Syracuse Basketball Jersey In Mastro?

[Eric]

Hello everyone

I wanted to ask some questions about the Billy Owens Syracuse jersey in the current Mastro Auction.

I have not been able to find any Syracuse jerseys from the years Owens was there with front numbers as small as this one from mastro
http://images.mastroauctions.com/images/Auction40/photographs/60606a.jpg
http://www.mastronet.com/index.cfm?action=DisplayContent&ContentName=Lot%20Information&LotIndex=67796&CurrentRow=1

Owens played 3 seasons at Syracuse
1988-89
1989-90
1990-91

(I wrote Mastro yesterday and have not heard anything. I even sent them photos from each season with numbers this size.)

3166

3167

Can anyone find game photos with these small numbers? I asked Mastro to send me the pic Lampson used to write his LOA and will share it once I hear back.
Thanks
Eric

[mchmaj]

I am syracuse Orange collector and this jersey doesnt worn or issued for billy owens , seem like its sample jersey from champion company. Syracuse always worn bigger numbers on the front of the jerseys since syracuse worn champion supply.

marcus chmaj

[both-teams-played-hard]

The front numbers seem painfully small. Also, I have seen numerous Champion salesman's sample Owens Syracuse shirts on eBay. They had the same tags as this one, however, did have correct numeral sizing.

[Eric]

Another 1990 photo of owens

3182

[3arod13]

I am syracuse Orange collector and this jersey doesnt worn or issued for billy owens , seem like its sample jersey from champion company. Syracuse always worn bigger numbers on the front of the jerseys since syracuse worn champion supply.

marcus chmaj

mchmag, are you from Syracuse? If so, always great to come across people from home. Left Syracusue in 1978, after joining the Navy.

[mchmaj]

my last name is CHMAJ :)
anyway yeah i was born and raised in SYRACUSE and i used to live few blocks away from carrie dome and 10 blocks from manley field house... i was thrilled to hear that MELO Anthony is planning to give $$ toward Manley Field House to UPGRADE and it will help get better players!!! anyway i know syracuse uniform since 70s and i have much more SU lacrosse and football jerseys, the basketball jerseys i only have two and they are SIMS #3 orange jersey from 1996, first year nike uniform supply, and the 2002/2003 game used #32 cole orange jersey, he tranferred in decmeber 2002 and he missed the championship run ! i also got all SU game shorts from 1987 to 2000, and the newer SU shorts are hard to get by, ANYONE OF U GOT SU orange game shorts that u can sell to me ????
cheers
marcus chmaj

[Eric]

I'm a Syracuse guy too. Class of '93. Saw some great players and a lot of tournament disappointments.

Eric

[mchmaj]

Eric,
do u have any 90s syracuse football or basketball jerseys for sale or trade ??
let me know
thanks :)
marcus

[jdr3]

Here are photos of owens from the 90 & 91 seasons. While the numbers are much bigger, note the size of the numbers on the BC 91 unifroms. Did Syracuse change to the small size for owens senior season?

[Eric]

Owens did not play his senior season. He was drafted after his junior year.

Eric

[3arod13]

I'm a Syracuse guy too. Class of '93. Saw some great players and a lot of tournament disappointments.

Eric

Eric, SU College grad of 93? Tony

[Eric]

Yep... SU Class of '93... I'm still cold...
Eric

[3arod13]

Yep... SU Class of '93... I'm still cold...
Eric

Cool! I was born and raised in Syracuse from 1960-1978. Joined the Navy following high school. Now, living in Virginia now. Weather much better than upstart NY.

[both-teams-played-hard]

Where is this jersey?
http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/2794/jimbrownsyracusets6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Jim Brown most likely thought the winters in Syracuse were cold, also. In 1955, he wasn't allowed to play anywhere south of Delaware and east of San Francisco.
Don't make no sense...does it?
It makes as much sense as any Major League baseball team, before 1947, calling themselves "World Champs". World Champs???? You haven't even beaten the the best competition in your own damn country. I'm going to Atlanta this summer to spit on Ty Cobb's grave.

[otismalibu]

Where is this jersey?

I could tell you, but then I'd have to smash your windshield with a shovel.

[both-teams-played-hard]

I could tell you, but then I'd have to smash your windshield with a shovel.

Sure, Jim Brown is/was a wife-beater. However, that doesn't excuse the backwards-ass rule makers of the south in the 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s and most years before.

Jack Nicholson used an 8-iron...more glamorous.

[Eric]

The Owens jersey is still up and has two bids.

I asked Mastro to see the gane photo Lampson used to write his LOA.
Got an email back from Mastro saying they were looking into the situation and will get back to me asap.
Eric

[rose14]

I like Mastron Auctions but they really need to do more checking on these items rather than just relying on someone as worthless as Lou Lampson. I started a thread back in the fall about a supposed Darrell Griffith game used University of Louisville jersey that they had in their auction. I am a huge U of L fan and I knew the minute I saw the auction that it wasn't right and I even contacted the school and found out from Griffith himself that the jersey in the auction wasn't legit. It wasn't even made of the same material and the numbers & lettering were the wrong color. Lampson still believed it was real even after I presented him and Mastros with this information.

[Eric]

Did you present the information to him directly, or did you have to go thru mastro

[rose14]

My info was sent directly to both Lou Lampson and to Mastros who also showed it to him and Lampson still said it was game worn by Griffith even after Griffith himself said it wasn't. Lampson is a criminal in my book and any auction that still uses this guy is just doing more harm to the hobby.

[stkmtimo]

Do any of the Syracuse alumni on here remember a basketball player by the name of Jason Mallin in the late 1990s? Is any of his game used stuff available?

Thanks,

Tim

[Eric]

I originally wrote Mastro on the 5th. It's now the 13th and there still is no definitive answer.
Seems odd since all they have to do is ask their authenticator Lou Lampson to provide the photo he used to authenticate the item.
Eric

[otismalibu]

Seems odd since all they have to do is ask their authenticator Lou Lampson to provide the photo he used to authenticate the item.

And this begs the question...

Why don't auction houses & authenticators show us the pictures, if indeed they use them? I'm not talking about photo match pics, simply style matches.

[3arod13]

I originally wrote Mastro on the 5th. It's now the 13th and there still is no definitive answer.
Seems odd since all they have to do is ask their authenticator Lou Lampson to provide the photo he used to authenticate the item.
Eric

Truly saddens me to see things like this happen. So many dishonest people. Authentication, when first started, was a good thing for the hobby. Although not perfect, now, everyone is taking advantage of making money vice ensuring we are keeping the hobby safe.

[Eric]

I got a response from Mastro today. They're were having trouble getting hold of Lampson. Apparently Lou wanted to confirm which numbers we were talking about.

I told them it was the front numbers, and wanted to get a copy (emailed or faxed) of the photo Lou used to write his letter of authenticity, since I have not been able to find one with numbers that small. Wondering what his research materials were.

Eric

[PRBill1]

'96 Grad of SU here...any thoughts on the McNamara jersey? Having problems finding pics of the game where they used these jerseys.

Thanks.

Bill

[mchmaj]

they worn this style in 2004 season against notre dame , the throwback style BUT this jersey was an sample beacuse i used to own it and it had SMITH on back and i removed the letters and tried to bleached it out and it did came off some of it .... then i went ahead and traded it to a guy from new orleans, LA he said he need buy some college jerseys to put up on the wall for his new bar... i guess he LIED ... am not gonna to mention his name ...
the mcnamara throwback jersey is NOT GAME WORN !!!

marcus chmaj

[mchmaj]

the owens jersey was mine and i sold owens and mcnamara very cheap to a guy from new orleans, LA . i even warned him that the name on the back was removed and the billy owens is game issued and the front number is smaller than usual. he said its fine since he can put front jersey of mcnamara and back jersey of the owens for his new Bar and Pub joint in New Orleans or does he has one ? dont know for sure right now as i know he sent them to mastros.....

marcus chmaj

[Eric]

Marcus-

Thank you for the info. It will be interested to see what Mastro has to say about your info.

I still want to see the photo that Mr. Lampson used to write his letter on these jerseys, especially given this information.
Eric

[Eric]

Mastro customer service wrote me back today (they have been good about writing back to me, they are just still waiting on a response from mr lampson). They said they were forwarding my email to lou. (Despite what I have been told by many of the people who employ him, I guess he does have an email)

I sent them the post from Marcus saying he originally owned these jerseys and sold them to a fellow in New Orleans as non game used. They are not in mastro's auction as game used.

We'll see what lampson says. I have since asked them to send me his email address since Mastro seems to know it.

Thanks
Eric

[mchmaj]

scott robinson aka deacs86 bought theese syracuse jerseys (owens and mcnamara) from me that are now listed as game used in mastro. he is the same person associated with the reggie bush saints jerseys in question and the person eric wrote about having to confront to get a refund on chargers jerseys

marcus chmaj

[kingjammy24]

eric,

i admire your tenacity in getting lampson to provide the basis for this particular authentication. please keep us informed of any updates.

to date, lampson is the only major authenticator i've seen that actually authenticates entire styles that were never even worn!

dozens, if not hundreds, of collectors have searched high and low for images that would justify several lampson authentications and have come up short. while you're in communication with him, here are two other authentications he's done recently that i'm sure many would love to see the photos for:

1997 Cal Ripken BP - (AMI) - jersey style never worn
1996 Cal Ripken road jersey - (AMI) - jersey style never worn

these two were, literally, styles never ever worn by the orioles. yet lampson gave them a thumbs up. what was his justification?

and of course, how can i forget the "titanic" of the hobby - lampson's infamous ripken st.pats jersey. (i think that one has value based on the notoriety alone). lampson seems to have a special difficulty with ripken jerseys. and why shouldn't he? so little is known about ripken. the man was a mere blip on the radar of baseball and as such was rarely photographed. i can't imagine the difficulty in locating photos of the 1996 and 1997 orioles. good lord it must be like trying to find a photo of sasquatch doing the charleston.

i think it's unfortunate that while men like skilling, ebbers, kozlowski, etc were all caught and are serving prison terms, lampson is able to continue to ply his special brand of garbage simply because he does it in an unregulated, relatively unmonitored industry. (for employers who, despite solid proof of his errors, often simply reply that they "stand by his opinion").

rudy.

[Eric]

dozens, if not hundreds, of collectors have searched high and low for images that would justify several lampson authentications and have come up short. while you're in communication with him, here are two other authentications he's done recently that i'm sure many would love to see the photos for:

1997 Cal Ripken BP - (AMI) - jersey style never worn
1996 Cal Ripken road jersey - (AMI) - jersey style never worn

these two were, literally, styles never ever worn by the orioles. yet lampson gave them a thumbs up. what was his justification?

rudy.

Rudy-

I think the auction houses who employ mr. lampson have top be responsible for getting answers. I think AMI should be pressed for answers on the pieces above.

It is VERY frustrating that Mastro has not been able to provide the answers on the Syracuse jerseys. That shows that there is an inefficient system to get info on their items. If I were an auction house, I'd be embarrassed by not being able to answer questions from a buyer.

I hope the auction house is as frustrated as I am with this and wouldn't want to put up with it in the future. Maybe I'm unrealistic....
Eric

[kingjammy24]

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it."

rudy.

[both-teams-played-hard]

...good lord it must be like trying to find a photo of sasquatch doing the charleston.



Rudy, How 'bout a photo of sasquatch doing the charleston, while wearing a green Ripken?
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/4841/sasqxe0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Don't forget Lampson incorrectly authenticated a University of Cincinnati Bearcats warm up as a Kansas City Kings warm up of the NBA....sold by AMI. I have no proof that AMI accepted payment from the high bidder. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

[Eric]

While I admit I laughed at b-t-h-h's X-File (which may never be solved), I think we should stay on topic.

It is now 12 days since Mastro has been looking into my questions about their syracuse jerseys. These are simple questions which should be able to get answers quickly. Honestly, I don't understand it.
Eric

[Eric]

Mastro has posted a modification to the listing in the Billy Owens auction.

Mastro has said that Mr. Lampson does not want his email address given out. Guess that shoots down the story floated by many of the auction hosues who employ him that he does not know how to use the internet.

Here's what Mastro wrote:
The Champion tail label on this Owens jersey slightly precedes Owens' initial enrollment at Syracuse in the fall of '88, suggesting that this may have been a signing day or extremely early representation for the young forward. The front number is smaller than the norm, that is readily apparent; however, the other ornamental features such as trim, NOB, verso number, team name are in fact correct. Champion was a "down the street" vendor/supplier for Syracuse athletics and the company was known for its occasional variances in numeric identifier sizes as exemplified by their Jets and Patriots 1980s offerings, their Celtics late '80s/early '90s offerings as well as those provided to Notre Dame and other collegiate athletic programs. Given the above, it is entirely possible that it was worn by Owens early in his collegiate career although a provenance trail, which does not exist, would have possibly been able to substantiate the aberration in the front number size.

Where was any of this information before? And where is the photo proof that anyone from Syracuse ever wore a number like this?

Mr. Lampson, now that we know you use a computer- maybe you're reading this. How about giving us some answers?
Eric

[hblakewolf]

Eric-
Based on Lampsons keen research on this particular jersey, is it any wonder that we have green St. Patrick's Ripkens and countless items in every auction he authentcates for being questioned?

As long as the auction houese are willing to accept this type of answer when questioned and collectors are too damn lazy to even try to complete their own homework or possibly spend the needed time to educate themselves, Lamspon and his completely worthless LOA's will continue to be offered to those who need a crutch in order to buy a jersey or other piece of game used equipment.

In this case, Mastro should be ashamed to even respond to you with this type of nonsense.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

ALWAYS BUYING PHILLIES, PORTLAND BEAVERS AND PORTLAND MAVERICKS JERSEYS

[kingjammy24]

eric,

congrats on getting a response. you've got more patience than i do. i'm sure there are hundreds of collectors out there would love a response from lampson on his various authentications. similarly, i'm sure many have long wondered what lampson would do when confronted with solid evidence contradicting one of this authentications. i suppose we now have our answer; go with the "anything is possible" explanation.

the statement reads as if it's from someone who just got a thesaurus for christmas. "..occasional variances in numeric identifier sizes". i had to read that 8 times before i realized he was referring to the size of the front numbers.

anyway, based on this reply, i can foresee what his response would be to the green st.pats ripken. "based on the popularity of the color green on st.patrick's day, and the fact that ripken did indeed wear the numeric identifier "8" while playing for the orioles, it is entirely plausible that he may have worn this jersey. a single photo of any oriole wearing a st. pats jersey, which does not exist, would help substantiate this jersey"

rudy.

[Eric]

Hey everyone

I going thru old paperwork, I found an AMI catalog from 2004. They sold the an Owens jersey with the small numbering- same size with a letter from Lampson.

Is this is same jersey as the one sold by Mastro?
AMI
http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=12153
Mastro
http://www.mastronet.com/index.cfm?action=DisplayContent&ContentName=Lot%20Information&LotIndex=67796&CurrentRow=21

By the way gang, still no photo from Lampson (and for that matter no thank you from mastro for hounding them to analyze the details on a shirt with unanswered questions. It doesn't matter if it's a $100 item or a $10,000 item- the authenticator is repsonsible for putting his name on merchandise he can prove is real. Ultimately they changed the auction description but I never got an email back suggesting that perhaps I saved them from the embarrassment of an auction house selling someone an item that wasn't as claimed because they could not contact their authenticator for weeks. Perhaps in that non existent email there would have been something conveyed that the work done here is appreciated since everyone makes mistakes and this helps their company in their attempt to sell the merchandise. Then something about how they'll continue to follow up with Mr. Lampson about his research on this jersey and if he continued to give non specific answers they would find that as unacceptable as the people who are shelling out the money. Alas, that email did no exist. Oh well)

Hey Lou, if you're reading this since I know you're on email (despite what some of the other auction houses who employ you say) why don't you email me the photos directly at ecky3@aol.com. I look forward to hearing from you.
Eric