Reggie White Super Bowl Jersey

[swainer]

I'm curious to see how high this one goes. There are a lot of great items in this auction. I'd love the Barry Sanders Helmet. I've never really heard of Worthridge but I'm not an auction house guru.

Peace,

John


http://www.worthridge.com/Reggie-White-Super-Bowl-XXXII-Game-Worn-Jersey-Pac-LOT107.aspx

[VISUALCONCEPTSNJ]

I'm curious to see how high this one goes. There are a lot of great items in this auction. I'd love the Barry Sanders Helmet. I've never really heard of Worthridge but I'm not an auction house guru.

Peace,

John


http://www.worthridge.com/Reggie-White-Super-Bowl-XXXII-Game-Worn-Jersey-Pac-LOT107.aspx

The Sanders helmet is all wrong and doesn't even come close to anything worn by Barry that season especially from hi-res pics from that Pro Bowl...

Back bumper sticker is all wrong and look at the SHORT stripes...
I was initially excited when I first saw it for I wanted to pair it with my 1995 Photomatched Barry Sanders jersey but once I started looking into it, I realized it wasn't what I was hoping it would be... :/

Just trying to help...

[VISUALCONCEPTSNJ]

The Sanders helmet is all wrong and doesn't even come close to anything worn by Barry that season especially from hi-res pics from that Pro Bowl...

Back bumper sticker is all wrong and look at the SHORT stripes...
I was initially excited when I first saw it for I wanted to pair it with my 1995 Photomatched Barry Sanders jersey but once I started looking into it, I realized it wasn't what I was hoping it would be... :/

Just trying to help...

...

[VISUALCONCEPTSNJ]

...

This is the 1995 Lions back bumper decal... (the one on the back of the helmet in auction looks like it was taken off of a kid's toy...)

[bgakladd]

VISUAL.....I agree 100%. I don't think this was his 1995 regular season helmet or 1996 Pro Bowl helmet. Jim Lachey #78 (Washington Redskins) once told us about his trip to the Pro Bowls in the early 90's and how the players would exchange game worn equipment with each other. He brought out an Emmitt Smith Cowboys jersey from his attic he said he got from Emmitt after the 1991 Pro Bowl exchange. It was signed and had no game use what so ever. It even had the new retail style tagging still attached, Apex if I remember correctly. But definitely an issued road white style jersey the Cowboys would have worn. I know the guy that still has it, one of Jim's friends. I'm "guessing" that is probably what happened with the Barry Sanders helmet if a helmet was given to Reggie White after the game. Barry gave him something other than his game helmet, either a practice helmet or something from the equipment room of the Lions and Reggie White or someone in his family took it as being his game worn '96 ProBowl helmet. The helmet definitely look good as far as an issued style Lions helmet. I can't explain the odd style decal added to the rear bumper unless someone in Reggie's family added that. Just guessing and my opinion on the helmet.

[JDubbs73]

I see this one differently. The only substantial deviation from the game photos is the decal on the rear bumper. It may have been removed for anonymity for the Pro Bowl, been added specifically for the Pro Bowl or potentially even removed entirely (original label) and then added as an afterthought (current label).

I believe the face mask was changed specifically for the Pro Bowl game (I own a helmet to which this was also done). It certainly appears that the silver screws adjacent to the Riddell label match the photos from the February 1996 contest (they appear to be black during the 1995 reg. season). The straps and mouth piece are consistent with the Pro Bowl photos. I like the labels on the back, and believe that the dark markings around (and underneath) the warning label are present in many game photos during the 1995 season.

I wouldn't fret over the shortened striping at the front of the helmet. I think this is common with many taped stripes on older helmets.

If I were considering the lid, I'd confirm all of the date identifiers before bidding. However, I don't share the same concerns expressed in this thread. I like it and believe it to be authentic. Again, just another man's opinion. Best of luck to those who chase it!

[VISUALCONCEPTSNJ]

I see this one differently. The only substantial deviation from the game photos is the decal on the rear bumper. It may have been removed for anonymity for the Pro Bowl, been added specifically for the Pro Bowl or potentially even removed entirely (original label) and then added as an afterthought (current label).

I believe the face mask was changed specifically for the Pro Bowl game (I own a helmet to which this was also done). It certainly appears that the silver screws adjacent to the Riddell label match the photos from the February 1996 contest (they appear to be black during the 1995 reg. season). The straps and mouth piece are consistent with the Pro Bowl photos. I like the labels on the back, and believe that the dark markings around (and underneath) the warning label are present in many game photos during the 1995 season.

I wouldn't fret over the shortened striping at the front of the helmet. I think this is common with many taped stripes on older helmets.

If I were considering the lid, I'd confirm all of the date identifiers before bidding. However, I don't share the same concerns expressed in this thread. I like it and believe it to be authentic. Again, just another man's opinion. Best of luck to those who chase it!

Jason,

why not worry about the short stripes above the Riddell plate on the front?! Short stripes like that NEVER appear in any 1995 game photos or in the 1996 Pro Bowl... That makes it IMPOSSIBLE to be regular season or Pro Bowl worn especially if it was supposedly given to Reggie after the game (that means the striped would've never had time to be changed by the equipment room)... Then on top of that the rear bumper decal... too much just doesn't add up for me to ever feel comfortable with it... Just too many Bad Barry Sanders items popping up in the hobby lately. This is just my opinion though...
If you would, please post pics of what black marks that you feel line up... I'm very curious to see what you are referring to.
Also, I feel that the mouth piece on the helmet being auctioned looks BRAND NEW...
Thanks so much,
Jay

[swainer]

I truly appreciate everyone's responses!!! Very interesting!

[VISUALCONCEPTSNJ]

I see this one differently. The only substantial deviation from the game photos is the decal on the rear bumper. It may have been removed for anonymity for the Pro Bowl, been added specifically for the Pro Bowl or potentially even removed entirely (original label) and then added as an afterthought (current label).

I believe the face mask was changed specifically for the Pro Bowl game (I own a helmet to which this was also done). It certainly appears that the silver screws adjacent to the Riddell label match the photos from the February 1996 contest (they appear to be black during the 1995 reg. season). The straps and mouth piece are consistent with the Pro Bowl photos. I like the labels on the back, and believe that the dark markings around (and underneath) the warning label are present in many game photos during the 1995 season.

I wouldn't fret over the shortened striping at the front of the helmet. I think this is common with many taped stripes on older helmets.

If I were considering the lid, I'd confirm all of the date identifiers before bidding. However, I don't share the same concerns expressed in this thread. I like it and believe it to be authentic. Again, just another man's opinion. Best of luck to those who chase it!
I totally understand that certain parts of helmets can be changed during the course of the season… but look how many inconsistencies are present from October of 1995…

[JDubbs73]

Hey Jay - All good points, and I certainly appreciate your position and concerns. I'm not advocating the helmet, rather just simply stating that I would feel comfortable with it. In full disclosure, I have no intention of pursuing it. Any potential buyer must conduct their own due diligence and establish their own comfort level. There is always risk.

I'll offer my take on your comments below, and break it up over a couple posts.

[QUOTE]Short stripes like that NEVER appear in any 1995 game photos or in the 1996 Pro Bowl...[QUOTE]

Agree. However, these could have been trimmed or manicured anytime after the fact by White (or anyone in possession of it). These are taped on. The tape may have peeled at a certain point or receded as a result of storage (humidity, etc.). The Craig and Green helmets also have receding or shortened stripes. It appears that the adhesive residue is still present on the left side of the picture included below, which would lead me to conclude that these were longer while in use.

[JDubbs73]

If you would, please post pics of what black marks that you feel line up... I'm very curious to see what you are referring to.
The photos below represent the markings to which I referred earlier. I, personally, feel like they are consistent with the helmet offered. The photos represent games from October (Redskins), November (Bears away) and December (Bears home) of 1995.

[JDubbs73]

I totally understand that certain parts of helmets can be changed during the course of the season… but look how many inconsistencies are present from October of 1995…
The placement of the Lions' sticker in this comparison made me scratch my head, as it is clearly off from the photo that you posted. However, when you compare the helmet offered to the photos from the Pro Bowl in 1996 (including yours below), it appears that the mascot logo was move or replaced prior to the game. It does sit lower than the October 1995 photo.

I also like the apparent hit mark just below the Lions' logo front paw and the black mark on the top rail of the face mask. I feel these are present in the photo offered below.

I agree the mouthpiece looks new. My guess is that it was for the Pro Bowl. The photos show a clear mouth piece attached with a white string. During the 1995 season, it appears these may have both been blue in many games.

Unfortunately, I have nothing in terms of photo evidence to support the rear bumper. The entire inside of the helmet may have been swapped out for its final game, perhaps causing the inconsistency. It would seem to hold some water given the 1996 recertification sticker. But this is purely a swag on my part.

Are any of my points 100% conclusive? Doubtful. But they offer me enough to get comfortable with the helmet. Again, best of luck to anyone that pursues it. Cheers!

[VISUALCONCEPTSNJ]

The photos below represent the markings to which I referred earlier. I, personally, feel like they are consistent with the helmet offered. The photos represent games from October (Redskins), November (Bears away) and December (Bears home) of 1995.

Jason... With the photos that you provided, you actually just helped prove my point even further...

Have a look at how far the Lion's front paw is from the face mask and the rivet in the helmet that you circled. The lion is MUCH higher in the game photos than on this helmet...

The NFL shield on the back of the helmet is much higher on the helmet in the game pics as well (PIC WHERE BARRY IS GETTING HIS SNEAKER CLEANED OUT)...

Also, Reggie White trimmed the front stripes after Barry supposedly gave him the helmet?!?! Really??? LOL

[VISUALCONCEPTSNJ]

The placement of the Lions' sticker in this comparison made me scratch my head, as it is clearly off from the photo that you posted. However, when you compare the helmet offered to the photos from the Pro Bowl in 1996 (including yours below), it appears that the mascot logo was move or replaced prior to the game. It does sit lower than the October 1995 photo.

I also like the apparent hit mark just below the Lions' logo front paw and the black mark on the top rail of the face mask. I feel these are present in the photo offered below.

I agree the mouthpiece looks new. My guess is that it was for the Pro Bowl. The photos show a clear mouth piece attached with a white string. During the 1995 season, it appears these may have both been blue in many games.

Unfortunately, I have nothing in terms of photo evidence to support the rear bumper. The entire inside of the helmet may have been swapped out for its final game, perhaps causing the inconsistency. It would seem to hold some water given the 1996 recertification sticker. But this is purely a swag on my part.

Are any of my points 100% conclusive? Doubtful. But they offer me enough to get comfortable with the helmet. Again, best of luck to anyone that pursues it. Cheers!

That is NOT a hit mark below the Lion's paw... It's a rivet in the helmet which is on ALL of them...

[JDubbs73]

Jay, like I said previously, I respect your opinion and position. I would expect the same courtesy, even if you disagree with mine.

[VISUALCONCEPTSNJ]

Jay, like I said previously, I respect your opinion and position. I would expect the same courtesy, even if you disagree with mine.

I absolutely respect and appreciate your opinion and position as well as everyone else's on this forum... I will not speak anymore on this helmet... This will be my last response to it but I would like to leave you with just one last thing to think about...
I think with the picture that you provided with the lion's paw placement had a lot to do with the angle that the photo was taken at. If you look at Barry directly from the side during the Pro Bowl game, you can see it is much further away...

Once again, I only try to respectfully help... and Congrats to whoever wins the helmet.

[VISUALCONCEPTSNJ]

I absolutely respect and appreciate your opinion and position as well as everyone else's on this forum... I will not speak anymore on this helmet... This will be my last response to it but I would like to leave you with just one last thing to think about...
I think with the picture that you provided with the lion's paw placement had a lot to do with the angle that the photo was taken at. If you look at Barry directly from the side during the Pro Bowl game, you can see it is much further away...

Once again, I only try to respectfully help... and Congrats to whoever wins the helmet.
...

[JDubbs73]

I absolutely respect and appreciate your opinion and position as well as everyone else's on this forum...
Thanks, Jay. I appreciate it.


That is NOT a hit mark below the Lion's paw... It's a rivet in the helmet which is on ALL of them...

FWIW, I was referring to the scratch or mark immediately adjacent to the rivet. This, too, will be my last post on this thread. Best of luck!

[helmets]

The black mark that you have shown in your photos is the triangular Riddell logo that is printed onto the back of his helmet. His helmet throughout the 1995 regular season had this logo on the rear. His helmet during the 1996 season also did. The helmet in the auction does not. This logo is very difficult to remove - taking a long time and alot of effort unless you don't care about the paint. Not sure what the black marks on the rear of the auction helmet are, but they do not look like the Riddell logo, nor a Riddell logo that has been removed. Until I see a photo of the rear of the helmet in the ProBowl, I am a bit skeptical.

The mask looks good to me. Sanders usually wore an OPO but in 1995 he wore the OPO single wire like the helmet in the auction. Also, I agree with Dubbs on the mouthguard.

The stripes don't bother me. Vinyl shrinks. I own a lot of helmets where the stripes have shrunk up a bit an leave a gap between their end and the front bumper. Same with side logos - they also shrink a bit. That is why on most older helmets you see the dirty "ring" around the logos - from the adhesive where the vinyl logo has shrunk. I own several Lions helmets and they all have the stripes installed flush with the nose bumper. In other words, the equipment manager installs the stripes without removing or loosening the mask. Over time they will shrink up a bit thus leaving a gap. I doubt anyone trimmed these...

The rear bumper decal font is a bit puzzling. They did not go to this font until Matt Millan came along, changed the logo, put black into the uniforms and helmets stripes, and thought that it would help him win - instead of better drafting. You will see this font on Lions helmets from the 2000's - not from 1995.

[paul457]

The black mark that you have shown in your photos is the triangular Riddell logo that is printed onto the back of his helmet. His helmet throughout the 1995 regular season had this logo on the rear. His helmet during the 1996 season also did. The helmet in the auction does not. This logo is very difficult to remove - taking a long time and alot of effort unless you don't care about the paint.

The rear bumper decal font is a bit puzzling.

Some of the black Riddell logos were decals, which might explain some of the leftover goo by the warning label. Not sure of the timeframe of when they used painted logos vs decals. But if the helmet was reconditioned the painted logo would be erased, unless Riddell did all of the reconditioning in 1995.

The bumper decal is...

What are the theories on the true source of this helmet? I mean, Reggie's estate has hundreds go legit items in this auction, why question this piece? Given the source, and the number of attributes on this helmet that do line up, I'm considering going after this helmet.

[UGA-1]

Surely someone has a video from this game to get a look at the rear of the helmet. Anyways, here is what I see....

1- The bottom rivet appears to line up with the lions decal rear paw. No issue there.
2- The chinstrap appears to have the same buckle location on strap. No issue.
3- But, what appears to be the upper rivet (next to the tail)is higher in the game photo when compared to the auction helmet.
4- Not the best pic to use, but there looks like other scuffs on the lion and rear of helmet that are not on the auction helmet.


Please take this for what it is... another opinion. Good luck to anyone bidding.

[helmets]

Some of the black Riddell logos were decals, which might explain some of the leftover goo by the warning label. Not sure of the timeframe of when they used painted logos vs decals. But if the helmet was reconditioned the painted logo would be erased, unless Riddell did all of the reconditioning in 1995.

The decals did not replace the Riddell printed logo until at least 2000. Riddell's reconditioning in 1995 was All American which used a small shield size decal on the inside or outside of the helmet as seen on most of the Cowboys helmets, 49ers helmets, and Lions helmets from this era.

Good luck on the auction.

[VISUALCONCEPTSNJ]

Surely someone has a video from this game to get a look at the rear of the helmet. Anyways, here is what I see....

1- The bottom rivet appears to line up with the lions decal rear paw. No issue there.
2- The chinstrap appears to have the same buckle location on strap. No issue.
3- But, what appears to be the upper rivet (next to the tail)is higher in the game photo when compared to the auction helmet.
4- Not the best pic to use, but there looks like other scuffs on the lion and rear of helmet that are not on the auction helmet.


Please take this for what it is... another opinion. Good luck to anyone bidding.
AWESOME observation… While looking at your side by side comparison, another thing jumped out at me as well…

[jhunt28]

Amazing... I thought this helmet was going to sneak through the cracks...I guess I'll show you guys the nail in the coffin so you can see that this was Barry's helmet. Although the only problem is that I'm pretty sure this was a backup helmet, with the only evidence of game use being in the 1996 Pro Bowl. Although I still hope visual contacts stays out of the bidding!


http://www.apimages.com/metadata/Index/NFL-AP-S-FBN-USA-NFLNY01-NFL-Historical-Imagery/d39cfcb11a5f45569722d102297c11d4/4/0

[VISUALCONCEPTSNJ]

Amazing... I thought this helmet was going to sneak through the cracks...I guess I'll show you guys the nail in the coffin so you can see that this was Barry's helmet. Although the only problem is that I'm pretty sure this was a backup helmet, with the only evidence of game use being in the 1996 Pro Bowl. Although I still hope visual contacts stays out of the bidding!


http://www.apimages.com/metadata/Index/NFL-AP-S-FBN-USA-NFLNY01-NFL-Historical-Imagery/d39cfcb11a5f45569722d102297c11d4/4/0

;)

[VISUALCONCEPTSNJ]

;)
To be totally honest... I have my holy grail Sanders piece that is 10000%. I am not totally convinced about this helmet and have absolutely no interest in it whatsoever. I will not be involved in the bidding process... Best of luck.
:cool:

[808jerseys]

During the 1994 Pro Bowl , as well as through 2000's. I've noticed some players having more than one game helmet from their team with them. This trend seem to have started after 3 of the Dallas Cowboys got their helmets stolen from their lockers. I've also noticed players have traded helmets before the Pro Bowl game. Then on game day the same 2 players would be wearing their own team helmet. So it seems that the back up issue for the helmet, has turned into just more to trade with other players.
So my thought on Barry's lid is he could have had more than one during Pro Bowl week.

[VISUALCONCEPTSNJ]

Amazing... I thought this helmet was going to sneak through the cracks...I guess I'll show you guys the nail in the coffin so you can see that this was Barry's helmet. Although the only problem is that I'm pretty sure this was a backup helmet, with the only evidence of game use being in the 1996 Pro Bowl. Although I still hope visual contacts stays out of the bidding!


http://www.apimages.com/metadata/Index/NFL-AP-S-FBN-USA-NFLNY01-NFL-Historical-Imagery/d39cfcb11a5f45569722d102297c11d4/4/0
I would like to apologize to the forum for any inaccurate information/ opinion that I may have posted earlier about this Barry Sanders helmet...
This thread and the real/ fake theories really got me interested over the past few days and truly inspired me to dig even deeper to come to a conclusion that is true fact and not just possibility.
After several hours of research, hi-res photos, and game film, I can 100% say (IN MY OPINION) that THIS IS the helmet that Barry Sanders wore in the 1996 Pro Bowl game... Here is the proof and the PHOTOMATCHES!!!!
THIS HAS TOO BE THE MOST AMAZING GAME WORN ITEM THAT I HAVE EVER SEEN IN ALL MY YEARS OF COLLECTING!!! ABSOLUTELY BREATHTAKING...

Good Luck to all and P.S.... VISUALCONCEPTSNJ is back in the bidding!!! ;)

[VISUALCONCEPTSNJ]

I would like to apologize to the forum for any inaccurate information/ opinion that I may have posted earlier about this Barry Sanders helmet...
This thread and the real/ fake theories really got me interested over the past few days and truly inspired me to dig even deeper to come to a conclusion that is true fact and not just possibility.
After several hours of research, hi-res photos, and game film, I can 100% say (IN MY OPINION) that THIS IS the helmet that Barry Sanders wore in the 1996 Pro Bowl game... Here is the proof and the PHOTOMATCHES!!!!
THIS HAS TOO BE THE MOST AMAZING GAME WORN ITEM THAT I HAVE EVER SEEN IN ALL MY YEARS OF COLLECTING!!! ABSOLUTELY BREATHTAKING...

Good Luck to all and P.S.... VISUALCONCEPTSNJ is back in the bidding!!! ;)

...

[jhunt28]

You're not making this easy for me

[JDubbs73]

Good Luck to all and P.S.... VISUALCONCEPTSNJ is back in the bidding!!! ;)
Good luck Jay, jhunt28, and to everyone else bidding...it's a great looking helmet!

[VISUALCONCEPTSNJ]

Good luck Jay, jhunt28, and to everyone else bidding...it's a great looking helmet!
Thanks so much...

[xsentrixsupra]

Best of luck to all the people bidding on the Barry helmet. Thing passed the 20k mark! Looks like whoever wins it though will be getting a solid piece of history

[UGA-1]

I am also glad I was wrong about this helmet. I agree this is the best Barry item ever auctioned. Does anyone need to sell one of his jerseys to get this lid??? I'm looking for one. Good luck to all!!

[jhunt28]

Clearly I'm interested in the helmet...but what are people's thoughts on the value of a "pro bowl" helmet that looks like it has only been documented to have been worn for one game? Given the rarity of a Barry helmet, how much does this diminish the value?

I own a helmet that came from a star qb that was obtained from the pro bowl, and is matched to every game of the year. I also own a helmet from a star qb that can be matched to the pro bowl, but only 3 other regular season games.

How do you think these attributes affect each helmets value?

[jake33]

For this same auction,

I question the Hardy Nickerson helmet...

Nickerson never wore that facemask, never had that padding as well.
The front forhead pad has been removed too.
Chin Strap does not match as well.
Wonder if this was a backup helmet with new parts put on it.
Would be interested to know the story of this.

The facesmak is similar to Brad Culpepper's style, but couldn't find a pic of him with a black soft chinstrap

http://www.worthridge.com/Hardy-Nickerson-Game-Worn-Used-and-Signed-Tampa-Bay--LOT99.aspx

[VISUALCONCEPTSNJ]

Clearly I'm interested in the helmet...but what are people's thoughts on the value of a "pro bowl" helmet that looks like it has only been documented to have been worn for one game? Given the rarity of a Barry helmet, how much does this diminish the value?

I own a helmet that came from a star qb that was obtained from the pro bowl, and is matched to every game of the year. I also own a helmet from a star qb that can be matched to the pro bowl, but only 3 other regular season games.

How do you think these attributes affect each helmets value?

Obviously I'm very interested in the helmet as well and view it the same way that I would a Michael Jordan photo matched All Star game jersey. Very unique and rare. Also only used for one game but I would pay more to own that than an ordinary regular season game worn jersey any day...
I feel that this being a Pro Bowl worn helmet helps the value rather than hurt it... but then again- that's just me...
although there is no solid proof YET, this helmet has a 1996 recon sticker inside which means it was recon'd after Dec 1995 and before Feb 1996... so there is a good chance that it could've been used in the 1994 or/ and 1995 regular season but not an easy match due to the recon right before the Pro Bowl... Especially due to the fact that the Lions recycled equipment like crazy back in the 90's...
just something to think about... ;)

[paul457]

Clearly I'm interested in the helmet...but what are people's thoughts on the value of a "pro bowl" helmet that looks like it has only been documented to have been worn for one game?

Given the rarity of finding a true, documented Sanders piece, in my opinion it wouldn't diminish the value. How many legit Sanders helmets have traded hands? I don't remember one. The fact that it came from Reggie White's estate also adds to its history.

I'll be jumping into the ring on this shortly, good luck to everyone! :)

[Phil316]

Some great info here.

I hope to win several key pieces to my collection.

I already got outbid on the Sanders helmet but am not done quite yet.

Good luck to everyone and may the man with the deepest pockets win lol

[jhunt28]

Any guesses on the final hammer? I cannot see it topping the Walter Payton lid for $68k....

[VISUALCONCEPTSNJ]

Any guesses on the final hammer? I cannot see it topping the Walter Payton lid for $68k....
If someone will beat what I'm feeling my max bid will be, it will definitely beat that Walter Payton… jus saying. ;)

[VISUALCONCEPTSNJ]

I'm feel in like Clubber Lang in Rocky III… "I can"t Be Beat and I won't be beat!!!!!"

[jhunt28]

I liked you much better when you thought it wasn't legit, and you were happy with your Barry jersey!!!

[Phil316]

I liked you much better when you thought it wasn't legit, and you were happy with your Barry jersey!!!

lol

[Phil316]

I have never done business with this company and just noticed they only take check, money order and wire transfer. Needless to say I am done bidding. I am not gonna take a chance losing 5 figures or more. Good luck to the bidders.

[paul457]

If someone will beat what I'm feeling my max bid will be, it will definitely beat that Walter Payton… jus saying. ;)

Let me get this straight. WP's career helmet went for $68k, and you're willing to spend more than that for a lightly used Barry Sanders backup helmet worn possibly once?

I'm calling BS. But... if you're willing to spend that much, and advertised it, I can definitely make sure you DO spend that much. :)

[paul457]

I have never done business with this company and just noticed they only take check, money order and wire transfer. Needless to say I am done bidding. I am not gonna take a chance losing 5 figures or more. Good luck to the bidders.

Most auction houses say that, but I've found that when push comes to shove, many of them will take a card.

Just don't ask them BEFORE the auction ends ;)

[xsentrixsupra]

I have never done business with this company and just noticed they only take check, money order and wire transfer. Needless to say I am done bidding. I am not gonna take a chance losing 5 figures or more. Good luck to the bidders.

I think the list of auction houses that don't accept cards is a lot longer than the ones that do. Pretty common practice I believe, but yeah, having 5 figures right out of your own checking account can make one uneasy!

[VISUALCONCEPTSNJ]

Let me get this straight. WP's career helmet went for $68k, and you're willing to spend more than that for a lightly used Barry Sanders backup helmet worn possibly once?

I'm calling BS. But... if you're willing to spend that much, and advertised it, I can definitely make sure you DO spend that much. :)

Notice the little Winky face at the end?! Just havin a Lil fun. I will make a good run at it- not 68k good. I'm a huge Barry Sanders fan but I'm not completely insane...
...and we definitely don't want to push to see what the max bid will be. :\

[paul457]

I'm calling BS. But... if you're willing to spend that much, and advertised it, I can definitely make sure you DO spend that much. :)

VCNJ - I'm just yanking your chain, however, I will likely be bidding against you so the price is going up. Not willing to reveal my hand just yet, but I'm more of a jersey collector, so I'm not sure how far I'm willing to take it.

It was a much easier decision when we all thought it might be fake. :p

[GMEN92]

Well after reading this thread it definitely had twists and turns.. But all seems to be adding up to a happy ending for someone.. Should be interesting to see where the bidding goes to..
And I was just checking the upcoming auctions as well and I seen a Barry Sanders Jersey in the upcoming heritage auction..
Maybe 2nd place guy on helmet gets the jersey.. :D
Not sure how to post a link.. But I'm sure someone could that. .

[swainer]

http://sports.ha.com/itm/football/1998-barry-sanders-game-worn-detroit-lions-jersey-andamp-pants-mears-a10/p/7115-116001.s#Photo

[urzaworld]

Great thread-Great input-Great researching Jay
-Harvey

[swainer]

Jay/Jason,

When you get some time, can you look at the jersey in Heritage. I'm no photo matching guru but I just don't see the photo matches mentioned in the auction. As always, I value your opinions!

Thanks!

John

[VISUALCONCEPTSNJ]

Jay/Jason,

When you get some time, can you look at the jersey in Heritage. I'm no photo matching guru but I just don't see the photo matches mentioned in the auction. As always, I value your opinions!

Thanks!

John

Hey John,

I actually had an opportunity to see this fine ensemble about a month ago prior to it hitting the Heritage Auction block... I am no expert but I did my usual extensive research on it... and for several reasons this time I will keep my opinion to myself...

[swainer]

Can you at least tell me if you will be entering the bidding? If you do not want to say, I understand.

Thanks Jay!

[VISUALCONCEPTSNJ]

Can you at least tell me if you will be entering the bidding? If you do not want to say, I understand.

Thanks Jay!

Absolutely not John... I will not be entering the bidding. That one is all yours!!! Lol

[swainer]

Thanks man. Unless something changes, I think I'm going to pass too. Good luck on the helmet!

Peace,

John

[VISUALCONCEPTSNJ]

Thanks man. Unless something changes, I think I'm going to pass too. Good luck on the helmet!

Peace,

John

Thanks...

[JDubbs73]

Jay/Jason,

When you get some time, can you look at the jersey in Heritage. I'm no photo matching guru but I just don't see the photo matches mentioned in the auction. As always, I value your opinions!

Thanks!

John
Hey John...I'm more than happy to look into it a bit further. However, I have some cursory concerns. My interest level is on this is pretty cold. I value Jay's opinion, and think his interest on this speaks volumes as well. Cheers!

[GMEN92]

Hey John,

I actually had an opportunity to see this fine ensemble about a month ago prior to it hitting the Heritage Auction block... I am no expert but I did my usual extensive research on it... and for several reasons this time I will keep my opinion to myself...

I would have to disagree with you James .. Aka visual
This jersey definitely matches up.. See attached pic ..

I find it funny how you bashed the helmet and told all it was fake and no way real..

Then all of a sudden the photo Match you provided saying it was fake all a sudden happen to show it was real..hmmmm

Perhaps it was a failed effort to downplay it so you can get it cheaper..

I personally looked into this sanders jersey and I found a few matches. So I guess your not the only one with a sanders matched jersey..

I don't see why you talk negative about stuff just to wind up putting your foot in your mouth, as we are all here to be helpful and educate one another..

Let's see maybe you just missed the photo match as you did with the helmet.. ??
I doubt it..
So I hope these matches help others see the truth and that it wouldn't be just another down playing by visual

[GMEN92]

Another match..

[GMEN92]

Here's the pants match..

[VISUALCONCEPTSNJ]

Here's the pants match..

First if all, I NEVER bashed it ERIC… OOPS! I mean Mike… I chose to keep my opinion to myself.

Second of all, I definitely DO NOT consider a wrinkle in THE WRONG place on a sleeve a Photomatch by any means. Those are the same (in my opinion) Pathetic supposed matches that were provided to me when I was originally shown this FANTASTIC uniform.

I missed absolutely nothing on this uniform and if I was looking to get anything cheaper as you say, I wouldnt've shown that it was good and that it did match until AFTER the auction was over. Hmmmm…

[VISUALCONCEPTSNJ]

First if all, I NEVER bashed it ERIC… OOPS! I mean Mike… I chose to keep my opinion to myself.

Second of all, I definitely DO NOT consider a wrinkle in THE WRONG place on a sleeve a Photomatch by any means. Those are the same (in my opinion) Pathetic supposed matches that were provided to me when I was originally shown this FANTASTIC uniform.

I missed absolutely nothing on this uniform and if I was looking to get anything cheaper as you say, I wouldnt've shown that it was good and that it did match until AFTER the auction was over. Hmmmm…

This is EXACTLY the reason right here Ladies and Gentlemen of why a wrinkle and a loose thread SHOULD NOT be considered a Photo Match in this great hobby of ours…

Here is Barry vs. Tampa Bay in 1998… Oh wow!!! Wrinkle on sleeve!!! Even better- Loose thread on bottom of "2"!!!! BUT……… (IN MY OPINION) Reebok logo in wrong position on shoulder. :(

NO MATCH!!! :eek:

[VISUALCONCEPTSNJ]

This is EXACTLY the reason right here Ladies and Gentlemen of why a wrinkle and a loose thread SHOULD NOT be considered a Photo Match in this great hobby of ours…

Here is Barry vs. Tampa Bay in 1998… Oh wow!!! Wrinkle on sleeve!!! Even better- Loose thread on bottom of "2"!!!! BUT……… (IN MY OPINION) Reebok logo in wrong position on shoulder. :(

NO MATCH!!! :eek:

…

[VISUALCONCEPTSNJ]

…
Better view…

[jhunt28]

I was starting to think this thread was headed in the right direction... Then WHAM!! Someone called out someone else in a terrifically passive aggressive way, and totally flips the tables!

I don't know visualconcepts, but he did publicly apologize for calling the Barry helmet junk, and said he made a mistake.

He also never said a word about the HA Barry uniform being good or bad? He just had "no comment". And I think he said he already owns a Barry jersey, so I'm sure he doesn't need another? But I could be speaking out of turn on that comment?

Visual seems like he has a terrific collection, And has provided this site with many great jerseys and many great matches. So I think we should keep the conspiracy theories about his auction gamesmanship to a minimum. I'd hate to lose another great collector to the pettiness of this site.

[VISUALCONCEPTSNJ]

I was starting to think this thread was headed in the right direction... Then WHAM!! Someone called out someone else in a terrifically passive aggressive way, and totally flips the tables!

I don't know visualconcepts, but he did publicly apologize for calling the Barry helmet junk, and said he made a mistake.

He also never said a word about the HA Barry uniform being good or bad? He just had "no comment". And I think he said he already owns a Barry jersey, so I'm sure he doesn't need another? But I could be speaking out of turn on that comment?

Visual seems like he has a terrific collection, And has provided this site with many great jerseys and many great matches. So I think we should keep the conspiracy theories about his auction gamesmanship to a minimum. I'd hate to lose another great collector to the pettiness of this site.
Thank you so much…

[GMEN92]

First off I'm not going by anything that was shown to you or not.. I'm going by what I found and what my thoughts are on it..

Just as you stated the rivets and the Lions paw are a different distance on the helmet then changed that opinion which is exactly what it is an opinion to say that it was OK .. Hmm

All I am stating is exactly what I found. And the ones I believe we're a match. I don't justify what James says is a match or not that's just his opinion as my opinion is my own..

And as we seen with the helmet he was incorrect.. So just because he makes circles and says it's NO MATCH. He must be correct??

Why didn't you mention the other photo where the jersey holes line up exactly?? Is that not a exact match.. Looks like it is to me.

[GMEN92]

Jhunt.. I never once mentioned anything of his collection.. Alls I said was about his "opinions" on matches..

[VISUALCONCEPTSNJ]

I would have to disagree with you James .. Aka visual
This jersey definitely matches up.. See attached pic ..

I find it funny how you bashed the helmet and told all it was fake and no way real..

Then all of a sudden the photo Match you provided saying it was fake all a sudden happen to show it was real..hmmmm

Perhaps it was a failed effort to downplay it so you can get it cheaper..

I personally looked into this sanders jersey and I found a few matches. So I guess your not the only one with a sanders matched jersey..

I don't see why you talk negative about stuff just to wind up putting your foot in your mouth, as we are all here to be helpful and educate one another..

Let's see maybe you just missed the photo match as you did with the helmet.. ??
I doubt it..
So I hope these matches help others see the truth and that it wouldn't be just another down playing by visual
I must admit, very impressive side by side presentation… but why focus on the blurry jumbled bottom part of the "2" and cut off the top part that clearly tells it all?!?!

[VISUALCONCEPTSNJ]

Jhunt.. I never once mentioned anything of his collection.. Alls I said was about his "opinions" on matches..
My opinions and my side by sides are only to try to help the hobby in the best way that I can. I am no expert by any means and yes I do make mistakes at times and am glad to admit when I am wrong… I never make mistakes purposely for any dishonest reasons…

I have been involved in way too many bashings over the years on this forum and quite honestly find it annoying and exhausting…
I am done talking about this jersey and will return to my original statement…
I have NO COMMENT and I will NOT be bidding on it…
Best of luck to anyone who does...

[GMEN92]

First off..
Can you show the larger version of the "2" your showing ..
I find it odd the the bottom matches so good but not the top..

Secondly you know that's not my side by side as you seen that weeks ago as well that's Marshall's view on the jersey .. So we both know him and he does very quality matches ..

Third how can you bash using loose threads to say its a match or not ..
If I not mistaken isn't that the way you matched your Brady jersey ..?

As others are interested in the jersey and so am I .. Also awaiting video of the game to try and better match it ..

I thank anyone in advance if they can help as well ..as they did with the helmet..
I agree that's what the forum is good for.. And hope others will give there points as well

And visual as you stated your negative opinion on the helmet.. Didn't you already have the photos of the match at that time you made those remarks ..As I'm the one that got you all the pics you used. .So seems funny to me..

But enough about the helmet and that story.. Good luck to all bidding..

And again if anyone else can chime in on the jersey I would appreciate it..

[VISUALCONCEPTSNJ]

I would have to disagree with you James .. Aka visual
This jersey definitely matches up.. See attached pic ..

I find it funny how you bashed the helmet and told all it was fake and no way real..

Then all of a sudden the photo Match you provided saying it was fake all a sudden happen to show it was real..hmmmm

Perhaps it was a failed effort to downplay it so you can get it cheaper..

I personally looked into this sanders jersey and I found a few matches. So I guess your not the only one with a sanders matched jersey..

I don't see why you talk negative about stuff just to wind up putting your foot in your mouth, as we are all here to be helpful and educate one another..

Let's see maybe you just missed the photo match as you did with the helmet.. ??
I doubt it..
So I hope these matches help others see the truth and that it wouldn't be just another down playing by visual

I used the same "2" that you provided in your posting on the left side with the yellow circles and here is the "2" off of the Auction site which clearly shows the mesh pattern inside the top part. I had that photo that I posted of the top part of the "2" saved from when the jersey was presented to me for sale the first time around… I think it was taken of the jersey from the owners cell phone or something and sent to me through a mutual collector when the item was being offered.

Why would you say that you have provided me with photos?!?! When you definitely have NOT…

This is just getting way too weird for me… :confused:

But anyway...Just because I was not interested in this fine ensemble the first time around, was asked "my opinion" this time around and chose to give "no comment" and clearly stated that I would not bid on it *once again when asked* I don't feel that this should have escalated to this level. When "matches" were provided, I simply showed the areas of the jersey "in my opinion" that I was uncomfortable with, I don't feel deserves a full on attack, does it?!
This is America. Everyone can buy what they choose to, bid on what they choose to, and should not be personally attacked, criticized or judged if they do not want an item or do not feel comfortable with something.
I NEVER once said the jersey/ uniform was bad. It just simply isn't for me. THAT'S IT.
Once again… I am NOT interested in this item. I will NOT be bidding on this item. I am not an expert in this hobby or in photo matching. I do the best that I can to contribute to the hobby for the enjoyment of it and anything that I post is simply OPINION and NOT FACT!!! Once again… There are no ulterior motives behind any of my postings.
If I was trying to pull a fast one with the Barry helmet, wouldn't I have posted the MATCHES AFTER the auction closed and saved myself a ton of money on it during the bidding process?!?! NO!!! I don't operate that way. I provided the matches now and apologized publicly so everyone would have a fair shot at it and know exactly that they were bidding on a genuine piece… Think about that for a minute… :rolleyes:
Again… Good Luck to all in all of the auctions...

[VISUALCONCEPTSNJ]

First off..
Can you show the larger version of the "2" your showing ..
I find it odd the the bottom matches so good but not the top..

Secondly you know that's not my side by side as you seen that weeks ago as well that's Marshall's view on the jersey .. So we both know him and he does very quality matches ..

Third how can you bash using loose threads to say its a match or not ..
If I not mistaken isn't that the way you matched your Brady jersey ..?

As others are interested in the jersey and so am I .. Also awaiting video of the game to try and better match it ..

I thank anyone in advance if they can help as well ..as they did with the helmet..
I agree that's what the forum is good for.. And hope others will give there points as well

And visual as you stated your negative opinion on the helmet.. Didn't you already have the photos of the match at that time you made those remarks ..As I'm the one that got you all the pics you used. .So seems funny to me..

But enough about the helmet and that story.. Good luck to all bidding..

And again if anyone else can chime in on the jersey I would appreciate it..

Final comment…

The Brady jersey was matched by hit marks by on the front of the jersey and shoulder A loose thread on the back in the correct spot ADDED to it. That jersey was also authenticated by a Premier company in the hobby as well to make it 1000% rock solid. Before It was authenticated, the Brady jersey too was photo matched in MY OPINION...

Also, I was provided the hi res helmet photos late at night (because the mutual collector that provided them is 3 hours behind me in time- west coast), I realized the helmet was good, did the collages, and posted my findings and apologized early the following morning/ afternoon (I really don't recall the time). Again, do not make false statements and say that YOU provided me with any photos because you definitely have NOT!!!
Say what you want from this point on but I promise you that you will not trigger another response out of me…
Thanks

[GMEN92]

Ask him where he got the pictures from...your welcome..

And agreed I'm done with it as well.. Just hoping someone else can provide some more on the jersey..

[UGA-1]

Does anyone have Lions jerseys from this time period to compare the repair style?? The repairs I see on this jersey are not like those I have seen on other Sanders jerseys. Can you guys with Barry jerseys or Lions jerseys check that?? Thanks in advance.

[Phil316]

The wear on the Sanders jersey in my opinion is not consistent. Especially around the collar. It looks almost new. It should be stretched a little and show some use.

[swainer]

Jay/Jason,

Thanks for your input. I didn't realize the thread would blow up into what it has. I initially thought the Reebok logos on the shoulders didn't seem to match the game day picture but like I said, I'm a novice when it comes to photo matching. I have a early 90's Jerry Ball jersey with a ton of team repairs. I can post pics of it if that will help. Otherwise I do not have much to add.

Again, I appreciate everyone's input!

Peace,

John

[jhunt28]

Well, not sure who won the Barry lid, but I came up a bid short. The kitchen cabinet fund won over! I did get my DVD of the Pro Bowl today...not much help in the discussion, but I'll post these pics for the winning bidder.

I couldn't find that black residue on the rear of the helmet, so that remains a mystery?

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=85045&stc=1&d=1404172111

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=85046&stc=1&d=1404172111

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=85047&stc=1&d=1404172111

[captainhaddock]

On the Darrell Green Skins helmet, was anyone able to match the player name on the back of the helmet (Cowboy-style) or the two NFL logos on the rear bumper? I haven't seen these on Skins helmets before, and would love to learn about the variations.

[mdallen22]

Jay - Hows the game film I sent you for that holy grail 95' jersey! :) Still bummed you outbid me!

I'd like to chime in on the Barry debate. I've requested additional photos and I am attempting to get multiple game films, but i'll share my analysis to date beyond what was already mentioned....Not sure how these attachments are going to turn out I may have to re-post them.

[GMEN92]

Thanks for your input. And nice work.. Glad to see some other peoples input..
I would have to agree with your thoughts on the front.. I copied the pic so it can be seen without using the link. Hope it works.. And let us know what you find out on the other photos.. Would it be possible as well were focused on this one game and it could be from an additional game as well. .. Just a thought

[VISUALCONCEPTSNJ]

Jay - Hows the game film I sent you for that holy grail 95' jersey! :) Still bummed you outbid me!

I'd like to chime in on the Barry debate. I've requested additional photos and I am attempting to get multiple game films, but i'll share my analysis to date beyond what was already mentioned....Not sure how these attachments are going to turn out I may have to re-post them.

LOL... The game film is great!!! Thanks again. :)
Maybe other game films will show something different but IN MY OPINION, you can put 3 sets of shoulder pads under this jersey and the reebok logo would NEVER move that far from it's stitched in position OVER the "2"... The Reebok logo is higher off the "2" in the auction pic unstretched over shoulder pads. Stretching the jersey over shoulder pads should add distance... No?! :confused:
IMPOSSIBLE...

[mdallen22]

LOL... The game film is great!!! Thanks again. :)
Maybe other game films will show something different but IN MY OPINION, you can put 3 sets of shoulder pads under this jersey and the reebok logo would NEVER move that far from it's stitched in position OVER the "2"... The Reebok logo is higher off the "2" in the auction pic unstretched over shoulder pads. Stretching the jersey over shoulder pads should add distance... No?! :confused:
IMPOSSIBLE...

I had HA send me additional photos, i'm waiting on more. The angle of the photo certainly doesn't help, but I tend to agree with you, the Reebok logo does look too displaced. It would be nice to see another photo to confirm this.

[mdallen22]

Additional photos....

[VISUALCONCEPTSNJ]

Additional photos....

EXACTLY... IN MY OPINION, THIS WOULD NEVER HAPPEN... :eek:

[VISUALCONCEPTSNJ]

Additional photos....

In my opinion, not only is the placement of the Reebok logo off in comparison to the 20... BUT ALSO look at the obvious distance mismatch from the sleeve seam. ***This was taken from the photo posted on the auction where the jersey is MATCHED?!?! :confused:

[VISUALCONCEPTSNJ]

Additional photos....

Even vs. Tampa Bay, the Reebok logo is too close to the shoulder seam... (I believe Barry wore the same jersey vs. the Bengals and Tampa Bay but in my opinion, this IS NOT that jersey...

[beachpetrol]

In the action photos of Barry, it looks like the jersey is "indented" or "sucked into" the shoulder pad because of the indentation at the end of the shoulder pad itself. Could this be the cause of the placement of the Reebok logo being off?

[VISUALCONCEPTSNJ]

In the action photos of Barry, it looks like the jersey is "indented" or "sucked into" the shoulder pad because of the indentation at the end of the shoulder pad itself. Could this be the cause of the placement of the Reebok logo being off?

Ummmmm... NO!

[bgakladd]

EXACTLY... IN MY OPINION, THIS WOULD NEVER HAPPEN... :eek: Found this shot on 1998 Lions vs. Bengals game on youtube. Reebok emblem to compare against auction jersey and Falcons game jersey. Hope it helps.

[bgakladd]

Found this shot on 1998 Lions vs. Bengals game on youtube. Reebok emblem to compare against auction jersey and Falcons game jersey. Hope it helps. Sorry. Tampa Bay game, not Falcons.

[swainer]

For what it's worth, here are some pictures of the team repairs on my 1991 Jerry Ball jersey. I forgot I said I'd post them.

Peace,

John

[VISUALCONCEPTSNJ]

Sorry. Tampa Bay game, not Falcons.

Reebok logo is STILL too far away from shoulder seam. This picture clearly shows it the best. Thanks so much.

[VISUALCONCEPTSNJ]

Well, not sure who won the Barry lid, but I came up a bid short. The kitchen cabinet fund won over! I did get my DVD of the Pro Bowl today...not much help in the discussion, but I'll post these pics for the winning bidder.

I couldn't find that black residue on the rear of the helmet, so that remains a mystery?

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=85045&stc=1&d=1404172111

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=85046&stc=1&d=1404172111

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=85047&stc=1&d=1404172111

Hi Mr. Hunt...

Could you please email me at visualconceptsnj@aol.com
I just have a quick question... Thanks so much


Jay