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View Full Version : Lou Gehrig attributed Glove. LOL



yanks12025
10-19-2016, 12:57 PM
Anyone see this auction for a "attributed Lou Gehrig. Rookie glove". They pretty offer no real evidence to show how they attribute it to Gehrig besides he's using a similar one. Had a letter from a guy I've never heard of. Also like this part of the description

"This item has been extensively evaluated by our vintage baseball authentication team. No disputes or differing opinions from any and all outside authenticators will warrant any type of refund or dispute."

http://infiniteauctions.com/Draper___Maynard__D_M__Professional_Model__652___1-LOT723.aspx

sherbal15
10-19-2016, 01:24 PM
I literally was just looking at this glove on the website and was thinking the same thing lol.

Phil316
10-19-2016, 02:53 PM
Marshall Perkins is the owner. He also owns verified autographs

memorabiliaunlimited
10-19-2016, 04:33 PM
i never understood how auction houses get away with authenticating their own items before auctioning them (unless it is a 100% photo match). it is such a conflict of interest. there is no incentive to fail something - if someone buys something and then complains about authenticity, they just accept the return, give a refund, and there is no repercussion. everything should go to an outside expert for examination. some auction houses are WAY worse than others.

lund6771
10-19-2016, 08:20 PM
I haven't posted here in a while until I saw this thread...i know marshall very well... and I'm not posting in any biased way

If there is ever ANY issue with ANY item he would pull it in a heartbeat...if you guys know something is off please tell him because he definitely is not trying to
Slide anything by on anyone and would greatly appreciate the niche experts input

He started his auction house because he was tired of getting jacked around with other auction houses...he is also a collector

He's a great guy and I'm honored to call him a friend

I hope the mods take this thread down or at least clean it up since his character is being questioned unjustifiably...it's only fair since if there ever is the slightest negative statement made about Goldin it's removed before one can blink

Thanks

Marshall
10-19-2016, 09:49 PM
The Pujols jersey was purchased by our consignor from SCP Auctions. Visit the auction lot as the SCP label has been added to the listing. The Correa jersey is simply a professional model jersey with a starting bid of $200. I am open to any and all questions from any and all collectors in regards to all items listed in www.infiniteauctions.com (http://www.infiniteauctions.com).

Did you see the photomatched Michael Jordan, LeBron James, Allen Iverson, Derek Jeter and John Elway Jerseys????? ARE THOSE A JOKE AS WELL.

Any Questions??? Is this what the forum has come to? I've spent hundreds of hours away from my wife and kids sorting through photos, speaking with experts, authenticators, equipment managers and dealing with all types of people to present an auction to the public and rather than someone contact me at info@infiniteaucitons.com or call me at 480-988-5847...... We are here. I pull items just like any other auction house if valid information is provided.

PROVIDE SOMETHING FACTUAL AND ASSIST! Otherwise you're a gossiping child in my opinion.

LAME @PHIL3:16 Come and see me. I mean that. I'll be at the next national.:mad:

yanks12025
10-20-2016, 05:50 AM
The Pujols jersey was purchased by our consignor from SCP Auctions. Visit the auction lot as the SCP label has been added to the listing. The Correa jersey is simply a professional model jersey with a starting bid of $200. I am open to any and all questions from any and all collectors in regards to all items listed in www.infiniteauctions.com (http://www.infiniteauctions.com).

Did you see the photomatched Michael Jordan, LeBron James, Allen Iverson, Derek Jeter and John Elway Jerseys????? ARE THOSE A JOKE AS WELL.

Any Questions??? Is this what the forum has come to? I've spent hundreds of hours away from my wife and kids sorting through photos, speaking with experts, authenticators, equipment managers and dealing with all types of people to present an auction to the public and rather than someone contact me at info@infiniteaucitons.com or call me at 480-988-5847...... We are here. I pull items just like any other auction house if valid information is provided.

PROVIDE SOMETHING FACTUAL AND ASSIST! Otherwise you're a gossiping child in my opinion.

LAME @PHIL3:16 Come and see me. I mean that. I'll be at the next national.:mad:


Why don't you provide factual evidence supporting your Lou Gehrig. "Attributed" glove besides "we found a photo of him using one that looks like this. Your description says it has solid provenance, yet your description or letter mention no real provenance. I can find other first basemen gloves that look like ones Gehrig used.

Juicyfruit66
10-20-2016, 08:21 AM
How does posting a similar looking glove make it a match? Reminds me of that babe ruth bat auction from awhile back.

sherbal15
10-20-2016, 08:53 AM
The Pujols jersey was purchased by our consignor from SCP Auctions. Visit the auction lot as the SCP label has been added to the listing. The Correa jersey is simply a professional model jersey with a starting bid of $200. I am open to any and all questions from any and all collectors in regards to all items listed in www.infiniteauctions.com (http://www.infiniteauctions.com).

Did you see the photomatched Michael Jordan, LeBron James, Allen Iverson, Derek Jeter and John Elway Jerseys????? ARE THOSE A JOKE AS WELL.

Any Questions??? Is this what the forum has come to? I've spent hundreds of hours away from my wife and kids sorting through photos, speaking with experts, authenticators, equipment managers and dealing with all types of people to present an auction to the public and rather than someone contact me at info@infiniteaucitons.com or call me at 480-988-5847...... We are here. I pull items just like any other auction house if valid information is provided.

PROVIDE SOMETHING FACTUAL AND ASSIST! Otherwise you're a gossiping child in my opinion.

LAME @PHIL3:16 Come and see me. I mean that. I'll be at the next national.:mad:

My apologies - I should have provided my factual evidence to assist you, the professional who has spent countless hours speaking with experts on the items within your own auction.

Pujols Jersey - This jersey originated on eBay and sold for a paltry $346. Here is a link http://www.ebay.com/itm/221963438646?ul_noapp=true

Doesn't matter if it came from SCP or eBay really - the front "5" is absolutely the wrong size and placement on the jersey. The gap between the top of the number and the middle is wayyyy too large. The name on the back is also incorrect and looks like it was done at a local sporting good shop. I am guessing these inconsistencies are what drive you to list this same jersey over and over at each auction and the reason it continues to sell for $300-$600.

Correa Jersey - Originally you listed this jersey as a game used jersey from Correas rookie year. Of course that is impossible because the front tagging shows it to be a 2013 jersey. Correa didn't debut until 2015. This too appears in auction after auction on infiniteauctions.com. I guess you got it right this time by calling it a "professional model jersey". My apologies, I spoke too soon and I am glad you consulted with experts to get it right.

I have no idea about your photomatched Jordan's, elways, jeters, etc. Nor do I really care.

I also have never seen a company need to put a disclaimer on an item such as the "Gehrig" glove where you are basically not going to investigate or listen to any other "experts" on the glove's authenticity and that the buyer is basically stuck with it. That in of itself speaks volumes about your conviction on the glove's authenticity.

Challenging forum members to "meet you" is laughable. What are we in 8th grade? Why don't you go to the national and get some better "experts, authenticators, equipment managers".

Marshall
10-20-2016, 11:49 AM
My apologies - I should have provided my factual evidence to assist you, the professional who has spent countless hours speaking with experts on the items within your own auction.

Pujols Jersey - This jersey originated on eBay and sold for a paltry $346. Here is a link http://www.ebay.com/itm/221963438646?ul_noapp=true

Doesn't matter if it came from SCP or eBay really - the front "5" is absolutely the wrong size and placement on the jersey. The gap between the top of the number and the middle is wayyyy too large. The name on the back is also incorrect and looks like it was done at a local sporting good shop. I am guessing these inconsistencies are what drive you to list this same jersey over and over at each auction and the reason it continues to sell for $300-$600.

Correa Jersey - Originally you listed this jersey as a game used jersey from Correas rookie year. Of course that is impossible because the front tagging shows it to be a 2013 jersey. Correa didn't debut until 2015. This too appears in auction after auction on infiniteauctions.com. I guess you got it right this time by calling it a "professional model jersey". My apologies, I spoke too soon and I am glad you consulted with experts to get it right.

I have no idea about your photomatched Jordan's, elways, jeters, etc. Nor do I really care.

I also have never seen a company need to put a disclaimer on an item such as the "Gehrig" glove where you are basically not going to investigate or listen to any other "experts" on the glove's authenticity and that the buyer is basically stuck with it. That in of itself speaks volumes about your conviction on the glove's authenticity.

Challenging forum members to "meet you" is laughable. What are we in 8th grade? Why don't you go to the national and get some better "experts, authenticators, equipment managers".

Sherbal. Thank you for the useful information on the Pujols jersey. The Pujols jersey will be pulled and mailed back to SCP. Information like that helps the collecting community and assists me. Otherwise I'm not interested in vague opinions or gossip. As for your last comment. I'm not interested.

Marshall
10-20-2016, 12:55 PM
The Pujols jersey has been withdrawn due to the sharing of useful/factual information within the game used community. Thank you.

Juicyfruit66
10-20-2016, 02:55 PM
What WAS with the comment about asking phil to meet you at the national? It sounded like either a threat or you want to be his friend....

sox83cubs84
10-20-2016, 03:28 PM
FWIW: This isn't the first time a baseball glove had less than stellar authentication methods. A bit over 10 years ago, an authenticator needed to verify a Joe Morgan glove. His method: tossing it to me as I stood in an autograph line awaiting Morgan's signature while he sidled up behind Morgan and asked me to show him the mitt while he listened to Morgan's comments. Morgan did believe it to be his.

Dave Miedema

Marshall
10-20-2016, 05:03 PM
FWIW: This isn't the first time a baseball glove had less than stellar authentication methods. A bit over 10 years ago, an authenticator needed to verify a Joe Morgan glove. His method: tossing it to me as I stood in an autograph line awaiting Morgan's signature while he sidled up behind Morgan and asked me to show him the mitt while he listened to Morgan's comments. Morgan did believe it to be his.

Dave Miedema

Hello Dave,

Specifically enlighten me as to what specific authentication methods you would personally recommend as I respect your opinion. Or inform me as to what authentication methods would be used elsewhere.

-We can reference the size and weights of the two most recent sales of Gehrig gloves sold at auction.
-We can reference Draper & Maynard manufacturing records and catalogues from the period.
-We can document Gehrig's endorsement contracts with glove makers.
-We can even document his known glove styles worn during specific periods of his career.
-We can take into account the history of the glove from the consignor.
-We can even pull up hundreds of editorial images of Gehrig with the Yankees wearing an almost identical glove.

With only two known examples in the hobby (none being photo-matched) and this being the first rookie era glove I am beyond open to hearing expert opinions from serious vintage collectors and authenticators. The glove dates to almost a century ago so we obviously aren't going to get a player letter, Team LOA or MLB Authentication.

The glove is Authentic in my opinion. All auction houses have opinions. All authenticators have opinions.

If anyone can prove that the glove is not authentic I will pull the lot immediately. If someone has any additional historical support of the glove I will update the auction listing.

yanks12025
10-20-2016, 08:04 PM
Hello Dave,

Specifically enlighten me as to what specific authentication methods you would personally recommend as I respect your opinion. Or inform me as to what authentication methods would be used elsewhere.

-We can reference the size and weights of the two most recent sales of Gehrig gloves sold at auction.
-We can reference Draper & Maynard manufacturing records and catalogues from the period.
-We can document Gehrig's endorsement contracts with glove makers.
-We can even document his known glove styles worn during specific periods of his career.
-We can take into account the history of the glove from the consignor.
-We can even pull up hundreds of editorial images of Gehrig with the Yankees wearing an almost identical glove.

With only two known examples in the hobby (none being photo-matched) and this being the first rookie era glove I am beyond open to hearing expert opinions from serious vintage collectors and authenticators. The glove dates to almost a century ago so we obviously aren't going to get a player letter, Team LOA or MLB Authentication.

The glove is Authentic in my opinion. All auction houses have opinions. All authenticators have opinions.

If anyone can prove that the glove is not authentic I will pull the lot immediately. If someone has any additional historical support of the glove I will update the auction listing.


You haven't even proved that it's real!!!! Lol. Where is the "solid provenance" that you mention in your description.

As I stated before, it wouldn't be hard to find a glove similar to this one. So are you gonna call that also attributed to Gehrig.

Marshall
10-20-2016, 08:23 PM
Hello Yanks,

Please provide factual information. I'm not interested in debating with you as your conversation here doesn't lead me (or any other collector who is reading this) to believe that you've done any research on this particular item that would equip you to offer any accurate information in regards to this particular item. Where is your research? I would love for you to post it here as I want the hobby to be fully informed and your informed educated opinion is important to me and many others who read this thread.....


As Stated Earlier.......

Specifically enlighten me as to what specific authentication methods you would personally recommend.

-We can reference the size and weights of the two most recent sales of Gehrig gloves sold at auction.
-We can reference Draper & Maynard manufacturing records and catalogues from the period.
-We can document Gehrig's endorsement contracts with glove makers.
-We can even document his known glove styles worn during specific periods of his career.
-We can take into account the history of the glove according to the consignor which attributes the glove to Gehrig. Also, the glove comes from one of the greatest Yankees collections on earth.
-We can even pull up hundreds of editorial images of Gehrig with the Yankees wearing an almost identical glove.

With only two known examples in the hobby (none being photo-matched) and this being the first rookie era glove I am beyond open to hearing expert opinions from serious vintage collectors and authenticators. The glove dates to almost a century ago so we obviously aren't going to get a player letter, Team LOA or MLB Authentication.

The glove is Authentic in my opinion. All auction houses have opinions. All authenticators have opinions.

If anyone can prove that the glove is not authentic I will pull the lot immediately. If someone has any additional historical support of the glove I will update the auction listing.

Phil316
10-20-2016, 10:03 PM
Marshall,


Your reputation follows you, remember that. Goodluck.

Phil316
10-20-2016, 10:22 PM
What WAS with the comment about asking phil to meet you at the national? It sounded like either a threat or you want to be his friend....

I have no personal issues with Marshall Perkins. I just googled his name and that website came up with a complaint.

Clearly as a game used community we are always on the look out for forged/non authentic items. Just as much as we are looking for a great item. If an item is called out do the right thing and Marshall did that.

Will I bid at infinite auctions, probably not. Clearly others do and to each thier own.

Marshall
10-20-2016, 10:28 PM
Specifically enlighten me as to what specific authentication methods you would personally recommend as I respect your opinion. Or inform me as to what authentication methods would be used elsewhere.

-We can reference the size and weights of the two most recent sales of Gehrig gloves sold at auction.
-We can reference Draper & Maynard manufacturing records and catalogues from the period.
-We can document Gehrig's endorsement contracts with glove makers.
-We can even document his known glove styles worn during specific periods of his career.
-We can take into account the history of the glove according to the consignor which attributes the glove to Gehrig. Also, the glove comes from one of the greatest Yankees collections on earth.
-We can even pull up hundreds of editorial images of Gehrig with the Yankees wearing an almost identical glove.

With only two known examples in the hobby (none being photo-matched) and this being the first rookie era glove I am beyond open to hearing expert opinions from serious vintage collectors and authenticators. The glove dates to almost a century ago so we obviously aren't going to get a player letter, Team LOA or MLB Authentication.

The glove is Authentic in my opinion. All auction houses have opinions. All authenticators have opinions.

If anyone can prove that the glove is not authentic I will pull the lot immediately. If someone has any additional historical support of the glove I will update the auction listing.

seanbaseball
10-20-2016, 10:45 PM
Specifically enlighten me as to what specific authentication methods you would personally recommend as I respect your opinion. Or inform me as to what authentication methods would be used elsewhere.

-We can reference the size and weights of the two most recent sales of Gehrig gloves sold at auction.
-We can reference Draper & Maynard manufacturing records and catalogues from the period.
-We can document Gehrig's endorsement contracts with glove makers.
-We can even document his known glove styles worn during specific periods of his career.
-We can take into account the history of the glove according to the consignor which attributes the glove to Gehrig. Also, the glove comes from one of the greatest Yankees collections on earth.
-We can even pull up hundreds of editorial images of Gehrig with the Yankees wearing an almost identical glove.

With only two known examples in the hobby (none being photo-matched) and this being the first rookie era glove I am beyond open to hearing expert opinions from serious vintage collectors and authenticators. The glove dates to almost a century ago so we obviously aren't going to get a player letter, Team LOA or MLB Authentication.

The glove is Authentic in my opinion. All auction houses have opinions. All authenticators have opinions.

If anyone can prove that the glove is not authentic I will pull the lot immediately. If someone has any additional historical support of the glove I will update the auction listing.

It seems there isn't some special authentication method that u need to use or a certain expert you need to sign off on the glove. these old gloves without rock solid provenance are a guess at best. I think everyone is saying is that there is no real evidence to call this attributed to Gehrig any more than some other gloves out there. And your disclaimer on the auction makes it clear that once they pay u wash your hands of the glove. Like buying a used car.....sold as is...buyer beware. So stop asking others to authenticate your work......and if they cant then they are wrong. Seems like your job is to make the best case for the glove and people here are saying they aren't buying the case u made. It happens.

Marshall
10-20-2016, 11:06 PM
Marshall,


Your reputation follows you, remember that. Goodluck.

Thank you Phil316 and I apologize for the tone of my previous comment. That reputation rule applies to all of us and I wouldn't mind peacefully speaking with you privately not on a grand stage such as the forum as I would like to share some pertinent information with you. Further, I am always looking more information as I am first and foremost an authenticator. I've have successfully photomatched over $3 million in game used memorabilia over the last 10 years.

"Lou Gehrig attributed Glove. LOL". So many GUU members have an unrelenting thirst for negativity. This title alone was a major insult to my business, the consignor and my body of work. I'm standing up for authentic items being auctioned off to the collecting community. If someone brings facts to the table, I can work with that information to protect collectors as I have done since this discussion started. I don't mind a healthy discussion and thank you for your input.

Phil316
10-21-2016, 02:43 AM
Marshall,

We are a fairly tight community here on GUU. We try and tell it like it is. If something bothers us or rubs us the wrong way we discuss it.

3arod13
10-21-2016, 03:54 AM
I think an opinion or photo style match just isn't enough for a piece like this. We are talking big $$$ and there just has to be more than just that. But it is a great looking early glove!

sherbal15
10-21-2016, 08:48 AM
Thank you Phil316 and I apologize for the tone of my previous comment. That reputation rule applies to all of us and I wouldn't mind peacefully speaking with you privately not on a grand stage such as the forum as I would like to share some pertinent information with you. Further, I am always looking more information as I am first and foremost an authenticator. I've have successfully photomatched over $3 million in game used memorabilia over the last 10 years.

"Lou Gehrig attributed Glove. LOL". So many GUU members have an unrelenting thirst for negativity. This title alone was a major insult to my business, the consignor and my body of work. I'm standing up for authentic items being auctioned off to the collecting community. If someone brings facts to the table, I can work with that information to protect collectors as I have done since this discussion started. I don't mind a healthy discussion and thank you for your input.

Perhaps it would help to describe the origins of the glove? How did the consignor obtain it? Can you somehow link it's past to Gehrig? I know it's not a smoking gun, but it could go a long way with bidders to know it's history. Just my two cents.

Marshall
10-21-2016, 11:43 AM
This glove was purchased by the consignor in the mid 80's at an estate sale as a Lou Gehrig Game Worn Glove during the earliest part of his career. The estate sale had a number of rare New York Yankee items from this era including signed contracts, personal artifacts from players, game used bats and so on that were purchased by the consignor.
Also note that the consignor of the glove owns one of the finest private New York Yankees 1920-1940 Collections in existence.
It is a proven fact that Lou Gehrig wore a Draper & Maynard Model #652 Model (Right Hand) 1st Base Mitt during a number of games from 1923 until 1926.
The glove is original as manufactured according to Draper & Maynard catalogues from the era.
The glove is of accurate size and weight according two other Lou Gehrig attributed gloves that have recently sold at auction. (Neither being photomatched or guaranteed game used)
Extremely similar gloves are seen worn by Gehrig in a number of photos from 1923-1926 while playing for the New York Yankees.
Usually provenance on an item that is almost a century old is just a story. The century old story of the original acquiring of the glove from Gehrig is absent but the details of the history of him using this exact right hand D&M model #652 glove are accurate and present. Hopefully bidders will bid according to their confidence in the information provided.Thanks to all GUU members who have posted or viewed this thread. This is my final post. For further information please contact me at info@infiniteauctions.com

Juicyfruit66
10-21-2016, 03:03 PM
One of the world's finest yankees collectors would have provided the estate sale information to the auction house right? And if this collector is so renowned wouldnt it be in their interest to state their name to add legitimacy to the "bought at estate sale" provenance? Like why would the seller leave those two key factors out?

Marshall
10-21-2016, 03:10 PM
The consignor of the item is offering his personal information to users who have placed a bid on the item.

Juicyfruit66
10-21-2016, 04:21 PM
If hes so well known why only tell bidders? Isnt that important info that would entice more bidders? None of this is making sense.....let's pretend he's a super private guy, why not at least tell the origin of who's estare sale it came out of and what other yankees relics were included?

CollectGU
10-21-2016, 04:31 PM
If hes so well known why only tell bidders? Isnt that important info that would entice more bidders? None of this is making sense.....let's pretend he's a super private guy, why not at least tell the origin of who's estare sale it came out of and what other yankees relics were included?

It is common for consigners to want to stay private and not have their names out there. Often the auction will advise a prospective bidder who they are and even arrange for them to speak to the consignor which is perfectly acceptable. In auctions like this, the auction house has one their due diligence, presented what they know an it is up to buyers to decide if they feel comfortable bidding. I see no problem here..

To have people like yanks insinuate that the item is a joke is irresponsible, especially if they have provided no evidence or diligence to confirm why t it is a joke. Frankly, its unfair to the consignor and the auction house to try and paint an item as being misrepresented or "bad".

Marshall
10-21-2016, 04:34 PM
If you're asking me to post his contact information on the forum..... That's not going to happen. If you contact me directly as I've insisted on several posts...... I will have the consignor contact you and he is extremely knowledgeable in regards to vintage baseball items of the era. He is honestly one of the most informed collectors that I've had the honor to meet.

CollectGU
10-21-2016, 04:35 PM
Seems like your job is to make the best case for the glove and people here are saying they aren't buying the case u made. It happens.

If you are not going to buy the case presented, fine. That is your choice as a buyer. But to publicly try and shame an item without concrete eviene of why you are shaming it is wrong.

The Pujols post responsibly explaining its problems is a good example of how it should be done and the action taken by the auction house is what you want to see.

Also, did Yanks call the auction house to voice his concerns prior to posting here?

Marshall
10-21-2016, 04:37 PM
It is common for consigners to want to stay private and not have their names out there. Often the auction will advise a prospective bidder who they are and even arrange for them to speak to the consignor which is perfectly acceptable. In auctions like this, the auction house has one their due diligence, presented what they know an it is up to buyers to decide if they feel comfortable bidding. I see no problem here..

To have people like yanks insinuate that the item is a joke is irresponsible, especially if they have provided no evidence or diligence to confirm why t it is a joke. Frankly, its unfair to the consignor and the auction house to try and paint an item as being misrepresented or "bad".

Thank you......

Marshall
10-21-2016, 04:39 PM
If you are not going to buy the case presented, fine. That is your choice as a buyer. But to publicly try and shame an item without concrete eviene of why you are shaming it is wrong.

The Pujols post responsibly explaining its problems is a good example of how it should be done and the action taken by the auction house is what you want to see.

Also, did Yanks call the auction house to voice his concerns prior to posting here?

Thank you once again.........

yanks12025
10-21-2016, 04:58 PM
If you are not going to buy the case presented, fine. That is your choice as a buyer. But to publicly try and shame an item without concrete eviene of why you are shaming it is wrong.

The Pujols post responsibly explaining its problems is a good example of how it should be done and the action taken by the auction house is what you want to see.

Also, did Yanks call the auction house to voice his concerns prior to posting here?

They don't even have concrete evidence that it is real.

And the fact that they say "No disputes or differing opinions from any and all outside authenticators will warrant any type of refund or dispute." shows they know it wouldn't pass authentication from people who's opinion is actually valued when coming to professional model gloves in this hobby.

Also I didn't call them but I did contact them days before this post. And I'm sure several other people have emailed them before me.

seanbaseball
10-21-2016, 06:51 PM
I don't see anything fraudulent or intentionally misleading here like the Pujols they were good enough to pull when they realized what they had or didn't have for that matter. This is just a case of little evidence that's nothing more than circumstantial. I think the auction makes its case which is reasonably weak in my mind but is as much as you can really make on a glove like this without direct provenance. Clearly the disclaimer statement in the auction says it all. If u buy we wash our hands of it. I think that makes a loud statement and buyers should be smart enough to understand what that means. No reason to say this item is fraudulent, its just is what it is............. a maybe, could be, who knows if Gehrig wore it glove and the price should reflect that.