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View Full Version : A gorgeous jersey ruined for me at least



topekabob
08-25-2014, 10:22 PM
Take a look at this incredible jersey: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1972-73-David-Lattin-Memphis-Tams-Game-Worn-Autographed-ABA-Jersey-JSA-Rare-/141386884660?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20eb50a634

I am a ABA fanatic, but for me personally - and again, just my personal preference - the writing and autograph on the front ruin it for me. Jerseys that are unique, gorgeous, from a defunct team, or just plain weird, to me transcend the player who wore it. No offense to the player, but for me it's the front of the jersey, not the back (i.e. player), that's amazing and cool. That's why I always shake my head when I go to a sports bar and see a framed game worn jersey that is displayed with the back showing. Great, a number and a name...when on the front might be a unique one year style, font, etc.

Again, I'm probably in the minority, but for me jerseys are a unique work of art, a snapshot of a point in time in the past, and having the player autograph it years later on the front of it doesn't enhance it but takes away a bit of that magic. Not saying others are wrong for liking the autographs, but simply one opinion.

Phil316
08-25-2014, 11:54 PM
In this case I agree with you.

cfern023
08-26-2014, 01:42 AM
Take a look at this incredible jersey: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1972-73-David-Lattin-Memphis-Tams-Game-Worn-Autographed-ABA-Jersey-JSA-Rare-/141386884660?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20eb50a634

I am a ABA fanatic, but for me personally - and again, just my personal preference - the writing and autograph on the front ruin it for me. Jerseys that are unique, gorgeous, from a defunct team, or just plain weird, to me transcend the player who wore it. No offense to the player, but for me it's the front of the jersey, not the back (i.e. player), that's amazing and cool. That's why I always shake my head when I go to a sports bar and see a framed game worn jersey that is displayed with the back showing. Great, a number and a name...when on the front might be a unique one year style, font, etc.

Again, I'm probably in the minority, but for me jerseys are a unique work of art, a snapshot of a point in time in the past, and having the player autograph it years later on the front of it doesn't enhance it but takes away a bit of that magic. Not saying others are wrong for liking the autographs, but simply one opinion.

While it takes balls to attempt it, I'm sure you can get the autograph out. I had a jerseys stored for two years, and some 91% rubbing alcohol and a little scrubbing and out it came.

Just needs a wash after.

ivo610
08-26-2014, 03:31 AM
Completely ruined the jersey

woodward30
08-26-2014, 03:56 AM
I hate autographs on game worn jerseys. I repeat, I hate autographs on game worn jerseys. Why would you ruin a beautifully original historical item with a huge autograph? The player didn't wear the jersey with a huge autograph, so why put it on it? One of my biggest pet peeves of the collecting hobby.

Roady
08-26-2014, 04:34 AM
Doesn't bother me at all.
I have never seen a players bat being used in a game with his autograph on it either.
Everyone cries for proof that items were game worn. Well there is your proof even if you lose the coa.

Retired Old Guy
08-26-2014, 07:52 AM
I see no problem at all. Matter of preference. Some like autographs on the front, others the back, or not at all. To the comment that the jersey was not worn that way with an autograph, well I've come across people who will wear a player's jersey. It makes them happy. However that's not my preference. If you own the jersey, it is retired. If you got the autograph, you met the player and you had interaction with him. That's great. As far as removing a signature, I have seen it done more than a few times. I have also seen a couple of disasters. You do so at risk.

otismalibu
08-26-2014, 07:59 AM
I don't think he added any value to the jersey.

Chess2899
08-26-2014, 08:07 AM
I like an autograph. The jersey is retired and no longer active. It means at one point the jersey was reheld for the signature stirring up good memories for the signer. I saw 80 year old HOFers at the National exuberant when holding their jerseys and signing them. Joy had been brought into their lives anindie the owners. Memories are precious. The autograph is the final stamp of approval on their career. The jersey lives and doesn't get tossed in an old Goodwill bin. You get joy putting it on display where others can relish in memories long gone. The number on the back becomes alive with a written name. It becomes memorialized. It is part of history. It remains part of life.

mbrieve
08-26-2014, 08:11 AM
Yeah, no thanks. It just seems worse on a vintage jersey, too.

Skizzick
08-26-2014, 08:15 AM
I hate autographs on game worn jerseys. I repeat, I hate autographs on game worn jerseys. Why would you ruin a beautifully original historical item with a huge autograph? The player didn't wear the jersey with a huge autograph, so why put it on it? One of my biggest pet peeves of the collecting hobby.
I completely disagree. If the autograph isn't aesthetically pleasing (such as this), then I would agree, but having a player autograph the game used jersey adds another personal touch to the item. They are marking their memory on that jersey for everyone to see.

genius
08-26-2014, 09:28 AM
The rear of the jersey would have been a more appropriate place for the autograph in my opinion.

ShaimOnYou
08-26-2014, 10:24 AM
This one in particular bothers me.

Yep, if I owned this ruined jersey, I'm afraid I'd just throw it away in the trash.

On a more serious note, some jerseys do lose a bit of luster if the signature (and inscription) is not applied in a tasteful manner. But in general, having the players signature is almost always a bonus to the piece. Of course I'm talking about from an investment angle, not personal preference.

Chess2899
08-26-2014, 10:49 AM
This one in particular bothers me.

Yep, if I owned this ruined jersey, I'm afraid I'd just throw it away in the trash.

On a more serious note, some jerseys do lose a bit of luster if the signature (and inscription) is not applied in a tasteful manner. But in general, having the players signature is almost always a bonus to the piece. Of course I'm talking about from an investment angle, not personal preference.

Hey! I need that Aaron jersey to go with my 62' game used Aaron pants!
email me!

ShaimOnYou
08-26-2014, 11:04 AM
Hey! I need that Aaron jersey to go with my 62' game used Aaron pants!
email me!

Sorry, I don't own it. I just pulled up a picture from an old auction of that jersey because I really liked it and remember the pain of losing it well. :(

xsentrixsupra
08-26-2014, 12:43 PM
Like its been said, it is all personal preference. I don't mind stuff with or without a signature.

Jags Fan Dan
08-26-2014, 01:20 PM
I don't mind a signed gamer, but I strongly prefer it be on a number or something, not just floating on the jersey fabric.

Roady
08-26-2014, 01:44 PM
I don't mind a signed gamer, but I strongly prefer it be on a number or something, not just floating on the jersey fabric.

I prefer it on a back number also.

woodward30
08-26-2014, 02:26 PM
I completely disagree. If the autograph isn't aesthetically pleasing (such as this), then I would agree, but having a player autograph the game used jersey adds another personal touch to the item. They are marking their memory on that jersey for everyone to see.
To each his own I guess. I prefer to have the item exactly as it was worn/used by the player. If the item was altered in any way since the item was used directly by the player, I'm no longer interested in it.

slats7
08-26-2014, 02:28 PM
Couldn't agree more. I can't tell you how many jerseys I've passed on because there was writing on them. Would you paint a mustache on the Mona Lisa? No? Then stop vandalizing unis. We want it to look exactly like it did when you wore it, and last time I checked, players don't wear unis with ugly signatures on them.

Chess2899
08-26-2014, 04:05 PM
I helped an old man clean out his attic. He noted that some stuff in there belonged to his grandfather. Before too long, he stumbled on a 1927 game used Babe Ruth uniform. It had a bold Babe Ruth signature on it, "To my good buddy!, Babe Ruth". The old man asked me if I wanted it. I said no, the signature ruined the originality of the 1927 New York Yankee uniform. I don't like damaged goods! The old man responded, "OK, thought I would ask anyway. There is this nice man named Ken Goldin who has called a few times looking for baseball stuff. Maybe, I can get him to pick up all this junk for $20." :eek:

Roady
08-26-2014, 04:50 PM
Couldn't agree more. I can't tell you how many jerseys I've passed on because there was writing on them. Would you paint a mustache on the Mona Lisa? No? Then stop vandalizing unis. We want it to look exactly like it did when you wore it, and last time I checked, players don't wear unis with ugly signatures on them.

It's not a work of art. It is a piece of clothing mass produced in a factory.

And the Mona Lisa is boring. Maybe a mustache would make her smile. :D

Roady
08-26-2014, 04:51 PM
I helped an old man clean out his attic. He noted that some stuff in there belonged to his grandfather. Before too long, he stumbled on a 1927 game used Babe Ruth uniform. It had a bold Babe Ruth signature on it, "To my good buddy!, Babe Ruth". The old man asked me if I wanted it. I said no, the signature ruined the originality of the 1927 New York Yankee uniform. I don't like damaged goods! The old man responded, "OK, thought I would ask anyway. There is this nice man named Ken Goldin who has called a few times looking for baseball stuff. Maybe, I can get him to pick up all this junk for $20." :eek:

Throw it in the garbage it has a signature on it! :D

slats7
08-26-2014, 05:19 PM
It's not a work of art. It is a piece of clothing mass produced in a factory.

And the Mona Lisa is boring. Maybe a mustache would make her smile. :D

of course they're works of art. who do you think designs them? janitors? more like graphic artists. and you can't call a Babe Ruth jersey "mass produced" when there's like two of them in existence.

ferro39
08-26-2014, 05:19 PM
there are plenty of people who can remove the autogragph for a fairly nominal fee

seanbaseball
08-26-2014, 05:26 PM
Im looking at my clothing different now. I have a closet full of Works of art!!!!! :eek:

seanbaseball
08-26-2014, 05:32 PM
Artists

Chess2899
08-26-2014, 05:33 PM
Subway employees are also looked upon as "artists".:confused:

icollectDCsports
08-26-2014, 06:11 PM
I'm not in favor of getting game worn jerseys signed. There are different opinions on this subject, obviously. For those who can't resist getting jerseys auto'd, I'd recommend having them signed down by the tags. This leaves the upper portion of the jersey (the part that was visible while worn) the way it was while in use while still allowing for the personalization and authentication that some desire.

Phil316
08-26-2014, 06:18 PM
The worst is when you find a frail item and it is signed to the person. Totally a bummer unless you happen to have the same name.

Phil316
08-26-2014, 06:19 PM
Frail = Grail

woodward30
08-26-2014, 06:40 PM
I helped an old man clean out his attic. He noted that some stuff in there belonged to his grandfather. Before too long, he stumbled on a 1927 game used Babe Ruth uniform. It had a bold Babe Ruth signature on it, "To my good buddy!, Babe Ruth". The old man asked me if I wanted it. I said no, the signature ruined the originality of the 1927 New York Yankee uniform. I don't like damaged goods! The old man responded, "OK, thought I would ask anyway. There is this nice man named Ken Goldin who has called a few times looking for baseball stuff. Maybe, I can get him to pick up all this junk for $20." :eek:
Well, that's just a silly example. There's a difference between the monetary value of a historical item and the collecting value of the piece to an individual. Of course I would buy an under-valued (monetarily speaking) jersey with a signature on it and flip it for a profit. I would never keep a jersey with a signature on it though. The jersey just loses all of its collecting value to me if it has been altered like that. And in regards to possibly removing the signature, I still would not accept the jersey for my collection. Sure, to the naked eye, the jersey appears original. However, the jersey has still been altered from its original form (which could be confirmed through means such as light table analysis). Again, it's a matter of preference.

Roady
08-26-2014, 07:33 PM
of course they're works of art. who do you think designs them? janitors? more like graphic artists. and you can't call a Babe Ruth jersey "mass produced" when there's like two of them in existence.

Gear down a notch Hoss. Nobody is saying Babe Ruth jerseys are mass produced.

Let me try again since I obviously was not clear in my meaning.

The modern day jerseys are mass produced.

Roady
08-26-2014, 07:38 PM
Artists

:D

Roady
08-26-2014, 07:40 PM
Im looking at my clothing different now. I have a closet full of Works of art!!!!! :eek:

If you sign them you will have to trow them in the garbage. :(

beaglegypsy003
08-26-2014, 08:08 PM
Just wondering. By having a game ball, bat or anything else game-used autographed lower its value? There shouldn't be a difference since it is altered from its original state.

Roady
08-26-2014, 08:34 PM
Just wondering. By having a game ball, bat or anything else game-used autographed lower its value? There shouldn't be a difference since it is altered from its original state.

According to most of the auctions I have witnessed over the years it raises the value.

MikeKam
08-26-2014, 08:52 PM
I really like that autograph/inscription in the OP. I love when players inscribe items "G/U" "Game Used" or something similar as then you, and those looking at it, know that it was used by the player. If I had a game used jersey that showed little wear without such an inscription, I'm sure many people would just assume it to be a signed jersey.

seanbaseball
08-26-2014, 09:04 PM
If you sign them you will have to trow them in the garbage. :(


my wife just ran upstairs to sign all of them!:eek:

beaglegypsy003
08-26-2014, 09:05 PM
I'm just thinking that those purist collectors who feel that an autographed jersey is "ruined" would never have any autographed game-used item in their collection. As for myself, I like to have my football game jerseys autographed by the player. The only thing is that I would like to get them autographed myself.

Roady
08-26-2014, 09:10 PM
my wife just ran upstairs to sign all of them!:eek:

My wife just threatened to sign all my Hawaiian shirts. :( I like my Hawaiian shirts.

seanbaseball
08-26-2014, 09:11 PM
To all haters of signed game used items:

Please sell me all your signed game used items at "trash" value. I will create a "signed only" game used auction house. Let the cash roll in.:)

seanbaseball
08-26-2014, 09:13 PM
My wife just threatened to sign all my Hawaiian shirts. :( I like my Hawaiian shirts.

No worries. With Hawaiian shirts no one will be able to tell:D

Roady
08-26-2014, 09:15 PM
What about those horrible holograms on game used items. That hologram was not there when it was used in a game.

seanbaseball
08-26-2014, 09:22 PM
What about those horrible holograms on game used items. That hologram was not there when it was used in a game.

Clearly a violation! I just threw all my signed game used jerseys in the wash. Yes it will remove the game use, but more importantly it will remove their stupid signature or worse nasty inscription. From now on I will have players sign white sheets of paper. There aren't paper artists are there?:confused:

Roady
08-26-2014, 09:45 PM
Clearly a violation! I just threw all my signed game used jerseys in the wash. Yes it will remove the game use, but more importantly it will remove their stupid signature or worse nasty inscription. From now on I will have players sign white sheets of paper. There aren't paper artists are there?:confused:

I believe some artist draw on paper!

Chess2899
08-26-2014, 09:53 PM
At the National, I saw a person tape square 2x2 paper sheets on a jersey and asked the players to sign on the paper. That individual had 12 signatures on her 3000 hit jersey, all on paper taped to the jersey. I guess she can have her pure jersey anytime by removing all signed paper stickers. Of course, she paid a lot of money to get the autographs. I found that really wierd.

woodward30
08-26-2014, 09:55 PM
To all haters of signed game used items:

Please sell me all your signed game used items at "trash" value. I will create a "signed only" game used auction house. Let the cash roll in.:)
Your reading comprehension skills need work. Once again, there's a difference between the monetary, market-based value of a historic piece and the collecting utility a collector gains from owning a piece. And if you can't notice the difference between a mass-produced Tommy Bahama shirt and say, a World War II era St. Louis Cardinals flannel (of which maybe only 10 are known to still exist in original form), then I really don't even think it's worth the time to have an intelligent discussion with you.

seanbaseball
08-26-2014, 09:58 PM
So is the hall of fame actually an art museum where art( i.e. non signed jerseys) are displayed? Do people stand around drinking wine while trying to understand the "meaning" of ex. mickey mantles jersey. Its all starting to make sense now.

slats7
08-26-2014, 10:03 PM
Gear down a notch Hoss. Nobody is saying Babe Ruth jerseys are mass produced.

Let me try again since I obviously was not clear in my meaning.

The modern day jerseys are mass produced.

not the stuff worn by the players

seanbaseball
08-26-2014, 10:08 PM
Your reading comprehension skills need work. Once again, there's a difference between the monetary, market-based value of a historic piece and the collecting utility a collector gains from owning a piece. And if you can't notice the difference between a mass-produced Tommy Bahama shirt and say, a World War II era St. Louis Cardinals flannel (of which maybe only 10 are known to still exist in original form), then I really don't even think it's worth the time to have an intelligent discussion with you.

My comments were meant in good humor. If you cant tell the difference perhaps you've been spending too much time watching Dr. Phil. Lighten up. Signed game jerseys new and old bring more money than unsigned jerseys all else being equal. Your math skills need some work in the greater than >and less than< category. If someone doesn't want to get their Jersey signed then don't. Who cares! But don't act like you doing the jersey value a favor and clearly don't act like its art. FYI I did not bring up the Hawaiian shirt comment first so perhaps your right we cant have an intelligent conversation. :D

Roady
08-26-2014, 10:14 PM
not the stuff worn by the players

Maybe not mass produced per individual player but not rare by any means either.

I was talking about the thousands produced for MLB per year a whole.

Roady
08-26-2014, 10:17 PM
Mona Lisa sucked as a player. No wonder she doesn't smile.

Roady
08-26-2014, 10:20 PM
At the National, I saw a person tape square 2x2 paper sheets on a jersey and asked the players to sign on the paper. That individual had 12 signatures on her 3000 hit jersey, all on paper taped to the jersey. I guess she can have her pure jersey anytime by removing all signed paper stickers. Of course, she paid a lot of money to get the autographs. I found that really wierd.

That is strange.
But that is the great thing about America. You can be who you want and collect what you want and drive what you want.
Enjoy it while it last.

seanbaseball
08-26-2014, 10:26 PM
At the National, I saw a person tape square 2x2 paper sheets on a jersey and asked the players to sign on the paper. That individual had 12 signatures on her 3000 hit jersey, all on paper taped to the jersey. I guess she can have her pure jersey anytime by removing all signed paper stickers. Of course, she paid a lot of money to get the autographs. I found that really wierd.

HUH. Strange. Oh well. As collectors we all have different angles as to what we think makes sense and what we enjoy. I like signed stuff but others that don't no problem. I think its too much to say a signed item is ruined! Ruined would mean to me the majority of the population would think it was now junk, clearly from this conversation link we can tell that is not the case.

beachpetrol
08-26-2014, 11:08 PM
So is the hall of fame actually an art museum where art( i.e. non signed jerseys) are displayed? Do people stand around drinking wine while trying to understand the "meaning" of ex. mickey mantles jersey. Its all starting to make sense now.
Art provokes emotion. I would think looking at a Mantle jersey in the Hall would provoke an emotion. Ergo, it is art. <sips a glass of vintage Franzia>

Roady
08-26-2014, 11:11 PM
Art provokes emotion. I would think looking at a Mantle jersey in the Hall would provoke an emotion. Ergo, it is art. <sips a glass of vintage Franzia>

Don't drink too much or you will wind up like the Mick.

beachpetrol
08-26-2014, 11:22 PM
Don't drink too much or you will wind up like the Mick.
Right. And if you stare at the Mantle jersey long enough, it's like one of those magic eye 3-D art photos, that make the jersey look like a ship or dolphin.

slats7
08-27-2014, 02:25 PM
Art provokes emotion. I would think looking at a Mantle jersey in the Hall would provoke an emotion. Ergo, it is art. <sips a glass of vintage Franzia>

and yet collectors frame them .. like a piece of art

Roady
08-27-2014, 02:33 PM
and yet collectors frame them .. like a piece of art

The autograph is the art.
The player is the artist.
The jersey is just the canvas.
:D

jmeekins33
08-27-2014, 02:54 PM
I once was someone who really liked autographs on game jerseys. As time goes on I've found that I prefer to own game worn jerseys that have not been signed. That's my preference but it wouldn't dissuade me from purchasing a jersey that I really want.

G1X
08-28-2014, 01:00 PM
A message to no one in particular . . . Your personal collecting preferences and the parameters you set should be important to you, but it is not your place to impose those on other collectors. You might think that something is dumb, ugly, awful, ruined, stupid, unbelievable, etc., but the next collector might think that is is simply the best item they have ever seen. What you like and prefer might not be what the next collector likes and prefers. That's what makes this hobby wonderful - there are many different collectors with various tastes and desires.

If you like your jerseys autographed - great! If you find autographed jerseys to be an eyesore - great! If you like unwashed jerseys - great! If you can't stand dirty, stinky garments - great! If you love holograms - great! If you despise holograms pasted on the back number - great! If you like wearing your game-used jerseys - great! If you think that wearing a game-used jersey is an abomination - great! Whatever your preferences, it's all good if it works for you. All that should really matter is whether or not you like an item to add it to your collection.

Collect what you want, how you want, and ignore everyone else as all that matters is to collect what you like and what appeals to you. That's what makes it fun to collect. If we all had the same preferences and parameters, things would be pretty stale and very boring.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

Roady
08-28-2014, 01:29 PM
A message to no one in particular . . . Your personal collecting preferences and the parameters you set should be important to you, but it is not your place to impose those on other collectors. You might think that something is dumb, ugly, awful, ruined, stupid, unbelievable, etc., but the next collector might think that is is simply the best item they have ever seen. What you like and prefer might not be what the next collector likes and prefers. That's what makes this hobby wonderful - there are many different collectors with various tastes and desires.

If you like your jerseys autographed - great! If you find autographed jerseys to be an eyesore - great! If you like unwashed jerseys - great! If you can't stand dirty, stinky garments - great! If you love holograms - great! If you despise holograms pasted on the back number - great! If you like wearing your game-used jerseys - great! If you think that wearing a game-used jersey is an abomination - great! Whatever your preferences, it's all good if it works for you. All that should really matter is whether or not you like an item to add it to your collection.

Collect what you want, how you want, and ignore everyone else as all that matters is to collect what you like and what appeals to you. That's what makes it fun to collect. If we all had the same preferences and parameters, things would be pretty stale and very boring.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net
.

slats7
08-28-2014, 01:57 PM
A message to no one in particular . . . Your personal collecting preferences and the parameters you set should be important to you, but it is not your place to impose those on other collectors.

except that no one's doing that

Skizzick
08-28-2014, 02:05 PM
The autograph is the art.
The player is the artist.
The jersey is just the canvas.
:D

Well, that sums up all my opinions perfectly, though I don't get my GU jerseys framed.

UTeric3232
08-28-2014, 06:31 PM
I think the auto is sweet...

ShaimOnYou
08-28-2014, 10:49 PM
Don't drink too much or you will wind up like the Mick.


http://media1.giphy.com/media/CkyV1ZWhU3oGI/200.gif