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ShaimOnYou
09-13-2014, 01:47 PM
Do any of you wonder how Legendary Auctions is going to keep their doors open once all of the principles running it are sentenced? I believe every one with the exception of Ron Oser has plead guilty to fraud against collectors or some kind of crime related to the hobby. Doug Allen, Mark Theotikos, William Boehm, and of course the Original owner and mastermind of taking the collectors to the laundromat, Bill Mastro, are all preparing to serve time.

The case of Doug Allen is particularly comical. He thought he would outsmart the the FBI, so he alerted a huge investor in Legendary to "clean house" before the feds raided it, coached his friend/investor on how to answer questions because, as he alerted him, "I'll be wearing a wire", but then had that investor "friend" pants him in front of the FBI by turning on him and wearing a wire himself to bust Allen but good on the rebound. What a group of model citizens, huh?

Good thing for Mr. Oser he is a clean guy and never decided to participate in illegal practices against the hobbyists.

:rolleyes:

Or not. He was just maybe smarter or luckier, who knows.

So what happens to Legendary? Is someone else going to step up to the plate and take the wheel of Satan's Limousine Service as they continue to drive us all through the sports memorabilia auctions minefield?

Or, are we about to lose one of the biggest players in the industry for good?

Chris

Chess2899
09-14-2014, 12:07 AM
They are about to get slammed again. This time it may be fatal.
We are seeing the period where Auction houses are no longer in protective havens. FBI is quick to act on tips. Auction houses will have to remain clean. There are various Task Forces with active Enforcement in place.

I think it is great for the hobby.

Wrigley2010
09-14-2014, 12:43 AM
It is 100% great for the hobby. While the game used world will take a blow to its' credibility initially it will come out stronger in the end. We will all benefit from this.

BVC
09-16-2014, 10:10 AM
As long as collectors "need stuff", auction houses will do whatever it takes to provide it, making as much profit as they possibly can while dealing with the risks of activities they know can increase their profits. The Feds have shown with Legendary that there will now be more of a risk that you'll be caught, and there is a penalty (interesting to see what that actually will be). As you say, there is no system for monitoring things, so if other auction houses think they can continue to get away with it, they will do so (see MLB, ped penalties, continued use, etc). It's formulaic.

Legendary will survive - why wouldn't it? Have you seen how many auction houses have started up in the last few years? Legendary already has a working infrastructure and they obviously are still getting consignors and making sales. My thinking is that things will get better for them.

These celebratory rants are getting kind of old - I think everyone is aware by now of what Doug and others did and you really can't settle old grudges through these kind of threads (ask the Prime Minister). All that's left at this point is to have parties outside the prison.

ChrisCavalier
09-18-2014, 03:34 PM
As long as collectors "need stuff", auction houses will do whatever it takes to provide it, making as much profit as they possibly can while dealing with the risks of activities they know can increase their profits.
With all due respect, I 100% DISAGREE with this as a blanket statement. Specifically, I have been working for Ken Goldin for almost two years now and I can tell you Ken goes way above and beyond what most would expect in trying to determine if something is truly legitimate. In fact, I know for a fact that we kick out many items that we know full well will end up for sale elsewhere in the secondary market.

Please note that I understand the frustrations on the part of collectors in an industry that has been largely unregulated for many years. However, I think it is important to recognize that there are some who are trying to do everything possible to make sure they are not associated with questionable items. Btw, while I know it means forfeiting short-term revenue, one of the main reasons I work for Ken is his constant commitment to trying to do the right thing in this area.

Again, just wanted to make sure it is clear that there are companies, like Goldin, that work really hard not to succumb to compromising for short-term profit.

-Chris

sox83cubs84
09-18-2014, 04:33 PM
With all due respect, I 100% DISAGREE with this as a blanket statement. Specifically, I have been working for Ken Goldin for almost two years now and I can tell you Ken goes way above and beyond what most would expect in trying to determine if something is truly legitimate. In fact, I know for a fact that we kick out many items that we know full well will end up for sale elsewhere in the secondary market.

Please note that I understand the frustrations on the part of collectors in an industry that has been largely unregulated for many years. However, I think it is important to recognize that there are some who are trying to do everything possible to make sure they are not associated with questionable items. Btw, while I know it means forfeiting short-term revenue, one of the main reasons I work for Ken is his constant commitment to trying to do the right thing in this area.

Again, just wanted to make sure it is clear that there are companies, like Goldin, that work really hard not to succumb to compromising for short-term profit.

-Chris

Chris:

I fully agree with you. I would say the same for Huggins & Scott, as well.

Dave Miedema

BVC
09-18-2014, 05:16 PM
With all due respect, I 100% DISAGREE with this as a blanket statement. Specifically, I have been working for Ken Goldin for almost two years now and I can tell you Ken goes way above and beyond what most would expect in trying to determine if something is truly legitimate. In fact, I know for a fact that we kick out many items that we know full well will end up for sale elsewhere in the secondary market.

Please note that I understand the frustrations on the part of collectors in an industry that has been largely unregulated for many years. However, I think it is important to recognize that there are some who are trying to do everything possible to make sure they are not associated with questionable items. Btw, while I know it means forfeiting short-term revenue, one of the main reasons I work for Ken is his constant commitment to trying to do the right thing in this area.

Again, just wanted to make sure it is clear that there are companies, like Goldin, that work really hard not to succumb to compromising for short-term profit.

-Chris

Chris, I should have said "most". Obviously not all auction houses are going to cheat or be misleading; however, I have been dealing with misleading item titles and descriptions for years, even from honest auction houses. I could give you countless examples of items that even an experienced collector could have been mislead by the information provided, but a novice who simply wanted something cool and trusted the description, could end up paying way too much for if bidding against the wrong person.

But I did unwittingly provide you another opportunity to toss in an advertisement, so all should be good :)

BVC
09-18-2014, 05:20 PM
Chris:

I fully agree with you. I would say the same for Huggins & Scott, as well.

Dave Miedema

Dave, I did not read your post until after I had posted mine. I can't imagine anyone saying that about H&S after the recent debacle with the 'Fleetwood Walker', 'Amos Rusie' and 'Joe Jackson' multi-player photos. That stuff was unforgivable and needs to stop. The misleading descriptions and titles that I was referring to are much less dangerous to the hobby, although still a bad thing (in my opinion).

As an addendum, if Chris ever reads other boards, I'm sure he has seen my plugs for Ken's photo-matching game-used stuff. That's a huge step forward for auction houses and hopefully others will follow his lead.

sox83cubs84
09-19-2014, 03:36 PM
Dave, I did not read your post until after I had posted mine. I can't imagine anyone saying that about H&S after the recent debacle with the 'Fleetwood Walker', 'Amos Rusie' and 'Joe Jackson' multi-player photos. That stuff was unforgivable and needs to stop. The misleading descriptions and titles that I was referring to are much less dangerous to the hobby, although still a bad thing (in my opinion).

As an addendum, if Chris ever reads other boards, I'm sure he has seen my plugs for Ken's photo-matching game-used stuff. That's a huge step forward for auction houses and hopefully others will follow his lead.

I never heard about that issue. Pleaase email me privately with details.

Dave Miedema
sox83cubs84@hotmail.com

ShaimOnYou
09-20-2014, 10:15 AM
Chris:

I fully agree with you. I would say the same for Huggins & Scott, as well.

Dave Miedema

I understand you authenticate many of their items, Mr. Miedema, but you need to be careful who you get into the sack with. Blanket statements of support are troublesome. You'll always get let down.

http://haulsofshame.com/blog/?p=33375#more-33375

ShaimOnYou
09-20-2014, 10:29 AM
Dave, I did not read your post until after I had posted mine. I can't imagine anyone saying that about H&S after the recent debacle with the 'Fleetwood Walker', 'Amos Rusie' and 'Joe Jackson' multi-player photos. That stuff was unforgivable and needs to stop. The misleading descriptions and titles that I was referring to are much less dangerous to the hobby, although still a bad thing (in my opinion).

As an addendum, if Chris ever reads other boards, I'm sure he has seen my plugs for Ken's photo-matching game-used stuff. That's a huge step forward for auction houses and hopefully others will follow his lead.

In my experience I have found that auction houses displaying a "photo-matched" item typically were hand fed that visual provenance. I am not speaking for Goldin Auctions because I don't have knowledge as to the depth of authentication they participate in themselves. If they do participate in searches for better provenance, then kudos to them.

Most auction house employees that participate in the "write-ups" of the individual items may do a quick bit of research, but all-in-all it's minimal as there just isn't time to research every item. And in my honest opinion, that's shameful. There's time enough to rake in the big bucks selling the stuff, but no time to properly authenticate the items they're getting rich off of? That is one of my biggest problems with the hobby. And the main reason why collectors need to live by the old adage "Do your own homework".

But in regards to almost all of the items you see in general listed in auctions, usually the consignor is the one who hands over the photo-match provenance on an item-to-item basis. The auction houses then posts it as it helps the cause for both.

BVC
09-20-2014, 11:46 AM
In my experience I have found that auction houses displaying a "photo-matched" item typically were hand fed that visual provenance. I am not speaking for Goldin Auctions because I don't have knowledge as to the depth of authentication they participate in themselves. If they do participate in searches for better provenance, then kudos to them.

Most auction house employees that participate in the "write-ups" of the individual items may do a quick bit of research, but all-in-all it's minimal as there just isn't time to research every item. And in my honest opinion, that's shameful. There's time enough to rake in the big bucks selling the stuff, but no time to properly authenticate the items they're getting rich off of? That is one of my biggest problems with the hobby. And the main reason why collectors need to live by the old adage "Do your own homework".

But in regards to almost all of the items you see in general listed in auctions, usually the consignor is the one who hands over the photo-match provenance on an item-to-item basis. The auction houses then posts it as it helps the cause for both.

I agree completely, but I know that Ken understands the importance of photo-matching to the hobby better than most;i.e-keeping the hobby reputable in spite of things like the Eli Manning fiasco, and so goes to extra lengths to provide photo-matches for his items. Many AH's still don't get it, and just accept stuff with faulty provenance, or, as you say, take the photo-matches that are given to them.

For modern game-used there is no excuse for the NFL not providing photo matches for EVERYTHING they sell. There are ways to do this that will certainly involve more overhead, but the payoff would make up for it. We just have to demand it. I would love to see ONE team take the lead on this, providing a model for the rest. If successful, all others would be forced to do the same.

ShaimOnYou
11-21-2014, 04:21 PM
So it starts.

Like rats running from the burning warehouse.

ShaimOnYou
11-21-2014, 04:29 PM
And what's this all about?

They guesstimated this jersey could reach $3,000,000.

$175,000 doesn't cut it, so just extend the auction until the 18th of December?

I guess when your doors are closing so you can go sit in the pokie, you might as well do whatever you want.

Shameful while in business, pitifully shameful closing the doors.

BVC
11-21-2014, 04:49 PM
The Gretzky jersey extension is ridiculous. They photo-matched it in the original description so there was no need for this, other than to get more bids. It's not the way an auction should be run, and if it's any indication of their non-Doug Allen future, they are in big trouble.

ShaimOnYou
11-21-2014, 05:06 PM
The Gretzky jersey extension is ridiculous. They photo-matched it in the original description so there was no need for this, other than to get more bids. It's not the way an auction should be run, and if it's any indication of their non-Doug Allen future, they are in big trouble.

It IS the way an auction house runs when they don't SHILL BID. And this result shows exactly why they used to use that illegal practice.

You've got to hand it to them, they are creative in their ways to "maximize" hammer prices.

When I first saw the closing (or what should have been the closing price) of the jersey, it immediately hit me that top hockey bidders aren't "sold" on the photo-matches. Maybe there was something identified that questions whether it could be the same jersey or not, and the matches they did find are considered to be marks and repairs that would be easy to duplicate, hence questionable? I don't know, and I haven't spent a second of my own time researching this jersey or it's photo-matches. But $175K is around the continent and across a few oceans from $3 mil, so something is obviously amiss. Maybe it was just their judgement as to what collectors of top hockey jerseys would pay?

Something tells me that's not it. Let's see what Meigray can come up with.

ShaimOnYou
11-21-2014, 05:36 PM
Here is Legendary's release on why they extended the jersey auction:


Legendary Auctions has made an unprecedented decision to extend the bidding on the 1979-80 Wayne Gretzky Rookie Jersey in our current auction to allow our staff and the MeiGray Authentication team to do additional research.
A Wayne Gretzky Rookie jersey is a historic item. The authentication of this jersey started in September and culminated on October 27th at which time Letter of Authenticity and Certificate of Registration was issued. Since this time both MeiGray and our staff have received additional information regarding the history and provenance of the jersey, and fielded inquiries regarding the availability of photo matches of the back of the jersey. Due to the fact that clear full back shots from this season are nearly impossible to find, the authentication process fell short of offering this match.
Our authentication partner MeiGray has gained access to two historic photo archives, which we hope will offer us the ability to produce a conclusive photo match and afford us the time to nail down the history and provenance of the jersey. These are the final pieces of the authentication puzzle. To that end the auction of this item has been extended to Thursday, December 18th.
Please watch the website as we will offer new information as it becomes available.

It appears the high-end collectors in the hobby demand solid proof of both sides of the jersey before they commit the dough.

Imagine that, collectors with brains demanding proper authentication of the items they (are about to) buy? :cool:

BVC
11-21-2014, 06:12 PM
Struggling to stay afloat after the recent imprisonments, I don't think Legendary can afford for a high-profile item to sell for that much below their estimate (high bid of $175,000 vs estimate of $500,000).

So they made up some baloney and extended the auction.

Roady
11-21-2014, 08:28 PM
Struggling to stay afloat after the recent imprisonments, I don't think Legendary can afford for a high-profile item to sell for that much below their estimate (high bid of $175,000 vs estimate of $500,000).

So they made up some baloney and extended the auction.
Bingo.
And I would imagine that some bidders are not bidding on it because of their reputation.

ShaimOnYou
11-21-2014, 11:31 PM
Bingo.
And I would imagine that some bidders are not bidding on it because of their reputation.

Not if they truly believe it's photo-matched. Obviously something is amiss regarding the jersey.

That's a special one-of-a-kind museum piece, if it's authentic. The auction house's reputation won't make a bit of difference to anyone wanting the piece. Add to that it's probably never been a safer time to bid in their auction as all FED eyes are on them.

Roady
11-22-2014, 12:30 AM
Not if they truly believe it's photo-matched. Obviously something is amiss regarding the jersey.

That's a special one-of-a-kind museum piece, if it's authentic. The auction house's reputation won't make a bit of difference to anyone wanting the piece. Add to that it's probably never been a safer time to bid in their auction as all FED eyes are on them.
I wouldn't let them make a dime off of me even if it is photo matched.

BVC
11-22-2014, 02:27 PM
Not if they truly believe it's photo-matched. Obviously something is amiss regarding the jersey.

That's a special one-of-a-kind museum piece, if it's authentic. The auction house's reputation won't make a bit of difference to anyone wanting the piece. Add to that it's probably never been a safer time to bid in their auction as all FED eyes are on them.

Agreed - people have to have their stuff. But there might also be a fear that they would pay for it and not actually get it, due to Legendary's current problems. I don't know what the jersey is worth, but maybe the $500,000 was too optimistic?

Phil316
11-22-2014, 08:57 PM
If I am looking to sell a legit item like a Gretzky first year in the NHL, 2nd with the Edmonton Oilers why would you not go big and get Classic Auctions or Goldin Auctions. I know both Classic and Goldin do a great job advertising and I know legendary does not. Seems weird.

Also in the past few years I have seen 3 or 4 reproductions come up for auction with the correct tagging, numbers, fight strap everything.

ShaimOnYou
11-22-2014, 11:58 PM
If I am looking to sell a legit item like a Gretzky first year in the NHL, 2nd with the Edmonton Oilers why would you not go big and get Classic Auctions or Goldin Auctions. I know both Classic and Goldin do a great job advertising and I know legendary does not. Seems weird.

Also in the past few years I have seen 3 or 4 reproductions come up for auction with the correct tagging, numbers, fight strap everything.

I have no knowledge of this, but that's what I'm talking about.

Without a photo-match of the back of the jersey, maybe the big bidders are staying clear because they can't be certain this isn't a "repo" with added game use done really well to match the photos?

Of course we're speculating as to what the problem is, but obviously the bidders aren't satisfied with what they've been offered for authenticity (easy for me to say as I'm not the one who bid $175,000. That's one heck of a LOT of faith when you stop and think about it, but it still doesn't make the jersey authentic if it's not).

Phil316
11-23-2014, 02:51 AM
Here is a link to some of those replica's.

http://www.classicauctions.net/Default.aspx?tabid=546&keywords=1979+gretzky+jersey&closed=true

commando
11-23-2014, 11:19 AM
Here is a link to some of those replica's.

http://www.classicauctions.net/Default.aspx?tabid=546&keywords=1979+gretzky+jersey&closed=true

Your link led to another Gretzky rookie sweater that Classic auctioned back in 2005, almost exactly nine years ago:

http://www.classicauctions.net/Default.aspx?tabid=263&auctionid=23&lotid=23

That jersey was consigned by an Oilers employee of the day who had owned it since acquiring it directly from the team all those years ago. The final bid was $126,365.00.

Many will say that the current $175,000 bid is more than reasonable considering the strength of today's market, blah blah blah... And I agree with that opinion too. 175K plus commission is some nice cash.

BVC
11-23-2014, 02:15 PM
Your link led to another Gretzky rookie sweater that Classic auctioned back in 2005, almost exactly nine years ago:

http://www.classicauctions.net/Default.aspx?tabid=263&auctionid=23&lotid=23

That jersey was consigned by an Oilers employee of the day who had owned it since acquiring it directly from the team all those years ago. The final bid was $126,365.00.

Many will say that the current $175,000 bid is more than reasonable considering the strength of today's market, blah blah blah... And I agree with that opinion too. 175K plus commission is some nice cash.

If the $175K was reasonable, perhaps the photo-matching provided, was as well.

Oddly, I was reminded yesterday that a lot of collectors don't completely understand what photo-matching even means. A younger collector named Brock, who apparently participates here, didn't understand that it's not just about marks. Odd threads, stitching, positioning of hand-applied decals, etc., can also be used for photo-matching. The photo-matching might not be perfect, but if there is solid provenance it might be enough. From what I can tell, there is nothing on the Gretzky jersey to photo-match except some smudges that, as others have mentioned, could easily be added to a jersey.

BVC
11-23-2014, 02:17 PM
Sucks to not be able to edit posts here, but to elaborate on my first sentence above - I'm just saying that the $175K bid possibly reflects positive bidder confidence, not that such confidence is well-founded. After all, it only takes two bidders.

ShaimOnYou
11-23-2014, 08:00 PM
I guess I did it again. (holding head down in shame)

I posted here and admin has deleted my post. I apparently made a few (joking) references that included references to fraud. I'm going to leave out the funny stuff and try to carefully get my one point across by posting it again, in a much cleaned-up version. Even in fun, it's easy to break the rules of the forum and that was not my intention. Thanks for understanding, admin.

Attempt #2.

Has anyone thought about the fact there is supposed to be a bidder out there who has placed a bid and, under the rules of the auction house as printed in their own words, WON this jersey for $175,000, but has been denied his win because principals of Legendary auctions decided that wasn't enough?

I mean, where is the outrage from this bidder? He rightfully won the jersey! And NOW they're going to nix his bid and do more research while they extend the auction to hopefully get more for the jersey??

Does anyone find what these pricipals did to be wrongful to the point it may elicit legal action from the bidder who was in position to win against Legendary Auctions?

ShaimOnYou
11-23-2014, 08:10 PM
I wouldn't let them make a dime off of me even if it is photo matched.

Roady,

Collectors going after museum pieces like this, assuming we're talking about one that is proven to be authentic, can't play the noble card when they appear.

Charles Manson could be selling it, and if you're a collector and you WANT it because it's the gaping void white whale of your hockey collection, you're going to go after it.

That said, I do appreciate your position and support where your "heart" is.

Roady
11-23-2014, 08:17 PM
Roady,

Collectors going after museum pieces like this, assuming we're talking about one that is proven to be authentic, can't play the noble card when they appear.

Charles Manson could be selling it, and if you're a collector and you WANT it because it's the gaping void white whale of your hockey collection, you're going to go after it.

That said, I do appreciate your position and support where your "heart" is.
Everyone makes a choice.

BarryMeisel
11-24-2014, 12:14 AM
Hi everybody,

Please stop the incorrect speculation. None of it is correct.

MeiGray issued registration for this jersey after Legendary asked us to authenticate it.

As our letter of registration clearly stated, we believe the jersey is matched to the photo referenced. But in our letter we stopped short of calling this a conclusive photo match because of the quality of the photo ...

We then received more information from a variety of sources, including collectors and other in the hockey collecting community. We reached out to reference sources to try and find the original photo we had used for the potential match, and learned that it might be in an archive and available for closer review.

Each source was eager to assist with information in an attempt to ascertain of the photo match could be proven conclusively, or if new research information could help us with our registration.

MeiGray recommended to Legendary that our research needed more time, something we should have said even before we received additional information from the hockey collecting community. That was our mistake, and one we felt we could correct in the context of collectors and potential bidders requesting more information and a clearer determination of whether this jersey has been conclusively matched.

MeiGray recommended that the additional information could assist in potentially proving the photo match.

MeiGray requested that the auction be extended.

Legendary agreed that it would be in the best interests of everybody, including the bidders and the consignor, to let MeiGray continue its research based on the new information that was offered after we issued our original registration.

We understand that speculation and rumors and innuendo come with the territory. But the fact is that the hockey collecting community, including the bidders who have already bid and some who had asked for more conclusive information on this jersey before they choose to bid or not bid, want more exhaustive research done.

So does the consignor. So does Legendary. So does MeiGray.

Respectfully,

Barry

Roady
11-24-2014, 09:42 AM
Should have sold it to the high bidder after the auction ended and not extended it.
The bidders were bidding on the auction that was listed not some other more comprehensive auction that may come along later.
Doing the right thing is easily identified by most people.

ShaimOnYou
11-24-2014, 12:35 PM
Hi everybody,

Please stop the incorrect speculation. None of it is correct.

MeiGray issued registration for this jersey after Legendary asked us to authenticate it.

As our letter of registration clearly stated, we believe the jersey is matched to the photo referenced. But in our letter we stopped short of calling this a conclusive photo match because of the quality of the photo ...

We then received more information from a variety of sources, including collectors and other in the hockey collecting community. We reached out to reference sources to try and find the original photo we had used for the potential match, and learned that it might be in an archive and available for closer review.

Each source was eager to assist with information in an attempt to ascertain of the photo match could be proven conclusively, or if new research information could help us with our registration.

MeiGray recommended to Legendary that our research needed more time, something we should have said even before we received additional information from the hockey collecting community. That was our mistake, and one we felt we could correct in the context of collectors and potential bidders requesting more information and a clearer determination of whether this jersey has been conclusively matched.

MeiGray recommended that the additional information could assist in potentially proving the photo match.

MeiGray requested that the auction be extended.

Legendary agreed that it would be in the best interests of everybody, including the bidders and the consignor, to let MeiGray continue its research based on the new information that was offered after we issued our original registration.

We understand that speculation and rumors and innuendo come with the territory. But the fact is that the hockey collecting community, including the bidders who have already bid and some who had asked for more conclusive information on this jersey before they choose to bid or not bid, want more exhaustive research done.

So does the consignor. So does Legendary. So does MeiGray.

Respectfully,

Barry

I agree with Roady.

Barry,

I think it takes a lot of gonadinal fortitude to come on here and chastise us collectors for your "mistake". We draw our conclusions based on the vast knowledge we have from our years of dealing with all the characters in the hobby, your company and you being in the mix.

I, for one, don't feel our "speculation" was all that far off the mark. Maybe we didn't hit the exact reason on the nose, but we did the best we could under the public info given. I even posted exactly what Legendary put out as the reason.

You actually expect us to believe the top bidder at $175,000 wanted the auction "extended"? Laughable. No. It's all about you guys blowing your own horn and maximizing dollars and exposure on the jersey. The fact you didn't get it together before the piece was auctioned off was disgraceful.

In regards to the extent of research, ALL of you on the auction side of the business are to blame for putting this jersey out without exhaustive research COMPLETED. So please don't come out here on your high horse and tell us the way we should be, or what we should stop. We make an educated decision based on all the facts we have at our disposal, and most of us know exactly what's going on. You guys? You just make up your rules as you go along, with no governing board to see that you are following any special "rules".

Now I suppose you're going to come back on here and tell us the urgency to get the jersey to auction was because of "extenuating circumstances out of our control", namely that your clients are all off to go do time in some form of prison.

And that's more laughable than anything. Good day, sir.

Chris

BVC
11-24-2014, 01:37 PM
It was good to hear Barry's additional explanation, but he shouldn't have led with that first sentence. Auction houses should welcome discussion and speculation - it's good feedback for improvement.

'No discussion' means nobody cares, which means fewer future consignments of big items.

BarryMeisel
11-24-2014, 04:32 PM
Hi everybody,

I apologize if any of you mistook my first sentence as "chastisizing." I did not mean it that way. I only meant it as a direct response to the speculation of who was responsible for the auction being delayed and extended.

MeiGray has always appreciated comments and criticism and discussion of facts known and things we do.

The purpose of my post was to explain what has happened, and what is happening.

We will continue to do so regarding this situation.

Respectfully,

Barry

ChrisCavalier
11-24-2014, 07:11 PM
Hi everybody,

I apologize if any of you mistook my first sentence as "chastisizing." I did not mean it that way. I only meant it as a direct response to the speculation of who was responsible for the auction being delayed and extended.

MeiGray has always appreciated comments and criticism and discussion of facts known and things we do.
I will add that in knowing Barry personally, that has been my experience with him. That is, Barry has always responded to questions and has tried to keep collectors informed when information is requested.

Thank you Barry for taking the time to explain the situation and I hope you will continue to keep us apprised of the situation.

Sincerely,
Chris

ShaimOnYou
11-24-2014, 08:58 PM
Hi everybody,

I apologize if any of you mistook my first sentence as "chastisizing." I did not mean it that way. I only meant it as a direct response to the speculation of who was responsible for the auction being delayed and extended.

MeiGray has always appreciated comments and criticism and discussion of facts known and things we do.

The purpose of my post was to explain what has happened, and what is happening.

We will continue to do so regarding this situation.

Respectfully,

Barry

Barry,

Thank you for the upstanding response. Hopefully I speak for many when I say it was well received. I would respectfully argue that "what has happened" is still unexplained, but we'll get to that.

It is also commendable of you to shoulder the blame for the extension of the auction of the Gretzky jersey.

But Meigray was not the one running the auction. Legendary Auctions was.

They are to blame as it was 100% their auction, 100% under their control, 100% their call to arbitrarily extend one item in it, for whatever reason. In making the decision to extend it, once again the collecting community was spooned a heaping helping of the low scruples of the man running it, Doug Allen.

We are not idiots. The motives behind extending this auction and the justifications in doing so don't add up.

Let me jump to the chase. If I were buying the jersey, I would want absolute proof the garment was real before laying out monies equivalent to the down payment of a castle. But if I'm the bidder who placed the $175,000 bid on this jersey, I am already convinced of it's authenticity.

But NOW? The auction having unjustly been extended because of God only knows why, I'm just wiped off the podium, my justified significance as the winning high bidder erased, as I am left awaiting my "Doug Allen" unanaesthetised colonoscopy "upon further finding". Where is the fairness in that? Are all of you involved in this debacle, whether innocently or by choice really asking the collecting community to believe this "guy" who was the high bidder is OK with paying potentially $10's of thousands of dollars MORE, for added proof the jersey is legit?

Barry, I don't know if you personally are a collector, but if not, please trust me when I tell you part of the exhilarating fun of collecting is in the discovery. I realize this is a monumental piece and paying that price, one wants to be 100% sure, I GET IT. But let's be reasonable. The calling-off of the hammer total at the end was likely because someone wasn't happy with the result. There is no other reasonable answer. If you didn't prepare properly for your own auction and therefore aren't happy with the results, making the unprecedented call to simply screw the winner and extend it, just smells.

That's like Doug coming to a 10-pace gun fight with only three bullets in his gun, and after pulling the trigger hastily three times he finds his opponent standing there giving him the old toothless grin because all three shots missed. So as 'ol toot-less reaches down to pull his six-shooter out of the holster and "git his just RE-ward", Doug says "Um, wait, time out, gimme until December 15th to reload because I didn't come with a full gun, and dis ain't FAY-ER!"

Neither of these scenarios have much chance of ending well.

Sure, it's easy to claim that everyone wants the time to "do the right thing" and thoroughly discover all possible supporting evidence in light of the potential bonanza of it that just recently poured in from good samaritans and where-not in the hockey world. Of COURSE the consignor wants it. Of COURSE Doug wants it. It will do your company no harm in finding more supporting evidence as then you may be able to give it 100% authentication, rightfully adding another feather in your cap for the hobby world. But what about the guy who had it won? Something just.......smells.

Was there a guy who had it won? Because if that guy were me, Legendary would have already heard from my attorneys. You see, "good samaritans", an unhappy consignor, a shady auction house president, even you, Barry, if all of you come to me at the close of the auction and tell me "Hey, Chris, we really want you to be happy knowing what you're buying is the real deal, and ya know, we just aren't there yet. So please, take your $175K bid, put it on ice, and give us until mid-December. We'll have it 100% proven by then, we hope. Of course, there's always a chance by then based on what else we can conjure up you may have to pay more than DOUBLE for it at that point, but hey, solid authenticity is what it's all about, right?"

Do you know what I'd tell you at that moment?

Probably something close to what the high bidder should be telling all of you now. And the screaming silence of that scenario really leaves me feeling strange about that $175,000 bid. I'll leave it at that as I don't want this post deleted. I've worked too hard here trying to get my point across.

You did the responsible and professional thing by fairly authenticating the jersey to the best of Meigray's ability based on the available photographic evidence at the time the jersey went to auction. And to you and your companies credit, you issued appropriate authentication, one falling short of 100% confirmation due to lack of available photographic evidence of the back side of the jersey and/or clearer pictures of the jersey in general. In short, you've done everything exactly as we would all hope for and expect from a reputable authenticator, responsibly, thoroughly, and professionally, never compromising the quality of your "product" even under duress from forces that may try to influence you otherwise.

Your company offers a precious service to this hobby. I can appreciate fully that Meigray is not able to "pick and choose" where requests come from when your services are solicited. I can also appreciate that taking the middle road when situations like these appear is professionally the best and decent road for you to choose.

There are quite a few unsavory characters involved in this hobby. Many of us have been taken to the cleaners by them. So I trust you can appreciate our skepticism and conclusions drawn on mistrust as they rear their ugly heads on occasions that warrant them. Even when they do, still we must be held to higher standards and not make accusations against potentially innocent parties, even though history and the FBI have shown us our suspicions are well within reason. We follow rules of law, as the unsavory others do their best to sidestep them while seeking undeserved riches. It's unsettling when it's happening on your block.

That is my best shot at an apology back at you. Thanks for all you do for our hobby. We greatly appreciate it.

Chris

BarryMeisel
11-25-2014, 09:01 AM
Thanks for the comments, Chris.

I would like to know a little more about you, so I can tell you a little more about me.

Please email me at bmeisel@meigray.com

Barry

GoTigers
11-25-2014, 10:42 AM
As far as I'm aware the actual authenticity of the item has never been questioned. The sole reason to extend the bidding is to achieve a higher hammer price.

The auction started with an authenticated jersey and a style match provided.. At this point NOTHING has changed.. If the original date approached with a 500k bid, the. I'm sure Legendary would not feel the need to provide a conclusive match.

The auction house and consigner were aware that a conclusive match had not been established prior to the auction starting and at that point should have decided to hold the item until a match was found. Or run with a style match and let the auction end at the established time.

Also, extending the auction is based on the POSSIBILITY of finding a conclusive match within the next month.. What happens if one is not found? Will bidders be able to retract bids since the title and write-up advertise a "100%" match?

If I consign an item with Legendary and am not happy with the "final" price.. Will they extend the auction if a record/HOF induction/MVP/Championship etc. is a POSSIBILITY within the next month or so?

This practice is good for Legendary and the consigner.. But a bad precedent for the hobby. Hopefully this is not tolerated by the community.

3arod13
11-25-2014, 11:16 AM
As far as I'm aware the actual authenticity of the item has never been questioned. The sole reason to extend the bidding is to achieve a higher hammer price.

The auction started with an authenticated jersey and a style match provided.. At this point NOTHING has changed.. If the original date approached with a 500k bid, the. I'm sure Legendary would not feel the need to provide a conclusive match.

The auction house and consigner were aware that a conclusive match had not been established prior to the auction starting and at that point should have decided to hold the item until a match was found. Or run with a style match and let the auction end at the established time.

Also, extending the auction is based on the POSSIBILITY of finding a conclusive match within the next month.. What happens if one is not found? Will bidders be able to retract bids since the title and write-up advertise a "100%" match?

If I consign an item with Legendary and am not happy with the "final" price.. Will they extend the auction if a record/HOF induction/MVP/Championship etc. is a POSSIBILITY within the next month or so?

This practice is good for Legendary and the consigner.. But a bad precedent for the hobby. Hopefully this is not tolerated by the community.

Jimmy,

+1. Great points!!

Phil316
11-25-2014, 11:42 AM
Well written comment Jimmy. I agree with you 100%.

Roady
11-25-2014, 12:29 PM
Thanks for the comments, Chris.

I would like to know a little more about you, so I can tell you a little more about me.

Please email me at bmeisel@meigray.com

Barry
Wait what? You guys know each other or not?

Chris Cavalier - "I will add that in knowing Barry personally, that has been my experience with him. That is, Barry has always responded to questions and has tried to keep collectors informed when information is requested.

Thank you Barry for taking the time to explain the situation and I hope you will continue to keep us apprised of the situation.

Sincerely,
Chris"

nickacs
11-25-2014, 12:54 PM
Roady,
Barry was replying to 'ShaimOnYou's thread. His name is Chris. He was not talking about Chris Cavalier.

BVC
11-25-2014, 01:05 PM
Roady,
Barry was replying to 'ShaimOnYou's thread. His name is Chris. He was not talking about Chris Cavalier.

It was a non-Cavalier gesture on Barry's part.

Roady
11-25-2014, 01:36 PM
It was a non-Cavalier gesture on Barry's part.
LOL

Too many Chris' :D

Ever see that show "Everyone hates Chris"?

ShaimOnYou
11-25-2014, 09:20 PM
As far as I'm aware the actual authenticity of the item has never been questioned. The sole reason to extend the bidding is to achieve a higher hammer price.

The auction started with an authenticated jersey and a style match provided.. At this point NOTHING has changed.. If the original date approached with a 500k bid, the. I'm sure Legendary would not feel the need to provide a conclusive match.

The auction house and consigner were aware that a conclusive match had not been established prior to the auction starting and at that point should have decided to hold the item until a match was found. Or run with a style match and let the auction end at the established time.

Also, extending the auction is based on the POSSIBILITY of finding a conclusive match within the next month.. What happens if one is not found? Will bidders be able to retract bids since the title and write-up advertise a "100%" match?

If I consign an item with Legendary and am not happy with the "final" price.. Will they extend the auction if a record/HOF induction/MVP/Championship etc. is a POSSIBILITY within the next month or so?

This practice is good for Legendary and the consigner.. But a bad precedent for the hobby. Hopefully this is not tolerated by the community.

Yes, well written, but lacking the outrage. Jimmy, these guys are writing their own rules. And here's the cold, hard facts: There ain't a thing we can do about it.

Only the high bidder can.

How can the high bidder stand for it? Was it "understood" the item should draw a much higher price, so "collectively" the bidders essentially pulled out because there was behind-the-scenes chatter going on that further research needed to be done and the reigning high bid would not be honored? Was the high bidder made aware of this tiny little fact that he had wasted his time committing a small fortune to an item whose hammer price would not he honored? I don't remember seeing in the description or next to the offer price ANYTHING stating there was a "reserve" placed on the auction?

We still don't know what really happened here.

Am I the only one here scratching my head? This smells so bad I need to leave the room.


(Please keep the applause to a minimum, thank you :) )

BaseballNutz
12-15-2014, 11:40 AM
In reading through my emails this weekend, I received an email that is directly related to this subject. Here is an update, word for word from my email.


Update on Gretzky Rookie Jersey From MeiGray & Legendary Auctions

Prior to the end of our November Auction we communicated that Legendary Auctions had made the decision to extend the bidding on the 1979-80 Wayne Gretzky Rookie Jersey in our current auction to allow our staff and the MeiGray Authentication team to do additional research.

As a reminder the goal was to find clear full back shots from this season as the authentication process fell short of offering this match. The two photo archives our partner MeiGray gained access to unfortunately did not provide any quality back shots that would enable us to nail down this final piece of the authentication puzzle. That being said they have identified other avenues to finalize the authentication of this historic jersey.

Legendary, MeiGray and our Consignor all agree that it is important to cover every base possible.

As a result we are taking down the auction of the jersey to allow MeiGray to pursue these other avenues that we pray will be fruitful. The definitive timeline is as follows:
· MeiGray will complete the final step of their work by January 9th, 2015
· Legendary Auctions will document the additional findings in the write-up.
· Existing bidders will be given the opportunity to occupy the same spots they currently hold in the bidding process.
· Bidding will commence Monday January 13th and the auction will end January 23rd.
We appreciate Barry Meisel and the team at MeiGray working tirelessly to take the necessary steps to ensure every possible aspect of this jersey is addressed.


Sounds like all of the bidders were placed on hold, but will be able to keep their place in the bidding once it re-opens.

Dave

commando
01-13-2015, 01:45 PM
An email from Legendary Auctions today:


We are pleased to announce that bidding is live on the historic 1979-80 Wayne Gretzky Rookie Jersey. We are confident that in conjunction with our partner MeiGray Authentication we made the right decision to put off the bidding in order to take the authentication process to another level.

This process culminated in a round-table discussion with the best “Gretzky” minds in the business held in Edmonton; the place where this amazing garment began its illustrious career on the back of “The Great One” over 35 years ago. Barry Meisel, Principal of MeiGray Authentication, met with respected veteran game-worn jersey collectors Shawn Chaulk, Joe Esposito and Perry Nelson. The outcome of this work yielded the following unified conclusion as detailed in the MeiGray Letter of Authenticity:

Conclusion: MeiGray and the three veteran collectors who contributed to the findings have jointly concluded that the offered jersey was worn both in the pre-season and the regular season by Wayne Gretzky. We have also concluded that other than the nameplate, which we believe was added after the 1979-80 NHL season, all other components of the jersey, including the numbers, crest, 75th Anniversary patch and manufacturer's tagging appear to be original and unaltered.

The bidding will end Thursday, January 22nd where the 30 minute rule will be in effect starting 10:00 P.M. central time for all bidders that have placed bids prior to this time.

suicide_squeeze
02-17-2015, 06:36 PM
I think a review of this auction and the comments surrounding it are in order.

We had a prominent "rookie" game used Wayne Gretzky jersey up for auction in Legendary's 2014 winter auction. As most of you know, it was frozen (the sale was stopped) just before the auction ended, after what appeared to be a steady climb in bidding to bring the high bid to $175,000.

Obviously is isn't an orthodox move to stop an auction DEAD in it's tracks with the explanation that all parties would benefit from additional time to further authenticate the jersey. With almost no thought or "reasoning" expended, this simply couldn't be further from the truth for the person who was the high bidder, but we'll get to that. As a result, many skeptical comments, accusations, and speculation on what had really happened started flying. And in the mayhem, Barry Meisel of Meigray jumped in making the statement that everyone should stop their comments as they were all wrong. In all fairness, he later apologized as he didn't want to appear like he was chastising the collecting community over the strangeness of the actions displayed by Legendary to cease the auction at the eleventh hour.

What happened here? Was the jersey over-estimated in value by the auction house at $500,000? Was the provenance inadequate for big $$$ collectors? Was Legendary panicking at the perception of the jersey going for 100's of thousands less than estimated so they reacted in an attempt to save face? Was the consignor so angry that he pressured them into stopping the auction because he felt he was misled and promised something he wasn't going to receive?

Or...was it something that, without substantial proof, stating here even as an opinion, would just get you banned!?

Any of you involved in this hobby knows that a special item, in the last moments of it's auction, can at the drop of a dime get into a NASTY glorious no-holds-barred back-n-forth bidding war until the piece reaches a value no one thought possible. So it would make sense the fear of a lack of a bidding war is NOT what prompted the halt of this auction. Legendary's inexplicable deed had to be triggered by something else.

Was it not the fear, but to the contrary the absolute certainty that a bidding war was not going to take place, that prompted the cease of the auction? And if so, what relevant fact...what knowledge...led to support their concern on that?

So the jersey was halted and Legendary came out with a cute email to all of the sheep who cared to read it, not on WHY it was halted, but rather on WHAT they were going to do AFTER halting it. The collecting community was handed a sack of....well, something, I'm not sure what because we can't smell here over the internet....but it was something expressing the conundrum that "this would be in the best interest of all parties". Well, let's take a peek at that too.

Let's start with identifying the "parties" of which, in it's simplest form there are three. One would certainly be the consignor (for the sake of our discussion, lets leave out the fact the consignor could be the auction house itself, one of it's principles, or any other third party who is being represented by the person acting as the "consignor"). Yep, I can see how further authentication verifying the jersey's heritage, would help Mr. Consignor.

Second, there's the auction house performing the auction. Common sense rings true that since they receive their take from a percentage-based commission (via buyer's and sellers premiums), anything to bolster the price would work to their benefit too. Check.

Lastly, there's that dude on the other side trying to add that little gem to his collection. And that's where Legendary's explanation skids off the icy road.

To the buyer of any piece, the provenance is of utmost importance. So as was previously stated in this thread by a prior poster, the "high bidder" obviously was sold on the authenticity: He placed a $175,000 bid on the darn thing! So one could argue, how, having the rug pulled out from underneath him just before the hammer comes down and he WINS his cherished jersey, does it benefit HIM to have the auction halted to facilitate "additional authentication" when he is about to win it and is ALREADY CONVINCED OF IT'S AUTHENTICITY?? Let's all be adult here. That's not even realistic. What if the winning bidder had done his OWN research, and had found proof the jersey was real? Meigray is a FANTASTIC company and their services are precious to the collecting community. But they aren't the BE-ALL END-ALL on everything! Are you telling me Mr. Highbidder is going to sit by happily while Legendary solicits Meigray to "FIND MORE PROOF!" in an attempt to ultimately drive the value of the poorly performing jersey higher if solid additional photographic evidence is found, EVIDENCE THAT HE MAY ALREADY HAVE FROM HIS OWN DUE DILIGENCE?

There are many scenarios that can (and did) pop into the minds of collectors who expressed their dismay over the last second plug-pulling of this jersey auction. All of it, warranted, IMO.

As a fellow collector perplexed with finding out what really went down here, I find it troubling that there hasn't been one single solitary forum member or authoritative figure to demand an answer from Legendary on what happened to the high bidder as the smoke cleared from Legendary locking the brakes up on this jersey at the finish line. But that's just me, the eternal optimist believing truth will always come out at the detriment of deceit. I'm a hopeless romantic....

So, how does it end?

Legendary, with this mountain of additional data to rifle through, a plethora of additional photographic opportunity recently discovered and presented to them, drug Barry Meisel & Co. through it while manufacturing additional time to further authenticate the jersey. And the net resulting financial windfall?

A loss of $45,000 in the final bid value. The final bid on the jersey ended up being $130,000, plus the 19.5% buyer's premium for a grand total of $155,350. So much for maximizing the value from "additional time for further authentication". (Remember, that $175,000 "high bid" hadn't even been subjected to the 19.5% buyers premium yet to be added when the halting took place. We're talking almost $210 GRAND!).

The bigger question here is, when they reopened the bidding, where did all of these bidders go that previously drove the jersey to $175,000? Inquiring minds want to know. A forum member was banned for expressing his take on that, so I'm leaving it alone. ;) No insinuations, no speculation!

There are very strict rules here on the forum, and I don't even want to walk into the same building as one that would even remotely approach the appearance of breaking a forum rule. Been there, done that, and there's no future in it. :) So I will ask this question as a concerned collector:

What happened to the high bidder at $175,000? Did he allow Legendary to arbitrarily STOP THE AUCTION because he felt there was a chance that the jersey he was betting BANK on would DROP in value and he'd get it on the CHEAP after Barry and Company took a MONTH looking through additional photos that may help lock up additional photographic proof it's the real deal? Now THAT'S MY KIND of GAMBLER! BOY HOWDY!!

Is anyone here falling over themselves like I am yet? Or am I just delusional over my perception of the obvious?

I am welcoming any representative from Legendary, or Barry Meisel if he cares to add comments based on knowledge he may have to the question, to set the record straight on what happened to the high bidder of this auction. The silence on this thread is deeply disturbing. I for one would never accept that as an end result on ANYTHING I was bidding on if I were in the position to win it. Not a chance. We are all asked to "play by the rules". What gives the auction house demanding that from us to act otherwise?

Steve

KGoldin
02-17-2015, 06:44 PM
Steve
Jersey came back with an analysis of not having an Original nameplate.
That was contrary to the first go around if I recall correctly



UOTE=suicide_squeeze;374658]I think a review of this auction and the comments surrounding it are in order.

We had a prominent "rookie" game used Wayne Gretzky jersey up for auction in Legendary's 2014 winter auction. As most of you know, it was frozen (the sale was stopped) just before the auction ended, after what appeared to be a steady climb in bidding to bring the high bid to $175,000.

Obviously is isn't an orthodox move to stop an auction DEAD in it's tracks with the explanation that all parties would benefit from additional time to further authenticate the jersey. With almost no thought or "reasoning" expended, this simply couldn't be further from the truth for the person who was the high bidder, but we'll get to that. As a result, many skeptical comments, accusations, and speculation on what had really happened started flying. And in the mayhem, Barry Meisel of Meigray jumped in making the statement that everyone should stop their comments as they were all wrong. In all fairness, he later apologized as he didn't want to appear like he was chastising the collecting community over the strangeness of the actions displayed by Legendary to cease the auction at the eleventh hour.

What happened here? Was the jersey over-estimated in value by the auction house at $500,000? Was the provenance inadequate for big $$$ collectors? Was Legendary panicking at the perception of the jersey going for 100's of thousands less than estimated so they reacted in an attempt to save face? Was the consignor so angry that he pressured them into stopping the auction because he felt he was misled and promised something he wasn't going to receive?

Or...was it something that, without substantial proof, stating here even as an opinion, would just get you banned!?

Any of you involved in this hobby knows that a special item, in the last moments of it's auction, can at the drop of a dime get into a NASTY glorious no-holds-barred back-n-forth bidding war until the piece reaches a value no one thought possible. So it would make sense the fear of a lack of a bidding war is NOT what prompted the halt of this auction. Legendary's inexplicable deed had to be triggered by something else.

Was it not the fear, but to the contrary the absolute certainty that a bidding war was not going to take place, that prompted the cease of the auction? And if so, what relevant fact...what knowledge...led to support their concern on that?

So the jersey was halted and Legendary came out with a cute email to all of the sheep who cared to read it, not on WHY it was halted, but rather on WHAT they were going to do AFTER halting it. The collecting community was handed a sack of....well, something, I'm not sure what because we can't smell here over the internet....but it was something expressing the conundrum that "this would be in the best interest of all parties". Well, let's take a peek at that too.

Let's start with identifying the "parties" of which, in it's simplest form there are three. One would certainly be the consignor (for the sake of our discussion, lets leave out the fact the consignor could be the auction house itself, one of it's principles, or any other third party who is being represented by the person acting as the "consignor"). Yep, I can see how further authentication verifying the jersey's heritage, would help Mr. Consignor.

Second, there's the auction house performing the auction. Common sense rings true that since they receive their take from a percentage-based commission (via buyer's and sellers premiums), anything to bolster the price would work to their benefit too. Check.

Lastly, there's that dude on the other side trying to add that little gem to his collection. And that's where Legendary's explanation skids off the icy road.

To the buyer of any piece, the provenance is of utmost importance. So as was previously stated in this thread by a prior poster, the "high bidder" obviously was sold on the authenticity: He placed a $175,000 bid on the darn thing! So one could argue, how, having the rug pulled out from underneath him just before the hammer comes down and he WINS his cherished jersey, does it benefit HIM to have the auction halted to facilitate "additional authentication" when he is about to win it and is ALREADY CONVINCED OF IT'S AUTHENTICITY?? Let's all be adult here. That's not even realistic. What if the winning bidder had done his OWN research, and had found proof the jersey was real? Meigray is a FANTASTIC company and their services are precious to the collecting community. But they aren't the BE-ALL END-ALL on everything! Are you telling me Mr. Highbidder is going to sit by happily while Legendary solicits Meigray to "FIND MORE PROOF!" in an attempt to ultimately drive the value of the poorly performing jersey higher if solid additional photographic evidence is found, EVIDENCE THAT HE MAY ALREADY HAVE FROM HIS OWN DUE DILIGENCE?

There are many scenarios that can (and did) pop into the minds of collectors who expressed their dismay over the last second plug-pulling of this jersey auction. All of it, warranted, IMO.

As a fellow collector perplexed with finding out what really went down here, I find it troubling that there hasn't been one single solitary forum member or authoritative figure to demand an answer from Legendary on what happened to the high bidder as the smoke cleared from Legendary locking the brakes up on this jersey at the finish line. But that's just me, the eternal optimist believing truth will always come out at the detriment of deceit. I'm a hopeless romantic....

So, how does it end?

Legendary, with this mountain of additional data to rifle through, a plethora of additional photographic opportunity recently discovered and presented to them, drug Barry Meisel & Co. through it while manufacturing additional time to further authenticate the jersey. And the net resulting financial windfall?

A loss of $45,000 in the final bid value. The final bid on the jersey ended up being $130,000, plus the 19.5% buyer's premium for a grand total of $155,350. So much for maximizing the value from "additional time for further authentication". (Remember, that $175,000 "high bid" hadn't even been subjected to the 19.5% buyers premium yet to be added when the halting took place. We're talking almost $210 GRAND!).

The bigger question here is, when they reopened the bidding, where did all of these bidders go that previously drove the jersey to $175,000? Inquiring minds want to know. A forum member was banned for expressing his take on that, so I'm leaving it alone. ;) No insinuations, no speculation!

There are very strict rules here on the forum, and I don't even want to walk into the same building as one that would even remotely approach the appearance of breaking a forum rule. Been there, done that, and there's no future in it. :) So I will ask this question as a concerned collector:

What happened to the high bidder at $175,000? Did he allow Legendary to arbitrarily STOP THE AUCTION because he felt there was a chance that the jersey he was betting BANK on would DROP in value and he'd get it on the CHEAP after Barry and Company took a MONTH looking through additional photos that may help lock up additional photographic proof it's the real deal? Now THAT'S MY KIND of GAMBLER! BOY HOWDY!!

Is anyone here falling over themselves like I am yet? Or am I just delusional over my perception of the obvious?

I am welcoming any representative from Legendary, or Barry Meisel if he cares to add comments based on knowledge he may have to the question, to set the record straight on what happened to the high bidder of this auction. The silence on this thread is deeply disturbing. I for one would never accept that as an end result on ANYTHING I was bidding on if I were in the position to win it. Not a chance. We are all asked to "play by the rules". What gives the auction house demanding that from us to act otherwise?

Steve[/QUOTE]

danesei@yahoo.com
02-17-2015, 07:12 PM
Steve
Jersey came back with an analysis of not having an Original nameplate.
That was contrary to the first go around if I recall correctly

That is accurate. The Legendary Auction listing said the jersey was photo-matched to a Canucks program without the nameplate, so the conclusion was that the nameplate was added after the season.

Given the white restored jersey sold for $150k, this blue nameplate added jersey may have been considered as restored by the $175k bidder.

I think stopping the auction before it ended (even if in the final moments) was the right thing to do.

suicide_squeeze
02-20-2015, 08:54 PM
That is accurate. The Legendary Auction listing said the jersey was photo-matched to a Canucks program without the nameplate, so the conclusion was that the nameplate was added after the season.

Given the white restored jersey sold for $150k, this blue nameplate added jersey may have been considered as restored by the $175k bidder.

I think stopping the auction before it ended (even if in the final moments) was the right thing to do.

Sorry I didn't respond sooner. We had a family member (pet) pass away unexpectedly and my concerns have been elsewhere the last few days.

Yep, I was aware as I read the comments in the follow-up emails when Legendary, whole-heartedly (LOL) and forced by their own actions, had to share the additional proof they discovered from the month-long Legendary-initiated research, and announced the restarting of the auction.

So...Doug Allen and company (probably just Doug by himself) grew a conscious and thought he would do the hobby and bidders on this gem justice by stopping the auction for this jersey they estimated to reach $500,000...but was only at $175,000 at the finish line......(taking a DEEP breath).....so he could further photographically verify the jersey was what it was offered as being, and, because of his new-found personal glorious desire to do the right thing for us collectors, all at the expense of the consignor and Legendary's 19.5% commission!!!????

(GAAAAAAASSSSSPING FOR A DEEP BREATH)

Man, what a glorious day! This man has found righteousness!!

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRS1KXaqAefbBikZdAJFIZzrlgGUEUAL 0bdGf2V_LCHUnSN0uOPfw

I hope the judge is enlightened to his monumental break-through and takes that into serious consideration at the sentencing hearing next month!! In the meantime you guys know me, I like to throw dog food all over a freshly grilled filet dinner, so I'll play devil's advocate and ask...

Could this be a laughable case of greed biting the greedy in the hind quarters hard? Stopping that auction cost the consignor a MINIMUM OF $45,000 due to the fine research of Meigray and company, and the "further research" discovery that the jersey now exists in something OTHER than it's all-original condition....something that usually lowers interest with the big boys in the collecting hobby.

At the very least, that may be an explanation of what happened to the high bidder(s) (and thank GOD for that! No one gets a shill...err!...THRILL, out of assuming something worse). Given the newly-found info provided by the additional discovery Legendary bent the rules to facilitate, they pulled up stakes and moved on. But the fact the rules of the auction house itself were manually "tweaked" as the clock struck 12 still wreaks of a self-serving manipulation of the "unregulated game" called sports memorabilia auctions that blew up BADLY in their faces.Maybe Doug will find a tad of spare time to sit quietly and contemplate the error of his ways?

How high could the jersey have gone if the auction wasn't stopped? Maybe it ran it's course and was already there. The painful answer, however, was $45K higher than where it ultimately ended, no matter how you cut the cake. The irony of it all. And such a shame on the bad call. It's tough enough these days for a solid citizen to raise enough to cover attorney fee's, ain't it?