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View Full Version : Info Needed Mazzilli '86 Mets Bench Jacket



Swoboda4
05-21-2016, 11:16 PM
Looking for info on this '86 Mazzilli game used bench jacket. The anniversary patch is not original, looks to have been placed over a small remaining small piece of the original patch that was removed for some reason. The removal of the original was mess that left small holes in the jacket sleeve. Has anyone any info on this jacket? Were anniversary patches taken off '86 jackets for re-use in '87? Does anyone have another '86 bench jacket that they can show an image of the front and inside sewing pattern of the anniversary patch? Thanks

metsbats
05-22-2016, 08:04 AM
I doubt that 86 jackets were reused in 87. I can check with John Ruffino who was the assistant equipment manager in the 80's with the Mets to see if he remembers.

Here's photo of Ed Hearn's 86 jacket for reference.

metsbats
05-22-2016, 08:22 AM
Here's a patch on one of my 86 gamers.

The jacket patch look very odd almost like there is another patch under it from the doubling of the edges.

Swoboda4
05-22-2016, 09:20 AM
David, can you take a photo of inside the shoulder sleeve of your Hearn jacket, specifically behind the anniversary patch, showing the sewing pattern? This is what I think I have, a '86 jacket where someone removed the anniversary patch but couldn't remove it completely. So a new patch(not as thin edged as the original ) was applied. There are remnants of different threads inside of the Mazzilli and I want to see if your threads, exposed on the inside sleeve match anything I have for color or pattern. Any help is appreciated as I'm considering carefully exposing what's underneath.

metsbats
05-22-2016, 10:41 AM
Robert, I don't own the Hearn jacket as it was from the cover of one of his Christmas cards. I can ask him if he can take a photo of the inside of the jacket if he has the time.

Swoboda4
05-22-2016, 10:56 AM
I'm sorry I misunderstood. If anyone has any example of the back stitching on an 86 anniversary patch I guess it could help thanks

Doodles
05-26-2016, 06:34 PM
I don't have an example of a 1986 jacket, but do know a lot about the patches. The patch on your jacket is a repro I have seen before...not a very good one. The original did not have orange threads on the edge like almost all patches, but the orange edge was a felt like material. That repro has a felt type edge, but they also put a stitched orange border on top. I think I see another bit of orange felt under the repro patch, which I think is what you are referring to as a small bit of the original. Is that the part that looks to be stitched with the white zig-zag sticthing on the underside? Also, how are the 1 and 3 sewn on? The original patch may have been sewn on in a similar fashion.

It is possible the Mets took the patches off. I was at the Mets Hall of Fame the other day, and they had a "1986 jacket" with a horrible repro patch on it as well. Maybe it is a real 1986 jacket and they felt putting a repro back on was a restoration. Generally though, I always suspected Starter sent the Mets a new shipment of these jackets every year, after embroidering the names on the back, so why take the patches off?

Swoboda4
05-27-2016, 12:33 AM
Doodles, thank you. Yes, there is what appears to be the original, or part of the original patch underneath. And the zig-zag sewing pattern underneath belongs to the underneath patch. I tried to see if the top patch can be carefully removed and it appear to have been heat pressed on after some poor sewing for placement with orange thread? But why the white-yellowish thread on the edge? Was that just an initial stitch for placement?
My Dykstra '86 Playoff home pinstripe jersey has the original patch and aside from it being smaller (as the underneath jacket patch also appears to be) I was more interested in what the underside looked like: it was orange thread. I'll post photos next. Im going to citifield for a couple of the White Sox games and you can be sure I look in the museum.

Swoboda4
05-27-2016, 12:44 AM
The under side of the Dykstra '86 Playoff pinstripe (for sewing comparison).

Swoboda4
05-27-2016, 02:19 AM
Again, what appears to be the original '86 anniversary patch is slightly visible under reproduction patch that for some reason was placed above, possibly heat pressed. Doodles (May I call you "dood"?) mentions that at CitiField there is on display an '86 jacket with possibly the same situation.

Swoboda4
05-27-2016, 02:21 AM
David, thank you for the '86 gamer photo.

Swoboda4
05-27-2016, 07:30 AM
the stitching for the 13 on the shoulder is white, the zig zag on the original patch edge is yellowish.

Doodles
05-27-2016, 05:03 PM
Swoboda,

The Dykstra jersey patch is sewn on in a straight around orange stitch, not the "zig-zag" (is this the official term?) stitch that the original jacket patch used. The jersey patch was probably sewn on by Goodman or the Mets' stitcher. All the jerseys I have seen have had that straight stitch. I am almost positive the jacket's 13 and anniversary patch would have been sewn on by Starter. Looks like they used the same stitching for the 13 as for the patch, which I would expect. I have that same jacket from Starter, not team issued, but bought in 1988. It has the round baseball Met logo patch, no numbers or anniversary patch (I added that patch later myself). It too uses the zig-zag...which not to get too technical, but we must, actually uses two colors of thread somehow...the outside layer which is seen, is orange on mine. This makes sense as the patch edge is orange and you don't want to see the thread. On mine, the thread on the underside is blue...not so important as it would never be seen. When I had a sport shop sew my anniversary patch on years later, they used the same stitching...orange zig-zag on top, blue on underside. Here is my jacket:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5207/5235624325_6123f8e88a_b.jpg

So where do we go from here? If it were me, and I wanted to keep the jacket, I would try to remove the repro patch. You say it is heat pressed...perhaps heating it would loosen the adhesive. This jacket is polyester, so I would not heat it too much, as it may scorch. I would protect the areas around the patch if I did so...and heat from the underside possibly. If you are lucky, you can get that repro off and replace with a vintage real patch...I have an extra laying around somewhere. There are many repros out there, including a vintage, smaller fan club version that often confuses people.

Doodles
05-27-2016, 05:18 PM
BTW, what very well may have happened is someone wanted the original patch to use on perhaps a jersey to make it a 1986 jersey when it wasn't, or perhaps replace a missing 1986 patch on a more valuable player jersey. They then could only find a repro to replace it with.

Doodles
07-08-2016, 10:09 AM
What ever happened with this project?

Swoboda4
07-08-2016, 10:39 AM
Researching the anniversary patch. I need an exact patch ( not neccesarily game used). Will keep original patch remnant.But present patch has the word anniversary in white, which is wrong. Need to remove carefully.

Swoboda4
07-08-2016, 10:48 AM
Patch is in orange not white, sorry. Which is inaccurate

TNTtoys
07-08-2016, 04:24 PM
Robert,

I might have a patch for you. I'll check when I have a chance.

Nick

Swoboda4
07-08-2016, 05:27 PM
Thanks Nick

Doodles
07-09-2016, 07:55 AM
As I said earlier, I have an authentic team issued patch if you want it. The way to tell is the little blue w on the right side bat handle. No repro has it. Also the authentic patch measures 3 1/2 in. top to bottom. The team issued Fan Club patch measures 3".

Swoboda4
07-09-2016, 01:17 PM
Doodles you're on! I forgot. I'll buy it from you. Thank you very much.-Robert

TNTtoys
07-09-2016, 02:45 PM
As I said earlier, I have an authentic team issued patch if you want it. The way to tell is the little blue w on the right side bat handle. No repro has it. Also the authentic patch measures 3 1/2 in. top to bottom. The team issued Fan Club patch measures 3".

Steve,

While no reproductions have contained the "little W", it's worth noting that there were 2 versions of this patch worn on field in 1986, an earlier one and a later one -- the earlier version of this patch did not have the "w" either.

One can safely say that if the patch contains the "w" it is authentic... however, not having it does not guarantee that it is not authentic.

Nick

Doodles
07-09-2016, 08:25 PM
Nick,

I believe you, but I have looked at tons of pictures of this patch and have not noticed a second on field patch without the w. Do you have a photo?

Steve

Doodles
07-09-2016, 08:40 PM
Doodles you're on! I forgot. I'll buy it from you. Thank you very much.-Robert

Robert,

An authentic patch is available on ebay and looks in great shape...item 361478839756. This way I can keep mine!

Steve

Swoboda4
07-09-2016, 09:28 PM
Nick and Steve, thank you very much. Very interesting and let me add this. I looked at the patch on eBay and it does contain the W and priced accordingly but the "25" appears to be wider, or thicker than the example I have on the Dykstra, and on Nick's '86 jersey; where the "25" looks thinner. I'm on the road and can't research properly. Thank you both; I would have no idea about the patch otherwise .

Doodles
07-10-2016, 07:18 AM
Nick and Steve, thank you very much. Very interesting and let me add this. I looked at the patch on eBay and it does contain the W and priced accordingly but the "25" appears to be wider, or thicker than the example I have on the Dykstra, and on Nick's '86 jersey; where the "25" looks thinner. I'm on the road and can't research properly. Thank you both; I would have no idea about the patch otherwise .

Swoboda,

You are very observant. Both my patches, the one on my jacket and the spare I have, exhibit what looks like a wider 25. Some of the buildings look a bit thicker too. I have wrestled with this issue and concluded the wider 25 could be is due to several possibilities:

1) The photos make the 25 look a bit wider than it actually is sometimes. This happened on the first patch I bought too.
2) Both my patches and the one for sale were never used on a jersey. Patches on game used jerseys were laundered with lots of other jerseys with harsh detergents probably every time they were worn on the field. I believe the threads on the top layers shrunk down a bit, and were abraded so that the buildings and 25 look a bit thinner.
3) It is possible that there were several batches made, per Nick's thought. Once the Mets won the World Series, they may have decided to run some more for fans and collectors and they were slightly different.

I have studied my patches and what I believe to be game used patches I have seen in pictures very closely (yes I am a nut). The little w is the same. On the other bat handle, there is a tiny little curl on the bottom of the line in the bat. The longer bridge cables have 3 tiny stitches. The stitches of the baseball all really defined and thick and hit the same things in the same spots. The e and the s in Mets have an extra white outline not usually seen. The outline is a fuzzy material, not thread. There is no repro I have seen that replicates all these tiny details properly.

On the left here is my vintage patch...on the right is an excellent repro I bought in 2011 for the 25th anniversary of 1986...see the differences? Even an excellent repro misses most of the details I mentioned. The authentic one also shows the thicker 25, especially where the 2 meets the orange ball.

TNTtoys
07-13-2016, 10:28 AM
Nick,

I believe you, but I have looked at tons of pictures of this patch and have not noticed a second on field patch without the w. Do you have a photo?

Steve

Steve,

Another collector and I did a thorough analysis of our gamers, and found that the earlier issued 1986 gamers had an original version of the patch which discolored very easily and deteriorated over time. These generally had the greatest use out of all of the 86s. The latter batch had a "corrected" patch that matches those you have described here. I have photos of the jerseys (with some closeups of the patches) at home that I can upload later.

Nick