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Birdbats
01-17-2007, 06:03 PM
I just wanted to share a warning with the collecting community regarding David Eckstein "game-used" bats. At the Winter Warmup this past Saturday, I had David sign a bat belonging to one of my friends who couldn't attend. David asked where I got the bat and examined it closely. He didn't say it was bad, but simply said, "This is the fourth bat like this today. I don't give my bats away." He said basically the same thing to another collector friend of mine who was behind me in line.

I had the honor of having the booth next to David's family; they were selling his new book, "Have Heart." The day after my encounter with David, I had a great conversation with his sister, Christine. She said she and David had talked Saturday night about the bats he'd signed. He suggested they not only showed counterfeit use, but also that most (if not all of them) showed the same false characteristics.

The bat I had signed for my friend was purchased on eBay from lumberjackkitz. The bat belonging to the other collector in line after me also was purchased from lumberjackkitz.

This is not the first time I've been made aware of this individual. A while back, a local collector purchased a Jim Edmonds bat from him. It was a legit Edmonds model, but the handle tape was way off (it even spiraled in the wrong direction).

A quick search of this forum led me to a thread about lumberjackkitz.
http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=5374&highlight=lumberjackkitz

While many people apparently had positive experiences with him, there was one buyer who had a Jeter that failed PSA/DNA inspection. It was a real bat, but the use was not characteristic of Jeter -- just like Eckstein and Edmonds.

I promised David's sister that I would help spread the word about David's bats. David is a great guy and he really doesn't want his fans getting ripped off by purchasing bats that he never used. So, use caution if you come across an Eckstein Cardinals bat. If it's being offered by a reputable charity or by the Cardinals/MLB, you're probably safe. But, if you don't know the seller, beware of bats with counterfeit use.

kingjammy24
01-17-2007, 06:30 PM
hi jeff,

i'm not a bat guy so bear with me here. i was once told that it's very difficult for the average person to manufacture major-league level use on a bat. (after all, most of us can't hit the leather off 95 mph balls). i realize that anyone can add pine tar, rack marks, cleat marks. convincing ball marks (deep seam marks, leather imprint, etc) are apparently not very easy to add. if light of this, i'd be very curious to know what the counterfeit use/false use characteristics looked like on these bats?

can you post pics? i'd just like to get a handle on what legit use looks like vs contrived use.

thanks,

rudy.

ham1963
01-17-2007, 06:37 PM
Jeff,
Thanks for the heads up I have seen a couple of Cardinal bats that i would not mind having. I have a couple of questions:
1. Did you try to photo match the bat you bought? But if the user (Eckstien) questions the bat maybe something is up.
2. Where did the seller get the bat? I have to agree with you that sometimes if it does not come from the team store or MLB Auctions maybe it should be questioned.
Just some quesions
John

Rboitano
01-17-2007, 06:39 PM
I noticed that that seller lumberjakitz was selling those bats with very questionable use. Every bat he had listed on ebay had the same very small, allmost golf ball size ball marks on the barrel. It looks like every mark was just an ink transfer.

camarokids
01-17-2007, 06:43 PM
hi jeff,

i'm not a bat guy so bear with me here. i was once told that it's very difficult for the average person to manufacture major-league level use on a bat. (after all, most of us can't hit the leather off 95 mph balls). i realize that anyone can add pine tar, rack marks, cleat marks. convincing ball marks (deep seam marks, leather imprint, etc) are apparently not very easy to add. if light of this, i'd be very curious to know what the counterfeit use/false use characteristics looked like on these bats?

can you post pics? i'd just like to get a handle on what legit use looks like vs contrived use.

thanks,

rudy.

I have been told the same thing about the seam marks ,that they are real difficult to fake ,almost impossible (unless) . if someone has a pitching machine and that they are able hit the pitches at a fast enough speed + add some real OML baseballs and pine tar . The almighty dollar ................

Birdbats
01-17-2007, 07:18 PM
On both the Eckstein bat I had signed and the Edmonds bat I mentioned, there was very light use apparent. Ink transfer is visible on both bats, along with a few other ball scuffs, but there are no seam impressions at all. The Eckstein bat also has some black streaks on it.

I don't want to disclose the common characteristic that David said was inconsistent with his use. I'd rather leave the counterfeiters in the dark. I know that doesn't help potential buyers. For what it's worth, I am one of those potential buyers because I don't have an Eckstein bat for my 2006 team collection. If I get the opportunity to buy one, most of my decision will be based on the seller. That's really my message -- if you want an Eckstein bat, buy from a reputable source you can trust. I'm hoping the Cardinals have one or two to auction off next season.

I will disclose that all the bats in question were numbered on the knob by Cardinals clubhouse personnel. How they ended up on eBay is the great unknown.

eGameUsed
01-17-2007, 07:57 PM
Great thread Jeff! I have been looking for a Eckstein and almost bid on one of those. Thanks for the info!

Birdbats
01-17-2007, 08:07 PM
I will disclose that all the bats in question were numbered on the knob by Cardinals clubhouse personnel. How they ended up on eBay is the great unknown.

For accuracy, let me rephrase that to say that the knobs appear to have been numbered by clubhouse personnel. If the numbers also were forged, then the "artist" did a heck of a job. David said the 22 on the knob looks correct.

mlrtme17
01-17-2007, 11:04 PM
Eckstein among many other players don't give their bats away. Does anyone know what they do with them? They cann't possibly keep ALL of them for charity or whatever they do with them. Do they get thrown away?? I am curious to what happens to them if anyone knows.

Oil Can Dan
01-17-2007, 11:51 PM
One thing that's always confused me is that bats apparently have "cleat marks". What is that, exactly? I can't imagine players are actually stepping on bats laying on the ground, so what are those?

mlrtme17
01-17-2007, 11:57 PM
A lot of players knock their cleats with their bats to either knock dirt off the spikes, or some of them just do it as a habit I think.

012562
01-18-2007, 02:03 AM
Quick related story: At the end of the 2003 season, after the last game of the season in Anaheim, Jeff DaVanon was throwing some uncracked bats over the dugout roof to the fans. I was lucky enough to get one of them, and it was a David Eckstein LS. Another person by me also received an Eckstein. I did not see any DaVanon bats in the lot! Thanks Jeff! At least that's how a few of Eckstein's bats go missing!

Tom Duino

pietraynor
01-18-2007, 10:52 AM
I too have a concern over "cleat marks" especially w/ newer model bats..I could see how metal cleats would make marks, but rubber/plastic cleats would be a different matter & that's what a lot of players are wearing recently..Jay