Benito Santiago Jersey on Goldin & eBay

[justrun7]

Hey, I am a bit confused by these two Benito Santiago San Diego Padres jersey's. One is on eBay and one is in the current Goldin Auctions. They both look legit and have both been authenticated by PSA. My only confusion is that these jersey's are exactly the same, both are autographed in the same spot and both are Set 2. The only difference is the PSA/DNA number.

Here is the eBay Santiago jersey:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Benito-Santiago-1990-San-Diego-Padres-Game-Worn-Signed-Home-Jersey-PSA-DNA-/200999686642?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ecc83d1f2

Here is the Goldin Santiago jersey:
http://www.goldinauctions.com/1990-Benito-Santiago-Signed-and-Game-Worn-San-Diego--LOT8348.aspx

Could someone help with information on these two jersey's for me?

[gingi79]

The autographs don't match. On the Goldin, it rubs the pinstripe, the eBay jersey doesn't touch it. I don't know if this is part of the Scoreboard deal however, the tagging and year seem to be pointing towards those kind of indicators.

[KGoldin]

Santiago never signed jerseys for score board and score board never ordered Santiago jerseys

[gingi79]

Ken, I wasn't trying to claim he did, simply that it seemed to follow that template. The year tagging, the similarities on multiple copies of a jersey etc.

[KGoldin]

No PROBEM
I am just clarifying that he wasn't a score board athlete

[Phil316]

Interesting. So Benito was issued 2 set 2's in 1990. Both authenticated as game used by Dave.

[Roady]

Interesting. So Benito was issued 2 set 2's in 1990. Both authenticated as game used by Dave.

.

[yanks12025]

I'm confused, I thought there's normally like acouple jerseys in each set. Like maybe 2-5 jerseys per set issued?

[metsbats]

These are not the same jerseys. The pinstripes do not match up on both.

[metsbats]

Photo unmatch in this case;)

[metsbats]

Sorry I thought we were saying these were the same jerseys.

[Phil316]

No,

I was saying how can two 1990 set 2's be worn by the same player. Both authenticated with light use, both signed in the same area.

I am sure some excuse will be given by Dave M. Just like the Fred McGriff Jersey he authenticated as game used. Even though Fred never wore a size 50 in his whole career.

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=59546

[Phil316]

I own a few Santiago jerseys from his days in Florida. They all show a great amount of use. Benito played hard and his jerseys if worn should show a good amount of use.

Those 2 Padres Santiagos's are at best signed issued jerseys.

[KGoldin]

I own a few Santiago jerseys from his days in Florida. They all show a great amount of use. Benito played hard and his jerseys if worn should show a good amount of use.

Those 2 Padres Santiagos's are at best signed issued jerseys.
I have contacted Dave, and if needed the Santiago jersey will be pulled

[R. C. Walker]

If any one is seriously considering either one of the Santiago jerseys, and did their homework, one can be photo matched to a baseball card and the other is a close match to a very popular photo.

Do the footwork instead of speculating . . . .

[DeacDoug]

Rawlings jerseys distributed at season's outset during this period were tagged set 1, and those distributed at later dates were tagged set 2. Thus, the set 1 and 2 tagging does not have the traditional meaning of earlier years. There is likely more than one set 1 and set 2 for each player.

[Phil316]

If any one is seriously considering either one of the Santiago jerseys, and did their homework, one can be photo matched to a baseball card and the other is a close match to a very popular photo.

Do the footwork instead of speculating . . . .

Please feel free to post your photomatches. I would love to see them.

[justrun7]

Sorry, I should not have said that the jersey's are the exact same but that they are nearly identical. Both having the same set number and autographed in the same spot was where my confusion began. My apologies for any confusion or problems that my poor wording may have caused.

I have had Padres jersey from the 1990 season and the tagging was the same on both the home and away jerseys as on these Santiago jerseys. Does anyone know for sure if the Padres were issued multiple jersey's in their Set 2? If so, I can see both of these jerseys being legit Santiago jerseys.

[Phil316]

Here is something more confusing. That Santiago on ebay sold at Goldin auctions back in November 2013.

http://goldinauctions.com/Benito-Santiago-1990-San-Diego-Padres-Game-Worn-an-LOT6148.aspx

Here is the current offering

http://www.goldinauctions.com/1990-Benito-Santiago-Signed-and-Game-Worn-San-Diego--LOT8348.aspx

Both are different jerseys both come authenticated by Dave Miedema. Both are set 2 1990.

All 4 Padres jerseys that sold in that auction are Set 2 1990. All are signed in roughly the same spot in black pen. All show little to no wear.

http://www.goldinauctions.com/1990-Benito-Santiago-Signed-and-Game-Worn-San-Diego--LOT8348.aspx

http://goldinauctions.com/Mike-Pagliarulo-1990-Signed-Game-Worn-San-Diego-Pa-LOT6145.aspx


http://goldinauctions.com/Benito-Santiago-1990-San-Diego-Padres-Game-Worn-an-LOT6148.aspx

http://goldinauctions.com/Jack-Clark-1990-Signed-Game-Worn-San-Diego-Padres--LOT6147.aspx


I think the term "game worn/used" is used in situations where the jersey is simply team issued. If a jersey is clean and shows no wear especially from players like Gwynn, Santiago ect.... Who played hard, there is no way to prove it was worn or if it was issued. The fact that the tagging is correct does not mean it was game worn. I know that players could/can order jerseys for themselves among other things.

I also understand authenticators can be in a hurry especially if they have a mountain of items to authenticate. Sometimes it is better to take your time though and be thorough.

In closing I can only go by descriptions in auctions and pictures provided.

I am not accusing of anyone misleading or ripping people off intentionally. I love bidding and buying from auction sites. I have a few items in my collection even with Dave M letters.

[Phil316]

http://goldinauctions.com/Tony-Gwynn-1990-Signed-Game-Worn-San-Diego-Padres--LOT6133.aspx

Here is a link to the Gwynn set 2 1990. That should have been posted first in my examples of the 4 sold at Goldin.

[R. C. Walker]

Here is the card, in my opinion, matches the Santiago on eBay. As far as the one on Goldins’s, there are photos and cards that are close, but nothing definitive.

[Phil316]

Pretty close except the button placement is off.

[Phil316]

I also thought this might be a match to the ebay one.

[R. C. Walker]

Pretty close except the button placement is off.

I would agree with you on the button placement, if that were a button. But, the placement on Rawlings jerseys are set lower. If Santiago ever wore a Wilson, it would be a different story.
There has been an influx of 1990 Padres jerseys hit the market over that past six months or so both Home & Road, Set 1 & 2. All had varying degrees of use. In my opinion both Santiago’s are good.

Good Luck to whomever bids.

Rawlings
70481
Wilson
70482

[Phil316]

I guess we can agree ti disagree.

By the way are you the consignor of those Padres Jersey's?

[R. C. Walker]

Can't disagree with that . . . . No connection to either jersey.

PS: Would love to see your Florida examples of Santiago.

[Phil316]

I don't really post my collection online. I had a member of another forum steal a few of my pictures and try to sell the items he did not own on eBay. It was a very lo.g drawn out process to get them removed.

I would not mind if you emailed me phillipriddell at hotmail and I will send you over a few.

[Hoosier39]

I don't really post my collection online. I had a member of another forum steal a few of my pictures and try to sell the items he did not own on eBay. It was a very lo.g drawn out process to get them removed.

I would not mind if you emailed me phillipriddell at hotmail and I will send you over a few.

Well that's boring....

[sox83cubs84]

DeacDoug's explanation is right on the money. As chronological IDs, rather than what normally is a set number, there's no reason why Santiago and/or the Padres couldn't have ordered more than one after the season began. Not an excuse, just an assessment of the situations.

Dave Miedema

[Phil316]

DeacDoug's explanation is right on the money. As chronological IDs, rather than what normally is a set number, there's no reason why Santiago and/or the Padres couldn't have ordered more than one after the season began. Not an excuse, just an assessment of the situations.

Dave Miedema

Dave appreciate your reply.

In general my assessment is that authenticators perhaps authenticate sometimes more on assumption that fact. If a jersey is clean and shows no wear how can you conclude it was game worn? At best it would be team issued.

You cannot authenticate on assumption. You can only authenticate with facts. Authenticating on assumption gets you in trouble.

So whomever wins that Santiago that is currently ay auction just like the last 1990 set 2 that sold should not worry even though both showed little to no wear, both where signed in the same spot. Just like the Gwynn, Clark and Pagliarulo all signed roughly in the same spot, all 1990 set 2's and all show little to no wear.

Once again Dave I know your a stand up guy and you are doing your best. It is frustrating to watch this kind of stuff and not say anything. Hopefully you will understand my point of you.

[KGoldin]

Phil:
the question you should be asking is "Why isn't Ken Goldin pulling the Santiago jersey"
I mean, lets face it...most cases..someone sneezes, and I pull an item. I don't want anything even REMOTELY questionable appearing in goldin auctions
A reggie bush jersey comes with a USC LOA and a Mears LOA, someone on here brings up a valid issue, boom, its pulled. a Mourneau bat is graded a 9.5, 'his biggest fan' sends me a detailed email with multiple images of the way he applies pine tar to his bat, BOOM, its pulled.
I don't want any issues. I don't want anything even remotely questionable.

SO, WHY haven't I pulled a lousy 1990 Santiago jersey selling for a lousy $100??? I mean, I must be an idiot for leaving $100 item out there that you are questioning, right?
the answer is it was consigned by Joe Goldberg. Whoe received the jersey in person from the player. The description of Joe is in my introduction letter of the October Legends catalog. Joe ran several charities including the Yankees charities in the 70s and 80s, and dealt directly with the players, and was and is good friends with Mike Pagliarulo, who was a Yankee, and then a Padre. Mike is the one who got him access to Jack Clark and Benito, and the reasons all the Padres jerseys are signed in similar location and similar marker is because it was all done at the same time.

I am someone , who under contract, had players wear jerseys for 1 game only to use as a promotion, as early as 1989-1992, so the thought that Santiago would wear a 'light use' jersey to me, is not a strange one.

Believe me, I am trying to sell items I expect to sell for $150,000+ in this auction, and $1 million plus in the Ruth auction. I don't need this aggravation over $100 jersey. The easiest thing for me to do is pull it.
However, in this case, based on my consignor, the way he got the jersey, and the inspection of Dave, I think Benito wore the jersey, which is why it is in the auction. If I didn't, I would pull it.


I don't know what else to say. This post should say enough.

[Phil316]

Ken,

:eek:

You should have told me this to begin with lol. I will have to go back and check out the October catalogue.

I have not seen many jerseys like this that show little to no wear from these players. It concerns me, especially with what has happened recently with other auction houses.

Good luck in your auction Ken.

I appreciate you responding.

Phil.

PS Dave if I came off hard on you I am sorry. Like I said in previous posts I respect your opinion. So when I see something that seems off it bothers me. Had I known the situation I probably would not have said what I said however I am not privy to the info you guys have. I can only go on the pictures and description. :)

[sox83cubs84]

Ken,

:eek:

You should have told me this to begin with lol. I will have to go back and check out the October catalogue.

I have not seen many jerseys like this that show little to no wear from these players. It concerns me, especially with what has happened recently with other auction houses.

Good luck in your auction Ken.

I appreciate you responding.

Phil.

PS Dave if I came off hard on you I am sorry. Like I said in previous posts I respect your opinion. So when I see something that seems off it bothers me. Had I known the situation I probably would not have said what I said however I am not privy to the info you guys have. I can only go on the pictures and description. :)

Phil:

I know your comments are out of concern and I know they're not intended to be personal. Your thoughts are valid, and I am not offended by them.

Dave M.

[R. C. Walker]

Congratulation to the future winner of the "lousy" Santiago jersey for a "lousy" $100.
Seems some are getting a little touchy when it comes to Goldin Auction items being questioned. Spare me the lecture on the rules and follow them with the same zest when other auction house items come into question.

[flaco1801]

Tre auction houses have a lot of rules...When those items are pulled, what really happens? the auction house loses a sale and the items are returned and sold somewhere else...How about a rule where the items are returned with a mark denoting a questionable lineage??? you know why that wont happen, because the auction house sporting that rule would get no consignments....That would really help clean up the "industry" but the action house is just a business looking to maximize profits, to others it was a hobby....Taking an item and then pulling an item makes the auction house look comprimized, they should have the right to mark items that are returned as questionable.......and of all the uniforms that are game worn, catchers were ALWAYS beat up the most...the old days of 2 sets catchers were the only ones with set 3...(99 out of 100 times)

[kudu]

Trying to remember, did the Padres have "Shirts Off The Back" promos back in 1990?

[R. C. Walker]

From my recollection, I believe the Padres "Shirts Off The Back" promos started around '93 or '94.

[Mark17]

I hope this isn't off-topic. I've heard from many people that players like Joe Mauer basically wear a new jersey just about every game, so the club can sell them in their pro shops, and donate some to charity auctions and so on.

So my question is, aren't there a LOT of legitimate game used jerseys out there that don't show a lot of use? We've all seen game used bats that have just a couple ball or stitch marks. Couldn't a player, even a catcher, wear a jersey for a game or two without leaving any evidence of use?

On a related note, I recently acquired a Jerry Zimmerman flannel on ebay. It was a home shirt, tagging looked right, name in collar, but it had a number change, which is common for Twins flannels. The seller noted that it had some damage - some tears on the left sleeve. Frankly, that "damage" was what sealed the deal for me, as I saw it as great evidence of game use - the catcher taking his chest protector on and off a dozen times a game, and the strap/buckle catching on his left sleeve (the chest protector wouldn't have covered the right sleeve so much, as he was right-handed and needed free range of motion.)

[beachpetrol]

does anyone see a problem with this jersey? http://www.ebay.com/itm/1990-Game-Used-Worn-BENITO-SANTIAGO-Padres-Home-Jersey-9-Autographed-PSA-DNA-/151313190693?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item233af80f25

has anyone dealt with "chicplus" or know who "chicplus" is?