Ridddle me this Metfan...

[Swoboda4]

Hologram game used Sept 30,2015. Answers to follow...

[Swoboda4]

The blue alternate away style jersey (was collected and hologrammed 9/30/15 after playing Phila.)was never used by the Mets in the 2015 postseason against the Dodgers or the Cubs, but was given a patch just in case it was to be used. Murphy hit his 14th homer of the season with this jersey and Granderson collected two hits one being a double.

[truvalue123]

Swoboda, are you now the proud owner of these jerseys??

[Swoboda4]

Yes, a little Christmas present(s) from the family. A few thoughts though, if the Mets had used this set, say for game 2 in L.A., would they have given these jerseys it's second hologram? Also, MLB who changes bases every three innings, why wouldn't you at least use different jerseys every game?(It appears the Mets used the same alternate gray set jerseys for all away games in the NLDS.)

[sctizzle]

Most likely these were only marked with invisible ink and hologramed after the season was ended. Teams have the authenticators mark items to be able to classify as game used and then at a later date they re-authenticate and hologram. This is done by many teams to help prevent items being authenticated simply as issued--this is why you can often times match an item to a date after the hologram date.

[Swoboda4]

Thank you my sctizzle. Another piece of the puzzle revealed. Now, is there the possibility that a jersey could have been used prior to authentication date?

[sctizzle]

Definitely--unless the Mets wear a new set every time they wear that style there is a good chance it was used prior to that game. Not all teams do it this way as many teams bring in their authenticators to pull jerseys after a certain game but others have them marked to continue to be used but they arrange with the authenticators to at least be able to authenticate a certain set so they are at least seen as game used and then the authenticators sit down whenever the set is pulled again and look for their markings to verify when it was authenticated and used. This is why some teams you'll see pictures with hundreds of jerseys being authenticated and all are marked as used and not issued. I don't know how the authenticators mark it or with what, other than they do and they know what they're looking for at a later date.

I'm sure this has led to confusion with a jersey being unwashed and not matching the authentication date if it turned out to be worn earlier and marked and reused and not being authenticated again to the new date. I have seen jerseys with multiple dates as the authentication date but not always.

[Swoboda4]

So this photo, taken after game 1 of the 2015 NLCS, I believe shows the MLB Authenticator scanning the bar code on the bottom label of the jersey. So you can launder the jersey to your hearts content and it's in the database as game used to the noted date; as good as your car being scanned for a parking ticket. So like you say , you can use the jersey for 5 games straight and one hologram should be capable of detailing more than one day of game use.

[Swoboda4]

So these jerseys were scanned more than likely to game used 9/30/15; but not given holograms? They were given postseason patches and taken for possible use. For some reason this style was not used in either postseason series. Then after, given hologram stickers to last date used. If not entirely accurate at least I think were closer to the story

[sctizzle]

I forgot the Mets have the barcode--so yes I assume it's even easier. Other teams who don't the authenticators have to mark something else like the wash tag or somewhere else they know to look with whatever their secret device is...

But yes I bet they were all scanned 9/30 and later after the season they were rescanned and then hologramed. I'm sure all teams do something slightly different but I bet this is what the Mets did...or they added patches knowing they would sell to fans who wanted a patch jersey...

[metsbats]

Judging from the JB prefix on the holograms these jerseys were definitely authenticated and hologramed by MLB on or about 11/24. All the post season bats I own were authenticated that week (I had to wait for MLB to come in to do the Cespedes WS bat I brought) and it and others have the JB prefix.

So yes what was stated certainly happened. These were authenticated as 9/30/15 game used, kept in inventory for use in the post season and patched as such, never used and finally hologramed as 9/30 game used.

[johnsontravis@ymail.com]

I am going to disagree that these jerseys were hologramed during postseason time. Going in order the next hologram numbers list items from the next series with Philly at the start of October. So in my mind these jerseys were given their holograms on September 30th. I think most that are covert marked actually mention that and the session date will be that later date they were authenticated. As you can see on these jerseys they have a session date of September 30th.

As for scanning the tag on the jersey does anyone actually know exactly what that is for? That is new this year and I have never seen something specifically describing their purpose. I doubt the authenticator was scanning that tag and instead scanning those bigger barcodes you see next to him. Possibly the mini holograms too, but not sure that is needed in the authentication process.

My guess is that they took their extra patches laying around and added them to the jersey. Probably having no intention for postseason use, but maybe so. I know teams have been know to just add them after the fact.

Maybe I am missing something here, but that is my understanding.

[johnsontravis@ymail.com]

Also if that barcode on the jersey could act as a covert mark why aren't jerseys having info added every time they are used. Wouldn't they be more valuable if they were covert marked every time they got used if it was that easy? Then they could be authenticated to many games not just one.

[Swoboda4]

Here's a scary thought. The jerseys get a hologram on the date listed (9/30) and could that have ultimately prevented them from being used; because has anyone known a player to have ever used a jersey already given a hologram sticker? I believe no. So why the patch; which has always made me entertain the thought of removing the postseason patch. I'm not going to do it, but it requires me to do a lot of explaining to someone when the last time the jerseys were worn in a game, the patch was not on them. It looks cool but it has nothing to do with these game used jerseys.

[Swoboda4]

I'll leave you with this, the LAST time they were used, there were no postseason patches on them. Would you remove them?

[metsbats]

I think the only way to find out is to go back to the source ( the Mets) and ask. I'm just going by the prefix which came with all the items I know were authenticated in Nov and these jerseys have the same (JB). I do agree with Robert that it's a scary thought that jerseys which were hologramed and authenticated from the 9/30 game were set to be reused as postseason jerseys with the 9/30 hologram in place. It would not be advantageous to the team to authenticate the jersey as 9/30 used and then use them in the post season. They were better off creating a new set of these style jerseys with not only the post season patches but the post season set inventory designation (ex. PS1,etc) and get a premium price for them as issued but not used.

But Johnsontravis you bring up a valid point. There is a Daniel Murphy WS cap on auction (being sold by one our forum members) right now which is attributed to use in several NLCS games and WS games. The hologram number lists all games the cap was worn so the team most likely removed the playoff patch and replaced it with the WS patch.

So why could they not authenticate Robert's jerseys as 1) use in the 9/30 Philly game and 2) game issued for the postseason but not worn?

[Jags Fan Dan]

Here's a scary thought. The jerseys get a hologram on the date listed (9/30) and could that have ultimately prevented them from being used; because has anyone known a player to have ever used a jersey already given a hologram sticker? I believe no. So why the patch; which has always made me entertain the thought of removing the postseason patch. I'm not going to do it, but it requires me to do a lot of explaining to someone when the last time the jerseys were worn in a game, the patch was not on them. It looks cool but it has nothing to do with these game used jerseys.

I remember a post on here showing a player wearing a jersey with a hologram on it. This is a vague memory, but it seems like it was a one game only jersey, perhaps something like a "futures" game or something.

[yanks12025]

Teams/players do wear jerseys sometimes after they have the hologram put on them.

It's either two things with these jerseys. The mets are a cheap a** team and probably didn't want to to buy new jerseys. So they thought they might use these again for the playoffs. They would then put the patches on and if they were used in the playoffs, MLB would have updated the hologram description and it would have stated game used 9/30 and then probably games 1 or whatever in the playoffs.


Number 2, is the mets just put patches on all their left over jerseys to try to milk more money from people. Pretty sure someone made a comment about another team doing this years ago.

[johnsontravis@ymail.com]

Contacting the Mets is probably going to give you a for sure answer. They could tell you if there was an intention to wear them.

As for removing the patch I personally would if they never intended to use them in the postseason...assuming it can be done without leaving a mark. If they happen to be issued to the post season it is a bit more debatable, but I probably still would. It just looks awkward with the patch and I prefer things to look how they were actually used.

Regardless I don't even know how much it matters if they were postseason issued or not. Does that really increase value or how cool they are?

[shafrancollectibles.com]

There is a Daniel Murphy WS cap on auction (being sold by one our forum members) right now which is attributed to use in several NLCS games and WS games. The hologram number lists all games the cap was worn so the team most likely removed the playoff patch and replaced it with the WS patch.



That particular hat actually has 2 holograms - as does the Jeurys Familia hat worn for a similar mix of games. As a matter of fact, they both were also worn on October 4, 2015 - the final regular season game. The Familia has a lone hologram for that date (which I only recently just discovered and it was his franchise-tying 43rd save game) and then a second hologram for all the postseason games. The Murphy has a hologram for the final regular season game which also has a WS game attached to its authentication and then another hologram for all the other games it was used.

And yes, the Postseason patches were clearly removed and replaced with WS patches on both.

[metsbats]

That particular hat actually has 2 holograms - as does the Jeurys Familia hat worn for a similar mix of games. As a matter of fact, they both were also worn on October 4, 2015 - the final regular season game. The Familia has a lone hologram for that date (which I only recently just discovered and it was his franchise-tying 43rd save game) and then a second hologram for all the postseason games. The Murphy has a hologram for the final regular season game which also has a WS game attached to its authentication and then another hologram for all the other games it was used.

And yes, the Postseason patches were clearly removed and replaced with WS patches on both.


Thanks Brad for the info. That Murphy cap is a great item.

[metsbats]

Teams/players do wear jerseys sometimes after they have the hologram put on them.

It's either two things with these jerseys. The mets are a cheap a** team and probably didn't want to to buy new jerseys. So they thought they might use these again for the playoffs. They would then put the patches on and if they were used in the playoffs, MLB would have updated the hologram description and it would have stated game used 9/30 and then probably games 1 or whatever in the playoffs.


Number 2, is the mets just put patches on all their left over jerseys to try to milk more money from people. Pretty sure someone made a comment about another team doing this years ago.

Mets cheap? Why I never would have thought:D

[Swoboda4]

I contacted Amazin Memorabilia and all they know was that they were used on 9/30 and then patched up to use in the playoffs. They don't know why they weren't used. Now- , I looked at the current inventory list of Amazin Memorabilia to work on this and I see another mystery: " D. Murphy- Team Issued-Blue Alternate Away Jersey- 10/26/15 (no game that day, and the day before World Series starts)-JB 089743-Postseason patch- $2,500." What's this about!? I checked the MLB database and it lists "game used dirt and team issued". I asked A.M. and I haven't got an answer, I'm assuming they're on vacation till Monday. I'm backtracking At Bat game video and don't see it yet (assuming Sept?). Murphy jerseys go in the low $400's and the 9/30 jersey went a bit higher, but $2,500 ?? Interesting piece.

[johnsontravis@ymail.com]

Now that sounds like an attempt to milk money by adding the postseason patch. I can't imagine that jersey was actually used in the postseason and not be authenticated as game used. Not after how he was playing. Way too much goes into authenticating everything in the postseason.

[Swoboda4]

I'm going to leave the patches on since you can always take them off but you can't put them back (the same way) once you do take them off. Do them being prepared for Postseason and not used, add value? The Mets say they were "preparing them for use" and would more than likely say the addition of the patch indicates that, we say you haven't added "team issued for postseason". I think they don't sweat this like we would, and documentation will improve in the future. But if every set of game used jerseys remaining at the end of the season gets patched to add value, that practice should stop.

[metsbats]

Robert,

There were other non PS-tagged (regular set 1 -3) jerseys actually worn during the playoffs and authenticated as such. These were road grey and home blue alternatives and one white pinstripe. So yes there were regular set jerseys patched and actually worn for postseason. So it was very well possible these blue road alternative jerseys were patched for use in the playoffs and of course never worn. I don't think the team intentionally patched these to get any sort of premium though that was the side effect of patching.

David

[metsbats]

Robert,

There were other non PS-tagged (regular set 1 -3) jerseys actually worn during the playoffs and authenticated as such. These were road grey and home blue alternatives and one white pinstripe. So yes there were regular set jerseys patched and actually worn for postseason. So it was very well possible these blue road alternative jerseys were patched for use in the playoffs and of course never worn. I don't think the team intentionally patched these to get any sort of premium though that was the side effect of patching.

David


And these were all playoff (post season patched) jerseys of which three were major stars (Granderson, Matz, D'Arnaud)

[Swoboda4]

Let me say that when the jerseys were initially requested, an email from Amazin Memorabilia was received to inform us that they were ultimately not used in the playoffs and the sale could be cancelled. But my family knew I wanted a blue away jersey from this year and a Murphy home run jersey besides, so patch or no patch, they went foward. I have to say that the Mets were NOT trying to pass these off and were upfront about " these are game used, and they were patched- but not used in the playoffs."

[metsbats]

I'm going to leave the patches on since you can always take them off but you can't put them back (the same way) once you do take them off. Do them being prepared for Postseason and not used, add value? The Mets say they were "preparing them for use" and would more than likely say the addition of the patch indicates that, we say you haven't added "team issued for postseason". I think they don't sweat this like we would, and documentation will improve in the future. But if every set of game used jerseys remaining at the end of the season gets patched to add value, that practice should stop.

I agree with you on this. You should leave the patches on.

[johnsontravis@ymail.com]

Did they wear this style in the postseason? If not I guess that explains why they were never worn and just issued. If there was a different set of this style jersey being used in the postseason these must have been brought along as emergency back ups or something in case someone destroyed their jersey. Being on the road quickly making up a jersey might be a little harder than usual.

They could have continued to use these, but they maximize profits by having two used sets instead of one used and one flat out issued. I know teams have swapped out for brand new helmets just for the postseason too in the past.

[metsbats]

The only time these blue roads were used was game 1 of the World Series in kc.

For some reason they only wore road greys in the playoffs.