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View Full Version : How do you guys feel about card companies and GU cards?



bigaust001
03-24-2015, 08:15 PM
I have been a long time collector of sports cards, and in today's hobby, a large staple of collecting is game used relics/patches. These can be works of art, but in the end a piece of memorabilia is desecrated. Do you trust the companies as to what they put in the cards being authentic?

Check out some of these:
Patch Showoff Thread (http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/baseball/492542-show-off-your-nice-patches.html)
Flawless Patch Thread (http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/basketball/610185-post-your-sickest-flawless-patches.html)

My fellow board member's collection:
Baseball (http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/baseball/410946-i-thought-id-share-my-sportkings-spectacular-patch-cards-baseball.html)
Football (http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/football/410997-i-thought-id-share-my-sportkings-spectacular-patch-cards-football.html)
Basketball (http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/basketball/320536-i-thought-id-share-my-sportkings-spectacular-patch-cards-basketball.html)

Now, I also have to address this. We, as a forum, have caught the companies using 'fake' jerseys in their products. See here:

Flawless Error (http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/football/797728-wheres-rw-flawless-patch-jersey.html)
Carmelo Fake (from the company of the collection above) (http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/basketball/573889-can-anyone-else-confirm.html)

Has anyone on here ever saw a patch card, and instantly knew it was a fake like the two instances that we have?

Jags Fan Dan
03-25-2015, 07:43 AM
I once saw a Jimmy Smith Jaguars jersey card on eBay with a piece of number patch from a Patriots jersey.

coxfan
03-25-2015, 09:41 AM
Most of the complaints about authenticity and sacrilege, etc. concern baseball and football game-used cards. But I've seen race-used cards with pieces if NASCAR bumpers, and the like. I'm no NASCAR fan, despite living in SC, but I wonder if similar concerns have been raised about cards with that kind of thing. How about the ones with presidential hair-cuttings or cut signatures, etc. Are there similar issues with authenticity and sacrilege there as well?

Jags Fan Dan
03-25-2015, 09:44 AM
Most of the complaints about authenticity and sacrilege, etc. concern baseball and football game-used cards. But I've seen race-used cards with pieces if NASCAR bumpers, and the like. I'm no NASCAR fan, despite living in SC, but I wonder if similar concerns have been raised about cards with that kind of thing. How about the ones with presidential hair-cuttings or cut signatures, etc. Are there similar issues with authenticity and sacrilege there as well?
I can't really say how NASCAR fans would feel about that, but my own opinion is that it is different. A bumper or tire is a piece of a car already, to cut it up doesn't seem to be much worse for it. However, to take an intact jersey and cut it up to me is different.

mad87man
03-25-2015, 09:47 AM
If its a new player or active player by all means go ahead and do it. There are 16 games a season and a chance for 16 new jerseys to be worn. It is NOT messing with anything of real value. I am a jets collector, A Geno Smith sold feom last year for 560$. I wouldn't care at all if It got cut up. But take an old player and a real nice piece and tear it up? No way. Why ruin a gorgeous Joe Namath jersey that may only have 10 out there in the world.

bigaust001
03-25-2015, 10:50 AM
If its a new player or active player by all means go ahead and do it. There are 16 games a season and a chance for 16 new jerseys to be worn. It is NOT messing with anything of real value. I am a jets collector, A Geno Smith sold feom last year for 560$. I wouldn't care at all if It got cut up. But take an old player and a real nice piece and tear it up? No way. Why ruin a gorgeous Joe Namath jersey that may only have 10 out there in the world.

This has been done, repeatedly. There was a Rams jersey of his that was butchered recently, and multiple Jets jerseys have been as well.

NEFAN
03-25-2015, 10:51 AM
I once had a card with a piece of a Superbowl XX football in it. The logo had the gold foil in it, but that was not used on balls that early.

bigaust001
03-25-2015, 11:07 AM
I once had a card with a piece of a Superbowl XX football in it. The logo had the gold foil in it, but that was not used on balls that early.

Can you post a picture of this?

jake33
03-25-2015, 11:08 AM
I mentioned this before, but I would like to see someone file a class action lawsuit against the card companies for game used cards that are blatantly wrong - such as that Patriots fabric on a card of a player that never played for them.

Also, didn't Jared O from JO sports state that he at one point sold fraudulent game used memorabilia to the card companies? From the card companies point of view - Owning fraudulent property in itself is nor illegal, but reselling as jersey cards, that might be a different story.

All the cards carry a similar COA on the back, once you see one wrong, it calls into question the authenticity of every card the companies sell.

Jags Fan Dan
03-25-2015, 12:26 PM
I mentioned this before, but I would like to see someone file a class action lawsuit against the card companies for game used cards that are blatantly wrong - such as that Patriots fabric on a card of a player that never played for them.

Also, didn't Jared O from JO sports state that he at one point sold fraudulent game used memorabilia to the card companies? From the card companies point of view - Owning fraudulent property in itself is nor illegal, but reselling as jersey cards, that might be a different story.

All the cards carry a similar COA on the back, once you see one wrong, it calls into question the authenticity of every card the companies sell.
If the jersey is sold to the card company as an authentic gamer, I wonder what burden of due diligence, if any, is legally required on their part?

Preston
03-26-2015, 03:39 PM
I personally hope they're all fake so that they aren't actually still cutting up REAL game jerseys that we would want to collect and have made available.

teddy406
03-26-2015, 04:27 PM
HATE THEM. Don't cut up VINTAGE jerseys into pieces. Just stupid.

yankees506
03-26-2015, 09:22 PM
I never liked them, but then one day realized that unless I hit the lotto id never be able to own a ruth bat or jersey. For modern stars im fortunate enough to be able to buy full pieces but there are people less fortunate than me. So they can take the same stance I take on the ruth items. Does it suck that vintage stuff is being cut up? Yes, but it's awesome to own a piece of history, no matter how small it is.... If they are real :-)

sportsnbikes
03-27-2015, 08:29 AM
I don't like the idea of taking vintage jerseys and cutting them up. The more they cut up, the less chance I have of owning one some day. The concept was cool in the beginning, but the fraud and the old jerseys being cut up gives me a real distaste for them.

Jayworld
03-27-2015, 02:13 PM
I don't like the idea of taking vintage jerseys and cutting them up. The more they cut up, the less chance I have of owning one some day. The concept was cool in the beginning, but the fraud and the old jerseys being cut up gives me a real distaste for them.

+1 on this. Never have really understood the concept of having a "piece" of a jersey. In the end, something has been destroyed to create a jersey card. It is so common in the modern card hobby (at least since the early-to-mid 1990s I think) but unknown of prior to that. I remember when I got back into baseball cards about 2001 after leaving the hobby back in 1984, and I had to "educate" myself on new terms such as relic, parallel, foil, chrome, jersey card, autograph card, etc.

Much would rather have the complete jersey, cap, pants, etc. Heck, many companies are now cutting up movie props and costumes for cards, too, and facing legitimacy issues as well.

bigaust001
03-27-2015, 04:00 PM
I have just been made aware of this Paul Waner (http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAUL-WANER-BAT-KNOB-1-1-2014-PANINI-NATIONAL-TREASURES-BASEBALL-/141532209848?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item20f3fa22b8&rmvSB=true) bat being an alleged fake. THoughts?

bigaust001
03-27-2015, 04:09 PM
Also posting some of my own research (http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/basketball/795677-sportskings-questionable-jersey-round-2-a.html)

Jags Fan Dan
03-27-2015, 04:14 PM
Wasn't there a bat card with the label of the bat and it showed an underlined 125 from a LVS? I seem to remember a post with that in it on here quite some time ago.

VintageGamerNoob
03-27-2015, 06:27 PM
I have always been so confused by these bat knob cards. People are spending 70% of the price of a legit game-used bat to have one sliver of it on a card.

$305 Utley (http://http://www.ebay.com/itm/2014-Topps-Tribute-Chase-Utley-Game-Used-BAT-KNOB-One-of-One-W-W-Phillies-1-1-/311322632493?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item487c46612d)
$670 McGwire (http://www.ebay.com/itm/2014-National-Treasures-Mark-McGwire-BAT-BARREL-BAT-KNOBS-1-1-Cardinals-/361241023871?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item541ba4957f)
$200 Jay Bruce (http://www.ebay.com/itm/2013-Topps-Tier-One-Jay-Bruce-Game-Used-Bat-Knob-1-1-Cincinnati-Reds-/271807692494?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f49003ece)
$185 for an Aramis Ramirez?!?! (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aramis-Ramirez-2014-Topps-Tier-One-Bat-Knob-1-1-Limited-Time-Offer-Price-/271808957179?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f49138afb)
$338 for one-third of an A-Rod knob (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aramis-Ramirez-2014-Topps-Tier-One-Bat-Knob-1-1-Limited-Time-Offer-Price-/271808957179?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f49138afb)
$500 Robinson Cano (http://www.ebay.com/itm/2014-National-Treasures-Robinson-Cano-Game-used-Bat-Knob-1-1-/261788856630?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cf3d4f136)
And the most baffling: $1000 for a Stanton knob?! (http://www.ebay.com/itm/GIANCARLO-STANTON-2014-Five-Star-game-used-04-13-12-BAT-KNOB-sp-1-1-Marlins-/151616817980?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item234d110b3c)

The first Google result for "2012 game used giancarlo stanton bat" is a 2012 PSA/DNA GU 8 LVS that sold at Goldin in February for $850.

I'm not the only one who thinks this is completely insane, right?

CPuente57
03-27-2015, 09:13 PM
Since I was still a a teenager when Game Used cards first came out, I initially thought they were cool and the holy grail of card collecting. As I got older though, the market became way over flooded (when you're able to afford "game used" cards of guys like Lou Gehrig, Babe Ruth etc..you know it's overflooded) and then I was like "I can get a card with a logoman for this price, or get a certified jersey for either same price or even cheaper". I decided to sell my entire card collection to convert to Game Used. I still visit forums like Blowout Cards, and it boggles my mind how many card collectors could actually care less about the authenticity of the memorabilia used. I see a lot of "I don't care about it being fake or not, as long as it looks cool". To each their own, but using fraudulent items would absolutely turn me off to collecting those kind of cards. Don't understand that kind of thinking at all. And the biggest argument I've heard from card collectors as to why they pay so much for a sliver of something than the whole thing, is they are card collectors and not game used collectors, so they collect for the card aspect. Again, it's all personal preference but for the prices, I'd much rather have a legit whole item, then some questionable small swatch.

Chess2899
03-27-2015, 09:13 PM
I have zero trust in card companies doing the right thing. They finally numbered limited cards after my lawsuit in 1999.

http://espn.go.com/sportsbusiness/s/2003/0714/1580511.html

I regret settling. I should have sunk the whole company. I despise having companies take advantage of collectors. I think bat cards and jersey cards are questionable. Who can prove it?

CPuente57
03-27-2015, 09:14 PM
I have always been so confused by these bat knob cards. People are spending 70% of the price of a legit game-used bat to have one sliver of it on a card.

$305 Utley (http://http://www.ebay.com/itm/2014-Topps-Tribute-Chase-Utley-Game-Used-BAT-KNOB-One-of-One-W-W-Phillies-1-1-/311322632493?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item487c46612d)
$670 McGwire (http://www.ebay.com/itm/2014-National-Treasures-Mark-McGwire-BAT-BARREL-BAT-KNOBS-1-1-Cardinals-/361241023871?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item541ba4957f)
$200 Jay Bruce (http://www.ebay.com/itm/2013-Topps-Tier-One-Jay-Bruce-Game-Used-Bat-Knob-1-1-Cincinnati-Reds-/271807692494?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f49003ece)
$185 for an Aramis Ramirez?!?! (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aramis-Ramirez-2014-Topps-Tier-One-Bat-Knob-1-1-Limited-Time-Offer-Price-/271808957179?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f49138afb)
$338 for one-third of an A-Rod knob (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aramis-Ramirez-2014-Topps-Tier-One-Bat-Knob-1-1-Limited-Time-Offer-Price-/271808957179?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f49138afb)
$500 Robinson Cano (http://www.ebay.com/itm/2014-National-Treasures-Robinson-Cano-Game-used-Bat-Knob-1-1-/261788856630?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cf3d4f136)
And the most baffling: $1000 for a Stanton knob?! (http://www.ebay.com/itm/GIANCARLO-STANTON-2014-Five-Star-game-used-04-13-12-BAT-KNOB-sp-1-1-Marlins-/151616817980?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item234d110b3c)

The first Google result for "2012 game used giancarlo stanton bat" is a 2012 PSA/DNA GU 8 LVS that sold at Goldin in February for $850.

I'm not the only one who thinks this is completely insane, right?

Yeah that's insane..I bought a Stanton MLB Authenticated photomatched HR bat for like 650 last year, and yet a knob card goes for a grand?!

Chess2899
03-27-2015, 09:20 PM
Card companies did not number their limited cards until I launched my lawsuit.


http://espn.go.com/sportsbusiness/s/2003/0714/1580511.html

I regret settling. I had a chance to destroy them. Companies that cheat collectors should not be allowed to function.

How do you prove it with bat and jersey cards? You can't unless you have an inside employee within the company.

Buccaneer Madden
03-27-2015, 09:29 PM
Card companies did not number their limited cards until I launched my lawsuit.


http://espn.go.com/sportsbusiness/s/2003/0714/1580511.html

I regret settling. I had a chance to destroy them. Companies that cheat collectors should not be allowed to function.

How do you prove it with bat and jersey cards? You can't unless you have an inside employee within the company.

I had always thought about doing something like that but never had the funds to try it. Nice to catch somebody in a bold face lie.

At first I was interested in the GU cards but once they became so common and I realized most of them were more "even worn" like for 10 seconds at a practice I lost interest. I'd much rather have the entire jersey / bat even if I have to save up for it.

bigaust001
03-28-2015, 11:16 AM
How do you guys feel about this? Is this a fake?

Aaron Tag Card (http://www.ebay.com/itm/2005-ABSOLUTE-HANK-AARON-TOTT-GAME-USED-JERSEY-LOGO-PATCH-TAG-HAT-BAT-50-BRAVES-/191203039334?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c8496d866)

Tag Database (http://sportstaggingdatabase.yolasite.com/wilson.php)

Is that not a post-76 patch?

bigaust001
03-28-2015, 11:43 AM
Mays Tag (http://www.ebay.com/itm/2005-TIMELESS-TREASURES-WILLIE-MAYS-GAME-USED-BAT-JERSEY-PATCH-TAG-1-1-GIANTS-/201145049388?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ed52de12c)

McCovey Tag (http://www.ebay.com/itm/2014-National-Treasures-Baseball-Willie-McCovey-Laundry-Tag-Logo-Patch-1-1-/161647258959?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25a2ed6d4f)

Cronin Tag (http://www.ebay.com/itm/JOE-CRONIN-2012-NATIONAL-TREASURES-BGS-8-5-LAUNDRY-TAG-GAME-PATCH-1-1-NK076-/361171352897?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item54177d7d41&nma=true&si=cDPGygac0rje0QhK7RC%252FJy9Cjbk%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557)

Clemente Tag (http://www.ebay.com/itm/ROBERTO-CLEMENTE-2012-NATIONAL-TREASURES-36-PIRATES-TAG-LOGO-PATCH-6-6-/361227656992?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item541ad89f20&nma=true&si=cDPGygac0rje0QhK7RC%252FJy9Cjbk%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557)

Baylor Tag (http://www.ebay.com/itm/2009-Topps-Elgin-Baylor-Legendary-Laundry-Tag-Patch-Only-one-in-the-World-1-1-/321672610615?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ae52e8337)

Marino Tag (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dan-Marino-2013-Topps-Supreme-Laundry-Tag-One-of-One-1-of-1-Jumbo-Patch-NFL-/321624064736?pt=US_Football&hash=item4ae249c2e0)

Payton Tag (http://www.ebay.com/itm/2004-04-WALTER-PAYTON-LEAF-CERTIFIED-MIRROR-BLACK-LOGO-TAG-ED-1-1-BGS-9-/221633481704?pt=US_Football&hash=item339a628be8)

Payton Tag 2 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/2013-National-Treasures-Walter-Payton-Century-Materials-Tag-Patch-1-1-/331332670576?pt=US_Football&hash=item4d24f75470)

Brown Tag (http://www.ebay.com/itm/2006-NATIONAL-TREASURES-JIM-BROWN-GAME-USED-JERSEY-LOGO-TAG-PATCH-3-BROWNS-HOF-/191338620132?pt=US_Football&hash=item2c8caba4e4)


Do any of these look off? With the pieces being slaughtered and then placed into the cards, we have limited judgement as to what is legit and what is not. The tag cards are one of the few peeks we get into the jerseys used.

sox83cubs84
03-28-2015, 06:10 PM
How do you guys feel about this? Is this a fake?

Aaron Tag Card (http://www.ebay.com/itm/2005-ABSOLUTE-HANK-AARON-TOTT-GAME-USED-JERSEY-LOGO-PATCH-TAG-HAT-BAT-50-BRAVES-/191203039334?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c8496d866)

Tag Database (http://sportstaggingdatabase.yolasite.com/wilson.php)

Is that not a post-76 patch?

I believe you are correct on that, though it still could have been on a jersey worn by Aaron. In the 1980s, Aaron had jerseys issued to him virtually every year, for Old-Timers Games, occasions to appear in uniform at home, and the like. There were some in 1987, when the big Wilson patch was first used by the Barves, and possibly later, as well. This illustrates another potential boondoggle on these game-used swatches...even if the player ID is accurate, were they worn in an actual career game, or in an Old-Timers game or some sort of similar post-career event?

Dave Miedema

godwulf
03-28-2015, 09:48 PM
I buy memorabilia cards of my favorite players in pretty much exactly the same way I buy non-memorabilia cards: if it's not more than a few bucks and I really like the design, I buy it. I have full bats and jerseys of my favorite players, so to be honest I really couldn't care less whether the little slivers of wood and cloth on these cards are authentic - I buy them because they look cool, period. The most I've ever spent on a memorabilia card is ten bucks, for a three-color Randy Johnson patch card that I really liked the design of. Most I buy for one to three dollars.

bigaust001
04-01-2015, 11:33 AM
I buy memorabilia cards of my favorite players in pretty much exactly the same way I buy non-memorabilia cards: if it's not more than a few bucks and I really like the design, I buy it. I have full bats and jerseys of my favorite players, so to be honest I really couldn't care less whether the little slivers of wood and cloth on these cards are authentic - I buy them because they look cool, period. The most I've ever spent on a memorabilia card is ten bucks, for a three-color Randy Johnson patch card that I really liked the design of. Most I buy for one to three dollars.

I am the same way. I think of it as a decoration.