Increase in people flipping jerseys?

[jake33]

Just curious if anyone else has notice and increase in this trend....
Someone buys a jersey on NFL or MLB auctions and 24 hours later they have it listed on ebay for at least 40% more than what they bought it for.

To me, it seems like I am seeing a lot more of that happening, jus curious if anyone else has noticed an upward trend on that as well, since ebay lets people list whatever item at any price with a make an offer.

In part, I get it because I always say everything I have is always for sale for the right price. Also, it is the owner's right to do whatever they want with the product they own. Just overall seems a little annoying because the game used collecting community is the that big and really most serious collector's check the NFL and MLB auctions searching for the team or player they collect and the majority of all the people that would have wanted that item would have won it at auction anyways.

[CPuente57]

I noticed that on ebay in general...someone won a Kyrie Irving Meigray gamer for I believe 2700 and now the buyer has it up for 5500.

[metsbats]

This certainly was rampant during the 2015 Post season. A lot of Mets game used playoff and world series items were on ebay right after either being purchased directly from the team or off of mlb auctions. However, I 've yet to see someone who brought a $3500 helmet for example get the 21K they are asking for on ebay.

[mad87man]

yeah and its beyond annoying. i get the whole its theirs and they can do what they want with it BS but come on. These people take the fun out of the hobby and makes it not fun anymore. i gotta battle a scalper for it on auctions then if i really want it pay his price? no thanks

[joshmiller0]

I noticed that on ebay in general...someone won a Kyrie Irving Meigray gamer for I believe 2700 and now the buyer has it up for 5500.

Yes, he is a member here... He has done that frequently.. also on nba auctions.. typically he lists things for at least 100% more of what he paid. I have bought a few thousand dollars worth of steiner items that he had.. At the time, the knicks shooting shirts weren't available without purchase of a jersey.. he bought the whole team set and broke it up selling about half to me.. maybe i shouldn've just bought the whole team set.. He was great to deal with though...

[Jim65]

Sometimes I'm grateful for a chance to buy something I missed. There are some items I don't mind overpaying for and as long as the seller is reasonable, we can usually come to some agreement.

[mad87man]

Sometimes I'm grateful for a chance to buy something I missed. There are some items I don't mind overpaying for and as long as the seller is reasonable, we can usually come to some agreement.
I have never missed an item and then seen it appear on eBay. Less than a week later. I always check NFL auctions for new stuff and keep tabs on what i want. If i did miss something though it would be a different story, or if they had the item a while.

[gorilla777]

Many seem to think they're "dealers" nowadays...you could probably start a thread called "Does anybody collect anymore?"

[Oriolesfan29]

I know two examples I've seen recently are the Manny Machado and Carlos Correa game used St Patrick's day jerseys. Somehow the seller got complete pics of the Manny jersey less than 24 hours after it sold, I'm not even sure how that's possible. It is definitely annoying though I agree. The Correa one is listed for $8K and it sold for way less than half that.

[paul457]

I've never understood the thought process behind this movement...

So you were the highest bidder in an auction, meaning you paid the highest price for X item. Then, you think that you're going to list X item in a different auction, days later, and someone is going to pay 10-20-50% more than you did in the previous auction?

Good plan.

[yanks12025]

I've never understood the thought process behind this movement...

So you were the highest bidder in an auction, meaning you paid the highest price for X item. Then, you think that you're going to list X item in a different auction, days later, and someone is going to pay 10-20-50% more than you did in the previous auction?

Good plan.

As I stated in another thread about people complaining about flippers is that NOT every collector sees EVERY auction. So just because an item in one auction sells for XXX amount, that DOESN'T mean that its worth only that price.

So pretty much, if a Ruth game used bat is listed for sale and for some odd reason it sells for only $1,000. Is it only worth $1,000 because thats what it sold for at auction.

[metsbats]

I've never understood the thought process behind this movement...

So you were the highest bidder in an auction, meaning you paid the highest price for X item. Then, you think that you're going to list X item in a different auction, days later, and someone is going to pay 10-20-50% more than you did in the previous auction?

Good plan.



Especially on eBay out of all places.

[memorabiliaunlimited]

I noticed that on ebay in general...someone won a Kyrie Irving Meigray gamer for I believe 2700 and now the buyer has it up for 5500.

that would be me my friend - i believe we have done business together in the past, always a pleasure.

as someone else stated on here, not everyone sees every auction. meigray retails them for about that price. there is simply no way to find his jersey at that price other than in an eBay auction, which always sees rock bottom prices. in no way is an eBay auction end price a market price. i never expect to receive my full asking price, but why sell myself short? it is a full retail price. a high list price leaves more room to negotiate a reasonable price. everything i have listed always has always has a "best offer" option.

also, auction items are the easiest to flip - done quite frequently and has been very successful. once people get over the high list price and start making offers, i am quite reasonable and the items move. i never get stuck with items purchased in auctions - only stuff i buy directly from teams or other people (which i find interesting as well).

the bottom line is, these items are worth what someone is willing to pay for them at any given time. every day is different, different people see items at different times, and teams and players peak at different times. the market is very fluid and its always a gamble.

but have to love this industry :)

[grandeleague]

I know two examples I've seen recently are the Manny Machado and Carlos Correa game used St Patrick's day jerseys. Somehow the seller got complete pics of the Manny jersey less than 24 hours after it sold, I'm not even sure how that's possible. It is definitely annoying though I agree. The Correa one is listed for $8K and it sold for way less than half that.

He will take that Correa to the grave with him before someone pays 8k for a St. Pattys jersey. Most of the ebay jerseys are priced way over a fair value. In many instances if you offer half what it is listed for you are in many cases offering fair retail but not to the "expert" selling it. People can do what they want but i would like to be a fly on the war when many of these clowns are figuring out prices for their jereys.

[grandeleague]

Especially on eBay out of all places.

My personal favorite is the 5000 evan gattis jersey on ebay. Lol. You have got to be joking. If you offered 1k you would be offering 2x what it is worth and yet only 20% of what it is listed for. You simply cannot do anything with a jersey like that. The seller can keep on dreaming and the buyer can keep on dreaming if he thinks he can get it at a decent price.

[grandeleague]

Many seem to think they're "dealers" nowadays...you could probably start a thread called "Does anybody collect anymore?"

Most of the stuff being flipped is "manufactured memorabilia" meaning it was worn or used with the intention winding up on the collecting market. Will be very interesting to see what this stuff is worth a decade or two from now. My team is the braves and braves jerseys used to be scarce. Vintage jerseys and jerseys from the 1990's are relatively scarce now. However they are simply burning through too many sets of jerseys now for these things to be all that collectible in the furture. I dont really care anyway but the real pain is getting them from the team into collectors hands. The team wants 1k for freddie freeman jerseys. So somebody has to pay up to get one but once a freeman jersey enters the hobby good luck getting 750 for one. Fat chance at 1k unless its something really cool or unique. These memorabilia jerseys are not really rare and the teams could care less about supply. They crank them out by the bushel every season. Common braves players going through 30 jerseys a year is nuts. Its probably the same hassle with many other teams nowadays.

[Stanley]

"the bottom line is, these items are worth what someone is willing to pay for them at any given time. every day is different, different people see items at different times, and teams and players peak at different times. the market is very fluid and its always a gamble.

but have to love this industry :)"

This post really gets me.
Why does there have to be these middle men? The guy that justs bids on everything to sell it for double money? Oh,,,, I won it to offer it to guys that didnt see the auction...He's not a collector. He doesn't care about history of the item what so ever. He doesn't even care about the game. He just cares about the dollar.

[lakeerie92]

Teams cranking out jerseys at such a high level is a good thing right now. If you look at game used memorabilia despite what some people want to claim, it is on the rise. Ten years ago, how many teams had game used memorabilia programs? Now all 30 MLB teams have some level of program. It is growing in the other major sports too. The reason there is benefit to teams cranking out so many jerseys of common players right now is because it allows more people to come into the hobby. I would not be here collecting if it wasn't for a Mike Gonzalez Braves Jackie Robinson Day jersey that I ended up losing money on. I don't care that I lost money. I was hooked at that point and as time progresses I focus my efforts. You may be able to buy a lot of jerseys from a player now, but I just focus my efforts on milestone jerseys or items of that nature.
To me when it is an item that I want for my collection there is no such thing as overpaying. Sometimes it is worth paying more than you can get for an item to have it in your collection and to me that is all that matters.

I guess this is all to say that a majority of us started by collecting virtually worthless items at some point and it got us into the hobby. We all have our collection focuses and I have a rule with some items that the time to buy it is when you see it for sale. I have missed out on items that I thought were overpriced that now looking back I wish I had forked out the money. Value is in the eyes of the beholder. If you read this far I give you two gold stars!

[grandeleague]

Teams cranking out jerseys at such a high level is a good thing right now. If you look at game used memorabilia despite what some people want to claim, it is on the rise. Ten years ago, how many teams had game used memorabilia programs? Now all 30 MLB teams have some level of program. It is growing in the other major sports too. The reason there is benefit to teams cranking out so many jerseys of common players right now is because it allows more people to come into the hobby. I would not be here collecting if it wasn't for a Mike Gonzalez Braves Jackie Robinson Day jersey that I ended up losing money on. I don't care that I lost money. I was hooked at that point and as time progresses I focus my efforts. You may be able to buy a lot of jerseys from a player now, but I just focus my efforts on milestone jerseys or items of that nature.
To me when it is an item that I want for my collection there is no such thing as overpaying. Sometimes it is worth paying more than you can get for an item to have it in your collection and to me that is all that matters.

I guess this is all to say that a majority of us started by collecting virtually worthless items at some point and it got us into the hobby. We all have our collection focuses and I have a rule with some items that the time to buy it is when you see it for sale. I have missed out on items that I thought were overpriced that now looking back I wish I had forked out the money. Value is in the eyes of the beholder. If you read this far I give you two gold stars!

Some teams had memorabilia programs in the early 1990's. The braves would sell every regular season jersey and bp jersey in one lot to someone who offered the most and that person in turn would sell them in a full page ad in Sports Collectos digest. You got all the jerseys and one copy of a letter from the braves to go with the jerseys. Dave Miedema would remember those braves bulk sales in sports collectors digest. You had to sell the stars for alot because you had to buy the common players to get them even the bat boy jerseys. Even then, there were only three or four sets so there was a good balance between supply and demand. Not anymore.30 or 40 jerseys for one player in a single season is nuts. Greed has taken over now at least with braves items. The real collectible braves jerseys in this hobby were the ones never meant to be collectible in the first place. The same can be said for alot of different teams. People can do as they wish. This is after all a hobby. If they think their mass produced derrick rose or freddie freeman jerseys are going to be rare and sought after 20 years from now they may quite mistaken.

[TwinLakesPark]

I remember a story like this that began in 2004 and ended in 2008...

I have been preaching for some time now that this market is not sustainable and the bubble will pop, the only questions are when this will happen and how much inflated game used memorabilia will you be holding?

I am a collector at heart but my investment logic tells me that this is going to get worse. You pointed it out yourself Jake, how many people are flipping now? Same story in 2006, how many real estate agents were getting into the biz?

There are some people that are going to get very wealthy, if not already, on this bubble - just be careful you are not left holding the bag when the cards finally come down!

[memorabiliaunlimited]

"the bottom line is, these items are worth what someone is willing to pay for them at any given time. every day is different, different people see items at different times, and teams and players peak at different times. the market is very fluid and its always a gamble.

but have to love this industry :)"

This post really gets me.
Why does there have to be these middle men? The guy that justs bids on everything to sell it for double money? Oh,,,, I won it to offer it to guys that didnt see the auction...He's not a collector. He doesn't care about history of the item what so ever. He doesn't even care about the game. He just cares about the dollar.


you could not be more incorrect. i think its funny that people get so offended by the fact that someone resells an item - you do what you do, and ill do what i do. you have no idea what i have that is not for sale, why i buy and sell, or how i feel about the game. so many times i sell something to someone who just has not been able to find it no matter how hard they looked, and they are incredibly happy to purchase it. im an attorney, this is a side hobby. i started collecting autographs when i was 12, and now i am 28 and it has evolved into a way to make some extra side cash and continue to grow my collection. you cant knock success - this will be my 5th year having a formal business, and it has grown exponentially and been very successful. my inventory started with 60 autographed baseballs (the most valuable only being mantle). it is now what you see today, and i havent added one cent to my business - everything is purchased from profits. if something can be replaced, ill sell it and buy another one. with the amount of items pulled from each player, 90% of the new stuff that comes onto the market is replaceable with something comparable.

would love to answer anyones questions about this stuff - the incredible divide between collector and dealer is fascinating to me, especially when i think i fall somewhere in the middle of that spectrum.

[paul457]

As I stated in another thread about people complaining about flippers is that NOT every collector sees EVERY auction. So just because an item in one auction sells for XXX amount, that DOESN'T mean that its worth only that price.

So pretty much, if a Ruth game used bat is listed for sale and for some odd reason it sells for only $1,000. Is it only worth $1,000 because thats what it sold for at auction.

That's the exception, not the rule. Most people have access to the Internet...

I have no problem with people flipping, if you can make a profit off of it then go for it. Most of the examples I have seen personally are laughable.

[sox83cubs84]

Some teams had memorabilia programs in the early 1990's. The braves would sell every regular season jersey and bp jersey in one lot to someone who offered the most and that person in turn would sell them in a full page ad in Sports Collectos digest. You got all the jerseys and one copy of a letter from the braves to go with the jerseys. Dave Miedema would remember those braves bulk sales in sports collectors digest. You had to sell the stars for alot because you had to buy the common players to get them even the bat boy jerseys. Even then, there were only three or four sets so there was a good balance between supply and demand. Not anymore.30 or 40 jerseys for one player in a single season is nuts. Greed has taken over now at least with braves items. The real collectible braves jerseys in this hobby were the ones never meant to be collectible in the first place. The same can be said for alot of different teams. People can do as they wish. This is after all a hobby. If they think their mass produced derrick rose or freddie freeman jerseys are going to be rare and sought after 20 years from now they may quite mistaken.

You're right...I do remeber the Braves sales. Equipment Manager Bill Acrie used to usually sell them to two area hobbyists, Doak Ewing (now of Rare Sportsfilms fame) and Phil Schafer. They, in turn would offer them to collectors. This, of course, was back in the day when teams routinely sold unneeded GU equipment to various dealers in the hobby. There's very little of that now what with the teams, and even some players, seeing the value and demand of GU items. The current middlemen appear to be downsized versions of what places like Ball Park Heroes, Ball Four Sports, Sports Warehouse, and others were in the 1990s.

Dave Miedema

[sprint23]

I have to laugh when someone claims they "never get stuck with anything they buy from auctions.". I'd like to know the time limit they have in mind. A 2014 Adam Jones helmet comes to mind. It was listed on eBay almost immediately after the MLB auction ended for considerable more, and is still listed over a year and a half later with no change in the asking price. I may call that "stuck with" an item.

I agree people can do what they want. I just fail to see the business savvy or acumen involved in purchasing items on MLB Auctions and trying to resell immediately. I routinely see items sell on MLB auctions for far more than anyone can ever get on eBay. The entire thought process seems backward. When these items are listed for a year + I don't see how this practice can be seen as successful. At some point you need to realize the price is too high and perhaps your business plan is flawed. Yet these same sellers do this repeatedly and just relist over and over again.

I for one don't have the disposable income to just buy this stuff and let it sit for years and years at an outrageous price that no one will pay. Again people are free to do what they want, I just don't see the upside to this practice in the current market environment.

[Juicyfruit66]

I'm pretty new to the hobby and have focused on my old home team the Montreal Expos. Luckily , the franchise died before collecting became such a cash cow for the MLB so all the stuff I buy is actually relatively rare compared to the hundreds of items churned out now by the MLB authenticators. I think some people buying all the hologrammed stuff the MLB rolls out en mass may end up feeling like card collectors felt in the 90s. It just looks like they are "creating" memorabilia instead of things actually being memorabilia. Like the other day I bought a Bryn Smith rookie jersey and you can tell its seen many a game, has a few stories to tell. Can the same be said about the jersey a 2016 star player wire once to steal one base? Food for thought. In the end I collect for the love of my old team and not for profit.

[Juicyfruit66]

I also don't see a problem with a collector going through auctions and seeing a steal of a deal for a team or player he doesn't collect, buying it to flip to buy stuff he DOES collect. I think he'd be a smart guy, smart business .

[joshmiller0]

It is frustrating when you want an item, someone out bids you, and then it's an insane amount of ebay. However, if they're willing to take the risk, it is what it is...I mean someone could end up sitting on a jersey for a long time or taking a significant loss if the player isn't popular anymore or gets traded. It's only worth what someone is willing to pay...I know I've overpaid for a ton of my items like buying the 1st year in brooklyn...but I am keeping it in my collection. What frustrates me more is when people try to pass an item off as game used or issued when it isn't or when someone lists an auction and starts a new ebay account to jack up the price. I see this from sellers when an item sits..then they list it for auction...someone with 0 feedback wins and shortly after it is relisted at the old buy it now price.

[CPuente57]

Me personally, I never buy with the intention to flip, when I list items, it's basically stuff that if the price was right I'd sell, but if I can't get the price I want, I have no problem keeping it in my collection. I never expect the list price (that's why there is a best offer option) but it's just there at a starting point. I usually just look to break even if I can (which I know in the game used market is easier said than done).

[Juicyfruit66]

Flipping to profit can get risky, I'd only do it for something I knew was totally underpriced. My favorite thing to do is sell stuff I don't really need in my collection but bought a few years ago and sell it for around same price to make money for new stuff. My collection kind of regenerates itself, as it grows and evolves I realize what's good and what's not. My game used bat collection was basically paid for by my old Russell and Rawlings jersey collection.

[mr.miracle]

I have to laugh when someone claims they "never get stuck with anything they buy from auctions.". I'd like to know the time limit they have in mind. A 2014 Adam Jones helmet comes to mind. It was listed on eBay almost immediately after the MLB auction ended for considerable more, and is still listed over a year and a half later with no change in the asking price. I may call that "stuck with" an item.

I agree people can do what they want. I just fail to see the business savvy or acumen involved in purchasing items on MLB Auctions and trying to resell immediately. I routinely see items sell on MLB auctions for far more than anyone can ever get on eBay. The entire thought process seems backward. When these items are listed for a year + I don't see how this practice can be seen as successful. At some point you need to realize the price is too high and perhaps your business plan is flawed. Yet these same sellers do this repeatedly and just relist over and over again.

I for one don't have the disposable income to just buy this stuff and let it sit for years and years at an outrageous price that no one will pay. Again people are free to do what they want, I just don't see the upside to this practice in the current market environment.

As a collector who has primarily focused on the Baltimore Orioles for the past 20 plus years, I have intimate 1st hand knowledge of how the Orioles now sell and market their game used compared to as recently as 5 years ago when everything either funneled through Fan Fest unauthenticated or went out the back door. I can honestly say I too am just dumbfounded by some of the insanity that now takes place with attempting to flip items. I get it, supply demand, free market etc. if you can make some money then more power to you. What amazes me is that there is for instance a seller on ebay now from the Baltimore area that regularly acquires a very very heavy supply of Manny Machado game used bats, jersey's, game used balls, batting helmets, etc. I personally have had in the past 2 or 3 years several Machado game used bats and bases, balls etc. that were MLB authenticated, signed, photomatched, etc. that I was selling for literally 1/3rd or less of the price that this seller is charging and I could not move a single one of these items, in 2 or 3 years, just sitting relisting on ebay over and over again. As Sprint mentions above, unless someone has Bill Gates money, how in the world is this sound business practice. The prices that this seller is paying to acquire these items and what he is looking to flip them for is in some cases a 1000% markup or more which is simply beyond insane. Many of the items carry zero authentication he is selling and quite honestly Manny could win the next 5 consecutive AL MVP awards and he would still never see the prices he is asking. I don't know if he has ever sold more than one of these items. We are talking about game used Machado hits that are being purchased for $150.00 and being sold for $5000 or more.

This strategy just makes zero sense on any level. As someone who has worked in various levels of retail for over 25 years, you strive at all cost to move product. If it is dying on your shelves your not making money period.
These folks can mark this stuff up 10,000% if they so choose. They won't ever sell it and it makes zero sense on any level to me but you see this strategy play out time and time again. I am just stunned too that people say they never take a loss utilizing the flip strategy from MLB or NFL auctions direct to ebay. I can honestly say in the past 2 to 4 years I have seen a complete about face probably due to this market saturation as I rarely if ever come close to getting my money back out of anything I sell on ebay. 9 out of 10 times in the past 2 or 3 years I am often taking what amounts to a 20 to 30 or even 40% loss on every single game used item I sell. How others are bucking this trend is beyond me, I would really love to know.

I just don't get how people are spending $1000's on these items and letting them sit on ebay marked up 5 or 10x's and they just sit year after year after year. Especially given the fact that there is so much market volatility that more often than not your items over the long haul on the newer game used from the past 2 - 4 years stand a reasonable chance over the long haul to drastically reduce in value given the sheer over-saturation of the market on all this stuff.

If anyone wants to kindly volunteer some strategies on selling game used on ebay today where you can simply break even on the sale I am all ears. I can get this stuff signed and inscribed with unique HR inscriptions, photomatched to the HR, MLB Auth, JSA Auth, does not matter, it's nearly impossible to come close to breaking even which is why I am pretty much out of the game used business anymore.

[mr.miracle]

I know two examples I've seen recently are the Manny Machado and Carlos Correa game used St Patrick's day jerseys. Somehow the seller got complete pics of the Manny jersey less than 24 hours after it sold, I'm not even sure how that's possible. It is definitely annoying though I agree. The Correa one is listed for $8K and it sold for way less than half that.

Patrick that seller of the Manny St Patty has been buying up Machado game used in the past 10 to 12 months like someone is having a fire sale, the only problem is, they are not. These jerseys are or were still regularly selling off MLB auctions or direct from the team at $2500 to $3000 plus so no discounts there.

How in the world would anybody break even on ebay off a Machado at those price points much less make any money on them it is simply baffling to me.

[mr.miracle]

Most of the stuff being flipped is "manufactured memorabilia" meaning it was worn or used with the intention winding up on the collecting market. Will be very interesting to see what this stuff is worth a decade or two from now. My team is the braves and braves jerseys used to be scarce. Vintage jerseys and jerseys from the 1990's are relatively scarce now. However they are simply burning through too many sets of jerseys now for these things to be all that collectible in the furture. I dont really care anyway but the real pain is getting them from the team into collectors hands. The team wants 1k for freddie freeman jerseys. So somebody has to pay up to get one but once a freeman jersey enters the hobby good luck getting 750 for one. Fat chance at 1k unless its something really cool or unique. These memorabilia jerseys are not really rare and the teams could care less about supply. They crank them out by the bushel every season. Common braves players going through 30 jerseys a year is nuts. Its probably the same hassle with many other teams nowadays.

When we started the game worn program at Camden Yards the plan was to only pull jerseys specifically ordered by a customer in advance or day of game or if something spectacular occurred in the game and limit to around 5 to 7 per player max per year.

Unfortunately we created Frankenstein as the Director of the program completely lost his mind and would not listen to anything Andrew or I suggested once he felt their was money to be made, then why not flood the market year over year.

What you now have is the above mentioned issue. The everyday blue collar fan is priced completely out of this market and this continuous over-saturation will systematically devalue these items over time.

[memorabiliaunlimited]

I have to laugh when someone claims they "never get stuck with anything they buy from auctions.". I'd like to know the time limit they have in mind. A 2014 Adam Jones helmet comes to mind. It was listed on eBay almost immediately after the MLB auction ended for considerable more, and is still listed over a year and a half later with no change in the asking price. I may call that "stuck with" an item.

and there hasnt been another adam jones helmet on the market since. someone will eventually want it, and if not, i have no problem hanging on to it. i dont consider that "stuck" with an item - when it can be kept and displayed beautifully in the meantime. people get so fixed on the list price, when every listing says "price is negotiable". most of the MLB auction stuff moves on the resale. it is quite easy to pick out the items that are too overpriced or oversupplied, and then stay away from those. i have won countless items on MLB auctions that have sold within a few weeks of purchase - MLB auction prices are not the end-all-be-all. the alex guerrero mothers day gear i have, that i would consider being stuck with - i gambled, and will lose on it. it happens in business, but when you are right more than you are wrong, its OK.

[yanks12025]

It is frustrating when you want an item, someone out bids you, and then it's an insane amount of ebay. However, if they're willing to take the risk, it is what it is...I mean someone could end up sitting on a jersey for a long time or taking a significant loss if the player isn't popular anymore or gets traded. It's only worth what someone is willing to pay...I know I've overpaid for a ton of my items like buying the 1st year in brooklyn...but I am keeping it in my collection. What frustrates me more is when people try to pass an item off as game used or issued when it isn't or when someone lists an auction and starts a new ebay account to jack up the price. I see this from sellers when an item sits..then they list it for auction...someone with 0 feedback wins and shortly after it is relisted at the old buy it now price.


So if you want the item the bid more and win it. If not the other person wanted it more b

[Oriolesfan29]

When we started the game worn program at Camden Yards the plan was to only pull jerseys specifically ordered by a customer in advance or day of game or if something spectacular occurred in the game and limit to around 5 to 7 per player max per year.

Unfortunately we created Frankenstein as the Director of the program completely lost his mind and would not listen to anything Andrew or I suggested once he felt their was money to be made, then why not flood the market year over year.

What you now have is the above mentioned issue. The everyday blue collar fan is priced completely out of this market and this continuous over-saturation will systematically devalue these items over time.

You are exactly right on all counts there Brett. I don't buy nearly as much from the Os as I used to because of the Frankenstein you mention. His shady practices (as I've noted in another thread) of quoting higher prices when someone is asking about a specific item on the phone or email, even though it was in the store for a lower price all season, and the fact that he has gone kinda crazy with the pricing in there even though the supply is much higher thanever before have all turned me off. Given that it takes them forever to move anything is a testament to this. Whenever you go in the store its basically the same stuff almost every game. Its ashame, I still love the hobby, but its getting more and more frustrating to try and deal with the source of the items. I am with you though, I really cant see how a lot of money is to be made flipping things won on MLB auctions, unless you luck out and get a player who is still a relative unknown and then they explode on the scene.

[mr.miracle]

You are exactly right on all counts there Brett. I don't buy nearly as much from the Os as I used to because of the Frankenstein you mention. His shady practices (as I've noted in another thread) of quoting higher prices when someone is asking about a specific item on the phone or email, even though it was in the store for a lower price all season, and the fact that he has gone kinda crazy with the pricing in there even though the supply is much higher thanever before have all turned me off. Given that it takes them forever to move anything is a testament to this. Whenever you go in the store its basically the same stuff almost every game. Its ashame, I still love the hobby, but its getting more and more frustrating to try and deal with the source of the items. I am with you though, I really cant see how a lot of money is to be made flipping things won on MLB auctions, unless you luck out and get a player who is still a relative unknown and then they explode on the scene.

When Andrew and I provided the "Powers That Be" with our opinions and expertise if you will, regarding the whole game used market, pricing and basically how to start the program from scratch, we thought the end product would be drastically different then it ended up being. Andrew has been doing this forever, he has forgotten more about this business than most will ever know. "The Powers That Be" that work for the team had zero experience doing any of this, none, zilch, nada. We laid out a roadmap and they took it and ran and it is now what you see today. It was extremely frustrating hearing fans blame Andrew or Todd or myself as we were shot down on pricing in most cases and had to follow what we were given. Even the whole flood the market strategy was beyond frustrating when we were originally told and discussed pulling a select number of jersey's per player per season period and that certainly did not happen.

It is frustrating for you and many others. Believe me, the program as originally laid out was to give the loyal fans of Baltimore true access to the game used in a reasonably affordable fashion without flooding the market. What it shifted to and became was a whole other entity.

I certainly be no means claim to be an expert on game used anything, but I have done this long enough to know that you need to provide fair, truthful and transparent business practices based on honesty and treating the customers right. Andrew, Todd and I developed a very loyal customer base that we enjoyed working with during our tenure in Baltimore. I am sorry to hear that your having all this difficulty now, I have heard from a number of our loyal customers that they have had similar issues sadly.

[grandeleague]

When we started the game worn program at Camden Yards the plan was to only pull jerseys specifically ordered by a customer in advance or day of game or if something spectacular occurred in the game and limit to around 5 to 7 per player max per year.

Unfortunately we created Frankenstein as the Director of the program completely lost his mind and would not listen to anything Andrew or I suggested once he felt their was money to be made, then why not flood the market year over year.

What you now have is the above mentioned issue. The everyday blue collar fan is priced completely out of this market and this continuous over-saturation will systematically devalue these items over time.

Exactly. Greed has run its course and supply outsrips demand by a long shot. People buy these jerseys and they are worth half or less of what it costs to get them. Who cares most will say. The poor sap who cant get 600 for a jersey he paid a grand for will probably care. If you look at the braves jersey list you will find instances of them pulling three jerseys during the course of a 3 game homestand. Some braves jerseys of recent vintage have set numbers over 15. That is sheer madness if these things are ever supposed to be collectible. When the teams started controlling jerseys instead of selling to someone in bulk who in turn sold to the hobby is when the madness started.

[grandeleague]

As a collector who has primarily focused on the Baltimore Orioles for the past 20 plus years, I have intimate 1st hand knowledge of how the Orioles now sell and market their game used compared to as recently as 5 years ago when everything either funneled through Fan Fest unauthenticated or went out the back door. I can honestly say I too am just dumbfounded by some of the insanity that now takes place with attempting to flip items. I get it, supply demand, free market etc. if you can make some money then more power to you. What amazes me is that there is for instance a seller on ebay now from the Baltimore area that regularly acquires a very very heavy supply of Manny Machado game used bats, jersey's, game used balls, batting helmets, etc. I personally have had in the past 2 or 3 years several Machado game used bats and bases, balls etc. that were MLB authenticated, signed, photomatched, etc. that I was selling for literally 1/3rd or less of the price that this seller is charging and I could not move a single one of these items, in 2 or 3 years, just sitting relisting on ebay over and over again. As Sprint mentions above, unless someone has Bill Gates money, how in the world is this sound business practice. The prices that this seller is paying to acquire these items and what he is looking to flip them for is in some cases a 1000% markup or more which is simply beyond insane. Many of the items carry zero authentication he is selling and quite honestly Manny could win the next 5 consecutive AL MVP awards and he would still never see the prices he is asking. I don't know if he has ever sold more than one of these items. We are talking about game used Machado hits that are being purchased for $150.00 and being sold for $5000 or more.

This strategy just makes zero sense on any level. As someone who has worked in various levels of retail for over 25 years, you strive at all cost to move product. If it is dying on your shelves your not making money period.
These folks can mark this stuff up 10,000% if they so choose. They won't ever sell it and it makes zero sense on any level to me but you see this strategy play out time and time again. I am just stunned too that people say they never take a loss utilizing the flip strategy from MLB or NFL auctions direct to ebay. I can honestly say in the past 2 to 4 years I have seen a complete about face probably due to this market saturation as I rarely if ever come close to getting my money back out of anything I sell on ebay. 9 out of 10 times in the past 2 or 3 years I am often taking what amounts to a 20 to 30 or even 40% loss on every single game used item I sell. How others are bucking this trend is beyond me, I would really love to know.

I just don't get how people are spending $1000's on these items and letting them sit on ebay marked up 5 or 10x's and they just sit year after year after year. Especially given the fact that there is so much market volatility that more often than not your items over the long haul on the newer game used from the past 2 - 4 years stand a reasonable chance over the long haul to drastically reduce in value given the sheer over-saturation of the market on all this stuff.

If anyone wants to kindly volunteer some strategies on selling game used on ebay today where you can simply break even on the sale I am all ears. I can get this stuff signed and inscribed with unique HR inscriptions, photomatched to the HR, MLB Auth, JSA Auth, does not matter, it's nearly impossible to come close to breaking even which is why I am pretty much out of the game used business anymore.
It appears most jersey flipping is done with a current modern player. Its all about hype. Dude just scored 50 pts in a game. Old boy is hitting .450 to start the year. Once the player is retired or out of the limelight scalping becomes next to impossible because the scalping has moved on to new players. Its all about hype. The only things that change are the players and parties involved. Notice the like of true ebay auctions anymore. Most ebay sellers are running museums at most of the listed prices.

[Juicyfruit66]

Haha museums! So true

[grandeleague]

I know two examples I've seen recently are the Manny Machado and Carlos Correa game used St Patrick's day jerseys. Somehow the seller got complete pics of the Manny jersey less than 24 hours after it sold, I'm not even sure how that's possible. It is definitely annoying though I agree. The Correa one is listed for $8K and it sold for way less than half that.

Have the orioles mass produced and flooded the market with adam jones and chris davis jerseys? What did they charge for them when the team originally sold them?

[sprint23]

When the program started with the Orioles the team was only going to pull jerseys requested and paid for by customers during specific games. Jones first jersey (which I believe I owned at one time) was $1,000. Then Davis got on his streak and the Manny hype began. Their jerseys went to $1,500... then $2,000 and beyond. At one point they sold a Davis jersey for $5,000.

They (the team) also began pulling jerseys, bases, etc for any and all accomplishments (ie. A 3-hit game, a HR, etc.). They also found the avenue of MLB Auctions to use to sell these items. Soon the store in the stadium was being given less and less access to stuff so it could go to the auction site. At first this was successful for the team but as supply increased and demand increased soon Davis and Jones jerseys would sit on the site for months and months at a time without sale because the team imposed reserve was too high for true market value. Rather than lower the reserve (or get rid of it altogether) they would just relist and relist.

So now these $1,500 or $2,500 or $5,000 Davis jerseys are currently selling in the $600-$800 range after having more money put into them to have signed and inscribed. While I have not been to the store recently (now under Orioles management) it sounds as if not much has changed.

All this is why this "business" of flipping jerseys (at least in the case of the Orioles') is confusing to me. The team asks top dollar and usually more than true market value. My observations after watching these closely for the past several years are that for some reason (maybe because it comes directly from team and not a middle man) MLB Auctions command a much higher premium than they can ever come close to on eBay. Yet I see sellers continue to attempt this and just sit on items for years. Do as you wish but I fail to see the business savvy in this tactic.

As was mentioned, eBay is looking more and more like a museum of show and tell "look what I got" than an actual marketplace for these types of items.

[grandeleague]

When the program started with the Orioles the team was only going to pull jerseys requested and paid for by customers during specific games. Jones first jersey (which I believe I owned at one time) was $1,000. Then Davis got on his streak and the Manny hype began. Their jerseys went to $1,500... then $2,000 and beyond. At one point they sold a Davis jersey for $5,000.

They (the team) also began pulling jerseys, bases, etc for any and all accomplishments (ie. A 3-hit game, a HR, etc.). They also found the avenue of MLB Auctions to use to sell these items. Soon the store in the stadium was being given less and less access to stuff so it could go to the auction site. At first this was successful for the team but as supply increased and demand increased soon Davis and Jones jerseys would sit on the site for months and months at a time without sale because the team imposed reserve was too high for true market value. Rather than lower the reserve (or get rid of it altogether) they would just relist and relist.

So now these $1,500 or $2,500 or $5,000 Davis jerseys are currently selling in the $600-$800 range after having more money put into them to have signed and inscribed. While I have not been to the store recently (now under Orioles management) it sounds as if not much has changed.

All this is why this "business" of flipping jerseys (at least in the case of the Orioles') is confusing to me. The team asks top dollar and usually more than true market value. My observations after watching these closely for the past several years are that for some reason (maybe because it comes directly from team and not a middle man) MLB Auctions command a much higher premium than they can ever come close to on eBay. Yet I see sellers continue to attempt this and just sit on items for years. Do as you wish but I fail to see the business savvy in this tactic.

As was mentioned, eBay is looking more and more like a museum of show and tell "look what I got" than an actual marketplace for these types of items.

So is it fair to say the davis jerseys on ebay are less than the orioles sold them for but more than what a fair price for one is? Your report on the orioles sounds very similar to my favorite team.

[sprint23]

I'm not sure I ever saw one in the store for less than $1,000 and that was in 2014 when he was not having a stellar year. That is unsigned. The ones that ACTUALLY sell seem to be going for far less than that on eBay even with signatures and inscriptions added.

[Samets]

My stance is not to feed the flipper unless he's taking a loss.

They may call it whatever they want but at the end of the day they are looking for that sucker "to help"

[yanks12025]

My stance is not to feed the flipper unless he's taking a loss.

They may call it whatever they want but at the end of the day they are looking for that sucker "to help"

You people are so clueless.

So you have never sold anything that you bought? I highly doubt that b

[memorabiliaunlimited]

When the program started with the Orioles the team was only going to pull jerseys requested and paid for by customers during specific games. Jones first jersey (which I believe I owned at one time) was $1,000. Then Davis got on his streak and the Manny hype began. Their jerseys went to $1,500... then $2,000 and beyond. At one point they sold a Davis jersey for $5,000.

They (the team) also began pulling jerseys, bases, etc for any and all accomplishments (ie. A 3-hit game, a HR, etc.). They also found the avenue of MLB Auctions to use to sell these items. Soon the store in the stadium was being given less and less access to stuff so it could go to the auction site. At first this was successful for the team but as supply increased and demand increased soon Davis and Jones jerseys would sit on the site for months and months at a time without sale because the team imposed reserve was too high for true market value. Rather than lower the reserve (or get rid of it altogether) they would just relist and relist.

So now these $1,500 or $2,500 or $5,000 Davis jerseys are currently selling in the $600-$800 range after having more money put into them to have signed and inscribed. While I have not been to the store recently (now under Orioles management) it sounds as if not much has changed.

All this is why this "business" of flipping jerseys (at least in the case of the Orioles') is confusing to me. The team asks top dollar and usually more than true market value. My observations after watching these closely for the past several years are that for some reason (maybe because it comes directly from team and not a middle man) MLB Auctions command a much higher premium than they can ever come close to on eBay. Yet I see sellers continue to attempt this and just sit on items for years. Do as you wish but I fail to see the business savvy in this tactic.

As was mentioned, eBay is looking more and more like a museum of show and tell "look what I got" than an actual marketplace for these types of items.

i think a fair way to summarize whether buying items off MLB auctions to resell is a good idea is as follows:

if you can go onto MLB auctions and see an item, or a similar item (for example, an chris davis home HR jersey or an ALT HR jersey) consistently being available, then chances are, it isnt a good item to purchase an resell because there is ALWAYS one available, and possibly for a cheaper price. but, if they are rarer items (batting helmets because so few are used during the year), or items from a team that doesnt pull tons of jerseys (jose abreu jersey on the white sox comes to mind), then there is more of a chance to make a profit on that item because the buyer has no where else to go to get one. in the end, most stuff will still eventually sell - very coincidentally i was able to sell my adam jones HR jersey on ebay just last night for a profit, purchased off MLB auctions.

teams like the orioles, yankees (steiner), braves, mets pull SO MANY JERSEYS that it floods the market - probably not the best items to buy and try and resell. but jerseys from teams like the dodgers, angels, white sox, nationals, that havent flooded the market with their items - there is a better chance for there to be room on a resale. that said, there is also the chance that that item sells for more than market value on MLB auctions because there are not many of them and all bidders try and land it at once. it is always a risk, but a calculated one if you are familiar with the market.

[Samets]

You people are so clueless.

So you have never sold anything that you bought? I highly doubt that b

How are we "people" clueless?

Go ahead and tell me how the flipper makes the world a better place by allowing a wider audience to buy something...

[Oriolesfan29]

You people are so clueless.

So you have never sold anything that you bought? I highly doubt that b

I think you are missing the point. We all have sold things we have bought, I know I have. I generally have a rule that I will not buy anything I don't think I can break even on down the road if I chose to sell it, unless for special occasions such as a sentimental piece or a white whale piece. This rule has usually served me well as I have sold many of my items either at or above cost when that time came.

I think the point of this thread is more to the person who buys strictly to flip at insane money and how that strategy typically doesn't work, or could be seen as taking advantage of someone. As has been documented most of these items sit on the Museum of eBay never, or rarely, to be sold.

I have personally found this thread to be very insightful, especially hearing from collectors of different teams. I unfortunately am stuck with the Os game used department if I want something for the most part, which has increasingly been more difficult since the end of 2014.

In summary I don't have a problem with someone trying to make a buck, its just interesting that people are taking the avenues that they are to flip these jerseys. The encouraging thing to me is I think the buyers out there are more informed than ever which is why there aren't too many people paying the insane, above MLB auctions, prices on things. I know I thoroughly research most of my buys and am constantly looking at auction sites and online sources to get a feel for what things are worth. I too am of the opinion that this bubble will burst at some point, and hopefully I am not holding too many pieces that I will take a huge hit on.

[grandeleague]

You people are so clueless.

So you have never sold anything that you bought? I highly doubt that b

Clueless? Some of the people who responded in this thread have forgotten more about their team's game used material than most people will ever know. Very few people can recite at the drop of a dime an accurate and informative history of a teams game used material.

[Thinking]

I agree the Orioles are ridiculous with their MLB online auctions. Always a reserve that is higher than true worth of the item.

Not all teams are like that -- thankfully.

Only Orioles items I have ever been able to buy was from Brett (Adam Jones auto'd HR bat).

I doubt I will ever buy directly from the O's.

[sportscrazy13]

I want to chime in on the Orioles program topic. I own a Machado HR jersey, his 2013 home helmet, a single, double, triple, and HR ball. All was purchased back when Andrew and Brett ran the Orioles game used stuff. They were both a pleasure to deal with and were great with the pricing.

I don't bother anymore sense the new O's program wants an arm and a leg for everything they have. I tried bidding on some Machado stuff last year on mlb auctions, but it seemed like there was some shill bidding going on.