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jeseilheimer
01-09-2017, 05:43 PM
Big Buffalo Bills collector. Was recently in Buffalo for their game vs Pittsburgh this year. I made a visit to the "Big Tree In". If your a buffalonian or a Bills fan you will know the Big Tree as a bar down the road from their stadium that a lot of the 90's Bills used to frequent and still do. Same bar Rex Ryan went to and drank beers and ate wings with Kelly and Thurman after he was hired. Anyway, they have lots of game used jerseys framed throughout the bar. As I was having a beer I notice a Thurman helmet behind the bar. I offered the bartender to buy the helmet. She says she can't sell it so I ask if the owner is there and she says he's sitting next to you. So I offfer him x amount of dollars for the helmet and after some deep thought and to the shagrin of his son sitting next to him he sells it to me.

I've been trying to photo match it to a game but am having no luck. This is what I know about the helmet.

The face mask is one Thurman only wore from 1988-1990 and for the first few games of 1991. He then switched to a very similar mask for the rest of his career.

There is no back Riddell pad under the back lip of the helmet, just a Bills sticker that they added to the helmet in 1990. But Thurman always had that Riddell pad on his helmet.

The warning sticker on the back is white. All the warning stickers I have seen on his helmets from 88-90 were clear. He did have a white warning sticker on his helmet in 1992 but he wore the different mask that year.

Two reconditioning stickers can be seen inside the helmet. One is worn off and can't see the year. The other says recertified 1990, which means it was receritied after the 89 season.

Here is my conclusion. Was this maybe a practice helmet during the 1990 season, which was the Bills first super bowl season? Not sure if they had practice helmets then. The rare face mask (worn only for three years, 34 stickers on the back, 1990 recertification stricker inside, and who and where I obtained it tell me it's a legit Thurman helmet. Just trying to figure out the origin of the helmet. Pictures are posted below. Any thoughts would be great!

helmets
01-09-2017, 06:17 PM
I don't believe Thomas wore the helmet, unless he wore four stocking hats on his head along with an afro. A size 7 3/4 helmet is a huge helmet. Thomas has a smaller sized head. In fact, a helmet this size is a bit rare - with even large linemen wearing a smaller size than that. In my opinion, the #34 was added by someone other than a person affiliated with the Bills.

helmets
01-09-2017, 06:27 PM
Hit submit too soon...
The model of the helmet is a PAC3 which came out in the mid 1970's and was basically replaced by the WD1 in the early 1980's. I don't believe Thurman Thomas ever wore a PAC3 helmet given the fact that he started playing in the NFL in the late 1980's. In fact there were very few players in the NFL still wearing this model of helmet in the late 80's.

helmets
01-09-2017, 06:32 PM
Hit submit too soon...
The model of the helmet is a PAC3 which came out in the mid 1970's and was basically replaced by the WD1 in the early 1980's. I don't believe Thurman Thomas ever wore a PAC3 helmet given the fact that he started playing in the NFL in the late 1980's. In fact there were very few players in the NFL still wearing this model of helmet in the late 80's.

jeseilheimer
01-09-2017, 06:36 PM
Are these two different style helmets? They look very similar?

jeseilheimer
01-09-2017, 07:00 PM
Here are two pics from 88 of Thurman (helmets, this is the earliest helmet and mask he would have worn, do you know what type helmet this is?)

helmets
01-09-2017, 07:50 PM
Yes, they are two different models of helmet. Thomas appears to be wearing a VSR1. The front bumper of the PAC3 helmet which you bought is a leather piece that wraps around the front sizer (with air cells) and connects to the front of the helmet. The WD1 and the VSR1 have front sizers - independent of the front padding cells. The bumper is actually a "pocket" which holds a larger foam pad.

Also, the rear bumper (with the BILLS logo decal) is part of the rear sizer padding on a VSR1 helmet - as seen in the photos of Thomas early in his NFL days. Later, Riddell introduced the VSR2, VSR3, and VSR4 helmets which also had both the front pad inside of the bumper pocket as well as the rear pad which was a part of the rear sizer (air bladder) padding.

Look at the size of the helmet in your photo where you are holding it. It is massive - much larger than Thomas wore. Most likely the reason it was still around and refurbished for the 1990 season was because of its size,

Everything else looks ok to me on the helmet. The side stripes having the clear spacing as well as how they are cut. Perhaps it is just the photos, however the helmet appears to have some "Sports Bar atmosphere" smoke stains on it - both the interior and exterior decals/shell - yet the #34 on the rear seems to be very clean and bright white.

helmets
01-09-2017, 08:23 PM
Yes, they are two different models of helmet. Thomas appears to be wearing a VSR1. The front bumper of the PAC3 helmet which you bought is a leather piece that wraps around the front sizer (with air cells) and connects to the front of the helmet. The WD1 and the VSR1 have front sizers - independent of the front padding cells. The bumper is actually a "pocket" which holds a larger foam pad.

Also, the rear bumper (with the BILLS logo decal) is part of the rear sizer padding on a VSR1 helmet - as seen in the photos of Thomas early in his NFL days. Later, Riddell introduced the VSR2, VSR3, and VSR4 helmets which also had both the front pad inside of the bumper pocket as well as the rear pad which was a part of the rear sizer (air bladder) padding.

Look at the size of the helmet in your photo where you are holding it. It is massive - much larger than Thomas wore. Most likely the reason it was still around and refurbished for the 1990 season was because of its size,

Everything else looks ok to me on the helmet. The side stripes having the clear spacing as well as how they are cut. Perhaps it is just the photos, however the helmet appears to have some "Sports Bar atmosphere" smoke stains on it - both the interior and exterior decals/shell - yet the #34 on the rear seems to be very clean and bright white.

jeseilheimer
01-09-2017, 10:02 PM
Helmets,
This Cornelius Bennett game worn helmet below sold in a sports auction for over $800.00. You seem to know your stuff. Do you think it's legit.

helmets
01-10-2017, 09:07 PM
I like the helmet, however I don't believe it was worn by Cornelius Bennett. To be sure, I would have to look at it. Bennett wore an AiR Power helmet in a size large early in his career prior to switching to an XL helmet - which is the size he continued to wear even after switching to a Riddell AF2 with the Falcons - a helmet in which I had owned at one time.

As you know, Bennett started with the Bills wearing the number 55 - and the Bills had already switched to white facemasks when he was drafted, hence the #97 with the blue mask doesn't make sense. Could it have been a later Bennett helmet with a blue mask installed later - perhaps but unlikely.

This helmet is an AiR Power in a size large and I believe it was a Bills gamer. Did it belong to a 97 prior to Bennett - perhaps. Was the 97 added to the helmet after the fact - as many times numbers are added or changed later by collectors - perhaps. Its a nice helmet - I especially like the early blue side shockblockers using the surgical tubing which were worn by the Giants, Bills, 49ers and others - and are now almost impossible to find, but most likely not worn by Bennett.

Hope this helps you or hope I passed the test...

jeseilheimer
01-11-2017, 11:47 AM
Helmets,
You def passed the test, lol. Bennett never wore a blue mask. Like I said before you obviously seem to be vey knowledgable about helmets. Do you know if teams in the late 80's early 90's had separate helmets for practice?

gobills123
02-13-2017, 01:01 PM
Helmets,
This Cornelius Bennett game worn helmet below sold in a sports auction for over $800.00. You seem to know your stuff. Do you think it's legit.

Yeah... not knowing anything abt helmets the FIRST thing I thgt is no way, bc he was not even around in 1986... Maybe $800 was a good price for a helmet of that era anyway, but when you see things like this sell ( like the Tasker jerseys someone paid $300 for on the bay ystrdy YIKES!!!) I cant help but wonder if they know its bunk and just like it for what it is... or do they think they are getting whats advertised?? Ya feel bad if thats the case... but things like this helmet is 1 step removed from common sense...