Clemens Signs with yankees

[geoff]

For all that don't know Roger Clemens just signed with the Yankees.I thought that he would pick them.He said this in New york at Yankee Stadium to a sell out crowd.For the Yankees fans on here you got the one of the greatest.Geoff

[whatupyos]

I think that its sad that baseball allows this guy, or any guy, to sit and chill for half the year, then come in to play in the middle of the year. Thats a bunch of malarky. The rest of the MLB players are busting their tails and this guy is allowed to hang out and just all of a sudden decide to play. That needs to stop...either play the whole year or just retire already.

[staindsox]

So does Clemens only get tested for drugs when he signs with a team, when he actually joins the roster, or is he tested in the spring like everyone else? For any of those who read the Bonds books, it sounds like the MLB does more testing in the spring and by the all-star break, it can often be done for the season. Yes, certain players get tipped when they're going to be tested. I am skeptical that the only reason Clemens does this is that he's too lazy to go to spring training because noone has ever accused him of being lazy (for example, Joe Carter said he would go and run 10 miles after pitching a game).

[jon_8_us]

Yankees fans rejoice.He's your #1 starter!Sox still have a far superior pitching staff top to bottom.See ya'll in October.
jon

[gameused]

I think that its sad that baseball allows this guy, or any guy, to sit and chill for half the year, then come in to play in the middle of the year. Thats a bunch of malarky. The rest of the MLB players are busting their tails and this guy is allowed to hang out and just all of a sudden decide to play. That needs to stop...either play the whole year or just retire already.

I agree with "whatupyos" I think Clemens should have played from the beginning.

Roger Clemens is one of the games greatest pitchers but he demands too much, he's going to be making 4.5 mil a month and the Yankees even agreed that he doesn't have to go on road trips with the rest of the team if he's not pitching, to me that's sad, why give one guy special treatment, when he puts on a Yankee uniform he should be treated like everyone else in the clubhouse, just shows how desperate the Yankees are in the pitching department.

I'm glad the Yankees picked him up, as I heard the Red Sox were in the hunt, as a Red Sox fan we don't need him and his Cinderella treatment he's asking for.

Bobby

[David]

I was wondering along the lines of the above post. Clemens is retired, out of baseball, until he signs a contract. This means he doesn't get drug tested year round like all the rest of the players.

[3arod13]

I think that its sad that baseball allows this guy, or any guy, to sit and chill for half the year, then come in to play in the middle of the year. Thats a bunch of malarky. The rest of the MLB players are busting their tails and this guy is allowed to hang out and just all of a sudden decide to play. That needs to stop...either play the whole year or just retire already.

I don't get it either. What really kills me is at the press conference, Brian Cashman said the Yankees aren't going to rush Clemens. When he's ready, he's ready. What??? For the money they're going to pay him this year (well, actually part of the year), and Clemens knowing he was going to pay, he should be in ready condition to play now!

How aren't player gripping about this also? Does Clemens really think he's a God, that he can dictate that he will only play home games and get paid the way he is? Well, I guess after yesterday, I just answered my question.

Ridiculous!

[3arod13]

I don't get it either. What really kills me is at the press conference, Brian Cashman said the Yankees aren't going to rush Clemens. When he's ready, he's ready. What??? For the money they're going to pay him this year (well, actually part of the year), and Clemens knowing he was going to pay, he should be in ready condition to play now!

How aren't player gripping about this also? Does Clemens really think he's a God, that he can dictate that he will only play home games and get paid the way he is? Well, I guess after yesterday, I just answered my question.

Ridiculous!

Sorry, "Clemens knowing he was going to play"

[larry bourget]

Clemens is a money grubber, the Yankees have more money than brains, he won't get them to the Post Season, ......does George Costanza still work there.

[kellsox]

Clemens has earned the right to choose where he plays. I'm sure that if he wanted to, he could sign a longer contract than the one year contracts he has been signing. It's his choice and it's also the choice of the teams that make offers to him(in my opinion overpriced offers). He does not just pitch in home games(as an earlier post stated). As a season ticket holder to the Red Sox, I would have liked him on my team, but it would have been a luxury based on the pitching the Sox have right now. It is different with him going to the Yankees because they are relying on him to anchor their staff and I don't think he's better than a #3 starter in the AL East.

[JETEFAN]

The Red Sox rotation is set and is as good as it's going to get, the Yankees proved Boston pitching is not a problem for them. They scored a ton of runs on Boston and in fact I believe led by 2 runs or more in every game ! The problem is Yankees pitching, starters and relievers not performing. In my opinion any type of quality pitching added to the mix for the Yanks closes the gap with Boston. I think the "Rocket" might be a slight improvement over past Yankees pitching.:D :D :D :D

[mr.miracle]

With Clemens resigning yesterday, George Steinbrenner issued a royal statement from the throne room. He said that the sole mission of the entire organization was to bring a world championship back to the Yankees. As a lifelong Orioles fan it would be nice to see Orioles ownership take that stance. While I agree that the Yankees continually overpay and have made a number of bad decisions especially with pitching, can we say Kevin Brown, Carl Pavano anyone? At least George does whatever he can financially to put a winning team on the field. While some might call this practice hiring mercenaries and buying a title my question is, if this was your team what would you want them to do? If my favorite team had the financial wherewithall that the NY Yankees have and did not invest it into the payroll to put a winning team on the field, as a fan I would be furious. The Yankees simply do what the rules as presently constituted in MLB allow them to do.

I take a look at the bumbling buffonery that is Orioles management every single year and wonder what has become of a once proud franchise that in the 60's and 70's was the class of baseball. Now it is reduced to being one of the laughingstocks of baseball due to Peter Angelos incompetence. Attendance has dropped nearly 50% in the past 5 years why? Because the team does not win and does not ever compete for a title. Once management realizes this ,which will probably never happen with Angelos and his cronies running the team; maybe they will be able to compete again.

Not that they care, but last year I contacted the Orioles front office and informed them that I would not attend another game until they made an effort to put a winning team on the field. It is evident that they don't care and will not continue to care unlike their counterparts in New York.
The Orioles can make whatever annual statement that they want to at the end of each year regarding improving the team in an effort to win but the proof is on or in this case not on the field. Can anyone name the last big name starting pitcher that this team signed as a free agent? I cannot, in fact, I don't know if their is one??

While I will never be a Yankee fan, I do respect and understand the mentality of doing anything possible to win. I only wish my team would take that same stance.

As for Clemens, if any of us could work that same deal we would in a heartbeat. Maybe we don't like it and no, I don't necessarily think it is in the best interest of the team, but after all, the Astros the last two seasons and now the Yankees agreed to it so you cannot just blast Clemens. It is just like negotiating for a job. If you can reasonably make demands regarding salary, vacation pay, benefits, etc. more power to you. The rest of the employees may not like it or the outside world but too bad for them.

[suave1477]

Mr Miracle you said that perfectly.

Here is what I don't understand about other teams fans that they say the Yankees buy themselves championships uhhhhhhhh hellooooooo thats what your supposed to do. Just like Mr Miracle said if the money is there why not spend it. Many other teams Management/Owners had the financial backing in a lot of situations to pick up a premium player but thought it would be more important to buy themselves a new Bently.

I mean really think about it for a second do you expect the Yankees to have the money for big name players and turn around and say "No we will not pay high money for this player, even though we can afford him, because it wouldn't be fair to other teams"

The Mets and the Red Sox are starting to use the same practice that the Yankees been using for years. With the money you make sink it back into the team which in turn will bring in more money.
That's business. thats how it works!!

There is an old saying "To make money you got to spend money"

[allstarsplus]

With Clemens resigning yesterday, George Steinbrenner issued a royal statement from the throne room. He said that the sole mission of the entire organization was to bring a world championship back to the Yankees.

As a lifelong Orioles fan it would be nice to see Orioles ownership take that stance. I take a look at the bumbling buffonery that is Orioles management every single year and wonder what has become of a once proud franchise that in the 60's and 70's was the class of baseball. Now it is reduced to being one of the laughingstocks of baseball due to Peter Angelos incompetence. Attendance has dropped nearly 50% in the past 5 years why? Because the team does not win and does not ever compete for a title. Once management realizes this ,which will probably never happen with Angelos and his cronies running the team; maybe they will be able to compete again.

Not that they care, but last year I contacted the Orioles front office and informed them that I would not attend another game until they made an effort to put a winning team on the field. It is evident that they don't care and will not continue to care unlike their counterparts in New York.
The Orioles can make whatever annual statement that they want to at the end of each year regarding improving the team in an effort to win but the proof is on or in this case not on the field. Can anyone name the last big name starting pitcher that this team signed as a free agent? I cannot, in fact, I don't know if their is one??

Brett - Great observations. George Steinbrenner accomplishes 3 things 1) Kept Clemens away from his arch-rival Red Sox 2) Improves his pitching staff 3) Excites the advertisers (YES Network) and fans to spend more money on the Yankees

Now to the pathetic Orioles. As I live 45 minutes from Baltimore, I cringe at the name Angelos who has to be the worst owner in baseball. There are close 2nd and 3rd place winners but this is the only category the Orioles come in 1st place these days. He gets the AL East windfall every season for attendance as he is assured a minimum of 9 home games every year vs. the Red Sox and another 9 games with the Yankees. Why put a team on the field when you make money doing what he is doing---unless of course you want to instill pride back to Charm City!!!!

Andrew

[staindsox]

Let's not forget the Yankees can do this and 70% of other teams cannot and most of it comes from television revenue and related advertising. The Yankees get 10x what Minnesota gets for tv contracts. When you have 10x as many people living in an area, it's tough to keep up. I just want to say that the Twins win with most of their players coming up from their own minor leagues, so you don't have to buy a team to put a winner together.

[staindsox]

And yes I know the Twins are owned by a billionaire, but nobody spends $100 to generate $50 in sales. If he spent Yankee money on the Twins, there is no doubt he would lose money. Minnesota can't generate the kind of income NY does...there simply aren't enough people here to do it.

[mr.miracle]

Nobody would ever argue that the Yankees and several other large market teams like the Red Sox, Angels, Dodgers, and Mets are infinitely in a better position just because of their market share. However there is market share and then their is just good business practices and many teams don't use the resources available to them like the Twins and the A's have done to compete. A team like the Kansas City Royals for instance obviously does not have the same resources as do the larger market teams. However, the Glass family that owns the team is comparable to Peter Angelos the Orioles owner in that they are cheap and seem to have no idea from a baseball perspective in terms of what they are doing. Look how many home grown prospects the Royals have allowed to escape over the last eight to ten years and then they attempt to tell fans that they are trying to win??? Sorry, not buying that argument. They might now have had the financial resources to sign them all, but they sure could have signed some of them or at least made an effort. Same thing in Pittsburgh where the Pirates have arguably the best or at least one of the top three ballparks in baseball. Same level of incompetance in management here year after year letting top prospects and free agents skip town.

Nobody is disputing that teams like the Orioles, Royals, Devil Rays, and a number of other markets cannot compete in the salary range with the Yankees. You can however outsmart them by making sound business decisions like Billy Beane has done in Oakland and what the Twins have done in Minnesota that will at least allow you to be competitive on a yearly basis. The problem is, ownership in many of these small market cities meddles in the team affairs and does not let the GM do the job the right way in an attempt to win games.

The bottom line in any city is that wins equal fans in the stands. If the team does not win or worse appears that it is not even making an effort to be competitive, the fans will grow disinterested and stop showing up. Who can blame them with the prices today to go to the ballpark it is an embarrassment what some of these teams are doing or I should say not doing.

In the case of the Orioles, they were avaraging attendance of 3.5-3.7 million per year 5-8 years ago. At an average of say $20.00 per ticket which is low today they would have grossed over $70 million in ticket sales alone. Today they have fallen to around 1.8 million and dropping in annual ticket sales. That results in less than $40 million in revenue. If this team put a winning team on the field or attempted to do so, based on the ticket revenue and the sweet deal Angelos managed to negotiate for himself with the Nationals coming in to DC for TV rights, this team should be able to afford $110-$120 million per year in payroll which would put them into competition with everyone short of the Yankees. Instead, Angelose puts the money in his pocket or in his bank account and then complains about all the fans who don't show up. Put a winning product on the field and maybe they will because the fans sure don't exist to make the owner rich which sadly, too many owners today think is the reason for them to own a sports franchise.

I agree with Andrew, even if the Yankees had three or four healthy productive starters right now, they would still have made every effort to sign Roger Clemens to accomplish one thing and that is to keep him away from the Boston Red Sox. That is the big difference between ownership here and elsewhere. You might not always like the Yankees but Steinbrenner will do whatever it takes to win and that is the bottom line that all teams should try to achieve.

[gameused]

David Wells says Clemens disrespects the team and teammates by not traveling, Greg Maddux agrees with Wells!

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2863411

[bigtime59]

Peter Angelos' unquestioned ineptitude aside, there is absolutely no way the Orioles can compete with the Yankee$ if you are talking about spending power. The Yankee$ just bumped their payroll back over $200MM--again--without even having tho think hard about it. All lies they tell about losing money to the contrary, they continue to drink from the endle$$ river of ca$h that runs through the Bronx, and to buy the AL East title every year.
Until MLB evens out the revenue situation, we're going to have to deal with this problem every year. (And yes, I do understand that things are not as bad, revenue-wise, as they were two CBAs ago, but they're still bad.)
All those who feel that the Yankee$ 26 WS titles were not purchased...well there's not much I can do for you. The income disparity between the Yankee$ and the rest of baseball dates back to the 1920s, at the latest.

[mr.miracle]

Peter Angelos' unquestioned ineptitude aside, there is absolutely no way the Orioles can compete with the Yankee$ if you are talking about spending power. The Yankee$ just bumped their payroll back over $200MM--again--without even having tho think hard about it. All lies they tell about losing money to the contrary, they continue to drink from the endle$$ river of ca$h that runs through the Bronx, and to buy the AL East title every year.
Until MLB evens out the revenue situation, we're going to have to deal with this problem every year. (And yes, I do understand that things are not as bad, revenue-wise, as they were two CBAs ago, but they're still bad.)
All those who feel that the Yankee$ 26 WS titles were not purchased...well there's not much I can do for you. The income disparity between the Yankee$ and the rest of baseball dates back to the 1920s, at the latest.


Bigtime, I am not suggesting that the Orioles can come anywhere close to what the Yankees spend dollar wise but they certainly can do better than what they are currently doing and have been doing for the past 15 plus years of the Angelos regime. The Yankees might have "bought" some titles in the past but they sure did not look so high and mighty during the 80's when they were at times the laughingstock of baseball and the stadium was 3/4th empty on a nightly basis.

If teams like the Atlanta Braves, Minnesota Twins, Oakland A's can regularly compete for the title with their revenue sources then there is no excuse why Baltimore cannot at least make a run for the wildcard. They almost cannot avoid the AL East basement and regularly compete with the Devil Rays to avoid that level of embarrassment.

Peter Angelos has refused ever since he bought the Orioles to consider a front line starting pitcher always making the comment that they cost to much and he is unwilling to pay someone to perform every fifth day. Well guess what, pitching wins championships and you need to look no further than that gapping hole to understand why Baltimore never ever is even competitive. It's great that the Orioles spent 49 million on relief pitchers during the offseason. Too bad the starters cannot even regularly get them into the 5th inning to utilize their skills.

It is an embarrassment when teams like the Kansas City Royals don't even spend the money they receive from the revenue sharing agreement to attract free agents and simply stick it in their back pocket. The Glass family is notorious for doing this.

Baseball does have issues to work out but their is no excuse for not trying to win and from where I stand a number of teams fit into that category. Who is ultimately hurt are the loyal fans that support that team year in and year out and spend their hard earned dollars so the owners can buy a new multi-million dollar home in the Hamptons.

[JETEFAN]

The Yankees have been building a fan base and putting a quality product on the field since the 1920's. The reaps of today is the result of that practice. It's like any buisness, the more you put into it, the more you get out. All teams have had and have the option now to do so. It's working for the Redsox !!As for caps, limits, sharing, is it fair to say that because Coke or Pepsi spends a gazillion dollars on promoting their product, and building a fan base, they should have to share it with Yoo-Hoo!!

[staindsox]

That's an oversimplied statement. It's easier to sell the Yankees to a potential base of 10 million vs. a potential fan base of a million in Minnesota. You have 10 times as many people to throw your product at. If you don't have the capital to begin with and 1/10 the potential market, you could never afford to sink the same kind of money into it. That would be bad business. A city like LA has no excuse, but teams like Milwaukee, Minnesota, Kansas City, etc would never, ever have the money to build a dynasty. Yes, they may win one year, but never a dynasty. Only New York and a few cities similar in size have the people to make a dynasty possible.

Chris

[suave1477]

Jete I agree with that also.


Someone mentioned here that because of the size of the cities population that they could nevre generate the money the Yankees do and for Geography purposes I agree.

But you don't even generate the money that your own team commands.

The A'S are one of the only teams I actually see sincerely working hard to keep a good team gpoing.
I even noticed last year that the owner had the top levels covered with a tarp to make it look nice and give the affect that more seats are sold. That was genius!!! it makes it look more instereting to the fans to go to the game seeing that the seats are being filled or at least appearing that way.
The A'S also build up some good players and make trades for better ones or get more money in the deal for the trades.
I am not an A's fan so forgive me if I can't name more or better players, But look at the players the A'S have had.

Sal Bando
Joe Rudi
Reggie Jacskon
Mark McGwire
Jose Canseco
Jason Giambi
Scott brosius
CatFish Hunter
Rollie Fingers
Frank Thomas
Mike Piazza
Goose Gossage
Dennis Eckersly
Vida Blue
Rickey Henderson
Tony Armas

My point to this is over time the A's have attracted some pretty big names whether through the farm system or trades and they are no where near the financial range of the Yankees.

As someone else here said its about having good business sense.

[staindsox]

Funny, I guess the A's have done this forever. Connie Mack was a genius at this. He dumped Lefty Grove and Jimmie Foxx at their peak, but would pick up re-treads that everyone else thought was washed up. There are only a few teams that can afford to pay Yankee money, top dollar at a players peak, but there certainly ways around this and the A's prove it.

My specific thought is that even the A's could never have a dynasty. They may win one or two years, but when they can't pay the big $ when their players reach the peak earning years, they rebuild...they may win it a few years later, but continuous series contender every year is pretty tough.

[JETEFAN]

Yankees sell more product outside of New York than they could ever sell in their home town. If we poll Yankkees collectors on this forum that purchase Yankees items, collectibles, hats, jerseys etc., most of us do not live in New York. Yankees products are a large part of their income! Those of us who are yankees fans, at least in my case,are fans because of tradition to win and put the best product on the field. I put money in the Yankees pocket from Steiner, Yankees products, watching the YES network etc. not by going to the games! Any team can do it, earn your fans by giving them something they want to see. They will pay to go, watch on TV, and by your colors!

[staindsox]

You cheer for the Yankees because they win, but...

1) That winning tradition started when all Yankee fans lived in New York. After all, there wasn't much in the way of mass communication in 1920 like today. There was no internet, YES network, or premium cable packages...radio didn't even mean anything for another 10 years. People were far more loyal to their local teams. People cheered the team that represented their location, not their winning tradition.

2) Had the Brooklyn Dodgers been that team in 1920, everyone would be wearing Dodger hats today. I think if the St. Louis Browns had won 20+ rings, they would still exist and a quarter of this forum would be wearing those ugly ass brown hats, but they never had the money to win in the first place.

[suave1477]

Yeah even the Red Sox had money, but Harry Frazee felt a Broadway Show was more important then baseball so they sold Babe Ruth to the Yankees to Pay for a Show (WHAT A QUINKY DINK, A SHOW IN NEW YORK).


Sorry I had to rub that in lol lol:p

[staindsox]

:D

Yeah, I agree with the irony...for No No Nanette, but Sox fans are in big denial over that one too. The show actually did very well for Frazee, contrary to how it is remembered.