PDA

View Full Version : Boggs Knob Numbers, A View On Authentication



soxbats
01-10-2016, 08:42 PM
Boggs Knob Numbers, A View On Authentication Part 1 of 7

So I have been a been a avid reader and sometimes poster on this forum for a number of years, joining in its first iteration as game used forum. I have been collecting for over 25 years, have handled more than a thousand Red Sox bats, and looked at probably hundreds of more in auctions and online. At the time I started, there was no such thing as photo matching or video matching and of course no MLB authentication.

I have learned a tremendous amount from those of you who post on the site, and have lurched into the 21st century. I now screen shot from MLB HD and scour Getty images. But I also very much enjoy the more traditional discussions of authentication that revolve around player use characteristics. Tim's expert posts have inspired me to write up some Boggs knob numbering analysis that I have been playing with for a few years, so please allow a moment of indulgence.

Recently, I have read posts that discuss "players handwriting" reflected on the numbers on the knobs, and some limited suggestion that bats without knob numbers written a certain way were "fake" or "fraudulent." Player characteristics are a vital part of authentication, especially for the very valuable high end bat. And I might not buy a bat that does not have the typical player characteristics, but that does not necessarily mean the bat is fake or fraudulent. Further, the modern bat faker is likely bright enough to research player characteristics, but that is a story for a different day (Mike Specht's discussion of the fake Bench bicentennial bat for example).

Back to Boggs. Much has been written and discussed about his habits and the way that numbers were written on the knobs of his bats. A review of Getty is replete with pictures that show his typical Red Sox knob numbering:



Picture 1 common knob

soxbats
01-10-2016, 08:46 PM
Boggs Knob Numbers, A View On Authentication Part 2 of 7

This has led some people to conclude that Boggs sat in his locker and numbered his bats. The conversation often to discussions of "Boggs' handwriting." I will concede that I have no special insight into what he actually did while a Red Sox, I was not in the locker room, and he could have been the one who wrote the numbers. However, I think that is unlikely. As evidence I offer a group of numbers written on the knobs of several Red Sox bats, tell me which ones are Boggs written 2's.

soxbats
01-10-2016, 08:51 PM
Boggs Knob Numbers, A View On Authentication Part 3 of 7

Answer is None, as you probably guessed, but they look quite close to the Boggs handwriting and I could give you dozens more examples.

A review of Boggs online images also reveals tons of images with the more common Boggs numbering, but also several instances of knob numbers that are not the typical numbering style. And this is approximately 100 at bats of his thousands.

soxbats
01-10-2016, 08:53 PM
Boggs Knob Image

soxbats
01-10-2016, 08:55 PM
Boggs Knob Image 3

soxbats
01-10-2016, 08:58 PM
Boggs Knob Numbers, A View On Authentication Part 4 of 7

Even PSA has apparently concluded that the knob numbering is not the be all and end all of a Boggs gamer, repeatedly giving Boggs bats with non-traditional numbers some of the highest possible grades.

soxbats
01-10-2016, 09:00 PM
PSA Image 2

soxbats
01-10-2016, 09:01 PM
PSA Image 3

soxbats
01-10-2016, 09:03 PM
Boggs Knob Numbers, A View On Authentication Part 5 of 7

Even bats that have one style of numbering on the knob, have been found to have a different style of numbering on the barrel.

soxbats
01-10-2016, 09:06 PM
Boggs Knob Numbers, A View On Authentication Part 6 of 7

A recent dealer acquisition of Boggs bats sealed this for me, or unsealed it as the case may be. It was a set of early 90s Boggs Red Sox bats, DIRECTLY FROM BOGGS, autographed as "game used" by Boggs, and with solid Boggs characteristics. However, the knobs reflect no less than three different numbering styles

soxbats
01-10-2016, 09:06 PM
Boggs Knob Numbers, A View On Authentication Part 7 of 7

The reality is that bats come into the clubhouse and are shipped and handled in many ways. Could they have been shipped with other bats for spring training and numbered before Boggs got to Fenway or Winter Haven? Possibly. Could they have been mixed and brought on the road necessitating a clubbie to number up the knobs? There is a chance. So what is my point here? Bat authentication by player characteristic (particularly the absence of a player characteristic) is an art and not a science. To be clear, there are many bats I have passed on because they lacked player characteristics, and if I were shopping for a Boggs, the more common number would be part of my analysis of fair value, but I am always cautious before a calling out a bat as fake or fraudulent for lacking those characteristics. Good luck with your collecting!

metsbats
01-10-2016, 10:14 PM
Soxbats,

This is a great write up! I would suggest to our Admin we move it to the experts section and see what happens.

David

soxbats
01-15-2016, 11:28 PM
Thanks David. I think the expert thread is a great add to the board. I tried to post a few messages in there but they apparently are not posted without Mod approval.

ndevlin
01-16-2016, 10:25 AM
Thanks David. I think the expert thread is a great add to the board. I tried to post a few messages in there but they apparently are not posted without Mod approval.

I posted something in the experts corner about 2 weeks ago and it still hasn't been approved yet.

If you guys need some additional help, someone specifically to approve posts, I will gladly help out.