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PlatinumMarketing
04-24-2007, 04:40 PM
Hello all. I was just wanting to get a few opinions on what you guys think about the following situation:

We (Platinum Marketing) take great pride in the one of kind items that we get from our clients and lately we have been seeing the card companies claiming to get their hands on particular items which they dont seem to know what they are getting their hands on.

Obviously there are those companies out there trying to make a few quick dollars and selling items to the card companies (which these distributors to the card companies are supposed to be certified) and they are probably the same people who are "doctoring" up the retail jerseys and selling them off as Game Issued or Used.

For instance. We deal exclusively with Josh Beckett and a few years back he was in the Futures All Star Game where he only used one jersey. The card companies came out with a "Game Used Futures" Jersey Card of his. That is great and all, but THE jersey which he wore in the game is matted and framed in his living room.

Recently the following was brought to my attention:
Jonathan Papelbon gave us both his All Star BP worn Jersey and his All Star Worn Jersey from the '06 All Star game. A lot of you have seen the pictures of him signing the jerseys and also holding up the jerseys for us and our authentication process.
Well then you come across the following on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/2006-TOPPS-JONATHAN-PAPELBON-ALL-STAR-GAME-USED-JERSEY_W0QQitemZ130104420892QQihZ003QQcategoryZ208 76QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I brought it to Papelbon's attention and he stated that the jersey from the field was in fact THE jersey he gave us.

The funny thing is that when you flip over the cards that supposedly have the appropriately named game used items included, there is a guarantee from the company's president.

Any thoughts????

Jason Oberle
jason@platinummarketinginternational.com

kylehess10
04-24-2007, 04:56 PM
Is says "All Star Workout-Used Jersey". Isn't there a "workout day" like the day before the All Star Game? Also, about the Futures jersey, they probably cut up a BP jersey. I don't think I've seen a jersey card with an actual piece of an All Star Game jersey, World Series jersey, Futures game jersey,etc. I've seen a lot of BP ones though

otismalibu
04-24-2007, 05:08 PM
I contacted Upper Deck to ask if they kept photos of the jerseys they cut up. They told me there was no record of the jerseys they made into cards. Handy.

I've recently seen Julius Erving UDA game used cards that feature a blue mesh swatch. Those would have to be from his 76ers road jersey from either his first or second year in the NBA. One of those jerseys would be considerably rarer than the road red 76ers jersey he wore for the rest of his career. I've never seen one up for auction. And seeing that an ABA jersey of his went for not too far off $150,000, you'd think the owner of one of these rare blue 76ers jerseys might want to test the market. But I guess UDA quietly acquired one of these jerseys and quickly cut it up.

sandman02910
04-24-2007, 05:47 PM
Concerning the Papelbon Jersey, Jason's questions are the same I have been asking myself for almost 9 months. As a huge Papelbon collector myself I have also spoken to Jonathan about this particular "Cool Base" All Star BP Jersey. Going back a bit more than 6 months ago Hunt Auctions auctioned off an entire set of MLB Authenticated Autographed All Star BP Jerseys from the 2006 game. Most of these Jerseys did not sell because of the high opening bids for something that in the description on the Hunt website was not listed as "Game Used". I have been told by a friend who did win one of these jerseys that when you put the MLB Hologram number into the box on the authentication website it IS listed as game used. If this is indeed the case than Jonathan wore 3 Jerseys during warmups????? Jonathan himself has told me that the jersey that Platinum has is indeed the one he wore during the warm-ups. He also said he was issued at least 2 BP jerseys but did not wear the other. Perhaps that is the one on the card.....or in the Hunt Auction. I have purchased several game used items of Jonathan's from Platinum as well as numerous items that I have purchased directly from Jonathan himself. I have even shown Jonathan items I purchased from Platinum and before he even gets the item in his hand he starts talking about what it is, when he used it, how long he used it, etc, etc. This goes as far back even to a glove he used almost 4 years ago. Jonathan is sharp and remembers every item he has used from his Single A jersey up to his 2006 Jerseys. I have taught my kids to look up to honest sincere players like Jonathan. It is however a shame that card companies are either misled in what they are buying and putting on cards or are misleading the kids who are buying their products. Either way it is up the the card company to do their homework before buying supposed game used jerseys the same way we as collectors should do our homework before purchasing items for our collections.

Thanks
Scott Sawyer
jonathanpapelbon.com (http://www.jonathanpapelbon.com)

closersuck
04-24-2007, 06:55 PM
i can't believe people actually spend hard earned money on cards with a 1/2 inch as fabric on. i always thought those game used cards were stupid. i would like to know who thought cutting up a ty cobb worn jersey was a good idea.

sandman02910
04-24-2007, 07:36 PM
I really wish I knew more about how it works but apperently a company called CMG Worldwide owns the property rights to the following athletes .and apparently a couple years ago they partnered with UD to attempt to rid the world of every game used treasure that exists on this planet. Athletes such as Gary Carter have been interviewed saying how great they think it is that they can cut up a Ruth Jersey into a thousand pieces for all to enjoy.......I ask you all this. How many times have you marveled over a 1 inch by 1 inch piece of fabric. It is an absolute crime and I wish their were similar Laws in place to protect these items as their are to protect historical sites, homes and buildings.
Babe Ruth
Lou Gehrig
Jackie Robinson
Honus Wagner
Ty Cobb
Tony Lazzeri
Don Drysdale
Billy Martin
Walter Johnson
Cy Young
Walter Maranville
Roy Campanella
Mel Ott
Burleigh Grimes
Grover Alexander
Gil Hodges
Satchel Paige
Edd Roush
Casey Stengel
Rogers Hornsby
Eddie Collins
Rube Marquard
Dizzy Dean
Lefty Grove
Frank Chance
Tris Speaker
George Sisler
Christy Mathewson
Mickey Cochrane
“Shoeless” Joe Jackson
Carl Hubbell
Jimmie Foxx
Thurman Munson
Pie Traynor
Johnny MizeHerb Pennock
John Evers
“Smoky” Joe Wood
“Wee” Willie Keeler
Zack Wheat
Leo Durocher
Ralph Kiner*
Don Larsen
Carl Erskine*
Jim Palmer*
Bob Feller*
Eddie Mathews
Enos Slaughter
Fergie Jenkins*
Monte Irvin*
Harmon Killebrew*
Early Wynn
Lou Brock*
Mordecai “Three - Finger” Brown
Pee Wee Reese
Tommy John*
Alexander Cartwright

kylehess10
04-24-2007, 08:22 PM
i can't believe people actually spend hard earned money on cards with a 1/2 inch as fabric on. i always thought those game used cards were stupid. i would like to know who thought cutting up a ty cobb worn jersey was a good idea.


Well I used to collect it before switching to game used memorabila that's intact but when I was 10, first starting to collect cards, and knowing that I could buy a pack of cards and I could get a piece of a jersey worn by my favorite player was a really cool idea to me. But over time card companies just took it way too far by spending thousands and thousands on historical pieces of memorabilia and shredding them up. They should just make them with current memorabilia and just do it for the kids. I remember when star player game used cards from players like A-Rod, Griffey, Sosa,etc. used to go for like $30-$50 per card but now you can get them for a buck on eBay. Like I said, card companies took it way to far and the only reason why people still spend their money on these boxes is to hopefully get a good card and throw it on eBay right away. You can easily tell now that card companies aim strictly for adults only. WHAT KID WOULD HAVE THE MONEY TO SPEND $300 ON A SINGLE PACK OF CARDS?!?

closersuck
04-24-2007, 09:15 PM
i agree with the preserving post. memorabilia collecting aside, baseball is a huge part of american history. maybe not so much now but 80 years ago it was. as americans i believe it is our duty to preserve history for future generations. destroying a babe ruth jersey is just wrong, i can't believe more people haven't spoken out about it. I'm surprised some card company hasn't cut up elvis' gold suit or the ruby red slippers from the wizard of oz.

kylehess10
04-24-2007, 09:33 PM
I'm surprised some card company hasn't cut up elvis' gold suit

Actually........

http://cgi.ebay.com/Topps-Pristine-Legends-Elvis-Presley-Worn-Dress-Shirt_W0QQitemZ120112634961QQihZ002QQcategoryZ9801 4QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


http://cgi.ebay.com/2002-TOPPS-AMERICAN-PIE-ELVIS-PRESLEY-WORN-ARMY-SHIRT_W0QQitemZ330113407769QQihZ014QQcategoryZ5612 0QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


http://cgi.ebay.com/2002-AMERICAN-PIE-ELVIS-PRESLEY-WORN-JACKET_W0QQitemZ250022327697QQihZ015QQcategoryZ219 QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

rose14
04-25-2007, 07:57 AM
Scott if I remember correctly the jerseys that Hunt had at their auction last November at the Louisville Slugger Museum were the alternate ALL-STAR GAME jersey's that were signed by the players. I was under the impression that these were not the actual game used jersey's but their second set as only two sets were produced. These were being sold for charity.

Jags Fan Dan
04-25-2007, 09:34 AM
The funny thing is that when you flip over the cards that supposedly have the appropriately named game used items included, there is a guarantee from the company's president.

Any thoughts????

Jason Oberle
jason@platinummarketinginternational.com

I have wondered about the validity of these "game used" cards for quite some time. With as many companies putting out as many cards as they are, it really makes you wonder where they are getting all of this stuff. I mean, how hard are card companies going to look at something that they are about to cut up? As questionable as some of the jersey cards are, I would hate to even think about the bat cards out there!

ticalnza
04-25-2007, 12:28 PM
What makes matters even worse regarding these game-used swatch cards is that some sellers are removing original single color swatches from cards and replacing the patch with a multi-colored swatch (which carry a higher premium). These multi-colored swatches could have been from a replica jersey the seller purchased from a store. :mad:

otismalibu
04-25-2007, 12:36 PM
What makes matters even worse regarding these game-used swatch cards is that some sellers are removing original single color swatches from cards and replacing the patch with a multi-colored swatch (which carry a higher premium). These multi-colored swatches could have been from a replica jersey the seller purchased from a store.

Yeah, I've seen that done on eBay quite a bit. Good detectives often find the cards the buyer bought (often with a different ID), then you'll see them selling the same card with a different swatch. It's painfully obvious when the seller swaps swatches on a numbered card :rolleyes:

Jags Fan Dan
04-25-2007, 02:36 PM
Yeah, I've seen that done on eBay quite a bit. Good detectives often find the cards the buyer bought (often with a different ID), then you'll see them selling the same card with a different swatch. It's painfully obvious when the seller swaps swatches on a numbered card :rolleyes:
How do they do that without seriously damaging the card??:confused:

kylehess10
04-26-2007, 05:29 PM
How do they do that without seriously damaging the card??:confused:


I did it one time for the fun of it......if you have a game used card that has a thickness where the jersey piece is, you can easily slip it right inside the card

Jags Fan Dan
04-27-2007, 07:17 AM
I did it one time for the fun of it......if you have a game used card that has a thickness where the jersey piece is, you can easily slip it right inside the card
It might be fun to just put in some swatches that don't make any sense. Like put a purple swatch of jersey into a Brett Favre card. The sad thing is, if you put on eBay, it would probably sell!

Jags Fan Dan
04-28-2007, 06:33 PM
Speaking of unexplained swatches, what the heck jersey is this from???

http://cgi.ebay.com/JIMMY-SMITH-2002-LEAF-CERTIFIED-4-COLOR-PATCH-08-50_W0QQitemZ160111708629QQihZ006QQcategoryZ56133QQ rdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Jags Fan Dan
05-01-2007, 12:42 PM
Speaking of unexplained swatches, what the heck jersey is this from???

http://cgi.ebay.com/JIMMY-SMITH-2002-LEAF-CERTIFIED-4-COLOR-PATCH-08-50_W0QQitemZ160111708629QQihZ006QQcategoryZ56133QQ rdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Well, this has really been bugging me, but it appears the swatch on this Jimmy Smith jersey is from a Patriots jersey??? Compare to this Maroney:
http://cgi.ebay.com/LAURENCE-MARONEY-4-clr-patch-absolute-ed-to-50-HOT_W0QQitemZ110119476213QQihZ001QQcategoryZ655QQr dZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Any body have any idea what to make of this??:confused:

otismalibu
05-01-2007, 12:48 PM
UD could cut up a Wheaties box and make 100 Breakfast of Champions cards and they would sell. Number them and they'll sell for more. And of course, the numbered pieces with more than one color would fetch the most.

frikativ54
03-29-2008, 05:07 AM
Well, I was on eBay, and I find this interesting card:

http://cgi.ebay.com/2008-UD-Premier-Bat-Barrel-MARK-TEIXIRA-1-5_W0QQitemZ310036096866QQihZ021QQcategoryZ149905QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Take a look at that sticker. I wonder how many of these supposed "game-used" cards are of dubious authenticity?

3arod13
03-29-2008, 07:20 AM
I don't beleive many of these so called "game used" pieces in cards are legit and authentic (bats, jerseys, etc.)

Upperdeck buys many "so called" game used items from people and not directly from the players or their teams. There's no way to prove authenticity for all pieces they buy.

I recall years back, the Manny Ramirez Game Used Bat card. There was a piece of cork in it. It was big news, however, Manny Ramirez denied it was his bat (of course). However, Upperdeck stood behind its authenticity.

My problem with game used stuff today is, most aren't used by players because they like it or have used it for some time, it's made for them to swing a bat a few times, put a jersey on then take it off, etc., for the sole purpose of selling it as "Game Used."

I don't trust much of today's stuff.

Jags Fan Dan
03-29-2008, 01:22 PM
I will harken back to a Jimmy Smith patch card that had a piece of a patch from a Patriots jersey in it. Now that is authentic!!! NOT!

David
03-29-2008, 01:53 PM
I have heard there are forgeries of these cards, in that patches and cloth are switched. For example, to gu card collectors, a button or certain color pattern can be extra desirable, so forgers will take out the original cloth piece and insert a fake piece.

Texans
03-29-2008, 02:11 PM
Upper Deck first used to put on the back of the card that you have a received a game used jersey. Now the wording on the back of the card states you received a piece of memorabilia that has been certified as having been used in a game. I think they change the wording to cover themselves. I thought card companies obtain there jersey through the league or players but they seem to buy them from auction house. There was an Albert Pujols game used card and it has an ASI logo on it.


Jojo

frikativ54
03-29-2008, 05:12 PM
Upper Deck first used to put on the back of the card that you have a received a game used jersey. Now the wording on the back of the card states you received a piece of memorabilia that has been certified as having been used in a game. I think they change the wording to cover themselves. I thought card companies obtain there jersey through the league or players but they seem to buy them from auction house. There was an Albert Pujols game used card and it has an ASI logo on it.


Jojo

That's a really good point. I had never realized that the wording had changed until you mentioned it. That is a really good way to cover up for any possible authenticity issues - to say it has been certified to you that it is authentic. Not that it is authentic in and of itself, but that someone has told you it's real.

I can't understand the game-used craze anyway. You'll see a piece of a cut-up patch and wish that it were whole. Why do they cut it up? So people can own a part of a piece of history. Just ridiculous IMHO. I sold off most of my game-used, and I found that you could sell it off and buy a whole game-used jersey for the money you make on your "investment".

indyred
03-29-2008, 08:06 PM
What the heck kind of bat is that supposed to be? His name on the barrel looks like it's a sticker.

Eric
03-29-2008, 08:23 PM
Here's the pic
11002

kylehess10
03-29-2008, 08:31 PM
What the heck kind of bat is that supposed to be? His name on the barrel looks like it's a sticker.


I believe that's a Muzino model bat

suave1477
03-29-2008, 09:09 PM
I remember sepcifally 2 cards that stood out to me that were obvious fakes and since then has made me question buying those game used cards and should make members here buying any game used cards.

#1 Upper Deck Game Used Jersey card of Paplebons Jersey from an All Star Game - IMPOSSIBLE!!! - A member here owns that exact Jersey they claim theres to be.

#2 Another card company showing a Darryl Strawberry game used Jersey Patch card. IMPOSSIBLE!!! The colors of the patch never matched any Patch Strawberry ever wore.


NOW I WANT EVERY MEMBER HERE TO BARE THESE 2 EXAMPLES IN MIND WHEN PURCHASING YOUR NEXT GAME USED CARD!!!

HENMICK44
03-30-2008, 02:42 AM
Suave Would You Be Interested In A Trade For That Pat Kelly Yankee jersey???henmick44@optonline.net

Jags Fan Dan
03-30-2008, 07:39 AM
Also, from what I have learned, nearly all the players keep their game used Pro Bowl jersey, yet there are all of those cards out there with game-used Pro Bowl jersey swatches from nearly every player...something doesn't add up.

3arod13
05-13-2008, 02:35 PM
What a true waste! I wish they would stop doing this.

Vintagedeputy
05-13-2008, 02:36 PM
what's really sad is that someone will pay 3K for that.....

camarokids
05-13-2008, 02:57 PM
It looks to be cut signatures from game used baseball bats not paper ????

I wonder why the card does not specify this ?

Just says cut signatures ......

I agree , what a waste of a pair of great collectibles ........

skipcarayislegend
05-13-2008, 03:01 PM
Congratulations! You have just received a 1 of 1 piece of garbage!

godwulf
05-13-2008, 03:02 PM
Probably came off a couple of Pro Stock bats.

rose14
05-16-2008, 03:09 PM
Brian, I have a question for you about a tale that I have heard for many years now and I was wondering if you could verify if it's true or not. I have always heard that somone in the Hillerich family had a large amount of bats that they had gathered over the years and decided one day many years ago to have a big bonfire. I heard that there were hundreds of bats that spaned many decades back in history.

BMH
05-16-2008, 03:36 PM
No, I don't think anyone in the family has done anything like that, maybe one of the ex-wives:) The closest thing to that is when my Uncle decided to sell off many of the bats laying around the factory and in the storage areas. Basically $50 a cart full. Many side written bats and gamers were in these piles.

So you all don't like seeing cut up bats? Guess I shouldn't show you all some of the things I do to bats when we get them back in...I have very nice pieces of Jeter, Ortiz and Pujols bats laying about the lab.

kylehess10
05-16-2008, 03:46 PM
So you all don't like seeing cut up bats? Guess I shouldn't show you all some of the things I do to bats when we get them back in...I have very nice pieces of Jeter, Ortiz and Pujols bats laying about the lab.



Can I have them? :D

ryan4fregosi
05-16-2008, 07:15 PM
Famous Ballplayer: Let me get this straight: you want me to sign this bat "...rek Jete..."?

Card Company Jerk: It saves us time.

3arod13
05-20-2008, 05:08 AM
Just another example. Why would anyone do this to a Derek Jeter Game Used Bat???

http://i17.ebayimg.com/04/i/000/e6/fd/27b9_1.JPG

3arod13
05-20-2008, 05:09 AM
Oh, the buy it now price is $2,199.99

http://cgi.ebay.com/08-Ud-Premier-Derek-Jeter-Game-Used-Bat-Barrel-2-5_W0QQitemZ330237152971QQihZ014QQcategoryZ149905QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

indyred
05-22-2008, 10:29 AM
You see the ending price on this Griffey bat barrel card?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190222230969

The guy could easily have a few full Jr. game used bats and change left over. Also, as Howard has posted before. Ken cranked out Mariners game used bats like no other back then.

3arod13
05-22-2008, 11:56 AM
You see the ending price on this Griffey bat barrel card?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190222230969

The guy could easily have a few full Jr. game used bats and change left over. Also, as Howard has posted before. Ken cranked out Mariners game used bats like no other back then.

WOW! Now that is just insane!!!

cjmedina1
05-22-2008, 12:19 PM
I always wondered why would card companies would do the bat insert cards? If people are this crazy over a bat chip,What would happen if they decide to give a redemption card for a bat and not a bat chip :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:? I guess time will tell

Carlie Medina III
carliemedinaiii@sbcglobal.net

Eric
07-18-2008, 11:59 AM
I have been wondering about this for some time. Perhaps forum members could shed some light.

Where do the card companies get the game used items that get chopped up and put in cards.
I was looking on ebay recently and saw this card
Bidding on a Rivers 2007 National Treasures Game Used Jersey Tag card, serial #'d 1/3

(Is this a Donruss card?)

13030

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the swatch, but it occurred to me that the three examples of Chargers jerseys that I have seen which came from the team have been heavily tailored size 50 shirts.

2 from the 2007 season

1 from the 2006 season

Had me wondering where the jersey in the card came from.

I know for a fact that sometimes card companies purchase from auction houses. Years ago there was a one of a kind piece that I bid on, and due to a techinical glitch the auto-bid didn't raise my bid so I lost it. I contacted the auction house and they mentioned that the piece had been won by a card company.

Do they buy pieces from ebay? Dealers? Teams? Does anyone have first hand knowledge on this topic?

The fact that the NFL game used section of the hobby has been so clogged with bad jerseys in the past few years makes you hope that they buy pieces right from the teams

Anyone with confirmed info out there?

Eric

suave1477
07-18-2008, 12:22 PM
Eric this is a great topic and has been discussed before on the forum. The reality is unless someone here knows the card company directly who knows where these so called pieces come from, but I believe it is safe to assume that they are not just coming directly from a card company. I believe a good amount is coming from Auction Houses, Ebay, collectors personal collections, Teams and other sources.

Look back on this forum discussing topics of cards with wrong game used pieces in them. Some thing is defintiely funny about them.

I believe there is a member who personally owned an All Star game or All Star futures Game used Jersey of Papelbon. Yet on ebay someone was selling and baseball card with a swatch in it of the same Jersey.

How is that possible??? I asked the person who owned it, he said he still had it. I even called the company to find out the deal. All I got was voicemails with no reply.

I have seen a Strawberry Jersey Game Used Card with a piece of a patch in it, Impossible because the colors on the patch were never ever worn by the Mets.

It is definitely scary and has made me stay away from collecting the game used cards.

Here is a perfect example: go on ebay right now and look for Yankees Game Used cards, how many recent players are out there with pieces of Yankees Jerseys, Are they getting them from Steiner???? and then cutting them up????

orioles03
07-18-2008, 12:23 PM
i remember when i was with the orioles in 2006 upperdeck sent jerseys for tejada ,bedard,roberts, mora.my job was to make sure they wore the jerseys for one inning and then get the jerseys from them and then package them up and ship them out.all they had to do is just wear them, the 2006 jerseys did not even have the hendricks iron on patch on the sleeve it was a big deal i'm not sure who they were paying but they wanted to get them to wear the jerseys to put on cards

bigtruck260
07-18-2008, 12:23 PM
Hi Eric -

From what I have read (I used to collect these things)...

Playoff/Donruss used to be the same company. Not sure if they are now. I know Donruss was having some financial trouble after losing the MLB contract.

Some companies have authorized dealers that they procure autographs (usually cut sigs) and game used/event used items from. They also buy them from eBay, auction houses and other dealers that they feel have genuine merchandise.

I stopped collecting novelty cards when I came across several eBay auctions that had bat barrels from store model bats embedded in cards and numbered 1/1 or some ridiculously low number.

This is probably a reason that GU collecting is becoming so popular. Kids are realizing that for the $300 you might spend on opening boxes - or buying these "rare" cards with an unidentifiable layer of fabric...you could easily own a nice gamer of that player...or at least have a nice down payment on something.

PudgePollyMillerFan
07-18-2008, 12:43 PM
I know that I wanted some Detroit Tigers game worn jerseys from last season and was told by Steve Graus (Tigers Authentics Mgr at the time) that I would have to wait until the next set of jerseys came out because he promised the first set to a card company who was picking them up directly from the team....players I wanted that were not availabe were Pudge, Verlander, Sheffield, Granderson and Ordonez.

Jags Fan Dan
07-18-2008, 12:45 PM
And the really scary thing is, if you can find issues with a SWATCH, imagine the issues you might find if you could view the entire jersey. And the sad fact is, with the swatch cards, there is almost no way of ever determining authenticity. That could be a piece of Babe Ruth's jersey or it could be a piece of grandpa's flannel boxer shorts. You are never going to know. So the cards are worth only what value or trust you put into a COA. Which to me, ain't much.

suave1477
07-18-2008, 12:49 PM
. That could be a piece of Babe Ruth's jersey or it could be a piece of grandpa's flannel boxer shorts. You are never going to know. So the cards are worth only what value or trust you put into a COA. Which to me, ain't much.

Heeeeeeey my grandpas flannel boxers are worth a lot ill sell you a pair for $1.99, he wore them for a whole year and shows plenty of use lol lol:D

Eric
07-18-2008, 12:50 PM
I guess this is also a good thread to post bad swatches... Go nuts.

David
07-18-2008, 01:33 PM
I know some of the high end jerseys in the Barry Halper/Sotheby's auction were won by card companies. I believe this includes the Ty Cobb Athletics jersey.

orioles03
07-18-2008, 01:35 PM
when i was staying over jay gibbons house a card company sent him two of every game used item they made of him the thing is all of his jerseys he ever wore were in a box in his basement and the only other one he ever gave away was to me he was asking how they made game used jersey cards when he has all of his jerseys i saw the box it was loaded with jerseys.he also said bat cards he does not know where they got the bats from .i do have a contract he signed with donruss explaning to him they will pay him $10,000 to sign about 2500 cards

EndzoneSports
07-18-2008, 02:01 PM
Here a 2002 Donruss Elite Throwback Threads game-worn memorabilia card #TT-14 of quarterback Craig Morton… A caption above the photo on the back reads, "This is a photo of the actual jersey from which this swatch was taken."

http://www.endzonesportscharities.org/Graphics/news/tt14.jpg
The card’s photo depicts the a jersey which was sold at an American Memorabilia auction in 2000 as identified by the unique auto/inscription on the back which denoted it as being “Super Bowl XII game-worn”. While it cannot be discerned by the card’s photo of the back of the jersey, when auctioned by AMI, the catalog clearly showed the blue/red on white Russell Athletic manufacturer’s tagging on the front of this jersey, which dated the jersey style to post-1983--A jersey not only manufactured six years after Super Bowl XII, but also at least one full year after Morton’s 1982 retirement.

http://www.endzonesportscharities.org/Graphics/news/77cmort.jpg

There was a bit of ironic justice in knowing that this one, which Donruss had shelled out in excess of $2,200 to obtain, had been chopped up into tiny little swatches.

Best regards,

OleMiss
07-18-2008, 02:06 PM
I check the Beckett site every once in while. There are always post on there linking to auctions on ebay where there are cards with fake patches on them. Not saying this one is, but apprently there are alot of folks that have figured out how to cut up a patch or piece of a jersey and put multi colored patches on the card. Of course the multi colored pieces sell for alot more then single color cards.

I've never understood why a card company doesn't start putting coupons for the actual jersey in card packs. I think this would be a big hit. Instead of getting a piece you get the entire jersey with a letter from the company when it was game used.

3arod13
07-18-2008, 02:13 PM
Anyone remember the Manny Ramirez Corked Bat Card.

http://www.beckett.com/estore/news/?s=1&eskin=beckett&a=1076

3arod13
07-18-2008, 02:16 PM
In my opinion, all game used memorabilia in sports cards should only come from the teams themselves, back up by an LOA.

bubbrubb25
07-18-2008, 02:48 PM
How do card companies get game used items??? They go to a sports store and buy a few jerseys. Well atleast sometimes it seems like thats what there doing.

Eric
07-18-2008, 02:51 PM
I check the Beckett site every once in while. There are always post on there linking to auctions on ebay where there are cards with fake patches on them. Not saying this one is, but apprently there are alot of folks that have figured out how to cut up a patch or piece of a jersey and put multi colored patches on the card. Of course the multi colored pieces sell for alot more then single color cards.

That's a different issue entirely. What you're mentioning is people taking cards and doctoring them to make rarer cards with fake patches.

We are discussing card companies who have purchased and cut up items that are not authentic.

Jags Fan Dan
07-18-2008, 03:06 PM
I have posted this same scenario a few times on this board in these types of threads, but what really hammered the questionable nature of these cards home to me was the "Pro Bowl jersey" cards. I emailed Mark Brunell and he responded that he still has all of his game used Pro Bowl jerseys. And I imagine this is the case for most players. So what are all of the red and blue jersey swatches in the "player worn" Pro Bowl jersey cards? Did they all use the "player worn" statement so that it could be any jersey the player put on, maybe for skills competition or just a photo shoot, because they never said it was game used? If so, it seems that people were ignorant to that fact because some of those Pro Bowl swatch jersey cards went pretty high back in the day.

Eric
07-18-2008, 03:43 PM
Has anyone on this site ever sold to the card companies?

godwulf
07-18-2008, 04:18 PM
A few years ago, out of curiosity, I emailed one of the major card companies - I've forgotten which one, but it was probably Topps or Upper Deck - and mentioned that I had a large collection of game-used bats, and was interested in selling them. (I really wasn't, at all, but I was curious as to whether they bought them from individuals, and how much they paid.) I never heard back from them.

I used to despise the sight of those cards, because it just seemed to me to be borderline sacrilegious to cut up, for example, a Babe Ruth jersey, or a Ted Williams bat, or even something belonging to one of Baseball's lesser lights. Then, in a discussion on some board, someone asked the question, "If you could ask Babe Ruth whether he'd rather that one of his jerseys was hanging in some rich guy's den, or cut up so that hundreds of his fans could own a piece, what do you think he would say?"

I have to confess that the question (the answer to which I think is pretty obvious) changed my thinking on the matter. I still think it's plenty silly that a card with what is purported to be a tiny sliver of somebody's bat can sell for more than an entire bat of the same player...but it doesn't bother me like it used to that the cards exist.

I buy memorabilia cards now, for players of whom I'm particularly fond, because I like the design of the card; if it's a cool design, and it's cheap, I buy it like I would any other card. This morning, for example, I bought a couple of very attractive cards - a Conor Jackson bat card, and a Brandon Webb jersey card - for one and two dollars, respectively...and I could really care less whether or not the "memorabilia" is legitimate, because I like the cards. As far as I'm concerned, the greater the public suspicion that the cards are b.s., the better...it keeps the prices down.

thomecollector
07-18-2008, 09:57 PM
I too have also been questioning the authenticity of these cards. I recently picked up a bunch of cards from Upper Deck. The cards show a Thome Sox throwback uniform on the front. The swatch is grey like the uniform pictured. But, which uniform did it come from ?? Obviously not that uniform. Because I own that one . Makes me wonder..............:confused:

allstarsplus
07-18-2008, 10:00 PM
Has anyone on this site ever sold to the card companies?

I was never contacted directly, but another dealer wanted a Ryan Zimmerman jersey I had for a card company but they wanted to pay less than 1/2 of what I was offering it for and I didn't sell it to them.

suave1477
07-18-2008, 10:09 PM
A long time ago I was contacted by a member of here (I don't remember who) for a card company and he wanted to buy several Jerseys from me. When he told me it was for a card company I told him politely I appreciate the interest in my items but immediately turned him down as I do not believe these items should be used for that.

I enjoy this hobby too much to see any of the items I sell to be chopped up and that even goes for common player game used items. I am even against people wearing the items but I would rather that than being chopped up because at least the person wearing it is appreciating the item.

Eric
07-18-2008, 10:52 PM
NFL Auctions sold a 2007 Shawne Merriman jersey which was a size 48.
13046
Donruss has a card with a size 50 tag
13047
American Memorabilia sold a 2006 Merriman in size 50 authenticated by the 100% Authentic Team
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=41047
All could be real. But confusing...

Eric
07-19-2008, 08:42 PM
Our resident Favre expert Guy Hankel says Brett Favre wore size 52.

What do you make of this 2006 (Donruss) Leaf card?

13075

gwh11
07-19-2008, 08:55 PM
Is it possible that a size 50 tag made it's way onto one of Favre's size 52 jerseys? Yes, it's possible. It's also possible that Barack Obama will pick me as his running mate.

It is very, very unlikely that a size 50 tag makes its way onto a legit Favre gamer. I've seen a few fraudulent Favre jerseys sporting a size 50 tag up for auction over the past few years. This appears to be one of them.

Ironically, Donruss does the hobby a favor in this instance by destroying a fake jersey.

Guy

gwh11
07-19-2008, 09:01 PM
For reference, Favre wearing a size 52 jersey:
Guy

Eric
07-20-2008, 06:25 PM
Here's a Donruss Steven Jackson card from 2008 Donruss Elite- Size tag shows 46
13115
Sure, it's possible. NFL Auctions sold one that's a size 48. It's in our friend Roger's collection
13116
http://www.nflauction.nfl.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=90902002&prmenbr=65664914&aunbr=91248712

A forum user was selling one authenticated by WeTrak/Prova Group which was also a size 48

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=12433&highlight=steven+jackson

Eric
07-21-2008, 09:52 AM
I spoke to a fellow forum member who is familiar with the way Donruss has purchased game used football items.

He says Donruss would send around lists to various dealers of star players' jerseys they were looking to buy

Bottom line is- whoever sold to Donruss for the lowest price would get the deal.

A couple of very familiar names to these parts offered star jerseys and rookie jerseys to Donruss for about half the price that the other dealers were offering, so guess what- their stuff went right to Donruss.

The dealers signed documents saying the item was authentic and if there was a problem, it was the fault of the dealer.

This is a very scary scenario. Personally, I would never buy from the people who's names I have removed. If they have been furnishing Donruss with high end pieces to be put on cards, this is potentially a very disturbing situation.

Eric
07-24-2008, 10:24 PM
Drew Brees has only played for the Saints for 2 seasons, 2006 and 2007

Drew Brees jersey from american memorabilia which he signed "game used 2006" and is a size 46

13195
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=35804

Here is a Donruss 2007 Leaf Limited Brees card size 50

13196
http://cgi.ebay.com/Drew-Brees-2007-07-Leaf-Limited-Jersey-TAG-5-9-SAINTS_W0QQitemZ140252423053QQcmdZViewItem?hash=it em140252423053&_trksid=p3286.m14.l1318#ebayphotohosting

allstarsplus
07-25-2008, 04:52 AM
I spoke to a fellow forum member who is familiar with the way Donruss has purchased game used football items.

He says Donruss would send around lists to various dealers of star players' jerseys they were looking to buy

Bottom line is- whoever sold to Donruss for the lowest price would get the deal.

A couple of very familiar names to these parts offered star jerseys and rookie jerseys to Donruss for about half the price that the other dealers were offering, so guess what- their stuff went right to Donruss.

The dealers signed documents saying the item was authentic and if there was a problem, it was the fault of the dealer.

This is a very scary scenario. Personally, I would never buy from the people who's names I have removed. If they have been furnishing Donruss with high end pieces to be put on cards, this is potentially a very disturbing situation.

Eric - You know the old saying, "You get what you pay for". You have shown a pattern here of jerseys that just don't add up.

You also have to wonder if Donruss or these other companies do any due dilligence when buying these "cut rate" jerseys.

It is also a good news/bad news scenario as the price for these jersey cards are only a couple of $'s and kids in my neighborhood love collecting them and they are now affordable which is the good news---the bad news is if they ever read this thread they may discover that their Brett Favre jersey card might never have been worn by Brett Favre!

kingjammy24
07-25-2008, 04:27 PM
..Bottom line is- whoever sold to Donruss for the lowest price would get the deal...This is a very scary scenario. Personally, I would never buy from the people who's names I have removed. If they have been furnishing Donruss with high end pieces to be put on cards, this is potentially a very disturbing situation.

it's unfortunate for the collectors of these cards. however, for the game-used community i think it's absolutely fantastic if many of those cards offer fake swatches. it means that real jerseys haven't been cut up. the card companies have cut up every imaginable piece from all sports. everything from journeymen to superstars to HOF'ers and icons of sports history like ruth and jordan. their purchases have cut into almost every collecting interest. at the end of the day if it turns out that they've mainly purchased bogus jerseys then that's terrific news for the entire game-used community. it means that many of their grails are still out there, in-tact and have the chance to be preserved for future generations.

rudy.

BaseballGM
07-25-2008, 06:18 PM
I often suspected this type of behavior going on for game used pieces of cloth or should I say "supposedly" game used jerseys. Even if a jersey was legit, I doubt each swatch was carefully placed on the right card. But once the cards are out there who can tell the difference if it's a plain color piece?

nick1980
07-27-2008, 03:45 AM
I know Dennis Dixon fairly well and I know some of the card companies purchased a few Jersey's directly from him and Jonathan Stewart. I also purchased some from both players. I don't recall what they paid for the jerseys

David
07-28-2008, 12:20 PM
I was looking through a 2001 Robert Edward Auctions catalog and they had a Joe DiMaggio game used glove from the Halper Auction and with singed COA from DiMaggio. Upper Deck won it at the Halper Auction then give it away whole as a redemption. The winner of the UD redemption was the consignor. So they didn't cut this item up.

Blitzmaster
07-29-2008, 06:10 PM
how about these? The Sapp could not have come from a real Sapp jersey. I am not sure about the Urlacher. Never seen a patch on a Bears jersey like this. Any info??? These are my cards from a set. The Urlacher was pulled from the pack by me.

http://i5.ebayimg.com/04/i/001/01/9b/19c7_1.JPG

Eric
08-19-2008, 10:36 PM
Here is an interesting card which was listed recently

08 PLAYOFF PRESTIGE TRENT EDWARDS
13780

Trent Edwards was drafted in the 3rd round by the buffalo bills in 2007. His only NFL season was 2007.

Here is a card with a 2003 year tag
http://cgi.ebay.com/08-PLAYOFF-PRESTIGE-TRENT-EDWARDS-LAUNDRY-TAG-100_W0QQitemZ380050891707QQihZ025QQcategoryZ159975 QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp16 38Q2em118Q2el1247#ebayphotohosting

Teams recycle- perhaps this is from a preseason jersey. But if they've got a fairly high profile prospect, would they give him a 4 year old recycled jersey for a game?

(In 2003 #5 was worn by QB Travis Brown)
13784

Eric
09-16-2008, 06:17 PM
2006 JACK YOUNGBLOOD TREASURES LAUNDRY TAG PATCH SER#25

Back of the card reads
"WAS CUT FROM A AUTHENTIC JERSEY PERSONALLY WORN IN AN OFFICIAL NFL GAME"

Note the 2002 year tag
14436
Jack Youngblood retired in 1984

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=120305981589#ebayphotohosting

Where do they get these jerseys?
Eric

jppopma
09-17-2008, 12:18 AM
I love all of these pictures of messed up jerseys. I do not collect these, but have some that I have picked up of local players.

Has anyone ever read the "disclaimer" on the back of the newer cards. In part it reads; "You have received a <player> Event-Used trading card. On the front of this card are pieces of memorabilia that have been cerified to us as having been used in a photo shoot."

Where is the collectibiliy in an event used jersey? Wait..they don't even claim it is a piece of a jersey you are getting, it's memorabilia. For all anyone knows it could be the curtain they stood in front of. Yet, people go nuts over these and think they are getting something really special.

Eric
09-17-2008, 09:54 AM
But the Youngblood doesn't even say it's an event worn jersey. They're claiming it's from a game, which in this case took place 18 years after he retired.

trsent
09-18-2008, 12:25 AM
I love all of these pictures of messed up jerseys. I do not collect these, but have some that I have picked up of local players.

Has anyone ever read the "disclaimer" on the back of the newer cards. In part it reads; "You have received a <player> Event-Used trading card. On the front of this card are pieces of memorabilia that have been cerified to us as having been used in a photo shoot."

Where is the collectibiliy in an event used jersey? Wait..they don't even claim it is a piece of a jersey you are getting, it's memorabilia. For all anyone knows it could be the curtain they stood in front of. Yet, people go nuts over these and think they are getting something really special.

They use the photo shoot memorabilia for rookies who have never played a game. This is very common and should be disclosed by any seller in advance. They want to make jersey cards of rookies, but the rookies only have these event-photo shoot worn memorabilia.

I think there is a contract with the players associations and the card companies for these jerseys.

skyking26
09-18-2008, 07:52 AM
I have not read all the posts, but I personally never would buy a card with a cut up bat or jersey on it as a matter of principle as I do not feel that cutting up equipment as a means of selling cards is the right thing to do. Just my opinion, and we all have them...

RK

sonic
11-04-2008, 06:54 PM
That card set features jerseys worn at the Rookie Premiere not in an official game. I hear that the card companies use whatever team issued jerseys they can get their hands on for the photo shoot and have the player wear each of them for a few minutes (or seconds, if you're cynical).


Here is an interesting card which was listed recently

08 PLAYOFF PRESTIGE TRENT EDWARDS
15874

Trent Edwards was drafted in the 3rd round by the buffalo bills in 2007. His only NFL season was 2007.

Here is a card with a 2003 year tag
http://cgi.ebay.com/08-PLAYOFF-PRESTIGE-TRENT-EDWARDS-LAUNDRY-TAG-100_W0QQitemZ380050891707QQihZ025QQcategoryZ159975 QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp16 38Q2em118Q2el1247#ebayphotohosting

Teams recycle- perhaps this is from a preseason jersey. But if they've got a fairly high profile prospect, would they give him a 4 year old recycled jersey for a game?

(In 2003 #5 was worn by QB Travis Brown)
15878

cincy13
11-07-2008, 12:44 PM
In my opinion, all game used memorabilia in sports cards should only come from the teams themselves, back up by an LOA.
The Reds use to do this, but the GM at the time stopped because he didn't want to be bothered. So much of the Reds memorabilia is either going to the Community fund to auction off or MLB auctions. The clubhouse guys don't sell to the Reds gift shop anymore either because the PAST operators would steal the items.
I also was approached by some card companies in past Nationals to sell some of my old vintage bats and uniforms for cards. I was horrified at the concept of the items being distroyed.

Eric
11-26-2008, 01:28 PM
Drew Brees has only played for the Saints for 2 seasons, 2006 and 2007

Drew Brees jersey from american memorabilia which he signed "game used 2006" and is a size 46

15234
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=35804

Here is a Donruss 2007 Leaf Limited Brees card size 50

15235
http://cgi.ebay.com/Drew-Brees-2007-07-Leaf-Limited-Jersey-TAG-5-9-SAINTS_W0QQitemZ140252423053QQcmdZViewItem?hash=it em140252423053&_trksid=p3286.m14.l1318#ebayphotohosting

Here's another Drew Brees size 50 which is on a Donruss card
http://cgi.ebay.com/2008-ABSOLUTE-GF-27-DREW-BREES-PRIME-JERSEY-08-14_W0QQitemZ260319236472QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_SM_S ports_Cards?hash=item260319236472&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A3%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318#eb ayphotohosting

16131

16132

Eric
11-26-2008, 01:35 PM
And this one...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Drew-Brees-2007-National-Treasures-Jersey-Tag-10_W0QQitemZ220317791285QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_SM_S ports_Cards?hash=item220317791285&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318

16133

16134

Texans
11-29-2008, 12:10 AM
I found this on ebay. Either some one tried to fake a patch or Upper Deck is just buying authentic jersey.


http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll120/Rockets3422111/Basketball/mcgrady/768f_2.jpg

indyred
01-18-2009, 03:05 PM
Anyone see the Honus Wagner Sterling 1/1 bat barrel card. I believe with that signature on it, it's from a replica mini bat. A few of those on ebay and sig looks same as those. Anyone see a Wagner bat with this style of signature on it?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290290071438

frikativ54
01-18-2009, 05:00 PM
I found this on ebay. Either some one tried to fake a patch or Upper Deck is just buying authentic jersey.


That linked image is gone, but some people like to fake patches. A regular old white swatch isn't worth much these days, but a con-man can insert a multi-colored patch card and get $100+ from the sale. So - you have to be really careful that you are getting what is advertised.

spartakid
01-18-2009, 05:08 PM
Wow, I didn't reealize that people faked patches on cards. It's a conspiracy!

woody1351
01-18-2009, 06:11 PM
i really like this thread i usually dont read everything written but i did on this one. very informative

kingjammy24
01-18-2009, 07:20 PM
what surprises me is the massive level of trust required in these game-used cards. typically when a collector evaluates a game-used item, they've got the entire item to look at in order to see how the whole thing measures up. at times, collecting some of these game-used items can be a complex thing. ultimately, each collector decides if they're comfortable with a piece based on what they see in the piece and what they know.

with game-used cards, all of that is thrown completely out the window. there's nothing to ascertain. you're given a 2"x2" swatch of fabric or square of wood and told "this is a piece of mantle's bat" or "this is a piece of gehrig's jersey". the evidence? none. you've just got to completely and wholly place every ounce of your trust in upper deck or donruss or whoever. wow. people talk about the leaps of faith required in this hobby but the leaps required in collecting game-used cards seem to go beyond religious proportions. there's probably more evidence pointing to the existence of God than there is to a 2"x2" piece of wood being from lou gehrig's bat.

http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/sports/2006/02/19/2006-02-19_a_sign_of_the_times__forgeri.html

rudy.

cincy13
01-20-2009, 11:01 AM
I know some of the high end jerseys in the Barry Halper/Sotheby's auction were won by card companies. I believe this includes the Ty Cobb Athletics jersey.

If I remember right, alot of Halper's high end jersey's were proven later to be bogus. I wonder, did they end up being cut up?

Ollie
02-01-2009, 08:40 AM
I found this video from Topps in which they tour the 'Relic Room' and explain how they prepare the items for their relic cards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzDa5jgVV-8

The view of the cut up Mantle jersey and bat makes me want to cry :eek:

Eric
04-21-2009, 09:55 PM
Is the autograph on this Kurt Warner swatch below the stitching?

http://webzoom.freewebs.com/jdworley/03%20Limited%20Prime/LT-64%20Kurt%20Warner.jpg

20662

joelsabi
04-21-2009, 11:16 PM
you got to love the premium dealers are asking for three colors game used swatches. someone tell what i am missing. :eek:

suave1477
04-21-2009, 11:25 PM
Is the autograph on this Kurt Warner swatch below the stitching?

http://webzoom.freewebs.com/jdworley/03%20Limited%20Prime/LT-64%20Kurt%20Warner.jpg

23930


Eric great catch!!!

That is a blaintant as it gets that this was not a game used piece.

It disgusts me what these card companies put in these cards and some poor guy probably paid a premium on that one.

xpress34
04-22-2009, 12:46 AM
Anyone see the Honus Wagner Sterling 1/1 bat barrel card. I believe with that signature on it, it's from a replica mini bat. A few of those on ebay and sig looks same as those. Anyone see a Wagner bat with this style of signature on it?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290290071438

Well the guy who pulled it made his payday - $11,100.00 was the winning bid!!!!!

- Chris

xpress34
04-22-2009, 12:51 AM
Wow, I didn't reealize that people faked patches on cards. It's a conspiracy!

OH YEAH.... check out Sports Card Forum (SCF) sometime (sportscardforum.com) - there are always articles about bad cards out there for sale...

As far as PATCH cards, there are some basic easy to follow guidelines:

1) If the card says Game Used Jersey, NOT Patch and it's a multi colored Patch - it's probably a fake

2) If it's a PATCH card that is either NOT #'d or is #'d over 25 - it's probably a fake, and for the most part, PATCH cards are #'d to 10 or less.

Just a quick FYI!!!

- Chris

coxfan
04-22-2009, 09:19 AM
Some general comments on this whole topic from a fellow who's been g-u collecting about 4 years. First, I agree that card companies take an enormous risk when they buy on the secondary market. They've claimed in the past that they do so only when the item is autenticated by a reputable company, but I've developed no trust in any authenticator as a result of what I've read over the past 4 years. Since the card companies now say they buy only from MLBPA-approved sources, it seems the MLBPA is also risking its reputation by approving any questionable sources. I also agree that vintage items ( eg a Ruth bat) should not be cut up.

However, I disagree with those of you who attack the whole idea of memorabilia cards. Many of us don't have either space or budgetary resources to accrue lots of whole bats or jerseys like some of you have. I don't have to hide a $10 bat-piece card from my wife, but if I'd bought the whole bat for $500 I'd have more explaining to do! Plus the card takes up a lot less space than the bat would, especially if I bought a number of them over time. And surely there are enough cracked bats over the course of a 2430-game season to satisfy us all.

Just for the sake of those of us who lack the space and finances to collect lots of whole items, let's allow memorabilia cards some tolerance so we can enhance our own hobby participation in an affordable way. I might add that I never pay more than $15, ( usually no more than $10) for a card, as I don't trust the authenticity of anything enough to risk bigger bucks. And I trust the law of averages; if I buy 30 g-u cards, surely a fair number of them will be authentic even if a few are not. I find the idea that card companies and the MLBPA would gamble their reputations on a tidal flood of fakes to be too far out for credibility.

suave1477
04-22-2009, 09:39 AM
Some general comments on this whole topic from a fellow who's been g-u collecting about 4 years. First, I agree that card companies take an enormous risk when they buy on the secondary market. They've claimed in the past that they do so only when the item is autenticated by a reputable company, but I've developed no trust in any authenticator as a result of what I've read over the past 4 years. Since the card companies now say they buy only from MLBPA-approved sources, it seems the MLBPA is also risking its reputation by approving any questionable sources. I also agree that vintage items ( eg a Ruth bat) should not be cut up.

However, I disagree with those of you who attack the whole idea of memorabilia cards. Many of us don't have either space or budgetary resources to accrue lots of whole bats or jerseys like some of you have. I don't have to hide a $10 bat-piece card from my wife, but if I'd bought the whole bat for $500 I'd have more explaining to do! Plus the card takes up a lot less space than the bat would, especially if I bought a number of them over time. And surely there are enough cracked bats over the course of a 2430-game season to satisfy us all.

Just for the sake of those of us who lack the space and finances to collect lots of whole items, let's allow memorabilia cards some tolerance so we can enhance our own hobby participation in an affordable way. I might add that I never pay more than $15, ( usually no more than $10) for a card, as I don't trust the authenticity of anything enough to risk bigger bucks. And I trust the law of averages; if I buy 30 g-u cards, surely a fair number of them will be authentic even if a few are not. I find the idea that card companies and the MLBPA would gamble their reputations on a tidal flood of fakes to be too far out for credibility.

Coxfan I don't thing in a broad spectrum anyone has a problem with you directly for collecting those cards.

But do all the math behind it. Is it really a more affordable way to get a piece of the item???
Let's say you pay your max $10 to $15 for a card. Which only includes a tiny sliver of the bat. Which percentage wise of the actual bat is less then a penny value (less then 1 cent). So your paying $10 or $15 for something worth less then 1 cent.

If you hold off on 5 or 10 cards that's $50 to a $100 in your pocket that you can buy a whole bat. Which is ten time more valuable then a tiny sliver.

You said also for the guys who can't afford the big ticket items its a more affordable way.
This is just my opinion and nothing against you.
But if I can;t afford something then I don't buy it.

I don't go to a BMW dealership and say can I just buy the hood of the car because I can;t afford the rest. NO.
I save my money till I can get the real thing.

But the problem I think mos to f us feel is.
1) By having these cards with the pieces your realistically ruining memorabilia by cutting it or chopping it up
2) As much as we would like to believe the card companines are just holding out for the broken & cracked bats to come along to chop up. Is highly doubtable.
I am sure whatever comes across there path gets axed.
3) Towards the collectors of these items as long as the card companies have you, they will continue to ruin good Game Used memorabilia.
4) Even worse some of the memorabilia is not reliable and to these collectors are getting taken, for something they think that they are getting something because they think it is more affordable.

Think of it like this also (Math quiz) - This is just a hypothetical example!!

You spend $10 a card for 5 cards - $50
$50 can get you an actual bat or Jersey

The card company that cut up that bat or Jersey. is cutting it up into small pieces.
Which your paying $10 on and for the thousands of pieces they are getting out of that item.
They are making $1,000 off an item that they now ruined that they orginally paid $50 for and your paying $10 for a piece.

coxfan
04-22-2009, 12:45 PM
Thanks to Suave1477 for his comments, which I read carefully and appreciate. However, I don't agree with the analogy that one doesn't buy the hood of car because one can't afford the whole car, because it doesn't apply to artifacts in general. My daughter bought me a piece of the Berlin wall from the Gerald Ford Presidential Library. I value it, even though I couldn't afford the whole wall. And I don't begrudge the Ford Library for making some money off of it.

Similarly, fossilized fragments of prehistoric animals are sold to folks who couldn't afford the whole animal. ( And yes, there are lots of authenicity issues there too!)

My point is that selling parts of artifacts is well-established in other fields. And I suspect there is close to one cracked bat, on average, for each of the 2430 MLB games yearly; not to mention thousands of other g-u items. That still seems like plenty for the relatively small world of collectors in any form.

both-teams-played-hard
04-22-2009, 01:44 PM
Think of it like this also (Math quiz) - This is just a hypothetical example!!

You spend $10 a card for 5 cards - $50
$50 can get you an actual bat or Jersey

The card company that cut up that bat or Jersey. is cutting it up into small pieces.
Which your paying $10 on and for the thousands of pieces they are getting out of that item.
They are making $1,000 off an item that they now ruined that they orginally paid $50 for and your paying $10 for a piece.
OK, I'm playing lotto tonight...I agree with Suave.
Cards are cool. Every member has collected them at one time or another. I think you are only kidding yourself if you collect "game used" cards and call yourself a "game used" collector. You can get some really nice gamers of common players for cheap. They're great conversation pieces, and you can spend hours researching the items. A "game used" card is a 1 inch x 1inch piece of fabric that has already been authenticated and researched by some idiot at a card company. I own 100s of jerseys and live in a cramped apartment with an adult woman and an adult cat. Duffle bags+closet=both-teams-played-hard archives. By the way, I'm broke as a joke.

suave1477
04-22-2009, 02:18 PM
Thanks to Suave1477 for his comments, which I read carefully and appreciate. However, I don't agree with the analogy that one doesn't buy the hood of car because one can't afford the whole car, because it doesn't apply to artifacts in general. My daughter bought me a piece of the Berlin wall from the Gerald Ford Presidential Library. I value it, even though I couldn't afford the whole wall. And I don't begrudge the Ford Library for making some money off of it.

Similarly, fossilized fragments of prehistoric animals are sold to folks who couldn't afford the whole animal. ( And yes, there are lots of authenicity issues there too!)

My point is that selling parts of artifacts is well-established in other fields. And I suspect there is close to one cracked bat, on average, for each of the 2430 MLB games yearly; not to mention thousands of other g-u items. That still seems like plenty for the relatively small world of collectors in any form.


Your comparing my analogy of a bmw to the berlin wall?? Not quite the same!!

Especially since the Berlin Walls siginificance was about standing up and being knocked down. Also I don;t think owning the whole berlin wall would realistically be within the financial means of anyones reach - except for Warren Buffet.
But then again I am not sure even he would like to try to ressurect the wall in his livingroom.
So basically your comparing apple to oranges.

These 2 are your statements:
Coxfan "My point is that selling parts of artifacts is well-established in other fields"

So basically what your saying is because this may be the norm for other hobbies then it should be ok with this hobby?? We should follow in other hobbies footsteps??

Not to mention hobbies such as bone collecting would naturally come in pieces. As in this hobby the Jersey didn't start of as being cut up before the player wore it!!

Coxfan "And I suspect there is close to one cracked bat, on average, for each of the 2430 MLB games yearly;"

Again your assuming, that 1 cracked bat for every game is the exact same one the card company is using. Trust me on this one, they use more then just the cracked bats.


Coxfan I am not saying your right or wrong, you collect your hobby as you see fit. I am just trying to understand your thoughts on it. That is all!!

coxfan
04-22-2009, 03:18 PM
I'm sure we all agree that getting whole items is preferable, and I have about 15 entire items ( including a base and two bats) to go with my 30 or so cards. But collecting whole items has practical limits, so I'm glad there's room for adding to one's collection in other ways. But I'm curious above Suave's statements regarding how the card companies acquire bats. I'm limiting my question only to current players, as I usually avoid retired players on the assumption that authenticity is more questionable for earlier periods, since the older items are more likely to have gone through more private hands. So how do you, Suave1477, believe that companies are acquiring current players' bats, when they all should have an ample supply of cracked ones available? Thanks in advance.

suave1477
04-22-2009, 03:41 PM
Coxfan well I would up at this point since there are current players the card companies can rely on going through current mlb teams/players. But unfortunately that has already been proving wrong. I am not sure if it is on this thread or another but it has even been proven that card companies actually placed retail model pieces of bats in cards. So I think from that it is safe to assume. That do not exclusively go through team/player.

Again you assumiong they are collecting cracked bats. Do you really think the card companies care what bats they cut up?
Did they care about cutting up a Babe Ruth Jersey?

Just as stated earlier in this thread these items come put of my collection your collection and everyones here at some point. They come from auction houses and personal peoples collections as well as players and teams. Maybe charities too.

nyjetsfan14
04-22-2009, 04:23 PM
I own 100s of jerseys and live in a cramped apartment with an adult woman and an adult cat. Duffle bags+closet=both-teams-played-hard archives. By the way, I'm broke as a joke.

LMAO! Nice to know I am not the only one :D

MJB14
10-15-2010, 08:42 AM
I guess you can say its kind of like looking at a group of cows grazing in the pasture just outside the slaughter house:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxi4ZijlBgE&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hs4o-kz6Hx8&feature=player_embedded

dcgreg25
10-15-2010, 08:53 AM
I guess Pannini is doing their part to thin the herd with the flood of GU jerseys coming to market. That video is just disturbing listening to the guy talk about how excited a collector is going to be to pull out a 1 inch patch of that jersey. Almost comical at the end how he says "look for these jerseys....er at least pieces of these jerseys to be in packs soon".

indyred
10-15-2010, 09:04 AM
Yeah, people crying about too many jerseys can be happy they do cut some up. The Jared Allen and Lee Evans are nice jerseys with sweet use. Evans is from NFL auctions. I wonder if they got Sanchez, LT and Allen jerseys from JO Sports. I have never seen a card yet with their hologram and thermal game info patch on it. Seen a few card with MeiGray tags on them.

Dach0sen0ne
10-15-2010, 09:05 AM
That's a damn shame. :(

spartanservitto
10-15-2010, 09:08 AM
what a tragedy, all in order to make worthless cards that flood the market. What a joke and a crime. That Alex English jersey was awesome, as was that Cunningham jersey... what a joke. Makes me upset.

-Tony

solarlottry
10-15-2010, 10:26 AM
What a shame. Too lose those classic pieces of history to worthless cards is tragedy. Those shirts are irreplaceable. The card companies must be paying BIG $$$$ to whomever owns those shirts in order to obtain them. It is also a shame in that collectors get shut out as the prices paid by the card companies are often inflated thus making the shirts unaffordable to the collector. I recently was bidding against Upper Deck for a 49ers gamer and i had to go several thousand $$$ higher than expected to win the shirt. I didnt know until the auction was over who i was up against.

JO sports and others are out to make $$$ so if they do indeed sell these shirts to card companies then they are doing what a successful business does albiet a bummer for collectors.

Ollie
10-15-2010, 10:51 AM
This one is very painful, especially when they showed the the Mantle pants cut up...

Inside The Topps Relic Room (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzDa5jgVV-8)

AWA85
10-15-2010, 11:07 AM
This one is very painful, especially when they showed the the Mantle pants cut up...

Inside The Topps Relic Room (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzDa5jgVV-8)

I think I am going to get sick..... watching him hold the bag of the cut up Mantle crossed the line with me.

allstarsplus
10-15-2010, 11:30 AM
Here is a Strasburg card out of Triple Threads and where does it even state this is swatches of his game used jersey?

These cards are selling for a few $100's

37148

37149

both-teams-played-hard
10-15-2010, 01:40 PM
Wilt was number "5" ? Who knew? I think you guys are haters. This a beautiful thing that Topps is doing. They are giving collectors a chance to own a piece of a sports relic. A small swatch that you could carry around in your wallet to bars and it makes a great conversation piece. You could also meet women. Chicks dig game used jersey cards. That Jim Brown jersey needs to get cut up, so everybody gets their fair share. It's made of that super heavyweight material. I forgot what it's called. Players shared pants all the time. Sometimes between innings. Homeboy with the mic saw Bob Gibson's pants and said "bitchin". Sorry all you old guys...he's ultra-hip and you're not.

sox83cubs84
10-15-2010, 03:40 PM
I likely have nothing that qualifies, and they'll doubtless never ask me, but, if a card company approached me to buy an item I owned or authenticate items they owned, I'd refuse.

Dave Miedema

TFig27
10-15-2010, 09:13 PM
This one is very painful, especially when they showed the the Mantle pants cut up...

Inside The Topps Relic Room (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzDa5jgVV-8)

Ollie,

If you see this, could you send me an email. Have a quick question. Couldn't find your email and your PMs are off.

Thanks a lot
Tom

TFig27@aol.com

joelsabi
10-15-2010, 09:48 PM
I guess you can say its kind of like looking at a group of cows grazing in the pasture just outside the slaughter house:

[/URL]

The guy said "look forward to these jerseys or pieces of these jerseys to be incorporated in Panini product"

so here's hoping Panini does the prudent thing and make a 1:100000000 odds redemption card to win the entire jersey. Aesthically speaking, the Triple Treads cards are superb but why not just use a replica jerseys or game issed jerseys to make the card? The jersey loses its historical significance as a game used equipment once it's cut apart. Can you imagine anyone justifying cutting up the original American flag that was sewn by betsy ross into little patches so that more Americans could own it?

stlbats
10-15-2010, 10:07 PM
People should STOP buying these rediculous cards and even the packs that they can be found in. This is just plain ubsurd. Those NFL jerseys all showed great use. If anyone on the board collects this crap, I challenge you to stop buying these cards.


Thanks
Jason
stlbats@bellsouth.net

Mulligans
10-15-2010, 10:22 PM
WOW.....Sad to say that I sold the Evans to JO only a week ago!:eek:

ivo610
10-16-2010, 12:04 AM
WOW.....Sad to say that I sold the Evans to JO only a week ago!:eek:

How much of JOs items are directly from teams and how much is from other collectors?

I wish I would have know, would have loved to buy that evans.

solarlottry
10-16-2010, 02:22 AM
I was told by another big time NFL collector that JO sold many items to the card companies for the explicit purpose of being cut up. It would seem that a company that wants to make the hobby a better place would not be selling small pieces of sports history to be cut up by a corporation. From a business standpoint itnis good business but from a collectors standpoint it sucks.

solarlottry
10-16-2010, 02:32 AM
WOW.....Sad to say that I sold the Evans to JO only a week ago!:eek:

When you sold the Evans shirt to JO did they specify that it would be sold to a card company to be cut up or did they make it appear as if they had a collector interested in it? I check their website almost daily for new additions and the Evans shirt never even appeared on it. I am going to assume that Mullligans had no idea that this Evans shirt would be sold to Pannini to be cut up or else I would hope that he wouldn't have sold it.

mfsquirrelmaster
10-16-2010, 03:26 AM
I think that the card company's cutting up a couple jerseys of current players really isn't that big of a deal. Most of the "star" players wear a new jersey ever game and if a couple get shredded it really isn't going to effect to much at all. Another Evans jersey can be found very easily. The Mantle, Jim Brown, and Wilt jerseys are a whole different can of worms. They should be in personal collections and museums. A benefit of the card company's doing this is that it will turn some people onto the real hobby of collecting game worn items. We are also assuming that the Wilt, Mantle, Brown, and other ultra rare jerseys are authentic and that is probably more likely not the case most of the time. If Topps is hacking up some of these fakes that is only a good thing. With all that said I agree with everyone else that this whole practice isn't a good thing and the card company's should move onto a new trend.

Mulligans
10-16-2010, 06:42 AM
I definitely didn't know and almost fell off my chair when I saw it in the video! I have been moving alot of my Bills jerseys and Jarrod picked it up off of Ebay. All he said was that he needed it right away.

I'm not really sure how I feel about the whole thing? It certainly seems to take away from the hobby, yet at the same time increaes the value of our items by reducing the Supply. I'm not sure that there are tons of Lee Evans out there and that is probably why Jarrod jumped on it.

JO asked me for a list of available Jerseys, but I havent had a chance to put it together and I think I will hold off because it really does leave you with a weird feeling.:(

Tedw9
10-16-2010, 07:00 AM
I know this forum is all about game used items but..... as we have learned lately, one "seller" was selling bogus game used items to be used on cards.

I am glad to see at least one company going to a reputable source to buy the jerseys. We know those jerseys ARE game used. No matter how much we hate it, how much we complain about it, people are GOING TO CONTINUE to buy game used cards. If those same folks find out that that the cards they own may be bogus, it may be enough to push them right out of the hobby. We can't afford to lose more collectors.

But if that same person finds out that yes, my jersey piece is 100% legit, they may be bit by the collecting bug and want to see how affordable the whole jersey would cost. They do some searching, find this awesome board crawling with folks who are willing to share all kinds of great information and see that yes, they CAN AFFORD a real game used jersey. Why pay hundreds of $$$ for a 1/1 piece when they can have a jersey for that same price, maybe just a little more. Then BOOM, they become a game used collector and our hobby becomes a little bit bigger and stronger. Exactly what our hobby needs, more collectors.

Now let me say I don't agree with cutting up the greats jerseys, Mantle, Williams, Ruth, Jim Brown, Wilt and those guys. No way, no how. But with today's guys, we can afford to have a few cut up. We all know there are enough ARod jerseys to go around and still be able to sacrifice a few without it causing a shortage. So have at it I say, cut up all the new jerseys and bats you want because they are making more every day.

I guess I am just trying to see the silver lining to the cloud, but that is just my nature.

bambelbitz
10-16-2010, 07:10 AM
I think it is safe to say that to see these videos sucks for everyone here in the forum, from a collector's point of view. Since I am relatively new to this industry and to this community (I have only purchased one game used NBA jersey) I would like to know something from the veteran collectors here:

From one jersey that they cut up in tiny pieces how many cards can be produced and at what price do the card companies sell them? (take for example that Wilt Chamberlain or the Bill Walton jersey)

What do you think is their profit margin on one of this jerseys by selling cards and not the entire jersey during an auction for example? I would estimate that almost all of these jerseys would go for at least a couple $10k and I don't see why "collectors" would give away a couple of hundreds of $$$ to earn a tiny piece of game used jerseys? Is it really that profitable from a business standpoint?

both-teams-played-hard
10-16-2010, 09:13 AM
From one jersey that they cut up in tiny pieces how many cards can be produced and at what price do the card companies sell them? (take for example that Wilt Chamberlain or the Bill Walton jersey)


In all seriousness, when did Wilt Chamberlain wear number "5"?

http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/8665/wilt5.jpg

joelsabi
10-16-2010, 11:08 AM
In all seriousness, when did Wilt Chamberlain wear number "5"?

http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/8665/wilt5.jpg

Hasn't worn #5 since high school.

Wilt used #13 while in Philadelphia. Guy Rodgers already wore #5 before Chamberlain joined the team.

Only could be these 2 players who wore #5 during this timeframe.
Steve Courtin
Paul Neumann

otismalibu
10-16-2010, 11:20 AM
In all seriousness, when did Wilt Chamberlain wear number "5"?

Does it really matter who wore the jersey? Or whether it's ever been worn at all? All long as the buyer is happy, that's really all that counts.

both-teams-played-hard
10-16-2010, 02:54 PM
Does it really matter who wore the jersey? Or whether it's ever been worn at all? All long as the buyer is happy, that's really all that counts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vn_PSJsl0LQ

indyred
10-16-2010, 03:15 PM
Maybe it's me. But once you sell something you have zero control what buyer does with it. If you like it so much, then you would have kept it instead of turning it into cash. Oviously the cash meant more to you than keeping the jersey. So if you know someone buying it was working for card company and the jersey was going to get cut up you would turn down offer and sell for less? How do you know that buyer then could just sell it again and it could still get into card company hands. With how often jerseys get moved and sold. No telling where some end up.

With how often people bitch about too many jerseys of modern players. To me it's no big deal some of them get cut up. Helps people who are keeping them in their collections. So it''s not all bad. I would think a lot of Favre, Sanchez, AP, LT jerseys have been butchered. But still plenty of those still around and tucked away in private collections.

GMoney1
10-16-2010, 04:57 PM
I am now a disgruntled card collector because of this shameless decision of chopping up vintage jerseys and bats. In some cases it is akin to chopping up a priceless work of art. The pieces become junk. I am ok with taking these bats and jerseys from current players unless they are of a historic nature because there is just so much current inventory out there. Take the jerseys that the player is wearing today as they are wearing several during the year but don't cut up history. It is just extremely sad to see this happening time and time again to one of a kind historic and priceless artifacts.

John Jimenez

http://www.freewebs.com/gmoney168/baseballtradelist.htm

34swtns
10-16-2010, 09:20 PM
The practice of cutting up historically significant game used items is nothing short of a friggin' TRAGEDY and if you buy this garbage and help perpetuate this practice you should be ashamed of yourself.
Period.

both-teams-played-hard
11-16-2010, 12:58 PM
Medalist Sand Knit did make some Cowboys pants. I thought only Southland made Cowboys jerseys during the D. White era. Thoughts?

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/3323/snapshot20101116094432.png

obeyone10
11-16-2010, 05:39 PM
I know from first hand witnessing that Historic Auctions/Authentic Sports Inc's owner Brad Wells sent over a dozen fake (new when they were delivered and stone-washed to add wear) NFL jerseys to Donruss in 2005. Donruss sent over a list of jerseys and bats that they needed to fill their orders. Brad sold the football jerseys for over $1500 a piece. Some for as much as $3,000. In one instance, Donruss sent two boxes full of memorabilia (in exchange) for memorabilia they needed. Included in this package was a McGwire 1999 Home Jersey and a few Griffey Jr items.

I've been collecting cards since 1986 and wouldn't buy any of these "game used" cards. The President of these companies cannot guarantee their authenticity. They should make public record of where every item came from.

Bryan Oberle
281-883-6142
bryanoberle@gmail.com

cammy collector
11-19-2010, 05:10 PM
enjoy :D

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c304/marinerfan815/HunterRAMIREZJsyCard.jpg

MarinersFan34
11-19-2010, 06:07 PM
Gotta love that!!

Interesting how the card is of Torii Hunter, but the labeling on the back of the jersey swatch says Manny Ramirez Grey.

sox83cubs84
11-19-2010, 10:30 PM
Warren:

Around 1982-83 or thereabouts, the Cowboys replaced Southland with Russell as their uniform supplier. Sand-Knit??? Never seen one that was a Dallas gamer.

Dave Miedema

cigarman44
11-19-2010, 11:52 PM
Here's a nice jersey piece from when Rick was a...Cincinnati Red??

panthrotc
11-20-2010, 01:27 AM
Alot of the game used cards have pieces of the equipment etc that you can not pinpoint to a specific game. One of the best Game Used sets to ever be produced was the 2001 Donruss Timeless Treasures set. They noted what game the achievement was from. Some of cards had pieces of game used seats,bats,balls,jerseys etc. The card that i had to get from that was the McGwire card. Some cards that have been prduced have pieces of balls used in a game but they are not the actual ball that made the milestone. The McGwire card is the only McGwire card that has a piece of the actual Ball that was hit for the HR. It is one of if not the only Game used card that has a piece of the actual HR ball. I brought the card to spring training and mac sign it and here it is. It contains a piece of the 9th HR of the 70 HR season of 98'

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t25/longball98/The%20McGwire%20Collection/Obtained%20By%20Me/mac3.jpg

both-teams-played-hard
02-02-2011, 02:54 AM
In all seriousness, when did Wilt Chamberlain wear number "5"?

http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/8665/wilt5.jpg
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/6674/snapshot20110201234145.png
Stand corrected. When I thought it was bogus, I didn't care that it was butchered, but now....
Look at the placement of that "5". Is that a fuggin' photo-match?
There's a special place...

rdeversole
02-02-2011, 09:29 AM
I can't stand to keep seeing this picture or video of Alan Narz. I lived in Orlando and frequented his baseball card shop... only because it was the only one around. He makes me cringe for some reason. Maybe it's the dweebieness he emits.

corsairs25
02-02-2011, 06:22 PM
I've been collecting cards since 1986 and wouldn't buy any of these "game used" cards. The President of these companies cannot guarantee their authenticity. They should make public record of where every item came from.

If they had to do that, they might be pressured into using actual game used material in their cards. And that would be a terrible waste of game used items.