MEARS vs PSA LOA for Bats

[GoCrazyFolks76]

I would like to know what the general consensus is on a MEARS vs PSA LOA on bats.

I recently came across this Ruth bat (http://www.infiniteauctions.com/Babe_Ruth_1921_31_New_York_Yankees_H_B_Louisville_-LOT180.aspx) on Infinite Auctions and noticed that it only had a MEARS LOA, and the date range of the bat according to MEARS was form 1921 - 1931. I emailed John Taube about the bat, and he pointed out that the date range of the bat was 1923-1925.

I then looked through Malta's book on dating LS bats (A Complete Reference Guide Louisville Slugger Professional Player Bats), and saw exactly why John dated the bat to a 3 year span vs an 11 year span.

So, my question is, does MEARS not use Matla's book as a reference guide when dating their bats? If not, is it because there are questions about the book? Do they not want to use a competitors reference guide? Or, are they just lazy?

What do you guys think?

[danesei@yahoo.com]

Whenever I post anything about MEARS, I get an email from Troy asking me not to say anything bad about his stuff that he sells or authenticates. That said, I've come to take MEARS LOAs with a grain of salt. If given the choice of a MEARS bat or PSADNA bat LOA, I'd prefer the PSA. That's entirely a personal choice.

[Phil316]

Whenever I post anything about MEARS, I get an email from Troy asking me not to say anything bad about his stuff that he sells or authenticates.

Are you serious ?

[STLHAMMER32]

There will be errors with any service....my personal opinion is that PSA is the most respected among collectors but I'm not sure worthy of the title. In a statement you could say they are accurate and overall thorough. However, for specific players I'd feel much more comfortable with a few of the collectors verifying specific player characteristics. Their Loa may not be as recognized by the average collector and it likely will not increase the value as much as PSA but I find these to be much more accurate.

Just for a few examples of what I mean...
I've seen several bats with wrong years associated with bats.. I've owned a few wrongly detailed.

I can't even keep track of the number of errors I'vs seen on PSA letters as well. I've seen a few sloppy errors such as a name not matching the bat (likely cut and paste or used same template and forgot to delete prior name.

Also, recently noticed a bat in a recent listing that 2 years ago could not be confirmed as game used by the referenced player and was noted in the LOA with no grade.... but now has surfaced with a game used high grade and no mention of concerns previously mentioned in LOA. This bat is legit and the 2nd LOA is correct, I'd be interested in knowing the process and research that went into the correction.

[BirdsOnBat]

I then looked through Malta's book on dating LS bats (A Complete Reference Guide Louisville Slugger Professional Player Bats), and saw exactly why John dated the bat to a 3 year span vs an 11 year span.


I think you answered your own question. Valuing LOAs of any kind to me is a silly and outdated notion in today's world of instant information availability.

[ndevlin]

Here's a good example-- Take a look at this recent Mears listing and read the description...

http://sports.mearsonlineauctions.com/lot-101211.aspx

[Nnunnari]

LOA's will become extinct other than on vintage gamers. Free opinions from many knowledgeable bat collectors will soon outweigh the opinion of two individuals, if they haven't already. A system will be created where a pool of "experts" can grade/evaluate a bat, free of charge.

[memorabiliaunlimited]

LOA's will become extinct other than on vintage gamers. Free opinions from many knowledgeable bat collectors will soon outweigh the opinion of two individuals, if they haven't already. A system will be created where a pool of "experts" can grade/evaluate a bat, free of charge.

i disagree with this. there will always be a need for there to be a letter, or something similar, from one company or individual that is highly regarded in the industry attesting as to whether they believe a bat is authentic. there would be no way to submit a bat to a "pool of experts" to determine authenticity, and in most cases, i personally would not trust anyone to opine on anything when all they have to go off of are photographs. and even then, how would the opinion of a "pool of experts" link to that specific bat (like a letter and hologram do)?

further, there is no way anyone or any company is going to accept bat submissions in order for them to opine on same without there being a fee - there is a cost to do such a thing. to quote the joker (my favorite supervillian), "if youre good at something, never do it for free".

[BirdsOnBat]

i disagree with this. there will always be a need for there to be a letter, or something similar, from one company or individual that is highly regarded in the industry attesting as to whether they believe a bat is authentic.

What are the reasons though? As someone mentioned below, companies make mistakes all the time. When it's going to be your item you own, I don't know about anyone else here, but I could spend many hours (maybe days or a week for high end stuff) looking for photo or style matches for jerseys to make sure every detail matches up with photos, all bat traits match up, etc, whether it's $50 or $5000, depending on how familiar I am with the era or what exemplars I already own. Companies who see countless items just can't spend the same amount of time with YOUR item as you can. You have to trust yourself and photos, shipping records etc.

As another person mentioned there are team specialists here that are great resources as well that never hesitate to help out a fellow collector, ask them for an opinion as well but you have to be the one to live with the item. An LOA from a reputable company to me, is a good first step in my authentication process, but it's certainly not near the end of it.

[GoCrazyFolks76]

At the end of the day, having a LOA makes a bat or jersey easier to sell. The buyer may not have the time or knowledge to do their own research, and may not have the background to know who the experts are and who they should be trusting. Instead ,they see an LOA from PSA or MEARS, and they are satisfied. That's why I don't think these companies are going anywhere.

With that said, it's interesting that the Ruth bat in question (Mears A7.5 grade) went for $27k w/ buyers premium. I wonder what this same bat would have gone for with a PSA GU5 or lower on it.

[danesei@yahoo.com]

Are you serious ?

The last three times I did, yes, he did.

[memorabiliaunlimited]

What are the reasons though? As someone mentioned below, companies make mistakes all the time. When it's going to be your item you own, I don't know about anyone else here, but I could spend many hours (maybe days or a week for high end stuff) looking for photo or style matches for jerseys to make sure every detail matches up with photos, all bat traits match up, etc, whether it's $50 or $5000, depending on how familiar I am with the era or what exemplars I already own. Companies who see countless items just can't spend the same amount of time with YOUR item as you can. You have to trust yourself and photos, shipping records etc.

As another person mentioned there are team specialists here that are great resources as well that never hesitate to help out a fellow collector, ask them for an opinion as well but you have to be the one to live with the item. An LOA from a reputable company to me, is a good first step in my authentication process, but it's certainly not near the end of it.


the reason is because there will always be a need for items to be sold to less educated people. not everyone enters the hobby an expert. a lot of people may like a certain player or certain team and only buy a few items. someone like that would be clueless as to figuring out whether an item is authentic unless there is some sort of documentation accompanying the item. i think everyone is right that you should do as much research as you can on an item before you purchase it, but it is simply not possible for the amateur to have the ability to do so. an LOA from an expert is not the end-all-be-all, but as you said, it is a start (and a good one at that). i also think LOAs from experts are necessary for auction houses - it is a bit self-serving for an auction house to authenticate their own items. having a 3rd party come in should add some legitimacy to the process.

there are great resources around. asking for an opinion here or there, asking for a screenshot, small favors are not a big deal. i have provided screenshots to people looking to photo match items without them even asking. its when you become inundated with requests, which would inevitably happen with any advertised free service, that it becomes to be too much.

[BirdsOnBat]

i also think LOAs from experts are necessary for auction houses - it is a bit self-serving for an auction house to authenticate their own items. having a 3rd party come in should add some legitimacy to the process.


That's a very fair point.

[Nnunnari]

This sums it up here: "the reason is because there will always be a need for items to be sold to less educated people".
Until people stop paying a premium for authenticated/graded bats, auction houses will continue to try and maximize their returns and limit their responsibility of authenticating items by using authenticators.

One of the main problems I see happening is, a lot of collectors venture over to bat collecting from the card collecting world and put an extreme emphasis/value on "10"s. High end cards are becoming insanely expensive so guys are getting priced out of high end collecting or are looking to diversify their collection. These people need to know that a "10" in bat collecting does not hold anywhere near the value of a "10" in card collecting, or shouldn't at least. Non "bat guys" are too lazy to do their own research or have a lack of experience and will default to only collecting the highest quality items as stated by third party authenticators, it tilts the market on certain items or players.

[seanbaseball]

[QUOTE=Nnunnari;398164]This sums it up here: "the reason is because there will always be a need for items to be sold to less educated people".
Until people stop paying a premium for authenticated/graded bats, auction houses will continue to try and maximize their returns and limit their responsibility of authenticating items by using authenticators.

One of the main problems I see happening is, a lot of collectors venture over to bat collecting from the card collecting world and put an extreme emphasis/value on "10"s. High end cards are becoming insanely expensive so guys are getting priced out of high end collecting or are looking to diversify their collection. These people need to know that a "10" in bat collecting does not hold anywhere near the value of a "10" in card collecting, or shouldn't at least. Non "bat guys" are too lazy to do their own research or have a lack of experience and will default to only collecting the highest quality items as stated by third party authenticators, it tilts the market on certain items or players.[/QUOTE

Well said!

[esquiresports]

One of the main problems I see happening is, a lot of collectors venture over to bat collecting from the card collecting world and put an extreme emphasis/value on "10"s. Non "bat guys" ...[who]... have a lack of experience will default to only collecting the highest quality items as stated by third party authenticators, it tilts the market on certain items or players.

Nick, you sadly pretty much summed my inexperienced approach to bats! It's hard for me to break away from the "10" mentality.