot of him wearing this style "A" font or that style font all together. Notice the 3 pictures below:

1. The 1985 Walter Payton game used jersey as offered on eBay.
2. A rear shot of Walter pre-game of an Oct. 6th 1085 game vs. Tampa Bay.
3. Photo collage of a mid 80's Payton gamer recently auctioned off in an AMI auction which fetched 8K+.

This might indeed be a Mitchell & Ness Payton jersey as originally derscribed in the auction before it was changed. Seems like there is much to be desired regarding this unwashed jersey. You be the judge.

jdr3
01-15-2006, 08:29 AM
The seller has ended the auciton due to "an error in the listing."

Bernie J. Gernay
01-15-2006, 09:18 AM
Unbelievable........now it has been relisted as a PRIVATE AUCTION.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8751759680

otismalibu
01-15-2006, 09:09 PM
Bernie,

Don't be shouting "unbelievable" when you yourself sold (on eBay) a Doctored store bought Erving Sixers jersey to some rube for $300+, that was presented as a game issued jersey. And you can't plead ingorance because I immediately emailed you (the seller) to let you know exactly what you had. Of course, I received no reply.

Why don't you comment on that auction listing? It's been on this board for more than a few weeks.

Greg

Bernie J. Gernay
01-16-2006, 12:40 AM
What is it with you and this weird fetish you have with that Erving jersey? It's becoming creepy man. It was no more than an old sand-knit Erving Sixers jersey with an '87 year tag. It was part of a lot of 10 basketball jerseys we bought to get the one piece we wanted. It was sold as an authentic game jersey with the others, nothing more. It's no life changing event we are talking about here. The buyer was happy. I emailed you but you obviously didn't get it. Maybe you were busy looking at pictures of Julius and accidentally deleted it. Anyway, everything is going to be ok. Move on. It's about 3 months old and like I said your fetish with Dr. J is getting a little creepy now.

trsent
01-16-2006, 05:49 AM
I do find the obsessions with selling a "game issued" or "game" jersey raises so much heat for no reason. The jersey was not being sold as "game used" and I assume "game issued" means: "ready for game use" which means: Who cares?

That darn Yogi Berra post has me posting batty.

both-teams-played-hard
01-16-2006, 01:10 PM
Who cares?



I do. How did a "87" year tag end up on a replica, store-bought Sand Knit jersey? I agree that the item description means nothing. "Game " jersey..."Game issued"..."Game Ready"..."Team issued"...it all means nothing- I understand, people want to encourage traffic on their eBay items. "ERVING" is sewn on the back to represent the player, cool. What is the reason the year tag is there?

trsent
01-16-2006, 02:18 PM
I do. How did a "87" year tag end up on a replica, store-bought Sand Knit jersey? I agree that the item description means nothing. "Game " jersey..."Game issued"..."Game Ready"..."Team issued"...it all means nothing- I understand, people want to encourage traffic on their eBay items. "ERVING" is sewn on the back to represent the player, cool. What is the reason the year tag is there?

Ok, I can't answer that one myself...

In other news I asked the seller of the Payton some questions and my email has not received a reply in the last 36 hours. I'd love to see a photograph of the tagging. I also asked if I ended up high bidder if the item could be shipped cheaper without the frame and if they would guarantee 3rd party authentication or my money back for the item.

I hope to receive a reply, this is a jersey I have interest in.

otismalibu
01-16-2006, 03:20 PM
Apologies Bernie.

I should have just assumed that you replied to my eBay emails regarding the jersey and they simply disappeared in cyberspace. I'm sure you replied previously on this board as well, but I must have missed that post. Maybe it never made it thru either.

I shouldn't have jumped the gun when I saw the "1987 Julius Erving Philadelphia 76ers Game Jersey". It could have simply been purchased in 1987 and I guess even store bought jerseys can technically be a "game jersey". I mean, if you play a game while wearing it...I guess it's a game jersey, right?

And I should not have assumed that the 87 year tag was added for anything less than noble reasons. Actually, it seemed to add value to the piece, based on my eBay comparisons to comparable jerseys. I have this Sixers jersey (http://webpages.charter.net/otismalibu/custom_gamer.jpg) that would look great with some tags. If anyone has a Wilson size 40 tag, a Pearson tag and a year tag anywhere in the 78-84 range, I think this could become a nice game jersey. And as long as the paying customer is happy with the purchase, where's the harm. As stated earlier, who cares?

And you're so right about the Erving obsession. It's getting sort of crazy. A number of years back, I made my wife legally change her name to Turquoise. Of course, we separated a few years later, just to follow suit. Even when I play YMCA ball, I insist on taking off from the foul line. Sadly, I land just inside the foul line, but that's not the point. My therapists say it's odd for me to have a Dr. J. room in my house. I recently started to correspond with Mark David Chapman, and he says it's not odd at all. Mark says with time, I can actually become Dr. J. That's encouraging!

So, no hard feelings - hope I didn't offend you. You seem like an honorable gentleman.

Let's just all enjoy this great hobby!

Greg

kingjammy24
01-16-2006, 04:37 PM
You're either laughing or crying.

Two well-versed Forum members legitimately and specifically question how a store-bought jersey managed to have a year tag sewn on it and Bernie's response is "you guys are wierd, creepy and have fetishes. get over it".

Well no..sorry..that's not entirely correct; Bernie did 'defend' the jersey by saying it's "It was part of a lot of 10 basketball jerseys.."

I haven't seen someone dodge a question like that since the Bush-Kerry debates! Since I wasn't the one who bought the jersey, I guess I'll choose to laugh. Bernie, trying to ostracize and ridicule Forum members by calling them wierd and creepy isn't going to somehow make the issue non-existant. Nice strategy though. How about actually addressing the issue?
You're exactly right; it's been 3 months now and your complete lack of actually addressing the issue is getting a little old.

Who knows..maybe Bernie still miffed that his '80's Montana' (which by PSI's own statements was acquired directly from either Joe or Bronco Hinek) only sold for a little over $1k while Leland's "80's Montana" with actual Bronco Hinek documentation sold for $15k. 1500% more. I'd be pretty steamed too! Imagine that..we both acquire a Montana jersey from the same source, yet my failure to get even a single, tiny piece of documentation winds up costing me $14,000. Ouch.
It's a shame I think; all these great jerseys..Erving, Montana, Marino, Manning in the last month alone..acquired directly from the players/teams..yet none of them with a shred of player/team documentation. Not even a memo on Colts letterhead. A real missed opportunity.

Bernie, I realize you're an 'expert' and I'm a novice but here's a little tip I've picked up: Every single time I'm fortunate enough to acquire a piece directly from a player/team, I always make sure to ask for a small note, either with the player's signature or on team letterhead. So far, none of them have refused! I'm sure your buyers would love to get docs like that with their purchases, don't you?

Rudy.

trsent
01-16-2006, 07:08 PM
Wow, Rudy, from one topic to another there.

I'll back you up, but I don't understand the obsession with the 76ers jersey. It is sold as a 'game' jersey, which doesn't mean Dr. J ever saw the jersey, right?

otismalibu
01-16-2006, 08:22 PM
Joel,

I know you asked Rudy, but I'll throw in my final 2 cents on this subject.

"Game jersey" can have multiple meanings, I guess. I suppose one might call M&N offerings "game jerseys". But if I was told of an 80s NBA jersey, listed as a "game jersey" and it had a year tag and exclusive team tagging, I would suspect it to be a team issued jersey that was simply never worn by the player. AKA, Game Ready, Game Issued, etc. This would be the same pro cut jersey that the players would have worn, with name and number, year tag, added length, etc. I think you sell Yankees jerseys like this, correct? Everything the same, but not actually worn by the player.

The Erving jersey in question was a store bought jersey. You used to see ads for them in the back of HOOP magazine. You could buy them for around $50-60. They just had a simple Sand-Knit tag. I still have a couple of them. I know...CREEPY! These were not the same type of jerseys that were issued to the team. Most I've seen were made with no name on back, thus the number was sewn on a little higher than the team jerseys. The jersey in question had the name added on back but it also had a year tag (87) added as well. Also team tagging. For unknown reasons, someone removed the original tagging and added a year tag and exclusive 76ers taggging. I've sold this very type of jersey on eBay before. Have purchased this very type as well. Always in the $40-70 range. This one sold for around $350 I think. IMO those added tags were the difference. IMO, an honest description for a jersey like that would have been 80s Julius Erving Sand-Knit Replica with added name and tags.

Greg

trsent
01-16-2006, 08:49 PM
I see your point. I know as a seller we always use terms to help get the best price for our item. Maybe the seller in question didn't know the item was altered, or maybe even altered they felt it was still a "game" jersey in their opinion of the term.

kingjammy24
01-16-2006, 10:20 PM
I don't believe the real issue is/was whether it was labelled as 'game used', 'game worn', 'game issued', 'game ready', game jersey, etc.

I believe the real issue was how a retail jersey somehow acquired a year tag.

And I don't believe we'll ever find out.

Rudy.

trsent
01-16-2006, 10:45 PM
I'll give 5-1 odds on that one, but you only have 7 days to prove it or you lose.

suave1477
01-17-2006, 11:31 PM
HOLD UP HOLD UP!!!!! DOES ANYONE PAY ATTENTION!!! If any one noticed the actual wording in the payton auction. It says your bidding on the frame twice it never actually says your bidding on the actual jersey. All it does is describes the game used jersey in the frame but never actually says thats what your bidding on. The very first words in the description are your bidding on the frame. They are waiting for some poor fool to bid on it send him/her the frame and when the person complains that they received just the frame there gonna say read the description it says your bidding on the frame. From what it looks like is he wins, you guys are arguing about the item if it's real mean while the seller is trying to get over on the wording.

trsent
01-17-2006, 11:57 PM
HOLD UP HOLD UP!!!!! DOES ANYONE PAY ATTENTION!!! If any one noticed the actual wording in the payton auction. It says your bidding on the frame twice it never actually says your bidding on the actual jersey. All it does is describes the game used jersey in the frame but never actually says thats what your bidding on. The very first words in the description are your bidding on the frame. They are waiting for some poor fool to bid on it send him/her the frame and when the person complains that they received just the frame there gonna say read the description it says your bidding on the frame. From what it looks like is he wins, you guys are arguing about the item if it's real mean while the seller is trying to get over on the wording.

Nah, you are wrong. Look:

"The item up for bid is extremely rare and very impressive in its Elaborate Custom Frame. Truly the Center Piece to Any Collection! Featured in this auction is a #34 Bears Home jersey with GSH (George S. Halas) initials on the sleeve that was worn by Walter Payton during the 1985 Chicago Bears Championship season."

"The jersey up for auction is from the 1985 season in which the Chicago Bears went 15-1 to become Superbowl Champions. In 1985 Walter Payton rushed for over 1500 yards and 9 TD’s with almost 500 total receiving yards."

I don't think you are right on that one...

By the way, the seller still have not responded to my requests about the tagging and shipping w/o a frame.

suave1477
01-18-2006, 03:45 PM
Dear TRSENT you got me on this one, not cuz you right 100%. I just checked the ad again to make sure and it was re-worded from when i last saw it when i wrote my post. I can tell this bcuz not only have the words changed but so did the font. I got a funny feeling its someone in gameusedforum and they are reading what we are saying!!! Trsent you are right I am wrong / but thats cuz it was changed

trsent
01-18-2006, 03:49 PM
Dear TRSENT you got me on this one, not cuz you right 100%. I just checked the ad again to make sure and it was re-worded from when i last saw it when i wrote my post. I can tell this bcuz not only have the words changed but so did the font. I got a funny feeling its someone in gameusedforum and they are reading what we are saying!!! Trsent you are right I am wrong / but thats cuz it was changed

Funny thing is it is not who is right or who is wrong, the seller has ignored my two requests for more information about the tagging and if they will discount shipping if the jersey is shipped without the frame.

I am interested in bidding, but oh well, if they can't communicate with me on a big ticket item, no big deal, I can be finished with the item.