Won an auction - now I need your opinions

[aallanson]

Without outing the auction (or the seller) I have a question for the group. So I won an auction for a game worn NFL jersey this morning. Before paying for it, I decided to do a little more due diligence. After surfing around the Web I found the original auction house auction where the seller won the jersey. When I saw the auction house photos I noticed that the jersey in the auction house listing was more soiled than the jersey in the ebay auction. Noticeably so. So I messaged the seller and asked why the stains were missing from the jersey and he told me that he washed it because it stunk. That information was not in the ebay listing. Now I can't photomatch it and I can't even point back to the original auction house listing for provenance. Now what am I supposed to do? Should I have to pay for it? I consider it vital information that was concealed and I also consider the jersey to be altered. Am I wrong? Please let me know your opinions. Thanks.

[jbean023]

Without outing the auction (or the seller) I have a question for the group. So I won an auction for a game worn NFL jersey this morning. Before paying for it, I decided to do a little more due diligence. After surfing around the Web I found the original auction house auction where the seller won the jersey. When I saw the auction house photos I noticed that the jersey in the auction house listing was more soiled than the jersey in the ebay auction. Noticeably so. So I messaged the seller and asked why the stains were missing from the jersey and he told me that he washed it because it stunk. That information was not in the ebay listing. Now I can't photomatch it and I can't even point back to the original auction house listing for provenance. Now what am I supposed to do? Should I have to pay for it? I consider it vital information that was concealed and I also consider the jersey to be altered. Am I wrong? Please let me know your opinions. Thanks.

I wouldn't pay for the jersey and leave feedback stating that, if it stinks don't buy it or sell it if you don't have a frame, smell to strong, or place to air it out. My as well send it to get put on cards after washing it. A guy sold a game used Blackhawks jersey last week and the buyer looked the jersey over and seen a burn hole. The guy wore it to a concert previously and dropped his cig lol, $2,000 mistake.

[SBRBACK]

Seller here. First of all, I like to keep my listings honest, and I can honestly say that my jersey is a game worn jersey as confirmed by its use, COA, and matching cert. Just because a jersey has been washed doesn't mean it has been somehow "un-used". There is no second-hand damage to the jersey like the cigarette burn in the Blackhawks jersey mentioned before... it was simply washed. Also, in the auction house's description there was no mention of it being un-washed. I was just as surprised when I initially opened the packaging to met by a wave of pungent odor. I have collected a bit of game used jerseys over the years so I know the have a smell but this one was pretty intense. Now I don't know if washing is considered taboo for this community but as a personal collector I just need some proof it was worn in a game for it have value. From what I remember, pre JoSportsCo days it was standard for jerseys to come washed, hence why the more modern game worn jerseys have more usage. Does that mean all the jerseys from 10+ years ago have no value and aren't truly game worn because they are washed?

[danesei@yahoo.com]

Seller here. First of all, I like to keep my listings honest, and I can honestly say that my jersey is a game worn jersey as confirmed by its use, COA, and matching cert. Just because a jersey has been washed doesn't mean it has been somehow "un-used". There is no second-hand damage to the jersey like the cigarette burn in the Blackhawks jersey mentioned before... it was simply washed. Also, in the auction house's description there was no mention of it being un-washed. I was just as surprised when I initially opened the packaging to met by a wave of pungent odor. I have collected a bit of game used jerseys over the years so I know the have a smell but this one was pretty intense. Now I don't know if washing is considered taboo for this community but as a personal collector I just need some proof it was worn in a game for it have value. From what I remember, pre JoSportsCo days it was standard for jerseys to come washed, hence why the more modern game worn jerseys have more usage. Does that mean all the jerseys from 10+ years ago have no value and aren't truly game worn because they are washed?

I agree with the seller on this one. The buyer won the auction with the information available. The washing of the jersey was done before the auction. Personally, I would never wash a gamer, but I don't think it's fair to back out of winning the auction because it was washed. I've received washed and/or Febreezed gamers in the past. I was disappointed, but not enough so to return the item. The buyer should follow through with their purchase.

[danesei@yahoo.com]

Without outing the auction (or the seller) I have a question for the group. So I won an auction for a game worn NFL jersey this morning. Before paying for it, I decided to do a little more due diligence. After surfing around the Web I found the original auction house auction where the seller won the jersey. When I saw the auction house photos I noticed that the jersey in the auction house listing was more soiled than the jersey in the ebay auction. Noticeably so. So I messaged the seller and asked why the stains were missing from the jersey and he told me that he washed it because it stunk. That information was not in the ebay listing. Now I can't photomatch it and I can't even point back to the original auction house listing for provenance. Now what am I supposed to do? Should I have to pay for it? I consider it vital information that was concealed and I also consider the jersey to be altered. Am I wrong? Please let me know your opinions. Thanks.

I would actually ask the seller for a statement of provenance and the original receipt. If you can photo match the original "stained" picture, a notarized statement to the effect of "I purchased the jersey from X auction. I have held the jersey in my possession since that purchase. It was washed to remove odors, but this is the original jersey." would likely suffice. i'd have the seller take photos and include them with the statement.

That said, I think you're still obligated to purchase, since washing the jersey isn't an alteration. It's not like they added or removed letters or numbers. With a bat, I could see how washing or cleaning the bat would be altering the surface, but with jerseys... they're meant to be washed. The teams wash them.

[aallanson]

It's a complex issue, and I appreciate all the responses so far (including the seller's response).

[Stanley]

If you bid on it, you own it.
You should of done your research before you bid....not after

[jbean023]

Seller here. First of all, I like to keep my listings honest, and I can honestly say that my jersey is a game worn jersey as confirmed by its use, COA, and matching cert. Just because a jersey has been washed doesn't mean it has been somehow "un-used". There is no second-hand damage to the jersey like the cigarette burn in the Blackhawks jersey mentioned before... it was simply washed. Also, in the auction house's description there was no mention of it being un-washed. I was just as surprised when I initially opened the packaging to met by a wave of pungent odor. I have collected a bit of game used jerseys over the years so I know the have a smell but this one was pretty intense. Now I don't know if washing is considered taboo for this community but as a personal collector I just need some proof it was worn in a game for it have value. From what I remember, pre JoSportsCo days it was standard for jerseys to come washed, hence why the more modern game worn jerseys have more usage. Does that mean all the jerseys from 10+ years ago have no value and aren't truly game worn because they are washed?

I wasn't comparing jerseys, I was comparing people wearing and washing jerseys. No that does not mean that the jerseys have no value, it means you altered the jersey from its original state and should of mentioned that. If you bought the jersey washed then so be it. If you altered the jersey you should of mentioned that in the eBay auction. If you were buying a game used fielding glove and I used it for a summer, is it the same value? Not even close, but it's the same glove. Still has value just not the same value. Wouldn't you want to know that I used it(altered it's original state). If you had a brand new item and got dirt on it by dropping it, wouldn't you mention that in an auction? You can compare it to any situation, describe the item to the best of your ability. You might get 10-20 collectors on here that say they wouldn't mind but the majority would want to know that the jersey is washed.

[aallanson]

If you bid on it, you own it.
You should of done your research before you bid....not after


In all fairness, I did do research prior to bidding. I continued to do research after I won it. I assumed (and we all know what happens when we assume) that the seller didn't do anything to the jersey after he got it, when, in fact, he washed it, removing valuable marks that I could have used in the photomatching process (which is what I was doing when I discovered the changes from the original auction until now). That he washed the jersey was not included in his auction description. I wouldn't have left out that information if I was selling it. Would you have left it out?

[jbean023]

If I have a PSA/DNA autographed bat and clean the auto off and all the ball marks, it's still the same bat? The photos don't match up from my item to the LOA anymore? Same scenario, minus the smell.

[aallanson]

I wasn't comparing jerseys, I was comparing people wearing and washing jerseys. No that does not mean that the jerseys have no value, it means you altered the jersey from its original state and should of mentioned that. If you bought the jersey washed then so be it. If you altered the jersey you should of mentioned that in the eBay auction. If you were buying a game used fielding glove and I used it for a summer, is it the same value? Not even close, but it's the same glove. Still has value just not the same value. Wouldn't you want to know that I used it(altered it's original state). If you had a brand new item and got dirt on it by dropping it, wouldn't you mention that in an auction? You can compare it to any situation, describe the item to the best of your ability. You might get 10-20 collectors on here that say they wouldn't mind but the majority would want to know that the jersey is washed.

This. Jbean023 said it way better than I did. I am not saying that I am right, I am just saying that this is what I wanted to say and this is how I feel.

[Stanley]

Would you have paid more with more dirt? You bid with the amount of dirt you saw on it. And you were happy.

[aallanson]

Would you have paid more with more dirt? You bid with the amount of dirt you saw on it. And you were happy.

You are not asking the right question here. I will ask the right question and answer it for you as well. Would I have bid on it had I known it has been washed (and for sake of accuracy, I will say that this was a Buy it now/best offer listing, not an auction)? The answer to that question is no.

[aallanson]

Would you have paid more with more dirt? You bid with the amount of dirt you saw on it. And you were happy.


Here's another question and answer: Would I have made an offer on the jersey had I known that it would be impossible to photomatch it because the second owner of the jersey washed the jersey after receiving it and didn't disclose that information on his auction when he listed it for sale? The answer is, again, no.

[Stanley]

I understand. And feel that the seller should have a detailed description. And I feel that there was some deception. I hope it works out for you in future bidding.

[aallanson]

I understand. And feel that the seller should have a detailed description. And I feel that there was some deception. I hope it works out for you in future bidding.


Thank you, Stanley. I appreciate that. i don't think the seller intended to deceive me, but I do wish he had included all the pertinent information in his listing. I hope he adds in the fact that he washed the jersey when he relists it for sale.

[SBRBACK]

I wasn't comparing jerseys, I was comparing people wearing and washing jerseys. No that does not mean that the jerseys have no value, it means you altered the jersey from its original state and should of mentioned that. If you bought the jersey washed then so be it. If you altered the jersey you should of mentioned that in the eBay auction. If you were buying a game used fielding glove and I used it for a summer, is it the same value? Not even close, but it's the same glove. Still has value just not the same value. Wouldn't you want to know that I used it(altered it's original state). If you had a brand new item and got dirt on it by dropping it, wouldn't you mention that in an auction? You can compare it to any situation, describe the item to the best of your ability. You might get 10-20 collectors on here that say they wouldn't mind but the majority would want to know that the jersey is washed.

If you were to use a glove over summer, that would add second-hand usage to the item. I wouldn't put washing a jersey in same category as its common practice for a team to do so if they decide to use it in multiple games, the same reason I assume team repairs are done. And let's not forget that prior to bidding on the jersey he was fine with my description. It wasn't until he looked at the auction photos and noticed the difference and to add to that, the auction description made no mention of it being "un-washed". I let the seller know that myself, after he asked, after he already purchased the jersey.

[SBRBACK]

Here's another question and answer: Would I have made an offer on the jersey had I known that it would be impossible to photomatch it because the second owner of the jersey washed the jersey after receiving it and didn't disclose that information on his auction when he listed it for sale? The answer is, again, no.

If you had done your research and asked questions, I would have let you know before-hand. Also, every listing including one of my own where if a jersey is unwashed, it would be listed as "unwashed". Never in my experience of collecting jerseys have a just assumed a jersey comes unwashed. It might be common now, but it is usually included in the listing if it is unwashed, not implied.

[aallanson]

If you were to use a glove over summer, that would add second-hand usage to the item. I wouldn't put washing a jersey in same category as its common practice for a team to do so if they decide to use it in multiple games, the same reason I assume team repairs are done. And let's not forget that prior to bidding on the jersey he was fine with my description. It wasn't until he looked at the auction photos and noticed the difference and to add to that, the auction description made no mention of it being "un-washed". I let the seller know that myself, after he asked, after he already purchased the jersey.

What you let me know in your response to my inquiry was that I was "a moron," a "joke boy," and also that it "was a shame that I didn't get to bury my nose in (the player's) musk." Let's not pretend any different now that other people are reading your words. You didn't mention in your description that you washed the jersey. I asked you what happened to the marks on the jersey since you acquired it at auction. You responded that you "washed the jersey because it was absolutely putrid." Those were your responses.

[SBRBACK]

Now now, lets not pretend that you did not call me a joke before I threw anything at you... But anyway, are we not discussing the actual ethics of my listing? I am putting my opinion in as its my right.

[aallanson]

If you had done your research and asked questions, I would have let you know before-hand. Also, every listing including one of my own where if a jersey is unwashed, it would be listed as "unwashed". Never in my experience of collecting jerseys have a just assumed a jersey comes unwashed. It might be common now, but it is usually included in the listing if it is unwashed, not implied.

I have to guess what you did to your item? Or maybe you were hoping to sell it without disclosing that you washed it. NFL auctions received it unwashed and subsequently sold it that way. The auction house sold it unwashed. You received it unwashed. You washed it. Then you listed it for sale and didn't mention that fact.

[aallanson]

Now now, lets not pretend that you did not call me a joke before I threw anything at you... But anyway, are we not discussing the actual ethics of my listing? I am putting my opinion in as its my right.

I said "what a joke." I did not call you a joke. The only flippant comment I made was me saying, "you probably wore it too."

[SBRBACK]

I have to guess what you did to your item? Or maybe you were hoping to sell it without disclosing that you washed it. NFL auctions received it unwashed and subsequently sold it that way. The auction house sold it unwashed. You received it unwashed. You washed it. Then you listed it for sale and didn't mention that fact.

Listen if you would have asked I would have told you. My listing even states to message me with any questions you may have. I am not a poster to this forum so I guess I don't know washing is bad, all I know is that you bought a game worn jersey with all correct authentication and as far as I'm concerned game usage. In fact I had another jersey up that I had to specify as being "un-washed".

[aallanson]

Listen if you would have asked I would have told you. My listing even states to message me with any questions you may have. I am not a poster to this forum so I guess I don't know washing is bad, all I know is that you bought a game worn jersey with all correct authentication and as far as I'm concerned game usage. In fact I had another jersey up that I had to specify as being "un-washed".

I shouldn't have to ask if you did something to an item that you are selling. You should voluntarily disclose that information because you are the one who knows that you did it. You say you mentioned that one of your other listings you mentioned that the jersey was unwashed. So why wouldn't you put into this listing that you washed the jersey? "Don't worry about the putrid smell, boys. I washed this jersey the second I got it," would have sufficed.

[SBRBACK]

I have to guess what you did to your item? Or maybe you were hoping to sell it without disclosing that you washed it. NFL auctions received it unwashed and subsequently sold it that way. The auction house sold it unwashed. You received it unwashed. You washed it. Then you listed it for sale and didn't mention that fact.

I think the problem is that you are assuming every collector shares your/ this forums jersey preservation etiquette. Like a said earlier I don't read or post here so to me it's the same difference perhaps only compromising the ease of photo-matching.

[aallanson]

I think the problem is that you are assuming every collector shares your/ this forums jersey preservation etiquette. Like a said earlier I don't read or post here so to me it's the same difference perhaps only compromising the ease of photo-matching.

Agree to disagree then.

Re: you not posting here, but it's funny how you mentioned in your message to me on eBay that you "used to post here but haven't in a while." Wonder what your user name here used to be before you responded to this thread under this screen name.

I'm not paying for the jersey. You may as well file your NPB claim with eBay.

[SBRBACK]

Agree to disagree then.

Re: you not posting here, but it's funny how you mentioned in your message to me on eBay that you "used to post here but haven't in a while." Wonder what your user name here used to be before you responded to this thread under this screen name.

I'm not paying for the jersey. You may as well file your NPB claim with eBay.

Ok Guy I figured such, never tried forcing you to pay me. Just another eBayer buying on impulse and regretting it.

[jbean023]

I think the problem is that you are assuming every collector shares your/ this forums jersey preservation etiquette. Like a said earlier I don't read or post here so to me it's the same difference perhaps only compromising the ease of photo-matching.

It's not that everyone shares the same thoughts or preservation. Im not comparing the wearing a glove to washing, I'm comparing altering an item as a collector. If you get something autographed after the fact you explain it in a listing, if you had a bat cracked in 2 and had a repair job done to the bat you mention it, if a jersey has had a patch restored it's mentioned, it's your jersey wash it and wear it 100 times but when you go to sell it mention that. That's all I'm saying.

[ndevlin]

Asked and I would've told you? That sounds like something Mears told me a few yrs ago-- "Oh well if you would've asked we would've told you the bat had deadwood on the back."

I shouldn't need to ask. List it in the description and show a photo.

[SBRBACK]

Asked and I would've told you? That sounds like something Mears told me a few yrs ago-- "Oh well if you would've asked we would've told you the bat had deadwood on the back."

I shouldn't need to ask. List it in the description and show a photo.

Jesus, well apparently it must be mentioned. Honestly guys, I really don't understand why it matters. I know you guys have purchased game used items from older players and would've been surprised to see it as un-washed. I had thought JoSportsCo had mainstreamed the practice of selling them as such just to market them as more "direct from the field". For example, I would be surprised to find, lets say a Shaun Alexander jersey that was un-washed. Plus, aren't alterations are made to make things a appear more abused and battered rather than washing them and erasing photo matching evidence? Regardless, I will include it as being washed when I resist it. I guess thats all I have to say. :confused:

[ndevlin]

Calm down, I see both sides.

That being said, let's say I bought a jersey from Goldin last yr in their auction that had a good amount of dirt on the front. Well, this year I planned on selling it and when I got it out, it smelt like crap so I washed it, which happened to wash out the dirt stains. I go ahead and sell it to you as is without mentioning anything. Then, 2 days later you search and find the listing of the jersey sold last yr in Goldin but it's missing the dirt stains in the front. So now you have auction #1(jersey with dirt stains), and auction #2(jersey with no stains). How would you feel about that? Pissed that I didnt tell you I washed it after I bought it from auction #1, or pissed you didn't do your hw before you purchased it in auction #2?

[SBRBACK]

Calm down, I see both sides.

That being said, let's say I bought a jersey from Goldin last yr in their auction that had a good amount of dirt on the front. Well, this year I planned on selling it and when I got it out, it smelt like crap so I washed it, which happened to wash out the dirt stains. I go ahead and sell it to you as is without mentioning anything. Then, 2 days later you search and find the listing of the jersey sold last yr in Goldin but it's missing the dirt stains in the front. So now you have auction #1(jersey with dirt stains), and auction #2(jersey with no stains). How would you feel about that? Pissed that I didnt tell you I washed it after I bought it from auction #1, or pissed you didn't do your hw before you purchased it in auction #2?

Honestly, as long as it is a game used jersey with authentication backing it up I would be fine. Even if I was okay with a smelly jersey I might be disappointed that I received it with less usage than when it came off the field but as long as the seller didn't put the before photos to attract me as a buyer then I have the responsibility.

[Jim65]

To me the jersey was altered and seller should have stated as such. It doesn't sound like seller was being deceptive but he should learn a lesson from this.

[aallanson]

I would like to thank everyone who took the time to respond to this thread (including the seller and those who disagree with me). The seller and I have mutually agreed to cancel this transaction. I should be receiving the cancel request shortly. Again, thank you. Alan

[aallanson]

I would like to thank everyone who took the time to respond to this thread (including the seller and those who disagree with me). The seller and I have mutually agreed to cancel this transaction. I should be receiving the cancel request shortly. Again, thank you. Alan

I would also like to thank the forum members who emailed me in lieu of posting in this thread. I appreciate your support.

[danesei@yahoo.com]

I would also like to thank the forum members who emailed me in lieu of posting in this thread. I appreciate your support.

After seeing the comments between you and the seller, I would like to say that I wouldn't fault you with not wanting to complete the transaction. This has nothing to do with the item, but rather entirely a result of the seller's attitude.

[G1X]

I really didn't want to jump in, but I just can't resist. I agree with the Seller that the jersey is still game-worn. Saying that washing a jersey somehow alters it would mean that every 50-plus year old durene jersey, or just about any 20th century in my collection - and in all of your collections as well - are altered as the teams washed the jerseys after the last game, and some collectors might wash their jerseys from time-to-time for various reasons. I will let all of you mull over the thought of having a collection full of washed jerseys - HORRORS :)

Some collectors like dirty, stinky jerseys, and some can't stand to smell another person's funk and/or have a dirty jersey sitting in their collection. Some collectors just don't care if someone washed the jersey as long as they are convinced that it is what it supposed to be. For others, it is a very big deal and they see it as being an altered jersey. At the end of the day, it's all a matter of personal taste and setting your own parameters of what you collect. If washing a jersey is a big deal to you, then ask the question. To use an example, it is much like collecting flannel baseball jerseys. If you don't like flannel jerseys with number changes and/or restorations (not uncommon on flannels), you ask that question upfront. It's not always the case of a seller being dishonest or trying to hide something. Sometimes, they just don't know, and sometimes they see it as not being a big deal because it is not a big deal to them (and never gave it much thought as being a big deal to someone else). And sometimes, things are simply missed.

Here's my two-cents worth on the transaction being discussed. The Seller doesn't like a pungent jersey in his house. He washed the jersey. That is certainly no crime. For him, it made sense and he did not see it as a big deal (as it was not a big deal to him), so he didn't say anything. Besides, it appears that he listed photos of the jersey where it was apparent that it had been washed when compared to previous photos. In my humble opinion, he was not trying to hide anything or deceive anyone.

However, for the Buyer, having the dirt and stink is a big deal. He wanted an unwashed jersey, and it sounds like he would not have bid had he known that fact. The Buyer ended up being unhappy with the purchase for a valid reason. Simple solution to this whole affair - have a pleasant conversation and ask for a refund. The Seller should not hesitate as you always want to be sure that your customer is happy with the item they purchased. It sounds like this is what happened. End of story.

Finally, all of this begs this one final question. Since 99.99% of 20th century jerseys have been washed, are Sellers obligated to state this fact in their listings? :eek: I don't think so . . .

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange

[aallanson]

Mark, I agree with 99 percent of what you are saying. I don't think he was trying to deceive me. In his listing he said the jersey was full of hit marks and paint transfers, etc. I assumed that meant he left it in tact from the auction during which he had acquired it. From the auction he acquired it, I could only find one picture still remaining online. I had known about the original auction when it happened, I just didn't have money to buy it any other time it was for sale. Now I had the money. I offered about 20 percent more than he bought it for at auction figuring he could make a little money and I could get the jersey for a fair price. After he agreed I was gathering all the online pictures i could find for the item. I downloaded his ebay photos and the single photo from the other auction. When I compared those photos, I noticed that some marks were no longer on the jersey. That's when I politely ask what happened. He politely responded that he washed it. I politely responded that I would need to cancel the purchase because he didnt disclose that he washed it. I think that falls under SNAD. That's just my opinion. He responded by calling me a time waster and a moron. I responded in part by making a flippant comment that he probably wore it too and didn't disclose that fact. I called the whole thing a joke. He called me a joke boy and said that he was sorry that I could stick my nose in the player's musk. I posted an anonymous opinion question on here. I didn't want to out the auction or the seller. He told me he appreciated that. He said he would read the thread. We had our discussion on here and then we agreed to cancel the transaction which still hasnt happened btw. That's a nice recap for everyone who needs one.

[aallanson]

For reference, the seller cancelled the transaction and it ended amicably. If you want to respond to this thread some more re: the concept of washing game worn jerseys and the perceived diminishing of value of them after doing so, please feel free as I think this was a fun debate.

[jbean023]

Finally, all of this begs this one final question. Since 99.99% of 20th century jerseys have been washed, are Sellers obligated to state this fact in their listings? :eek: I don't think so . . .

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange

If you washed it personally than yes 100% you are obligated.

[G1X]

If you washed it personally than yes 100% you are obligated.

Most collectors I know who collect older stuff (prior to the "unwashed era") just don't get too hung up on this issue. The jersey was washed by the team, so what if it gets washed again? Who cares? You and others might, and that's fine as we all have the right to set our own parameters and comfort level, but I along with a lot of other collectors just don't care.

I have jerseys in my collection that I originally obtained over 40 years ago. To be honest, I might not necessarily recall that I washed a few of them back in the 1980s or '90s. It's jsut not that important in the grand scheme of things as the jersey is what it is - once used in a game a very long time ago. Washing such a jersey that was already washed to begin with doesn't change a thing.

I collect old durene NFL jerseys and WFL jerseys (defunct league from 1974/75). These are hard to find to begin with, so I am not the least bit concerned whether the seller or anyone else has washed the jersey (or worn it) over the past half century. I have already made the assumption that it most likely has been washed or worn at some point over the years.

Speaking only for myself, if a jersey comes into my house and smells like cigarette smoke, a Lab Retriever, or cologne, I'm probably going to wash it. When you buy old stuff, most collectors I know make the assumption that the jersey might have been washed by a collector along the way, and someone has probably worn it as well. I just don't think that it is on the radar screen of most collectors.

As I stated in my previous post, if those sort of issues are a concern to anyone, then you should ask before making the purchase. Find out if Seller the has worn the jersey, washed it, etc. While it may be your concern, and I respect your opinion on the matter, it is not my concern nor the concern of most collectors I've dealt with over the past 40+ years.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange

[G1X]

P.S. Don't get me wrong - if you in any manner change the appearance of a jersey - washing dirt from an "unwashed jersey", washing a jersey so many times that it fades, crinkles the numbers, or cracks the numbers (screened-on numbers) etc., then you should by all means disclose that sort of thing right up front.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange

[sox83cubs84]

Most collectors I know who collect older stuff (prior to the "unwashed era") just don't get too hung up on this issue. The jersey was washed by the team, so what if it gets washed again? Who cares? You and others might, and that's fine as we all have the right to set our own parameters and comfort level, but I along with a lot of other collectors just don't care.

I have jerseys in my collection that I originally obtained over 40 years ago. To be honest, I might not necessarily recall that I washed a few of them back in the 1980s or '90s. It's jsut not that important in the grand scheme of things as the jersey is what it is - once used in a game a very long time ago. Washing such a jersey that was already washed to begin with doesn't change a thing.

I collect old durene NFL jerseys and WFL jerseys (defunct league from 1974/75). These are hard to find to begin with, so I am not the least bit concerned whether the seller or anyone else has washed the jersey (or worn it) over the past half century. I have already made the assumption that it most likely has been washed or worn at some point over the years.

Speaking only for myself, if a jersey comes into my house and smells like cigarette smoke, a Lab Retriever, or cologne, I'm probably going to wash it. When you buy old stuff, most collectors I know make the assumption that the jersey might have been washed by a collector along the way, and someone has probably worn it as well. I just don't think that it is on the radar screen of most collectors.

As I stated in my previous post, if those sort of issues are a concern to anyone, then you should ask before making the purchase. Find out if Seller the has worn the jersey, washed it, etc. While it may be your concern, and I respect your opinion on the matter, it is not my concern nor the concern of most collectors I've dealt with over the past 40+ years.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange

+1:)

Dave Miedema

[jbean023]

P.S. Don't get me wrong - if you in any manner change the appearance of a jersey - washing dirt from an "unwashed jersey", washing a jersey so many times that it fades, crinkles the numbers, or cracks the numbers (screened-on numbers) etc., then you should by all means disclose that sort of thing right up front.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange

That's what we are discussing here.

[danesei@yahoo.com]

P.S. Don't get me wrong - if you in any manner change the appearance of a jersey - washing dirt from an "unwashed jersey", washing a jersey so many times that it fades, crinkles the numbers, or cracks the numbers (screened-on numbers) etc., then you should by all means disclose that sort of thing right up front.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange


That's what we are discussing here.

I'm under the impression that Mark meant jerseys that were never washed. My understanding was the jersey in question was one used for more than a single game, and the assumption was the team washed it before the seller washed it.

I realize that might seem like semantics, but that's how I read it.

[G1X]

I'm under the impression that Mark meant jerseys that were never washed. My understanding was the jersey in question was one used for more than a single game, and the assumption was the team washed it before the seller washed it.

I realize that might seem like semantics, but that's how I read it.

In order to avoid any confusion and misinterpretation of my statements, please note that my P.S. post (post #42) went with my preceding post (post #41) keeping in mind that those posts were in response to jbean. Reading those 2 posts as one will hopefully clarify my point.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchnage