ARODS Bush League Moment Again lol lol

[suave1477]

Well just in case anyone missed it, I thought I would post it here.

I watched last nights Yankees game as Roger Clemens hosted the Pinstripes in the Park as to be witnessng another Yankees Classic game. Not beacause of the playing of the Yankees or some kind of magical comeback but because AROD made another bush league move to rank right up there with the time he tried to smack the ball out of the first basemans hand from the Red Sox/ Yankees game

This was so classic I fell off the chair laughing that it actually made me start to like AROD.:p

A-Rod defends controversial shout
Yankees third baseman cites frequency of similar plays
By Bryan Hoch / MLB.com
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"I get screamed at all the time on the field," said Alex Rodriguez (13) on Wednesday night. (Adrian Wyld/AP)

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TORONTO -- The Yankees' desperation to win a game was so great, Alex Rodriguez reasoned, that he was willing to try anything to make it happen -- even yelling into the ear of an infielder trying to catch a pop fly.

The Blue Jays didn't have quite the same understanding, and by the end of the evening, Rodriguez again found himself in the middle of a heated situation. Rodriguez's verbal interference with Toronto third baseman Howie Clark was a debated side note to the Yankees' 10-5 victory at Rogers Centre on Wednesday.
"I haven't been around that long -- maybe I'm naïve," Blue Jays manager John Gibbons said. "But it's bush league. Everybody in this business, they all look at the Yankees -- they do things right. They play hard. Class operation. That's what the Yanks are known for. That's not Yankee baseball."
In the midst of a five-game losing streak and hoping to avoid being swept in a three-game series by the Blue Jays, Rodriguez had provided a measure of insurance with a run-scoring single in the ninth inning off Toronto reliever Scott Downs.
The Blue Jays turned the pitching over to Brian Wolfe, making his Major League debut, who induced his first batter, Jorge Posada, to hit a sky-high pop to the left side of the infield.
With two outs, Rodriguez was off and running, and as he passed the third baseman Clark, who had his contract purchased earlier in the day from Triple-A Syracuse, Rodriguez made a noise, which Clark said was, "Mine," prompting the infielder to abandon pursuit of the popup.
The ball dropped in for an infield single, scoring Hideki Matsui. Jason Giambi followed with a two-run single to center that extended New York's lead.
"I was just excited running around third base," Rodriguez said. "If you see the video, when the ball bounced, I was past third base. More than anything, I was just surprised."
Asked what he hoped to accomplish on the play, Rodriguez commented once that he didn't know what his intentions were, but also said, "To win a game. We're desperate. We haven't won a game in a little bit now, so we won the game."
While many voices in the Toronto clubhouse said it was the first time they've seen a tactic like that used at the Major League level, Rodriguez insisted the play is not uncommon.
"In a situation like that, that play happens to me three or four times a week, except it's not at third base -- [it's] over by the dugout, foul territory," Rodriguez said. "Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. ... I get screamed at all the time on the field."
Toronto shortstop John McDonald and Gibbons both addressed Rodriguez's actions as the All-Star stood at third base, trying to stifle a grin, but A-Rod said he wasn't able to hear what the comments referred to.
He also refuted claims from the Blue Jays clubhouse that said Rodriguez had yelled, "Mine," in Clark's ear, saying that the sound he made was more like, "Ha."
"I couldn't care less -- they have their opinions," Rodriguez said. "We're looking not to be swept. It really didn't make a difference. We won."
Gibbons heatedly argued the call on the field with the umpiring crew, and Yankees manager Joe Torre's reaction to the play was mixed. Torre said that the Yankees' bench "didn't hear anything or see anything," but acknowledged that Rodriguez must have made a noise.
"I don't know what to feel," Torre said. "It's baseball. It's not like he said, 'I got it.' He didn't say that. He just made a noise. When catchers come over to the opposite dugout, everyone's saying, 'I got it, I got it, I got it.'"
The play is the latest in a list of incidents that opponents have found questionable in Rodriguez's career. Most notably, Rodriguez was called out for interference in Game 6 of the 2004 ALCS against the Red Sox as he tried to slap a ball out of pitcher Bronson Arroyo's glove.
Rodriguez was also questioned by Boston infielder Dustin Pedroia after a May 22 game, claiming that a play in which Rodriguez threw an elbow to break up a double play was "cheap."
As for Wednesday's events, Rodriguez compared the play to Aaron Hill's daring steal of home plate in the previous night's Blue Jays victory, when the second baseman took a walking lead behind pitcher Andy Pettitte's back and slid home safely to give Toronto a lead.
That play made its way onto the nightly highlight reels. Assuredly, so will Rodriguez's.
"Yesterday, they made a great play stealing home," Rodriguez said. "They did some great things yesterday, and I tip my cap to them. It's something that'll be unique, something you don't see every day. Those guys have their opinion, and our guys have ours. I'm fine with that."
Yankees captain Derek Jeter declined to comment on the play, instructing reporters to ask Rodriguez's opinion instead. A few lockers away, Yankees center fielder Johnny Damon smirked, trying unsuccessfully to hide the same type of devious smile Rodriguez had in the ninth inning. "It worked out great for us," Damon said. "Posada got a base hit and Giambi got to drive in two runs. I thought it was good for our hitters."

[sfgiants452]

When I saw this last night I was completely disgusted. That isnt the way baseball should be played...that is a childish thing to do and a cheap way of playing the game. I shook off what he did before when he was trying to slap the ball out of the glove because I knew he was better than that, apparently I was wrong. Everyone talks about Bonds disrespecting game (no I am not defending Barry) but this is also disrespect to the game as well. So for me it's strike 2 for A-rod.

Anthony

[jon_8_us]

Check out this story from the New York post about Arod and his cheating ways....
Can it get any worse for the Yankees right now??.......I hope so :)

http://www.nypost.com/seven/05312007/news/worldnews/a_rod_playing_field_all_over_worldnews_austin_fenn er_in_toronto________and_jana_winter_and________da n_mangan_in_n_y_.htm

[staindsox]

It was cheap and I'm not defending Arod, but like the Cubs/Bartman incident, the blame is on the players for botching the play. That B.S. happens in grade school. If those two idiots fell for something that juvenile, they can only blame themselves.

[Yankwood]

Truth be known players yell "MINE" and "I GOT IT!" all the time but most players never fall for it. There is no crime here for that. If one of the old timers pulled it off they would have commended him for heady play. No big Arod fan here, just telling it like it is, as Howard Cosell used to say.

[JETEFAN]

I agree with Yankwood, it happens all the time, and if I am not mistaken the picture of A-Rod with the blonde is actually him an his mom. Being from Miami, A-Rod is here often with that same blonde and has always introduced her as his mom.:D

[hblakewolf]

Jeterfan-

Unless A-Rod's mother gave birth when she was 3, I seriously doubt that the hot blond in the photos is actually his mother.

The latest reports have A-Rod's real wife packin' her bags. She was seen on Wednesday leaving their home with bags in hand.

Even if his wife divorces him, do you think he really cares? So he gives her $15MM/year, he keeps $15MM and he expand his "A list" of hot babes.

Life could be worse.......

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[3arod13]

Although I don't care much for what he did myself, what do you call it when a player fakes throwing the ball back to the pitcher, and then tags the player when he steps off the bag? Or when a player is at the plate and the catcher is verbally harassing (interferring with the batters concentration) them? Or a player faking that the ball is being thrown into the infield to throw off the runner?

I always thought that was bush league also. Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending arod, but there are many other things players do to mess with others on the field. Just my thoughts.

[cjclong]

As long as a player isn't charged with a criminal offense does it make any difference what their private life is? The players in the Hall of Fame number some who were great human beings and some who weren't. Its obvious that if you had a detective follow around people ins politics, entertainment and sports you would find people who have less than perfect private lives. For the person who said "can it get worse for the Yankees" why does a players private life matter to a team unless they are involved in criminal activity or something that detracts from their ability to play their sport. It doesn't cost the team an out or give up a run. Its great when a player proves to be an exceptionally fine human being and their are some players I like and admire more than others because they are exceptionally good people. I wish their were more of them. But the fact so many people seem interested in celebrities private lives means they must not have much to occupy their time. As far as Rodriguez yelling at the third baseman, is there a rule against it? Apparantly not. If no rule against it then it wasn't cheating. I wonder how many fans are outraged by Arod and yet wouldn't say a word if a pitcher for their team threw at batter's head, something that could harm or even kill a player.

[3arod13]

Truth be known players yell "MINE" and "I GOT IT!" all the time but most players never fall for it. There is no crime here for that. If one of the old timers pulled it off they would have commended him for heady play. No big Arod fan here, just telling it like it is, as Howard Cosell used to say.

Well said!

[3arod13]

As long as a player isn't charged with a criminal offense does it make any difference what their private life is? The players in the Hall of Fame number some who were great human beings and some who weren't. Its obvious that if you had a detective follow around people ins politics, entertainment and sports you would find people who have less than perfect private lives. For the person who said "can it get worse for the Yankees" why does a players private life matter to a team unless they are involved in criminal activity or something that detracts from their ability to play their sport. It doesn't cost the team an out or give up a run. Its great when a player proves to be an exceptionally fine human being and their are some players I like and admire more than others because they are exceptionally good people. I wish their were more of them. But the fact so many people seem interested in celebrities private lives means they must not have much to occupy their time. As far as Rodriguez yelling at the third baseman, is there a rule against it? Apparantly not. If no rule against it then it wasn't cheating. I wonder how many fans are outraged by Arod and yet wouldn't say a word if a pitcher for their team threw at batter's head, something that could harm or even kill a player.

Good thing those who throw stones don't live in a glass house. How many reporters, broadcasters, etc. do you think aren't and/or don't do this themselves. Easy to throw stones at others as long as their little secrets aren't out there. Wonder how they (reporters) would like it if someone followed them around an dug a little deep into their closet.
What a wonderful society we live in.

Cheating isn't a good thing, but it's between the married couple...not anyone else! I couldn't care less.

[Yankwood]

I agree with Yankwood, it happens all the time, and if I am not mistaken the picture of A-Rod with the blonde is actually him an his mom. Being from Miami, A-Rod is here often with that same blonde and has always introduced her as his mom.:DActually the "woman" he is pictured here with is in reality, a man. His name is Melvin Schmeddlapp and he is an interior decorator from Manhattan. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[3arod13]

There's even a possibility that there are people in this forum who may be doing the same, yet bashing arod. Who cares what you do outside this forum in your personal life and/or what he does in his.

In the Navy, we have Sailor of the Quarter Boards to recognized and select our top Sailors. I remember during this one selection board, we had a person who didn't agree with our selection because how this person dressed on their off time. Now, this person was the sharpest, hardworking individual in our command. Above and beyond at all times. Yet, someone wanted to take all of that and throw it away because of how the person dressed in there off time. Give me a break! Glad to say the person was selected!

[Yankwood]

A good man is hard to find.....

[Nathan]

If Jeter were yelling at opposing players, all we'd hear about is "heads-up play" and "doing what it takes to win". Perfect example here of how a lot of people simply don't like Rodriguez for whatever reason.

[suave1477]

Nathan the difference is Jeter wouldn't do something like that. So thats actually not a good example.
Thats the difference between the 2.

How many times in ARODS career have you seen AROD make a bush League move - quite a few and 2 including this one that comes to mind already this season.

How many have you seen Jeter do? to the best of my recollection NONE.

So thats part of the reason why 1 may be preferred over the other. It's not for no reason.

[3arod13]

I'll say it one last time. If Jeter would have started his career in Seattle, Baltimore, Cleveland, Boston, wherever, he wouldn't be recognized as he is today in New York. Being in New York, and the New York Yankee fans made him the so-called great player he is considered today. There is a reason his fellow baseball players rated in the #1 overrated player. Anywhere else, he is just an average shortstop. Hey, how many MVP's does Jeter have? Jeter has the recogition of the best shortstop now, only because arod moved to 3rd.

[camarokids]

People making a lot out of nothing . The guy for the Blue Jays shouldn't have fell for it . LIke others have said , others do it , plus it is not against the rules.

As far as him cheating on his wife , he picked a fine example of the female species to do it with , she's smokin hot . She got the ultimate souvenir a ball player could give away (one that I wouldn't want, I'll stick with baseball bats). Apparently she's getting it quite often .....

I am sure his wife will be just fine . Hire herself the best attorney , she won't need to work a day in her life.....

[hblakewolf]

A good frind of mine works for the Seattle Mariners, and has since the late 1980's. This person has told me countless stories about how self-centered A-Rod is. He only cares about himself and being in the spotlight. A perfect example relates to him showing up 2 hours late at the Kingdome to meet a group of kids for a charity event. Although he came late, he only spent a minute with them and never appologized. He was asked several times to meet kids before the game, and usually came up with some type of excuse to get out of it.

According to this person, he is one of the most hated players in the game by his fellow teammates and other players. They basically consider him a pretty boy and does not care about the team-only himself.

Don't feel sorry for him-he's not admired by too many people, and now gets photographed with an unknown lady after going to a strip club with her. Maybe his wife is the latest who has no respect for him.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[David]

Listen to infield chatter towards the batter and explain how that is different than what ARod did.

[3arod13]

A good frind of mine works for the Seattle Mariners, and has since the late 1980's. This person has told me countless stories about how self-centered A-Rod is. He only cares about himself and being in the spotlight. A perfect example relates to him showing up 2 hours late at the Kingdome to meet a group of kids for a charity event. Although he came late, he only spent a minute with them and never appologized. He was asked several times to meet kids before the game, and usually came up with some type of excuse to get out of it.

According to this person, he is one of the most hated players in the game by his fellow teammates and other players. They basically consider him a pretty boy and does not care about the team-only himself.

Don't feel sorry for him-he's not admired by too many people, and now gets photographed with an unknown lady after going to a strip club with her. Maybe his wife is the latest who has no respect for him.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

Howard, without question, you are the #1 Arod hater. In every threat you have written or responded too, it's always the same.

Jealousy is what it's mostly about. I find it interesting that with Seattle and Texas, whether in a slump or not, he was never treated by fans or the media like he has in NY. Simply put...jealously and hatred!

Arod, even in what people call him having a bad year, pounds numbers that other players wish they could reach. Who cares about his so called mass producing of his memorabilia...his big contract...his always critized pretty boy looks, etc. IT'S ABOUT BASEBALL!! BASBALL I SAY...BASEBALL! Don't care if he gives to charity...cheats on his wife...thinks he's gods gift to manhood...I DON'T CARE! IT'S ABOUT THE GAME!

[kellsox]

Arod, even in what people call him having a bad year, pounds numbers that other players wish they could reach. Who cares about his so called mass producing of his memorabilia...his big contract...his always critized pretty boy looks, etc. IT'S ABOUT BASEBALL!! BASBALL I SAY...BASEBALL! Don't care if he gives to charity...cheats on his wife...thinks he's gods gift to manhood...I DON'T CARE! IT'S ABOUT THE GAME![/quote]


his numbers are exactly that, just numbers. He has never won anything and it looks like he won't be winning a championship anytime soon. If its about the game then his #'s indicate that he is a pure individual playing in a team sport. He can poison his next team when he opts out of his contract at the end of the year- hopefully it won't be the red sox
kelly

[hblakewolf]

Howard, without question, you are the #1 Arod hater. In every threat you have written or responded too, it's always the same.

Jealousy is what it's mostly about. I find it interesting that with Seattle and Texas, whether in a slump or not, he was never treated by fans or the media like he has in NY. Simply put...jealously and hatred!

Arod, even in what people call him having a bad year, pounds numbers that other players wish they could reach. Who cares about his so called mass producing of his memorabilia...his big contract...his always critized pretty boy looks, etc. IT'S ABOUT BASEBALL!! BASBALL I SAY...BASEBALL! Don't care if he gives to charity...cheats on his wife...thinks he's gods gift to manhood...I DON'T CARE! IT'S ABOUT THE GAME!

3Arod-Sounds lke you have a great perspective on those positive traits that make baseball players the true stars that they are.


Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[3arod13]

Howard, without question, you are the #1 Arod hater. In every threat you have written or responded too, it's always the same.

Jealousy is what it's mostly about. I find it interesting that with Seattle and Texas, whether in a slump or not, he was never treated by fans or the media like he has in NY. Simply put...jealously and hatred!

Arod, even in what people call him having a bad year, pounds numbers that other players wish they could reach. Who cares about his so called mass producing of his memorabilia...his big contract...his always critized pretty boy looks, etc. IT'S ABOUT BASEBALL!! BASBALL I SAY...BASEBALL! Don't care if he gives to charity...cheats on his wife...thinks he's gods gift to manhood...I DON'T CARE! IT'S ABOUT THE GAME!

3Arod-Sounds lke you have a great perspective on those positive traits that make baseball players the true stars that they are.


Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

All those things are nice, but I'm a baseball fan! Not a character fan! He works hard, plays hard, and plays to win. Although I wouldn't do some of those things he did, like swat the ball, however, many players slide in, even worse than arod did, and many yell and distract other players, so let's not make so much out of this. Bottom line, many hate arod, and that's a fact. Whether it's the money, looks, skills, whatever...many just hate arod.

[3arod13]

Arod, even in what people call him having a bad year, pounds numbers that other players wish they could reach. Who cares about his so called mass producing of his memorabilia...his big contract...his always critized pretty boy looks, etc. IT'S ABOUT BASEBALL!! BASBALL I SAY...BASEBALL! Don't care if he gives to charity...cheats on his wife...thinks he's gods gift to manhood...I DON'T CARE! IT'S ABOUT THE GAME!


his numbers are exactly that, just numbers. He has never won anything and it looks like he won't be winning a championship anytime soon. If its about the game then his #'s indicate that he is a pure individual playing in a team sport. He can poison his next team when he opts out of his contract at the end of the year- hopefully it won't be the red sox
kelly[/quote]

Don't hold your breath, because if he leaves NY, which he will this year...he just may end up with the Red Sox! Go get your hats early!

[3arod13]

Arod, even in what people call him having a bad year, pounds numbers that other players wish they could reach. Who cares about his so called mass producing of his memorabilia...his big contract...his always critized pretty boy looks, etc. IT'S ABOUT BASEBALL!! BASBALL I SAY...BASEBALL! Don't care if he gives to charity...cheats on his wife...thinks he's gods gift to manhood...I DON'T CARE! IT'S ABOUT THE GAME!


He can poison his next team when he opts out of his contract at the end of the year- hopefully it won't be the red sox
kelly[/quote]

Arod hasn't poisoned his team (NYY), NY fans and the media poisned the NYY's and Arod. Now that's a fact!

[kellsox]

He can poison his next team when he opts out of his contract at the end of the year- hopefully it won't be the red sox
kelly

Arod hasn't poisoned his team (NYY), NY fans and the media poisned the NYY's and Arod. Now that's a fact![/quote]

How has the media "poisoned" arod and the NYY??????? They won World Series not too long before they got him- did the NY media suddleny get so brutal that the Yankees could no longer win??? Arod has won MVPs and put up numbers in NY so how has the media effected him???? He has never been on a championship team- that is the fact

[kingjammy24]

"Who cares about his so called mass producing of his memorabilia...his big contract...his always critized pretty boy looks, etc. IT'S ABOUT BASEBALL!! BASBALL I SAY...BASEBALL! Don't care if he gives to charity...cheats on his wife...thinks he's gods gift to manhood...I DON'T CARE! IT'S ABOUT THE GAME!"

hi tony,

i find that statement of yours interesting. personally, i believe that, for the most part, it is about the game. i'm there to watch baseball and whether a player is surly or nice or an idiot or not is pretty much irrelevant. fact is, i don't know the players and i hardly think the sports media is a great source of objective info from which i ought to draw my opinions. however, every now and then, a player will so completely cross the line of human decency that, for me, it would be absurd to turn a blind eye and pretend it's just about the game. darryl strawberry and michael vick come to mind. beyond any subjective or trivial notions of stupidity or rudeness, vick is such an incredibly reprehensible and vile piece of crap that for me to watch him solely as a quarterback would be disingenious and impossible as a human being.
are people really expected to watch games and actually pretend to forget that they're watching a completely depraved person? "well he's smacked his wife around, smacked his pregnant girlfriend around, committed adultery, shoved half of columbia up his nose, neglected to support his kids, etc.. but wow what a sweet swing!". it's a little absurd isn't it? it's like some fantasy bubble where people are somehow expected to forget shocking realities and focus solely on relatively trivial things; to cheer a player who, in his free time, trains dogs to tear themselves apart for his amusement. at some point, for me, on-field performance becomes completely meaningless in light of a players off-field activities because i can't somehow pretend, for a couple of hours, not to have any sense of morality or disgust.
do you ever draw the line? or is it always about the game? could arod ever do anything to make you feel that, in light of his offenses, his baseball skills are meaningless?

i'm genuinely curious.

thanks,

rudy.

[Nathan]

his numbers are exactly that, just numbers. He has never won anything and it looks like he won't be winning a championship anytime soon. If its about the game then his #'s indicate that he is a pure individual playing in a team sport. He can poison his next team when he opts out of his contract at the end of the year- hopefully it won't be the red sox
kelly

No, numbers are a reflection of actual on-field productivity. Rodriguez is every bit the hitter and fielder that Jeter is except Rodriguez has power.

Silly me, thinking that production reflects what kind of player you are.

[allstarsplus]

The Baseball Tonight crew on ESPN all sided with ARod. Dusty Baker said it happens all the time as guys yell it from the dugout and on the bases, but didn't think anyone ever fell for it----until now. Fernando Vina agreed.

The segment ran with video of the hidden ball trick which was humerous.

[suave1477]

TO 3AROD AND NATHAN

I find your point of views of AROD very interesting
3AROD TALKING ABOUT NUMBERS HE PUTS UP
NATHAN TALKING ABOUT POWER THAT HE HAS AND HOW PEOPLE WOULD TREAT JETER IF HE DID THE SAME THING AS AROD.

HERE IS MY REBUTTLE TO BOTH OF YOU
3AROD - NUMBERS??????? AS FAR AS IM CONCERNED WHAT NUMBERS????
1) HERES A NUMBER FOR YOU: IN 2006 SEASON AROD WAS #6 IN THE WHOLE LEAGUE (THE WHOLE LEAGUE) IN HITTING BALLS INTO DOUBLE PLAYS - WHICH MEANS NOT ONLY DID HE CAUSE HIMSELF TO BE OUT HE ALSO HURT HIS TEAMATES CHANCES.
2) HERES ANOTHER NUMBER TO LOOK FOR IN ALL HIS SEASONS WITH THE YANKEES IN CLUTCH SITUATIONS WHEN HE WAS NEEDED MOST WHEN IT WAS 2 OUTS AND HES UP TO BAT (KISS IT A GOOD NIGHT - GAMES OVER BECAUSE AROD IS A GAURANTEED CHOKE):eek:
3) LETS TALK ABOUT WHEN THE PLAYOFFS ARE HERE (YELL AROD) - ECHO ECHO ECHO ANYONE SEEN AROD:confused:
4) LETS TALK ABOUT ALL THE HOME RUNS HE HIT IN 2006 35 OR HOW ABOUT 2005 48 WOW HE HIT THAT MANY HOME RUNS TOO BAD NONE OF THEM WERE WHEN WE NEEDED THEM WHEN WE WERE DOWN BY A RUN OR 2
NO HE HITS HOME RUNS WHEN WERE BLOWING OUT THE OTHER TEAM ALREADY BY 10 RUNS "GEE THANKS AROD FOR TACKING ON ANOTHER RUN":rolleyes:

NATHAN - POWER??? YEAH THATS WONDERFUL CAN YOU ASK AROD TO USE HIS POWER WHEN WE NEED IT
JETER WOULDNT GET THE SAME TREATMENT IF HE DID WHAT AROD DOES - I THINK THATS THE SELF EXPLANATORY - BECAUSE IT'S WHAT AROD DOES NOT JETER

LETS ASK THE GENERAL QUESTION WHY IS AROD SO HATED???

ITS PRETTY SIMPLE HERE IS A GUY WHO DEMANDS THE HIGHEST SALARY TO PLAY ON A TEAM AND PRODUCES ONLY FOR HIMSELF - NOW YOU CAN ARGUE WELL THE YANKEES ARE ONLY PAYING HALF HIS SALARY THERE NOT REALLY PAYING HIM THAT MUCH BUT GUESS WHAT YOU WANTED TO COME TO THE YANKESS YOU ALREADY KNEW THEY ARE A HIGH PRESSURE TEAM FROM THE FANS AND MANAGEMENT - IT WASNT A SECRET HE KNEW WHAT HE WAS GETTING IN TOO. HE SHOULD HAVE REALLY THOUGHT ABOUT IF HE IS GOING TO BE ABLE TO HANDLE THE PRESSURES OF BEING EXPECTED A LOT FROM. NO HERES WHAT HE THOUGHT WHAT OTHER TEAM CAN AFFORD TO PAY THE OTHER HALF OF MY SALARY??? "OH YEAH THE YANKEES ILL GO THERE"
WRRRRRRRONG WE ACTUALLY EXPECT YOU TO BE ABLE TO PLAY WHEN WE NEED YOU!!!!!:eek:

[Nathan]

TO 3AROD AND NATHAN

I find your point of views of AROD very interesting
3AROD TALKING ABOUT NUMBERS HE PUTS UP
NATHAN TALKING ABOUT POWER THAT HE HAS AND HOW PEOPLE WOULD TREAT JETER IF HE DID THE SAME THING AS AROD.

HERE IS MY REBUTTLE TO BOTH OF YOU
3AROD - NUMBERS??????? AS FAR AS IM CONCERNED WHAT NUMBERS????
1) HERES A NUMBER FOR YOU: IN 2006 SEASON AROD WAS #6 IN THE WHOLE LEAGUE (THE WHOLE LEAGUE) IN HITTING BALLS INTO DOUBLE PLAYS - WHICH MEANS NOT ONLY DID HE CAUSE HIMSELF TO BE OUT HE ALSO HURT HIS TEAMATES CHANCES.
2) HERES ANOTHER NUMBER TO LOOK FOR IN ALL HIS SEASONS WITH THE YANKEES IN CLUTCH SITUATIONS WHEN HE WAS NEEDED MOST WHEN IT WAS 2 OUTS AND HES UP TO BAT (KISS IT A GOOD NIGHT - GAMES OVER BECAUSE AROD IS A GAURANTEED CHOKE):eek:
3) LETS TALK ABOUT WHEN THE PLAYOFFS ARE HERE (YELL AROD) - ECHO ECHO ECHO ANYONE SEEN AROD:confused:
4) LETS TALK ABOUT ALL THE HOME RUNS HE HIT IN 2006 35 OR HOW ABOUT 2005 48 WOW HE HIT THAT MANY HOME RUNS TOO BAD NONE OF THEM WERE WHEN WE NEEDED THEM WHEN WE WERE DOWN BY A RUN OR 2
NO HE HITS HOME RUNS WHEN WERE BLOWING OUT THE OTHER TEAM ALREADY BY 10 RUNS "GEE THANKS AROD FOR TACKING ON ANOTHER RUN":rolleyes:

NATHAN - POWER??? YEAH THATS WONDERFUL CAN YOU ASK AROD TO USE HIS POWER WHEN WE NEED IT
JETER WOULDNT GET THE SAME TREATMENT IF HE DID WHAT AROD DOES - I THINK THATS THE SELF EXPLANATORY - BECAUSE IT'S WHAT AROD DOES NOT JETER

LETS ASK THE GENERAL QUESTION WHY IS AROD SO HATED???

ITS PRETTY SIMPLE HERE IS A GUY WHO DEMANDS THE HIGHEST SALARY TO PLAY ON A TEAM AND PRODUCES ONLY FOR HIMSELF - NOW YOU CAN ARGUE WELL THE YANKEES ARE ONLY PAYING HALF HIS SALARY THERE NOT REALLY PAYING HIM THAT MUCH BUT GUESS WHAT YOU WANTED TO COME TO THE YANKESS YOU ALREADY KNEW THEY ARE A HIGH PRESSURE TEAM FROM THE FANS AND MANAGEMENT - IT WASNT A SECRET HE KNEW WHAT HE WAS GETTING IN TOO. HE SHOULD HAVE REALLY THOUGHT ABOUT IF HE IS GOING TO BE ABLE TO HANDLE THE PRESSURES OF BEING EXPECTED A LOT FROM. NO HERES WHAT HE THOUGHT WHAT OTHER TEAM CAN AFFORD TO PAY THE OTHER HALF OF MY SALARY??? "OH YEAH THE YANKEES ILL GO THERE"
WRRRRRRRONG WE ACTUALLY EXPECT YOU TO BE ABLE TO PLAY WHEN WE NEED YOU!!!!!:eek:

I think you've been around here long enough to know to turn the caps lock key off, so I won't bother bringing that up.

It's funny because as soon as I hit "submit" on my last post, I started looking for a way to edit it before remembering that I couldn't. What I was going to add was "This is pre-emptive before some buffoon brings up the illogical notion of 'clutch play'".

1) What's your point? If the best knock against a guy's production is hitting into double plays, that's not much of a case. I could unearth someone who never gets a GIDP because his average is around .170 and he strikes out a ton. Why not tell us who had more GIDP? Oh yeah....Troy Glaus, Paul Konerko, Miguel Tejada, Michael Young, and Victor Martinez. What a bunch of scrubs they are.

2) Blah blah blah, "clutch". "Clutch play" is the sports equivalent of "Oh yeah, well my dad can beat up your dad". You can't prove a point, so you concoct some fantasy about "clutch play". (This isn't just you personally, it's a lot of people who consider themselves intelligent and knowledgeable).

If a guy has 6 RBIs on the night and strikes out to end the game, how on earth can you say he's not "clutch"? He's done an awful lot to that point and the failure of his teammates to pull their weight is ridiculous. It sounds like Skip Bayless's anti-Lebron rants.

Should I bring up someone like Mariano Rivera? The guy has this "clutch" reputation, and the ONE TIME that he was in the ultimate "clutch" situation (Bottom 9, Game 7 World Series, 2001) he gagged away a one-run lead to the freakin' Arizona Diamondbacks. Does anyone go "Boy, he's awful when it really matters"? Of course not, even though Rivera was the primary cause of losing a World Series by blowing the "clutch situation".

3) Rodriguez has been terrific in the playoffs with the exception of two series (2005 and 2006 ALDS). Jeter was atrocious in the 2001 ALCS and World Series, both of which certainly seem to be more important than an ALDS. So I guess Jeter choked on the biggest stage of them all, didn't he?

4) See point #2. If you don't like Rodriguez, trade him for a Bernie Carbo clone, who's not anything good but dang it, he hit a big home run in one situation when the '75 Red Sox needed it.

Let's set a situation for you. Runner on first, bottom 9, two outs. Do you take your chances with Jeter, whose likely upside is to slap a single? That'll put the runner at second (possibly third). Or do you go with Rodriguez, who's far more likely to get the extra-base hit to score the runner? Both guys have fairly similar batting averages and OBPs, with Rodriguez having the power.

Of course, your likely retort will be "Jeter would hit a home run because he's CLUTCH, but Rodriguez would strike out and then go punch a nun because he's GARBAGE!"

5) If you want to talk demands, how about ripping Roger Clemens? He's making as much as Rodriguez while playing roughly 130 fewer games.

If Yankees fans want to demonstrate idiocy by rejecting one of the two best players in baseball today (Pujols being the other), that's their prerogative. Red Sox fans did the same thing with Ted Williams so at least there's precedent.

[3arod13]

"Who cares about his so called mass producing of his memorabilia...his big contract...his always critized pretty boy looks, etc. IT'S ABOUT BASEBALL!! BASBALL I SAY...BASEBALL! Don't care if he gives to charity...cheats on his wife...thinks he's gods gift to manhood...I DON'T CARE! IT'S ABOUT THE GAME!"

hi tony,

i find that statement of yours interesting. personally, i believe that, for the most part, it is about the game. i'm there to watch baseball and whether a player is surly or nice or an idiot or not is pretty much irrelevant. fact is, i don't know the players and i hardly think the sports media is a great source of objective info from which i ought to draw my opinions. however, every now and then, a player will so completely cross the line of human decency that, for me, it would be absurd to turn a blind eye and pretend it's just about the game. darryl strawberry and michael vick come to mind. beyond any subjective or trivial notions of stupidity or rudeness, vick is such an incredibly reprehensible and vile piece of crap that for me to watch him solely as a quarterback would be disingenious and impossible as a human being.
are people really expected to watch games and actually pretend to forget that they're watching a completely depraved person? "well he's smacked his wife around, smacked his pregnant girlfriend around, committed adultery, shoved half of columbia up his nose, neglected to support his kids, etc.. but wow what a sweet swing!". it's a little absurd isn't it? it's like some fantasy bubble where people are somehow expected to forget shocking realities and focus solely on relatively trivial things; to cheer a player who, in his free time, trains dogs to tear themselves apart for his amusement. at some point, for me, on-field performance becomes completely meaningless in light of a players off-field activities because i can't somehow pretend, for a couple of hours, not to have any sense of morality or disgust.
do you ever draw the line? or is it always about the game? could arod ever do anything to make you feel that, in light of his offenses, his baseball skills are meaningless?

i'm genuinely curious.

thanks,

rudy.

Rudy, well said. Yes, there are many things that arod does that I personally don't care for or wouldn't do myself. However, as a baseball fan, I care what he does on the field. If arod flipped fans the bird; spit on a player or umpire; threw his bat at a player or umpire; showed up late for games; refused to go onto the field; etc., then those things I care about as a baseball fan. Remeber, there are many HOFers who haven't played the game cleanly and/or had the best reputation and/or personal conduct.

Think about this. There are many good people in this forum. People share information and buy and sell from each other. We have many great converstations and some people even become good friends. Now let's have someone dig into their past and present life and put out all negative information about that person. All of a sudden, opinions are made and things change. Some may even refuse to chat with or deal with that person again. That's fine. We all have that right. However, for me as a collector, it's about collecting. If I knew you cheat on your wife (which I personally don't care for) and you have a GU Bat that I want for my collection, I'm buying it. Your personal business is your personal business. Has nothing to do with collecting. For me as a baseball fan, it's about baseball.

Peoples personal life is their personal life. Unfortunately, we live in a society where people love to openly and negatively judge others (even though they have their own skeletons in their closet).

Enjoyed the topic and reading all the comments and opinions.

[3arod13]

Rudy, well said. Yes, there are many things that arod does that I personally don't care for or wouldn't do myself. However, as a baseball fan, I care what he does on the field. If arod flipped fans the bird; spit on a player or umpire; threw his bat at a player or umpire; showed up late for games; refused to go onto the field; etc., then those things I care about as a baseball fan. Remeber, there are many HOFers who haven't played the game cleanly and/or had the best reputation and/or personal conduct.

Think about this. There are many good people in this forum. People share information and buy and sell from each other. We have many great converstations and some people even become good friends. Now let's have someone dig into their past and present life and put out all negative information about that person. All of a sudden, opinions are made and things change. Some may even refuse to chat with or deal with that person again. That's fine. We all have that right. However, for me as a collector, it's about collecting. If I knew you cheat on your wife (which I personally don't care for) and you have a GU Bat that I want for my collection, I'm buying it. Your personal business is your personal business. Has nothing to do with collecting. For me as a baseball fan, it's about baseball.

Peoples personal life is their personal life. Unfortunately, we live in a society where people love to openly and negatively judge others (even though they have their own skeletons in their closet).

Enjoyed the topic and reading all the comments and opinions.


Let me add that if I had an opportunity to hang out with and/or become friends with someone who conducts themselves in this manner, I would chose not to do so, as this would then personally affect my life.

My previous comments aren't to reflect that I don't care about this type conduct or that I simply don't care what people do. I do.

For me, It begins with the first pitch and ends with the last out. Before and after is their personal business. But yes, I don't like the many things I read in the media also. If it wasn't reported, we'd only be talking baseball.

[suave1477]

I think you've been around here long enough to know to turn the caps lock key off, so I won't bother bringing that up.

It's funny because as soon as I hit "submit" on my last post, I started looking for a way to edit it before remembering that I couldn't. What I was going to add was "This is pre-emptive before some buffoon brings up the illogical notion of 'clutch play'".

1) What's your point? If the best knock against a guy's production is hitting into double plays, that's not much of a case. I could unearth someone who never gets a GIDP because his average is around .170 and he strikes out a ton. Why not tell us who had more GIDP? Oh yeah....Troy Glaus, Paul Konerko, Miguel Tejada, Michael Young, and Victor Martinez. What a bunch of scrubs they are.

2) Blah blah blah, "clutch". "Clutch play" is the sports equivalent of "Oh yeah, well my dad can beat up your dad". You can't prove a point, so you concoct some fantasy about "clutch play". (This isn't just you personally, it's a lot of people who consider themselves intelligent and knowledgeable).

If a guy has 6 RBIs on the night and strikes out to end the game, how on earth can you say he's not "clutch"? He's done an awful lot to that point and the failure of his teammates to pull their weight is ridiculous. It sounds like Skip Bayless's anti-Lebron rants.

Should I bring up someone like Mariano Rivera? The guy has this "clutch" reputation, and the ONE TIME that he was in the ultimate "clutch" situation (Bottom 9, Game 7 World Series, 2001) he gagged away a one-run lead to the freakin' Arizona Diamondbacks. Does anyone go "Boy, he's awful when it really matters"? Of course not, even though Rivera was the primary cause of losing a World Series by blowing the "clutch situation".

3) Rodriguez has been terrific in the playoffs with the exception of two series (2005 and 2006 ALDS). Jeter was atrocious in the 2001 ALCS and World Series, both of which certainly seem to be more important than an ALDS. So I guess Jeter choked on the biggest stage of them all, didn't he?

4) See point #2. If you don't like Rodriguez, trade him for a Bernie Carbo clone, who's not anything good but dang it, he hit a big home run in one situation when the '75 Red Sox needed it.

Let's set a situation for you. Runner on first, bottom 9, two outs. Do you take your chances with Jeter, whose likely upside is to slap a single? That'll put the runner at second (possibly third). Or do you go with Rodriguez, who's far more likely to get the extra-base hit to score the runner? Both guys have fairly similar batting averages and OBPs, with Rodriguez having the power.

Of course, your likely retort will be "Jeter would hit a home run because he's CLUTCH, but Rodriguez would strike out and then go punch a nun because he's GARBAGE!"

5) If you want to talk demands, how about ripping Roger Clemens? He's making as much as Rodriguez while playing roughly 130 fewer games.

If Yankees fans want to demonstrate idiocy by rejecting one of the two best players in baseball today (Pujols being the other), that's their prerogative. Red Sox fans did the same thing with Ted Williams so at least there's precedent.

Nathan first I would like to say WOW WOW I couldnt believe what you wrote and I am assuming you beleive what you wrote. Did you read what you wrote before you hit the submit button lol lol

1) You said if my best knock on a guy is for causing into double plays??? Uh helooooo that is a big deal, it means he costs us a lot of games, so when a player can indivdually cause you a game uuuuh yeah that is a big deal. But I see your best retort is to point out other players, were not talking about other players were talking about AROD. You remind me of back in elementary school always looking for someone else to put blame on "but mikey did it" - I tell you what, I am gonna help you out lets talk about the other players Tejada, Glaus and others.... none of them are getting paid to produce like AROD.
2)Blah Blah Blah Clutch Play??? that is a huge deal since when has a clutch player been idiocrocy? Since when has that not been a needed talent of a player? You said what if AROD has 6 RBI'S in a game but doesn't come through in the clutch - well I have yet to see AROD bring in 6 RBI'S when we were down (find a better example). Here we go again you bring up another player because you really have nothing to positive say about ARODS clutch performance. So lets talk about Rivera, did he blow a huge game for us YES is that the norm for him NO. If Rivera stats is Blowing one huge game during his career compared to AROD losing us so many games during every season that it hinders our possibility of clinching, ILL TAKE RIVERA ANY DAY.
3) AROD has been terrific in the playoffs except for 2005 & 2006??? Uuum he's only been on the team 2004 2005 2006 so that means hes already hindered 2 out of the 3 seasons of playoffs, unless my math is wrong thats already 2/3 of his career with us - last time I checked thats not terrific.
Here we go again with you bringing up another player JETER, was he atrocious in the 2001 alcs and World Series are those bigger stages as you put it YES But guess what??? you need to win the ALDS first before you get to those which seems like AROD can't do. Lets not forget that Jeter who played bad in 2001 only previously helped us win 4 World Series but your right Jeter is horrible lol lol
4) In that clutch situation who would I rather see your right Jeter why would I want your so called POWER PLAYER AROD when all he will do is strike out into a double play when I can have Jeter who will get on base.
(To be honest with you I didnt even understand how you were trying to make #4 a good point???)
5) Here we go again talking about another player Clemens I never said I liked the fact of Clemens gettng paid so much but I am not the one who brokered the deal and we will see what he does come playing time.

NATHAN I got to hand it to you your points were completely empty. It amazes me how an AROD fan can back up there player with out having one good thing to say about there own player but to point out a negative of other players.
Nathan I think you have pointed out more players in your last argument then you even talked about anything positive about AROD. hmmmmmm wonder why?????

[3arod13]

I will also add one last thing. I too don't like that arod doesn't come through in the clutch at the most important times needed. Get frustrated when, the caliber player that he is, fails to make the difference in certain games. Yell at the TV when he makes an error that impacts the outcome of a game, etc. Those actions are all game related. But I also don't take those bad moments and totally forget all the other good things that he's done on the field and during his career. Yes, I know, Arod hasn't been involved in winning a world series (yet).

By the way, how quickly everyone forgot how arod made a big impact for the Yankees in April. Wonder how many games they would have lost if he didn't perform as he did (yes, I realize that didn't last long and that also frustrates me too, and I also realize it's not in the post season).

[cjclong]

After reading the discussion I would have to agree with a number of the writers that ARod is not the best "clutch hitter" in the game. I would much rather have Jeter in the 8th or 9th inning of a one run game. (And check his post season stats, he's hit a surprising number of homeruns). That being said there is something for homeruns and rbi's over the course of a year. Let's say your team is ahead 4-1 in the 5th inning and a batter , let's say ARod, hits a 3 run homerun to put his team ahead 7-1. Then over the last 3 innings the other team scores 4 runs. Going into the the 9th inning the score is 7-5 for ARods team. That 2 run lead in the 9th inning is important. If the lead holds ARods team wins. Also, a two run lead keeps the other team from playing for one run to tie. So sometimes numbers put up in the middle of a game determine the late inning outcome of the game often more than we realize. All those middle inning runs with a team ahead aren't meaningless. Enough "meaningless" runs in the middle innings can put the game out of reach so the 8th and 9th innings aren't as important. Would I rather have a player like Jeter or David Ortiz in the 9th. Sure. But hitters like ARod who put up big number during the year do contribute to a winning season, just not in the same dramatic way certain better clutch hitters do.

[suave1477]

3AROD ok at least you understand.

As far as his April month its not a matter of forgetting its a matter of AROD being AROD.
If you remember he did the same thing last year. In the begining of the season he jumped off to a huge lead in Home Runs and after the first month or 2 his bat went dead.
I remember last year all the talk with him hitting so many Home Runs in the begining and the media was saying "wow on his pace he's estimated to hit over 80 home runs". He ended up with 38.
I felt the same this season, I even got a little excited myself, I was like wow this may be ARODS turning point but I also said to myself remember what happened last year.
Looks like l was right!!! after April his bat just died.
I mean the way he was hitting home runs in April he was on a pace for over 100 this year. Looks like that's not gonna happen.

[suave1477]

cjclong thats a great scenario and I can agree with you fully but thas not what normally happens

In that same scenario it usually goes more like this game is up Yankees are winning 7 - 1. AROD hits 2 Home Runs in that game making it 9 - 1. Mean while the other team doesn't get a chance to score again because the whole Yankees team is so pumped there not letting anyone get steals, hits or anything.
And at the end of the everyone makes AROD the hero of the game because he hit 2 home runs to a game that we were already winning by other players who contributed more then he did.
THEN THERES THE NEXT NIGHT
We are playing the same team score is 3-2 from early in the game we got 1 out a man on first AROD up to bat - he swings and hits the ball into a double play.Hes out, the man on first is out and the inning is over.
I WOULD REPAT THIS 3 MORE TIMES BUT I DONT WANT TO TAKE UP TO MUCH SPACE - SO THE POINT IS
AROD goes 0-4 we lose the game 3-2

[3arod13]

3AROD ok at least you understand.

As far as his April month its not a matter of forgetting its a matter of AROD being AROD.
If you remember he did the same thing last year. In the begining of the season he jumped off to a huge lead in Home Runs and after the first month or 2 his bat went dead.
I remember last year all the talk with him hitting so many Home Runs in the begining and the media was saying "wow on his pace he's estimated to hit over 80 home runs". He ended up with 38.
I felt the same this season, I even got a little excited myself, I was like wow this may be ARODS turning point but I also said to myself remember what happened last year.
Looks like l was right!!! after April his bat just died.
I mean the way he was hitting home runs in April he was on a pace for over 100 this year. Looks like that's not gonna happen.

Fully understand. I'm a big arod fan and he frustrates the heck out of me also. How does someone with his ability, go so cold, so often for long period of time. Doesn't make sense to be, but I keep the faith.

[Nathan]

Nathan first I would like to say WOW WOW I couldnt believe what you wrote and I am assuming you beleive what you wrote. Did you read what you wrote before you hit the submit button lol lol

1) You said if my best knock on a guy is for causing into double plays??? Uh helooooo that is a big deal, it means he costs us a lot of games, so when a player can indivdually cause you a game uuuuh yeah that is a big deal. But I see your best retort is to point out other players, were not talking about other players were talking about AROD. You remind me of back in elementary school always looking for someone else to put blame on "but mikey did it" - I tell you what, I am gonna help you out lets talk about the other players Tejada, Glaus and others.... none of them are getting paid to produce like AROD.
2)Blah Blah Blah Clutch Play??? that is a huge deal since when has a clutch player been idiocrocy? Since when has that not been a needed talent of a player? You said what if AROD has 6 RBI'S in a game but doesn't come through in the clutch - well I have yet to see AROD bring in 6 RBI'S when we were down (find a better example). Here we go again you bring up another player because you really have nothing to positive say about ARODS clutch performance. So lets talk about Rivera, did he blow a huge game for us YES is that the norm for him NO. If Rivera stats is Blowing one huge game during his career compared to AROD losing us so many games during every season that it hinders our possibility of clinching, ILL TAKE RIVERA ANY DAY.
3) AROD has been terrific in the playoffs except for 2005 & 2006??? Uuum he's only been on the team 2004 2005 2006 so that means hes already hindered 2 out of the 3 seasons of playoffs, unless my math is wrong thats already 2/3 of his career with us - last time I checked thats not terrific.
Here we go again with you bringing up another player JETER, was he atrocious in the 2001 alcs and World Series are those bigger stages as you put it YES But guess what??? you need to win the ALDS first before you get to those which seems like AROD can't do. Lets not forget that Jeter who played bad in 2001 only previously helped us win 4 World Series but your right Jeter is horrible lol lol
4) In that clutch situation who would I rather see your right Jeter why would I want your so called POWER PLAYER AROD when all he will do is strike out into a double play when I can have Jeter who will get on base.
(To be honest with you I didnt even understand how you were trying to make #4 a good point???)
5) Here we go again talking about another player Clemens I never said I liked the fact of Clemens gettng paid so much but I am not the one who brokered the deal and we will see what he does come playing time.

NATHAN I got to hand it to you your points were completely empty. It amazes me how an AROD fan can back up there player with out having one good thing to say about there own player but to point out a negative of other players.
Nathan I think you have pointed out more players in your last argument then you even talked about anything positive about AROD. hmmmmmm wonder why?????

Of course I believe what I said, otherwise I wouldn't have said it.

1) How many times does a GIDP actually cost a team a game? A couple of runs (possibly), yes. But a game? Come on.

As for the other players I brought up, it proves a point. You make it sound like Rodriguez is alone at the top of a list with a bunch of scrubs. So you poke around and happen to find...one arbitrary number. The fact that in 2006, the guy hit into 22 double plays in 154 games. So, at best, that would mean that somehow Rodriguez single-handedly cost his team 1 in every 7 games. That'd come out to....what, a 132-22 record then in games that he played in?

2) You refer to "clutch play" as if it's something tangible and real. It's not. It's a philosophical illusion at best. Media snobs and people who want to look smart throw the label on anyone who they want to boost and reject it from anyone they want to cut down. If Rodriguez hit .550 with 9 home runs in the ALDS the last two years, you'd still be saying he's not "clutch" because the team didn't win.

3) No, I said Rodriguez has been terrific in every playoff series except for those two. What's more important, his MVP season of 2005 that, over 162 games, put the Yankees into the playoffs, or his 5-game performance in the ALDS? I'll point out that he still had a .381 OBP that series.

This is an example of why "clutch" is a bunch of horsedung. If Rodriguez has a decent year and the Yankees don't win as many games as a result (and miss the playoffs), then there is no playoff series to talk about. But because he performed at an MVP level to put the Yankees into the playoffs there became one. Take Rodriguez off the team the last two years and see how pathetic they would be. Heck, look at how pathetic they are this year even with him producing.

4) Um, whatever. The two players ground into double plays at pretty much exactly the same rate so one's not more likely than the other. The OBP is different by .003 so one's not really more likely to reach than the other. But the slugging percentage (which measures total bases) is 112 points higher for Rodriguez. Strikeouts aren't necessarily a bad thing simply because it prevents double plays and a player's ability to strike out doesn't offset an overall offensive picture.

5) Clemens will tank. He'll pitch roughly 120 innings and make $22 million. Based off your notion that Rodriguez doesn't produce what he gets paid to produce (which is absurd), Clemens will need to toss a no-hitter every time out, then do it in the postseason.

I'm not a Rodriguez fan, and I'm not a Yankees fan. To me there's nothing more soul-sucking than cheering for the Yankees, unless we're talking about the kind who are not only Yankees fans but also of Duke basketball, USC football, and the New England Patriots.

As for why I didn't "say anything positive" about Rodriguez, I don't need to. If people can't appreciate true greatness when they see it, that's not my issue. If Yankees fans can't appreciate a player who possesses every attribute of their golden boy (Jeter) except having a heck of a lot more power, it's not my place to sit here and try to prove why you should.

I have discussions like this with a friend on almost a nightly basis. This is an old argument for me.

[Nathan]

cjclong thats a great scenario and I can agree with you fully but thas not what normally happens

In that same scenario it usually goes more like this game is up Yankees are winning 7 - 1. AROD hits 2 Home Runs in that game making it 9 - 1. Mean while the other team doesn't get a chance to score again because the whole Yankees team is so pumped there not letting anyone get steals, hits or anything.
And at the end of the everyone makes AROD the hero of the game because he hit 2 home runs to a game that we were already winning by other players who contributed more then he did.
THEN THERES THE NEXT NIGHT
We are playing the same team score is 3-2 from early in the game we got 1 out a man on first AROD up to bat - he swings and hits the ball into a double play.Hes out, the man on first is out and the inning is over.
I WOULD REPAT THIS 3 MORE TIMES BUT I DONT WANT TO TAKE UP TO MUCH SPACE - SO THE POINT IS
AROD goes 0-4 we lose the game 3-2

That's quite the strawman. How many times has that happened? Look it up, don't be shy.

Also, to follow up to the most recent response above this, if you're going to use "clutch play" (not just you, anyone), please provide a working definition of what it is.

[bigtime59]

Miss Pay-Rod, primadonna that she is, still pines for the days when she and Derek Christ could have those fun-filled "sleepovers".
Sadly, those days are done. Now the league's most physically talented (and apparently tone-deaf) SS plays a mediocre 3b so the league's most overrated 2B can continue to play SS for the league's most self-important team.
I, for one, am tickled pink. However, I cannot for the life of me understand Miss Pay-Rod's predilection for East German women and silicone. Can you?????

[suave1477]

Nathan hey leave Strawman alone lol lol thats hitting below the belt lol:D
By the way in Strawmans defense he never demanded the highest salary just the best nose candy money can buy lol lol

Look I agree with you AROD is and probabaly the greatest talented player there is and will be for a long time in the game.

And you can deny all you want what a clutch hitter is and what the term means but you know as well as I do in that ILLUSIONAL IMAGINARY PLACE CALLED CLUTCH AROD IS NO WHERE TO BE FOUND.

You also asked me to define clutch for you. I think its pretty simple and I actually definied it already a couple of times here one which you chose to comment on.
Here is a perfect example you said so if AROD grounds into a double play it may cost a couple of runs but a game?????
YESSSSSSSSSS if were down by a run or 2 and he has the opportunity to tie us or lead us, guess what thats where those couple of runs costs us a game.
Also review the scnerario i revised to cjclong when we need just that one run to tie us or lead us. AROD goes 0-4
If were up by a lot and its not needed AROD hits to home runs and he is turned into a hero WHYYYYYYY

[staindsox]

The best shortstop in baseball...maybe ever (and i have a hard time saying that because i love honus wagner) is playing third base. If Jeter were that great, he would have moved. Hell, Hank Greenberg moved to left field for Rudy York to play first.

What about Cal Ripken? There was a huge whole on his side of the infield and he was hitting .220 at the end. The manager's couldn't manage because Cal actually ran the team. The Orioles may have been better off if Cal had ended the streak much earlier.

Babe Ruth, the most popular athlete ever? Well...read Creamer's book on him.

My point is that no athlete is the perfect role model. Anyone, no matter how perfect they appear, have their flaws. Yes, I've heard bad things about Cal Ripken, Michael Jordan, Wayne Gretzky...they are far more stable than the Albert Belles and Michael Vicks. I think you have to be overly confident and pretty self-absorbed to get as good as they are. Some just hide it better than others. These guys played sunrise to sunset every day when they were kids. Everything is second to their career. That is selfish in itself...but that's how they became superstars.

For example, I grew up loving Paul Molitor and Kirby Puckett. Everyone thought they were two of the greatest people in the game. Well, Kirby...everyone knows that story now. Paul did cocaine in the early 1980s, impregnanted a woman who was not his wife while playing for the Blue Jays, divorced, and is having a third child with another woman (I think he married her after his divorce went through). I don't think differently of them. They were my heroes and they were very kind to me when I met them. See, my heroes are flawed too.

I'm not writing to tear down other people's heroes. My point is that everyone has their flaws, even if you can't see them...even the Jeters and Ripkens. I think everyone needs to consider this before bashing a player because of a marital problem or "Hah." Anyone responding to this post defending Jeter, Ripken, or Ruth completely missed the point of what I'm saying.

Chris

[3arod13]

The best shortstop in baseball...maybe ever (and i have a hard time saying that because i love honus wagner) is playing third base. If Jeter were that great, he would have moved. Hell, Hank Greenberg moved to left field for Rudy York to play first.

What about Cal Ripken? There was a huge whole on his side of the infield and he was hitting .220 at the end. The manager's couldn't manage because Cal actually ran the team. The Orioles may have been better off if Cal had ended the streak much earlier.

Babe Ruth, the most popular athlete ever? Well...read Creamer's book on him.

My point is that no athlete is the perfect role model. Anyone, no matter how perfect they appear, have their flaws. Yes, I've heard bad things about Cal Ripken, Michael Jordan, Wayne Gretzky...they are far more stable than the Albert Belles and Michael Vicks. I think you have to be overly confident and pretty self-absorbed to get as good as they are. Some just hide it better than others. These guys played sunrise to sunset every day when they were kids. Everything is second to their career. That is selfish in itself...but that's how they became superstars.

For example, I grew up loving Paul Molitor and Kirby Puckett. Everyone thought they were two of the greatest people in the game. Well, Kirby...everyone knows that story now. Paul did cocaine in the early 1980s, impregnanted a woman who was not his wife while playing for the Blue Jays, divorced, and is having a third child with another woman (I think he married her after his divorce went through). I don't think differently of them. They were my heroes and they were very kind to me when I met them. See, my heroes are flawed too.

I'm not writing to tear down other people's heroes. My point is that everyone has their flaws, even if you can't see them...even the Jeters and Ripkens. I think everyone needs to consider this before bashing a player because of a marital problem or "Hah." Anyone responding to this post defending Jeter, Ripken, or Ruth completely missed the point of what I'm saying.

Chris

Chris, well said! Bravo! Bravo! My point all a long. Those actions by players of course aren't good, but I'm more interested in baseball! Well said!

[metsbats]

http://sports.aol.com/mlb/story/_a/torre-denounces-a-rods-shout-at-fielder/20070601185409990001?cid=561

This may be off topic now the way this thread has directed itself.

Interesting enough both Joe Torre and Brian Cashman are unfortunately in positions to potentially lose their jobs. More on Joe Torre's side however he was big enough to admit ARod was wrong and Cashman didn't think it was.

Just shows that even in the face of adversity Torre will stand behind his beliefs.

I'd personally love to know what The Boss thought of the "yell".

-David

[allstarsplus]

Just shows that even in the face of adversity Torre will stand behind his beliefs.

Managers should discipline behind closed doors. Shouldn't he stand behind his players in public? I love how Torre will criticize ARod, but when a real blatant incident of unsportsmanlike behavior happens like possibly ending a player's career from a beanball he says NOTHING. His pitcher throws a ball at a batter's face----no apologies at his press conference. For anyone who didn't see last nights Red Sox/Yankees games there was 5 hit batters and then in the 9th inning Scott Proctor threw a fastball towards the face of Kevin Youkilis who is the Red Sox hottest batter. Youkilis barely pulled away and got grazed on the shoulder. The umpire swiftly ejected Proctor and the benches cleared with no punches thrown.

Here's what Torre said in his news conference. Read between the lines because I am sure there will be more ejections this weekend. "I think we need to be a little more fiery," said Joe Torre. "I think we showed fight tonight. We need to assert ourselves ... just get that determination back," Torre said. "I hope we can build on this because we're good. We're much better than we've been playing, but obviously the results haven't shown."

No mention of not condoning beanballs. Interesting. He didn't have to say a word about ARod in public, but decided to while the night before on ESPN former Manager Dusty Baker says the jeers from players go on all the time and the ARod incident was no big deal which has been reiterated by many that play the game.

Yes what ARod did was unsportsmanlike but unsportsmanlike acts go on all the time---unfortunately. Throwing a fastball near the head region of any batter could end a career and is a cowardly act of the highest level of unsportsmanlike conduct.

Torre ought to worry more about winning.

Andrew

[metsbats]

I agree with you that a pitcher throwing at a hitter is most un-sportsman like. However baseball has actually in my opinion become desensitized to this behavior because it's come so common an occurence and an accepted part of the game. Roger Clemens and Pedro Martinez come to mind as pitchers who are guilty of head hunting.

So the "Yell" took everyone by surprise.

And you are absolutely correct Andrew about the double standard because I didn't recall Torre denouncing Clemens during the 2000 season and WS after he almost killed Mike Piazza during that regular season game at Yankee Stadium or during the 2000 WS when Clemens threw that bat barrel towards Piazza.

David

[David]

I was watching the Yankees Red Sox Games and, talking about Arod's "Hey," Joe Morgan said similar things would be said to him when he was trying to catch a fly. For example, base runners would go in front of him and say "How you doing, Joe?" when he was fielding. Joe said he didn't think twice about these and other distraction techniques at the time, as they were part of the game, and thinks there are so many 'unwritten rules' today that no one can possible know them all. Infielder Johny Pesky said similar distraction stuff happened to him all the time in the 1940s-50s.

Morgan pointed out one unwritten rule which he thought typified today's unwritten and often arbitrary rules. He said, if you're ahead 10-0, the leading team is not supposed to try and steal a base because it will show up the opponents. However, the leading players still try and hit home runs.

[David]

I should add that, as a former infielder at the butt of many attempted distractions, Morgan said he didn't see anything wrong with what ARod did. And I suspect that Pesky wouldn't either.

[Nathan]

I should add that, as a former infielder at the butt of many attempted distractions, Morgan said he didn't see anything wrong with what ARod did. And I suspect that Pesky wouldn't either.

Although I'd love to use it because it proves my point, I reject what Joe Morgan has to say on the grounds that he's both a buffoon and a blowhard. I have a difficult time seeing how someone who played the game so well and so smart can be such a moron in the booth. He's as bad as what Tim McCarver has degenerated into.

[cjclong]

In regard to ARod and "clutch hitting." Last night ARod's 9th inning homerun beat Boston off a quality closer.( And from the replay he hit a tough two strike pitch) On the day of the controversy about ARod yelling at the 3rd baseman he had hit a single to put the Yankees ahead late in the game. In an earlier post I said that ARod wasn't among the top clutch hitters I've seen. But when a batter, say David Ortiz, has a reputation as a clutch hitter in late innings we remember when he succeeds and tend to forget when he fails. With Arod we remember when he fails and seem to forget when he succeeds. As I said, there are a number of players I'd rather have up in crucial late inning situation, but in fairness to him he's not the complete bum he is sometimes made out to be.

[suave1477]

cjclong I can appreciate what your saying and you right to an extent of sometimes we do forget when he does come through, but there is only one problem. That those moments are so few and far between that his once or twice out of whole season doesn't exactly give me the warm and fuzzies. lol lol

It becomes almost like when he does come through in a clutch situation - your response is more like "ok thats nice" becuz even if he helps you win 1 game how many did he cost you, to win that 1 game.

I don't mean to seem like an AROD Basher as I really do feel he is a superior player but dam he aggravates the crap out of me.
Like I said before i was excited when AROD was like a Monster in April, but then again that's AROD being AROD he is hot in April and then its so long see ya for the rest of the year.

[cjclong]

Suave, I also appreciate what you are saying. When ARod was with Texas I saw him play a number of games both in person and on televison and I've seen him on a number of Yankee telecasts and a few in person. While he was with Texas I became aware after a while he seemed to be making an awful lot of outs in the late innings. I know I would rather have Jeter up with a game on the line, but I have no statistical reason I can site, just a feeling. Does anyone keep stats, baseball seems to have a stat for everything, that can be used to measure clutch hitting? I know there is a stat on game winning hits, but you never see it. And I suppose even that could be misleading. For a player of ARod's talent it seems there ought to be better production in the late innings, but this year he has gotten a fair number of big hits as he's done this last week even while slumping in average and I just wonder how what he's done over the last few years in late innings compares to other players. I guess one reason I'm questioning is that when Jeter doesn't get a big hit I tend to forget it because of his past big hit history and when ARod makes an out I remember it for the same reason.