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View Full Version : Rip Collin Joseph Kren Co bat HELP



seanbaseball
08-12-2014, 03:36 PM
Can anyone help with their thoughts on this bat. I have read many conflicting articles about Kren bats. Any help is greatly appreciated


http://www.ebay.com/itm/351142631756?_trksid=p2059216.m1431.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

danesei@yahoo.com
08-13-2014, 08:07 PM
I have already contacting the seller about these issues on this bat:

1) Record of Kren bats in games is fairly limited to those with block letter names on the barrel. There may have been instances of endorsed Kren bats used in games, but I've yet to see any research that would agree with that. Endorsed bats were sold by Krens until H&B

2) Kren Special Hand Turned bats were sold in catalogs by Kren. This fits with the Kren claim that all bats were handmade. In a way, this increases the likelihood that the bat, barring any evidence to the contrary, never made it into a game.

Now for reasons that the bat *might* be legit:

1) Ripper Collins played for the Rochester Red Wings. Due to proximity of Syracuse to Rochester, a good number of players on the Rochester squad (who would later play for the Cardinals) used Kren bats.

2) Absence of "Trademark" branding under Collins name would place the bat manufacturing date prior to whatever year Krens started to use that (1930s). I believe this was the result of a lawsuit over H&B endorsement deals. You could contact Louisville Slugger to see if they have more information on this.

All in all, if it's a retail bat, I guess the price isn't so bad, and if it does turn out to be a gamer, that's a very nice bonus.

Hoosier39
08-13-2014, 08:32 PM
I'm confused. So you're saying that player endorsed game used Kren bats didn't exist, for the most part? What do you mean endorsed bats were sold by Krens until H&B? As in, once H&B came along with endorsed bats, Kren stopped?


I have already contacting the seller about these issues on this bat:

1) Record of Kren bats in games is fairly limited to those with block letter names on the barrel. There may have been instances of endorsed Kren bats used in games, but I've yet to see any research that would agree with that. Endorsed bats were sold by Krens until H&B

2) Kren Special Hand Turned bats were sold in catalogs by Kren. This fits with the Kren claim that all bats were handmade. In a way, this increases the likelihood that the bat, barring any evidence to the contrary, never made it into a game.

Now for reasons that the bat *might* be legit:

1) Ripper Collins played for the Rochester Red Wings. Due to proximity of Syracuse to Rochester, a good number of players on the Rochester squad (who would later play for the Cardinals) used Kren bats.

2) Absence of "Trademark" branding under Collins name would place the bat manufacturing date prior to whatever year Krens started to use that (1930s). I believe this was the result of a lawsuit over H&B endorsement deals. You could contact Louisville Slugger to see if they have more information on this.

All in all, if it's a retail bat, I guess the price isn't so bad, and if it does turn out to be a gamer, that's a very nice bonus.

seanbaseball
08-13-2014, 09:10 PM
when you say "if it turns out to be a gamer", but in reality all the evidence for and against is already out there thus we will probably never know?

danesei@yahoo.com
08-13-2014, 10:05 PM
I'm confused. So you're saying that player endorsed game used Kren bats didn't exist, for the most part? What do you mean endorsed bats were sold by Krens until H&B? As in, once H&B came along with endorsed bats, Kren stopped?

Sorry for the confusion. I was saying that Kren signature bats (as opposed to block name ones) were sold in catalogs as endorsement bats. Prior to some time in the 30s, they would use the same signature burn (not sure how they got them) as H&B. After that time (1934?) Kren endorsed bats would have the word "trademark" under the signature on the barrel.

From what I've seen, yes, for the most part, Kren gamers were non-endorsement bats. Yes, there have been signature bats sold (even by major auction houses) as gamers, but there isn't really photo evidence of that type (signature models) being used in games. H&B did have some bats in their vaults that were side-marked Kren bats, but those were non-signature versions.

As for Sean's question, I mean to say that there *might* be photos out there showing batters using Kren signature bats or vault marked signature bats that were in some corner of a factory somewhere. If those came to surface, obviously, it would improve the possibility of a Kren signature bat being game used, since there'd be a style match. That's why I said if it turns out to be a gamer. Yes, given current available evidence, it's likely not a gamer, but we don't know: Maybe someone took a super high resolution photo on large format film of a player holding a Kren signature model bat while in the on-deck circle.

I suppose this goes back to provenance. If a signature game used bat came to market with strong provenance, that would mean that signature bats of that player could have been used in games. If multiple players had Kren signature bats come to market with strong provenance, it would clear up some of the confusion of the place for endorsed Kren bats in the game used space.

danesei@yahoo.com
08-13-2014, 10:06 PM
I just realized that entire portion of what I posted originally is missing. I meant to say until the H&B verdict that forced other manufacturers to acknowledge H&B's endorsement contracts with players.