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hblakewolf
04-13-2007, 10:42 AM
Forum Readers-
I have a customer who asked my opinion on a "1990 Tom Seaver Coaches jersey" currently on Ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Tom-Seaver-1990-New-York-NY-Mets-Game-Used-Worn-Jersey_W0QQitemZ150112018890QQihZ005QQcategoryZ605 97QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

The sellers description reads "Tom Seaver wore this terrific New York Mets home pinstripe jersey sometime during the 1990 campaign in the capacity of special pitching instructor. The near-mint jersey exhibits minimal wear as would be expected for a coach. "

My concerns are:
1. If it was used at spring training, 1990, it's my understanding that the Mets wore BP jerseys, not game jerseys

2. Was Seaver a "special pitching instructor" for the Mets at spring training? Possibly later in the season, as such, he would have a jersey?

I searched Getty Images for the 1990 season, however, there is no trace of Seaver ever working with the Mets in 1990 in a jersey, or for that matter, at all. Likewise, I can't locate any information on him being an instructor in 1990, either.

Any insight from Andy Fogel or other experienced Mets collector would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

ALWAYS BUYING PHILLIES, PORTLAND BEAVERS AND PORTLAND MAVERICKS JERSEYS

suave1477
04-13-2007, 10:56 AM
Howard I cant speak for this specific piece but I can give you some insight to the Mets Instructors and such.


First to be honest with you I would doubt this would be from Spring Training because its a regular season Jersey. But strabgers things have happend.

Could be from a Fantasy Camp!! Could be from an Off Season Instructing team.

The Mets have during off season baseball camps for player and Prospects coming up and have worn Regular season type of Jerseys, so Seaver could have been a special Instructor for this.

If it is from Spring Training it could be possible Seaver was asked to come by for a week or 2 where they would have provided him with his own Jersey. (Its really more for public relation purposes to have him come)

Example - Darryl Strawberry in 2005 and 2006 was the Roving Batting Instructor for there Spring Trainging and Minor League Teams and for each team they had a Jersey for him.
He would spend a week at each site and it was merely just for PR purposes

hblakewolf
04-13-2007, 10:59 AM
Suave-
I appreciate the response, however, it's really seesm odd that there would not be a single photo in Getty or some type of information available about Seaver's participation with the Mets in 1990.

I'm hopeful Andy Fogel or another Mets "expert" may have some type of additional info.

Thanks.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

suave1477
04-13-2007, 11:10 AM
Howard I disagree with you first of all remember if its from 1990 are you really gonna find much information out there about an old school player who stopped by to say hello?????

Getty Images???? You really think your going to find 1 image of a Special Instructor for a week who stopped by to say hello.

As far as finding an article on it highly doubtable its not exactly ground breaking news that Tom Seaver stopped by for a week.

I am not trying to sound sarcastic towards you Howard I am just making a point - if you check the early 90's for Yankees pictures during regular season you wont find Pics for almost half the team and if you do you might find a very small amount of pics.

So what are the chances of finding a Getty Picture of a special Instructor during off season???

Actually the best way to find out is to ask Seaver himself the only problem is I won't be seeing him for a month or 2.

hblakewolf
04-13-2007, 11:23 AM
Suave-
I understand completely.

Likewise, that's why I've asked for any other info that Forum readers may have (i.e, did the Mets media guide include anything about this in 1990, a local newspaper story, or possibly a first hand account from another reader who saw Seaver during Spring Training 1990 in this jersey or at some type of instructional camp).

In summary: Is there any evidence of Seaver wearing this in 1990?

Andy Fogel......are you out there??????

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

TNTtoys
04-13-2007, 11:31 AM
Hmmmm... Tom Seaver will be at the ROY show at the end of this month in north Jersey -- I should be there myself... but this doesn't exactly help this issue, as the ebay auction will be long gone by then.

I agree that this wouldn't exactly be "headline" news -- I tried searching news archives for information about other former Mets in these special roles (HoJo, Dykstra, Strawberry, etc.). The only ones I managed to locate are from the last year or so, but the main thing is that the articles were all recent. 17-yr old news articles, especially 'non-events' to the media, aren't readily available out there.

I have ruled out any possibility of him being a member of the coaching staff, so this has to be a "special pitching instructor" type of role... He is not listed on any coaching roster in the history of the team.

But in response to the "Mets wore BP" argument, they have also been known to wear game jerseys as well during Spring Training -- I own a "game used Mets spring training jersey" as part of my own collection.

The idea of this being legit is plausible, but I cannot seem to find any evidence out there.

suave1477
04-13-2007, 11:37 AM
TnT you are actually correct about them wearin regular season Jerseys in Sring Training.

I jumped the gun too soon on that resposne as I do remember someone wanting to sell me with direct providence from the player a Mets Jim Leyritz Spring Traing Jersey and it was a regular season Jersey.

suave1477
04-13-2007, 11:38 AM
I would still like to ask Tom about the Jersey anyway, usually at the shows me and him have lunch together when he takes a break from the singing if he has the time. So if he has the time ill ask him.

TNTtoys
04-13-2007, 11:49 AM
I would still like to ask Tom about the Jersey anyway, usually at the shows me and him have lunch together when he takes a break from the singing if he has the time. So if he has the time ill ask him.

Will you be at the ROY show on the 28th? If so, I would like to invite myself to lunch with you & your guest of honor :rolleyes:

suave1477
04-13-2007, 11:54 AM
TNT and the guest of honor???? I thought that was me lol lol

Well honestly its no biggie you can join, he always sees me at the show so from being a familiar face to him he always asks me if im hungry and want to grab a bite to eat. Since they have that bar/ resteruant there.

cbb5
04-13-2007, 01:12 PM
Some things that I noticed...
First off - Tom Seaver was a Yankee broadcaster during 1990, so I'm not sure he would be at Mets camp early in the year. Second of all, the Mets did not wear game jerseys in Spring Training (at least not until this year).
Third, every legit game used jersey that I've seen from the 1990 season has the strip tagging underneath the Rawlings tag (I have some pictures of examples that I can post when I get home). These appear on common players (like Darren Reed, Phil Lombardi, Chuck Hiller), which further reinforces this point. Fourth, the name looks a little spaced out and "flat" to me. It doesn't look right for some reason when compared with other jerseys from that year. However, the embroidery and tag style does look correct. Strange. Just my 2 cents!
Chris

suave1477
04-13-2007, 02:09 PM
Second of all, the Mets did not wear game jerseys in Spring Training (at least not until this year).
Chris

Chris again I have to disagree. I myself was offered a 2001 Jim Leyritz Mets Spring Training Jersey which was actually a Regular season Jersey.

cbb5
04-13-2007, 06:48 PM
Here are those pictures...

cbb5
04-13-2007, 06:54 PM
Show me a picture with the Mets wearing a regular season style jersey in Spring Training before this year and I will believe you. I have been watching the Mets for my entire life and have never seen it until this year. If you do a search on Getty you'll see plenty of Spring Training photos with them wearing their bp jerseys. Any other Mets experts care to chime in?

suave1477
04-13-2007, 07:18 PM
Cris unfortunaltey i cant post the pics here as im not good with downloading the over sized pictures here but i can email the pictures to you of the jersey

cbb5
04-13-2007, 08:29 PM
Ok - thanks! I don't mean to come off like a jerk - I just honestly have never seen it. My email is cbb5@hotmail.com. Maybe the jersey was made up for Leyrits before the season and then he retired before the season started?

metsbats
04-14-2007, 07:42 AM
Tom Seaver was definitely a spring training instructor in 1999 however I don't think in 1990 because of his duties as a Yankee broadcaster as everyone noted in the previous posts.

My guess is this may be an Old Timers Game Jersey if anything.

I like Nick's approach to try to ask Seaver at the May 21 show as he is usually good about remember his game used stuff.

I did send an email to Seaver (from the contact Tom email address at www.tomterrificseaver.com (http://www.tomterrificseaver.com) with the ebay link to this jersey and let's see if we get any response.

David

LHG39
04-15-2007, 11:04 AM
I agree with the last poster that this likely is an Old Timers game jersey. The Mets were still doing Old Timers Days in the early 90s and Seaver did participate in a few of them.

flaco1801
04-15-2007, 12:20 PM
dont think old timers jerseys would be tagged, i think the mets would have had cheap jerseys issued to the returning players, and how would they know what size to issue? many players come from far and away players, and just show up without any fittings? this could be a scoreboard jersey. Jeff

metsbats
04-15-2007, 12:58 PM
Here are two photos from George Kalinsky's NY Mets A Photograhic History book with Seaver wearing a similar pinstripe home uniform. The first photo is from 1988 becuase the Surf book the grounds crew member taking the photo is holding a 1988 Surf book under his arm. The second photo is not dated but could be from the same game. This does not prove anything about the 1990 jersey but demontrates that Seaver did wear home uniforms at Old Timer games.

The Mets did issue tagged jersey's during last years 86 Met reunion game and regarding how do they know what size i'm sure the team had to ask each player what size they would wear or want.

Not sure what they did in the 80's or nineties.

It would not be far fetched to think that the old timers jerseys are made from existing year stock which come in tagged and just numbered and names stitched in for the use for each old timer.

The Scoreboard theory is interesting though I'm not sure why a tagged 90 jersey of Seaver would be used considering he retired in 1987.

David

flaco1801
04-15-2007, 03:26 PM
that seaver jersey looks like an iron on number from the reflection? what you think? the mets wouldnt go to great expense for a old times game. ill see if i have an old times game from that time frame, presently watching the crajer jack old timers game from 85 ( they are wearing iron on lettering). JEFF

LHG39
04-15-2007, 04:20 PM
When the Mets used to do Old TImers games they did provide all of the players with authentic uniforms. Especially so for Seaver, the ONE Hall of Famer in team history.

If you guys want to doubt Ed Dolan, fine by me, perhaps I will get the jersey cheap.

Danny899
04-15-2007, 07:56 PM
Hello, I'm rather new to this forum, but I think I can help with this Seaver jersey. Before I began collecting game worn jerseys, I used to collect signed replica jerseys. (Mitchell & Ness and others) While shopping at a mall several years ago, I saw this same type signed Mets Rawlings jersey in a memorabilia shop. I thought it was real cool that they tagged it just like a gamer with the inside strip tag so I purchased it. It came with a COA from Scoreboard which certainly did not state anything about it being game used. I think there was a Schmidt and Canseco also available which were also tagged like gamers from Scoreboard. Hopefully this helps.

metsbats
04-15-2007, 08:28 PM
Danny,

Thanks for the information. Do you still have this jersey and will you be able to post photos. We'd love to compare yours to the one on ebay. If Scoreboard did issue Seaver autographed with some sort of 1990 tagging them and the one on ebay is one of them someone's going to spend a lot of $$ on a autographed unused jersey.

Thanks
David

Danny899
04-15-2007, 09:10 PM
Dave,
Sorry, I don't have it anymore. I got rid of most of the replicas after I got bit by the gamer bug. I used to have a home white Schmidt also, I think it was from 89, with the tagging in the collar. It had a T tag on it also. Again, not a gamer. But the Seaver jersey had the same exact strip tag with a similar placed signature. Dan

Eric
04-21-2007, 10:11 PM
Another one with identical tagging, also signed is in the current grey flannel auction. The nameplate on the rear lines up differently on the pinstripes than the one on ebay that Howard mentioned.

Lot 548
1990 Tom Seaver New York Mets Coaches Worn & Autographed Home Jersey (JSA)
Lot # 548

On the front left inside tail of the jersey is the "Rawlings" manufacturer's size "46" tag. To the right of the manufacturers tag is an embroidered strip tag that reads "90 2 41" in blue stitch. Across the front of the jersey is "METS". Below that and on the back is the player number "41". Across the back of the jersey is the player name "SEAVER" sewn directly on the jersey. All lettering and numbering is done in blue on orange tackle twill. The jersey is autographed on front in blue marker and rates an 8. The jersey shows wear and appears to have no alterations of any kind. The autograph is accompanied by a LOA from JSA.

metsbats
04-22-2007, 09:11 PM
Too bad we cannot see from front of the GFA Seaver jersey. Would like to see if the auto is in the same spot as the ebay jersey. If this is a Scoreboard jersey like the one Danny899 had one would think the auto may be in the same location.

Seems like alot of 1990 Seaver autographed jerseys out there.

-David