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Canseco44
12-29-2006, 10:03 AM
Here is another Canseco 1989 World Series gamer that looks strikingly simialar to the one I have the is the one used to hit the 3 run Homerun in game 3 of that Series. I know this is not a photo match but it does have the same marks as mine and looks to be signed in the exact same marker that has faded over the years. I have talked with Juan Iglesias and he confirmed he does remember this bat but we could not come up with a photo match. If anyone has any info please help me out if you can.


Todd Ricks

CansecoPower33
12-29-2006, 03:54 PM
I saw this bat first thing this morning. What's needed here is a crystal clear photo of Jose's 89 WS home run. I'm surprised one hasn't been found yet considering the importance of that game. Does your bat also have that black mark on the barrel?

JasonM33
12-29-2006, 04:10 PM
The bat surelooks like a gamer. The only thing I don't understand is why it doesn't have the "1989 merican League West Cahampions" prnted on it it. I can't find a clear pic of him hitting the home run but I did make these screencaps. The first pic could have been edited in from another at bat but the second one is right before he swung and hit the 3 run HR. What say you all?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/IpreferKeaton/misc/cap001.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/IpreferKeaton/misc/cap002.jpg

Canseco44
12-29-2006, 04:13 PM
Yes, mine has the exact same marks on it and looks exactly the same except mine has the additional inscription 3 run homerun 3rd game. Mine is also 35" long but is 34oz instead of 33oz like the one on ebay. Also mine 33 on the knob is the more common rounded threes instead of the sharp cornered 33 on the ebay one. But in saying that I talked to Juan Iglesias and he said Jose rarely marked his own bats. I didn't notice on the one from ebay, but mine has a cupped barrel. I think this just proves my point that he didn't exclusively use the Coopers that were marked 1989 American League Champions in the World series. While this doesn't prove mine as good as a photo match, I think it certainly does help.

Thanks, Todd

CansecoPower33
12-29-2006, 04:17 PM
I can't see the man in the blue on the wide view. Maybe the close up is edited in. I noticed the lack of a rounded 33 also - even if Canseco rarely marked his own bats, I don't remember seeing a Canseco gamer without rounded numbers. Jason, you getting those shots from a DVD?

JasonM33
12-29-2006, 04:24 PM
The one on ebay is a model C243 too and it is cupped. I've also seen a lot of supposed Cooper gamers that didn't have the 33 written on the handle at all.

Yeah, I'm capping the 1989 World series highlight dvd that came out a while back.

CansecoPower33
12-29-2006, 04:49 PM
Is that the same DVD with the 72-74 WS on it as well? I just ordered that one. I have the 89 Series highlights on tape, and the quality isn't the best for something like this. How far can you zoom on the wide view to see if the American League Champions is on the bat?

Canseco44
12-29-2006, 04:50 PM
If you guys could help me I will post some photos of my bat on the forum. I am having trouble posting them because of there size. If anyone could help me downsize them or tell me what to do I would really appreciate it.

Thanks, Todd

CansecoPower33
12-29-2006, 04:51 PM
I have pics of your bat from your ebay auction. I'll post them if you'd like.

Canseco44
12-29-2006, 04:56 PM
I would really appreciate that. If you could make sure you get the pics of the PSA/DNA sheets on there as well. Do you notice the black marks on both bats. The bats are from the same time frame for sure. I really appreciate your help.

Thanks, Todd Ricks

CansecoPower33
12-29-2006, 05:02 PM
Todd's bat:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f95/joeryan33/7a_3.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f95/joeryan33/71_3.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f95/joeryan33/09_3.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f95/joeryan33/7f_3.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f95/joeryan33/fc_3.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f95/joeryan33/f6_3.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f95/joeryan33/b6_3.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f95/joeryan33/99_3.jpg

The COA:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f95/joeryan33/24_3.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f95/joeryan33/31_3n.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f95/joeryan33/31_3.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f95/joeryan33/7a_3h.jpg

JasonM33
12-29-2006, 05:09 PM
Is that the same DVD with the 72-74 WS on it as well? I just ordered that one. I have the 89 Series highlights on tape, and the quality isn't the best for something like this. How far can you zoom on the wide view to see if the American League Champions is on the bat?

That's the same dvd I have. The dvd is taken from the vhs tape so the quality suffers because of the source. If you zoom in it gets pretty fuzzy. I'll play around with it and see what I can come up with. I'm not very hopefull though.

CansecoPower33
12-29-2006, 05:11 PM
for comparisons sake, the link to the other Canseco 89 WS bat on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/JOSE-CANSECO-GAME-USED-AUTOGRAPHED-1989-WORLD-SERIES_W0QQitemZ180068620192QQihZ008QQcategoryZ605 96QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

My past experiences with Canseco Coopers (got burned on a 243 model) hasn't been all that great. I know the feeling of dread when you see something like this. My advice would be to contact Vince Malta and John Taube, and ask what they based their grading on.

CansecoPower33
12-29-2006, 05:18 PM
That's the same dvd I have. The dvd is taken from the vhs tape so the quality suffers because of the source. If you zoom in it gets pretty fuzzy. I'll play around with it and see what I can come up with. I'm not very hopefull though.

It'd be great if you could get something to work with.

I see this was posted on another forum - http://gameusedbats.blogspot.com/ - Taube and Malta's blog, the latest dealing specifically with grading World Series bats. I'd definitely get in touch with them about the bat.

JasonM33
12-29-2006, 05:32 PM
This is the best I can get from the dvd. It's far from conclusive but you can make out 3 seperate black areas right where they should be. The first would be "Cooper" the second could be"1989 AL West Champions" The third would be Canseco's name and the bats model number. Of course the black area in the middle could just be a ball mark or a shadow. However the length and positioning makes me think it could be the AL West Champions. Like I said it's far from conclusive but what do you all think?

Todd What did Juan say about your bat?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/IpreferKeaton/misc/WScap1.jpg

Canseco44
12-29-2006, 05:36 PM
I have sent out emails to Canseco, Jim Ames, and John Taube concerning this bat. When or if I hear from them I will let you know. When I talked to Juan he said he did remember this bat but that was about it. He did try to help me photo match it with no luck. If he sees this on the forum maybe he will give his thoughts. Thanks for everyone's help.


Todd

JasonM33
12-29-2006, 05:41 PM
For reference I'll post this pic from a recent ebay auction. If the owner wants me to remove his pic let me know and i'll do it promptly.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/IpreferKeaton/Canseco89ALCSbat1.jpg

CansecoPower33
12-29-2006, 05:44 PM
Difficult to say one way or the other, but it does look like three markings where you'd expect them to be.

Canseco44
12-29-2006, 05:45 PM
This is actually my bat and auction. The bat was not game used but game issued. It was the exact same bat almost.

Thanks Todd

JasonM33
12-29-2006, 05:55 PM
I have in my collection a Cooper Jose Canseco bat model 243. I'm assuming that the model C243 denotes that it is cupped. I've also seen a model C243R. I don't know what that stands for.

kingjammy24
12-29-2006, 05:55 PM
while i realize this is somewhat irrelevant to this whole discussion, there's something in the GFC/PSA/DNA LOA that strikes me as odd.

"The model number, length, and weight specifications have been confirmed by the manufacturer's ordering records as being ordered by the player..."

taube, malta, or gfc have access to Cooper ordering records?

rudy.

JasonM33
12-29-2006, 05:57 PM
I noticed that too. I though Cooper records weren't available.

-Jason M

CansecoPower33
12-29-2006, 06:08 PM
I have in my collection a Cooper Jose Canseco bat model 243. I'm assuming that the model C243 denotes that it is cupped. I've also seen a model C243R. I don't know what that stands for.

My game issued C243 wasn't cupped. No idea what the R means.

CansecoPower33
12-29-2006, 06:26 PM
Scratch that, you're probably right. No C marked on the uncupped bat.

Canseco44
12-29-2006, 07:09 PM
I haven't heard back from anyone yet but I do thank everyone for their help. I am being optimistic about it but it looks like I may never find concrete evidence. I think John Taube will be the link I am looking for. I do have Canseco game bats for sale if anyone would like a list or photos. Let me know.


Thanks, Todd

sylbry
12-29-2006, 07:12 PM
Someone correct me if I am wrong but I believe Cooper used Louisville Slugger's bat model numbers. A Cooper C243 is the same as a Louisville Slugger C243 and if I remember right the C243 was Rod Carew's personal model.

CansecoPower33
12-29-2006, 07:30 PM
I haven't heard back from anyone yet but I do thank everyone for their help. I am being optimistic about it but it looks like I may never find concrete evidence. I think John Taube will be the link I am looking for. I do have Canseco game bats for sale if anyone would like a list or photos. Let me know.


Thanks, Todd

Shoot me an email with the list and I'll have a look.

JasonM33
12-29-2006, 08:01 PM
Hey Todd. I forgot your email address. Please send me you bats for sale list.

Thanks bro.

jmeekins33@qwest.net

Canseco44
12-29-2006, 08:18 PM
I will just list them on the forum:

1. 2006 Rawlings Big Stick Canseco Model JC33 w/COA from Golden Baseball League Comm. Game Issued No Use Unsigned $200

2. Glomar Tampa Bay Devil Rays Pro-Model G-456B Lots of Use and Signed Jose Canseco #33 Gamer Number on Both ends $250

3. Glomar Boston Red Sox Pro-Model JC433 Unsigned Cracked handle and tons of Use Number on both ends $225

4. Rawlings Big Stick Canseco Model Cracked handle signed Jose Canseco #33 Yankees Gamer comes with COA from Canseco $350

These are the few I am selling now, and if I can get a photo match I will be selling the World Series Bat. All the prices include Shipping and insurance. Email me at spideyman79@yahoo.com with questions

Canseco44
12-29-2006, 08:57 PM
I heard back from John Taube and this is what he had to say. Let me hear what everyone thinks about it.


Todd,

Canseco auto'd and inscribed the bat as being his HR bat from the World Series. It's a regular season gamer that was used in the World Series. If you check Getty Images, you'll see that Canseco was using Cooper bats. Canseco signed several bats throughout his career as HR bats, a few of which I actually saw photo matches for. In the case of your bat, I did not have a photo match but have every reason to believe the inscription is correct. Go the Getty and type in Jose Canseco 1989.

JasonM33
12-30-2006, 05:24 AM
At this point I think you have to say it's the real deal. Canseco labeled it as the home run bat. A trusted authenticator like John Taube thinks it's the real deal. The use and inscription are exactly how it should look. So, it's real unless Canseco is either mistaken or lying. Those two senarios are possible I doubt that's the case.

I'd feel better about it if the LOA from Canseco was an original instead of a copy. The dvd screen cap from the highlight video gave me a little bit of doubt. However, I know for a fact that they edit those highlight videos with closeups from different at bats. They did in the 1988 video. Also the person in blue behind him in the close up seems not to be there in the wide shot.

Bottom line. There is no conclusive evidence proving that it isn't the bat nor is any likely to surface. The only way to prove that it is the bat with 100% certainty is to photomatch it. I doubt we'll ever be able to photomatch it but you never know.

The only other things I can think of is to.......

A. Talk to Canseco himself about the bat if possible

B. Try to get our hands on a tape of game three in it's entirety exactly as it aired in 1989 and see what we can find.

That's my 2 cents worth.

-Jason M

CansecoPower33
12-30-2006, 07:04 AM
As of now, I don't think the status of your bat should be affected in any way by the bat on ebay. There is, or was, no home run inscription on that bat, no claim by the seller that it was the home run bat from Game 3, and no more evidence to support it being so. Your bat is the only one we know of that comes with Canseco's home run inscription. I can't say I like the sharp "33" on the knob of the ebay bat either, whether that makes much difference. Between that bat and yours, I'd have more faith in yours being the 89 home run bat.

Still, you're left in a somewhat uneasy position, despite John Taube's reassurances. I understand he has good standing within the collecting community, but his response doesn't help put this case to rest. It's simply not enough to point to the photos on Getty and the bat inscription, and say that the bat is unquestionably the home run bat. That leaves too much doubt in the mind, and we enter the area of likelihood and probability.

Considering the importance of the game, I find it hard to believe there are no photographic records of that home run. Jason suggests attempting to obtain the full broadcast of the game, which may go some ways to providing the evidence needed. My secondary suggestion would be to contact the various agencies and newpapers covering the game. I don't know how cooperative they'd be, but there has to be photos of the at bat and home run. Maybe I'm being overly optimistic, but it's worth a shot.

How good is your relationship with Jose? If he's willing, definitely ask for his help.

Canseco44
12-30-2006, 10:44 AM
Thanks, I wasn't trying to prove that the ebay bat wasn't the homerun bat, I was just noting the simialarites between the two which are supposed to be from the same World Series. And I was trying to point out that not only the League Champion bats were used during that series. I tend to agree that my bat is the real deal but I cannot sale it and get a fair price for it on my beliefs, so it will probably remain in my collection. I am still waiting to hear from Ames or Canseco. I do have many more bats that I may soon sale so if anyone has anything specific they are looking for let me know. Thanks to everyone for their help. I am curious to see if the ebay bat will get a bid considering mine did not at under $1000. Happy New Year to everyone.


Todd

CansecoPower33
12-30-2006, 11:07 AM
Considering your bat never got a bid at under 1K, I don't see this one getting any bids for that money, especially not at this time of year. I wish you all the best in finding the match - would make it a treasure.