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View Full Version : Game Used Bats/MLB Authentication,Ect!



jbean023
03-01-2016, 07:05 AM
I thought I would share a little bit of information with collectors of my experience over the last week.

First off, those that purchase items like everyone says do your homework on anything you buy. The MLB holo helps with that but also makes some not interested in the history of their item, they just want to make sure it was used which is great. Ive been consolidating my collection over the last few months and heading in certain directions to try to help with space and displays.

Next, don't be discouraged by the mlb authenticated "issued" items, but yes do your homework. Some items will show no use and some will show a ton of use. I decided to photomatch some of my bats over the last week and I have 4 issued photomatched hr bats and 1 was a players first playoff hit and hr bat that was authenticated as issued 3 days after the bat cracked. With helmets the majority are going to authenticated as issued since most get authenticated after the game. An "issued" bat could of been used by a different player, cracked in batting practice(but possibly used the week prior), the authenticator just didn't see the bat crack, or many other possibilities. With jerseys its a little tougher because the jersey could just be issued with no use and jerseys are harder to photomatch. Some teams have better authenticators than others as well, as a Cubs collector the Chicago Cubs has by far one of the worst authenticating programs in baseball. As many of you can see there is a ton of jerseys/bats on ebay and hitting auctions that are authenticated as issued with a ton of use, but the question is when on the jerseys because most are authenticated as seasons end so you cant look the week before to match thread pulls, pinstripes, ect. This has made me hesitant on buying Cubs items from their historic season last year which that shouldn't I should just do more homework.

I'll give you a great example, after the playoffs the Cubs listed a bunch of bats with one being a Jorge Soler "issued" NLCS game 3 bat. Another collector did his homework on this bat which was used for Soler's 1st playoff hit and 2 HRs, one of the HRs being from the Cubs record breaking 6 HRs in NLDS Game 3, the bat cracked NLDS Game 4 and was authenticated as "issued" NLCS Game 3. The bat sold for $680, if the bat was authenticated as game used NLDS Game 4 I see this bat easily reaching 1K. I also occasionly see teams listing authenticated "issued" items as used, I'm not sure how they can get away with that. Now with mlb blacking out the holo on mlb auctions, they are just going overboard. MLB authenticators just shouldn't be someone involved with law off the streets, these employees should be people that are interested in preserving baseball history and every team should have the system down by now. In the past week I have found between 5-10 mlb holo mistakes whether its player, inning, or even game. If MLB stands behind their holo so much this should be a flawless program, I understand humans make mistakes but over the years Ive found over atleast 100 mistakes. If I messed up that much at my job I would of been gone after number 2 or 3, its not like baseball is a fast paced game and Ive seen at games teams have multiple authenticators at each game. I wouldn't be so irritated with this if after showing mlb video evidence to have to holo changed it wasn't like asking them for a million dollar check. I have heard a rumor that all teams should be scanning the barcode on jerseys this season for every game the jersey is worn which will be a huge help with jerseys. Don't get me wrong I love collecting but don't tell me that I'm buying a Mike Trout game used bat because the holo says so then the video evidence shows another player breaking the bat(just an example). Now days you pay for the hologram so mlb should be doing everything they can to make this system perfect, even if that means putting someone from mlb right behind an authenticator for assistance. Okay onto the next topic, finding so many mlb mistakes just starts to irritate you after awhile.

After collecting bats for 15 years you think I would have noticed something like this but the issue has never popped up until this week. Whenver I'm matching bats the majority of the time when I'm watching video of the game before the same bat is used at some point in the game, but that wasn't the case. I'm not sure what the mark is called but I'm going to call it a factory mark for the discussion. On blonde bats its usually just a permanent mark which are obviously in different locations making a different permanent mark. On dark bats a shape is usually cut out, circle, diamond, rectangle,ect with a permanent mark. Well I had always believed that a player using the same brand bats would have the same location of cutout but different marks. I always photomatch the bats themselves but never worry about the "factory mark" but that's not the case. When you lay a bunch of bats, same brand,style, color out of the same player this is very easy to see and the 2 bats that made me notice this both were diamond shape cutouts old hickorys with a mark but one was on the opposite side of the bat. This is something that I should of noticed years ago but I usually just photomatch the barrel, pine tar, ect and now Ive found a new "mark" that you can photomatch to.

Enough of the book, just thought I would share my week of photomatching expierence.

arott23
03-01-2016, 02:01 PM
This is great information. I too have noticed an issue with the holograms. I have two bats, both of which I have photomatched as being used in a game, have a "game issued" tag on them from 2013. One was used in 2013 and broken in 2013. The other bat bat wasn't even used in 2013. It was used the previous year when the player was with a different team and had a different number.

TBM
03-01-2016, 10:23 PM
The main problem with the difference between MLB authenticated as issued or game used is that an Authenticator must see the item being used by the player. If they do not see it being used by the player or comming directly from the player to Authenticator then it must be authenticated as issued. I have not problem what so ever with items being authenticated as issued. This is a major part of the accuracy of the program. I'm very happy that they authenticate items as issued in these circumstances. I have several jerseys that are authenticated as issued that show a great deal of use. I have photomatched them to several games through out regular and post season. To me a photomatch is the only guarantee or authentication that is 100% fool proof. If it is not matched then it was not used. If it is unphotomatchable then can any authentication or guarantee be 100% trusted?

Yes people make mistakes and just because you have found 100 errors does not mean that the system sucks, it means there is a potential for error happening. What was the over all sample size of those 100 errors? I'm guessing tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of items to have 100 errors. That is less than 1% error rate, which is very acceptable. The program is evolving and getting better all the time. If you look at the earliest part of the system they did not even include player names, innings or much of anything else but teams vs. team. With every bit of information they add to the authentication data, the more chance of error there is. I'm guessing that overall thee is a very small amount of errors that happen. I have never seen one in my collection of over 100 items. Even with the errors this is the best system of anything out there. I would trust an MLB hologram 100% more than any other company out there. Nothing even comes close.

jbean023
03-02-2016, 02:12 AM
The main problem with the difference between MLB authenticated as issued or game used is that an Authenticator must see the item being used by the player. If they do not see it being used by the player or comming directly from the player to Authenticator then it must be authenticated as issued. I have not problem what so ever with items being authenticated as issued. This is a major part of the accuracy of the program. I'm very happy that they authenticate items as issued in these circumstances. I have several jerseys that are authenticated as issued that show a great deal of use. I have photomatched them to several games through out regular and post season. To me a photomatch is the only guarantee or authentication that is 100% fool proof. If it is not matched then it was not used. If it is unphotomatchable then can any authentication or guarantee be 100% trusted?

Yes people make mistakes and just because you have found 100 errors does not mean that the system sucks, it means there is a potential for error happening. What was the over all sample size of those 100 errors? I'm guessing tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of items to have 100 errors. That is less than 1% error rate, which is very acceptable. The program is evolving and getting better all the time. If you look at the earliest part of the system they did not even include player names, innings or much of anything else but teams vs. team. With every bit of information they add to the authentication data, the more chance of error there is. I'm guessing that overall thee is a very small amount of errors that happen. I have never seen one in my collection of over 100 items. Even with the errors this is the best system of anything out there. I would trust an MLB hologram 100% more than any other company out there. Nothing even comes close.

I didn't make this post to have a debate on the mlb hologram but I will give my opinion on the discussion. First off if an item is used in my opinion there should never be an authenticated jersey "issued" that shows use. Yes for collectors a "issued" jersey is cheaper and all that but with this kind of program that should not happen in my opinion. I like to collect items from games I was at and do a pretty good job at it so if jerseys,bats,balls,bases,ect are authenticated correctly this wouldn't be an issue. If Player A does not have an at bat in the seventh inning of a game then Player A should not have a "game used" broken bat in the 7th. Those are mistakes that should not happen. At then end of every game its not that difficult to check out a boxscore. I would bet money that every single game an mlb holo has some sort of issue, that's unacceptable. I never said the system sucks, the system just needs upgrades and its heading in the right direction. Like I said with the jerseys getting scanned this season is a huge improvement and heading in the right direction. The mlb authentication program could be 100% flawless that's the thing and this will pretty much do that with jerseys if used correctly. Maybe a player switching jerseys during a game, getting injured,ect but mlb has been on top of that the times that I have seen it happen.

Most companies(Fanatics,Steiner,ect) rely on MLB so when MLB make mistakes these companies look bad when they are taking the word of an authenticator or someone within the equipment room that's supposed to be trusted, that why I always say do your homework but now days you're paying for an mlb hologram so in my opinion that should be correct. And no sir MLB is not the best around, Meigray has a pretty much flawless authentication system. I have found 0 errors with them, just about every basketball and hockey jersey will tell you every game the jersey was worn in and this has been the case for a few years. I thank you for your opinion and just wanted to share mine.

sportsnbikes
03-08-2016, 12:25 PM
I don't mind the lack of consistency in the program. If it weren't for that, I wouldn't have ended up with 3 2015 Game Used World Series bats and a Game Used ALDS/ALCS bat for less than 900 bucks.

As a person who is child support poor, on a lower budget, I kind of like trying to find the diamond in the rough. It's the thrill of the chase.

And the bat mark you speak of is the slope test.