How lazy are MLB auth. getting?

[onlyalbert]

So what do you make of this authentication? This is really sad, but do you blame the team, the authenticator, or MLB? How can they classify this as game used......they obviously didn't see it come off his back in Dec., which game?, WHO?, when?, where?...... I hope this is not an indication of where MLB Authentication is headed. Yet, some teams do a fantastic job of authenticating. Wouldn't this have to be an "issued" jersey at best?

[dangerzone79]

I know exactly what you mean. I just picked up a Salty bat that has this MLB Holo on it, but I went through every at-bat of the post season and it wasn't used during the playoff run.

[yanks12025]

Danger,
Maybe they meant with post season items as in items authenticated post season?

[cruwet]

Based on what I've been told by multiple team reps, the authentications of game used items after the fact- and in some cases months after the fact- are based on covert markings on the item at the time they were used. In many cases these items were also used in games after they were marked, but can only be officially authenticated as used to the game(s) they were marked. In this case with the Cards jersey, that is a pretty lazy description by the authenticator though, as I'm sure he could have at least put some more info in there- like player name, the game the item was marked etc.

[cruwet]

Here's a great bit of info I got from the Cards about WS jerseys:

"The road jerseys used in WS Game #2 were not used solely for that game. To the best of my knowledge the road jerseys were only authenticated and/or covert marked for authentication following Game #2. We have come across non that were authenticated to any other game, including Game 6."


I have also noticed that some of the Cards' road World Series jerseys from 2013 have the authentication description of being used in the "2014 World Series". Unless they can time travel, this is another simple mistake and easy to correct.

[onlyalbert]

Here's a great bit of info I got from the Cards about WS jerseys:

"The road jerseys used in WS Game #2 were not used solely for that game. To the best of my knowledge the road jerseys were only authenticated and/or covert marked for authentication following Game #2. We have come across non that were authenticated to any other game, including Game 6."


I have also noticed that some of the Cards' road World Series jerseys from 2013 have the authentication description of being used in the "2014 World Series". Unless they can time travel, this is another simple mistake and easy to correct.

2014?....us Cardinal fans sure hope that is prophetic! Wonder what the process is for getting a correction? Who do you contact?

And why only auth after game 2? I'm really surprised at the lack of jerseys and bats authenticated for this years WS. Honestly, I have not seen one bat. Has anyone else? What about batting helmets? All of the road playoff Cards jerseys had auth, but it wasn't in the system when they were auctioned recently.

[flota89]

I've been wondering something similar with my Holliday WS jersey. It's authenticated to 2013 WS Game 4, but I'm thinking it could have been worn in Game 5 (a home run game) as well. Note that the MLB Authentication doesn't even spell his name right. It's a set 8.

Does anyone know if the Cardinals were issued two home WS jerseys?

[onlyalbert]

I've been wondering something similar with my Holliday WS jersey. It's authenticated to 2013 WS Game 4, but I'm thinking it could have been worn in Game 5 (a home run game) as well. Note that the MLB Authentication doesn't even spell his name right. It's a set 8.

Does anyone know if the Cardinals were issued two home WS jerseys?

None of this makes any sense to me. The authenticators are there for one reason only....to authenticate these items at that particular game. We do know that MLB made the WS jerseys and not the team. I can safely assume at least 2 home, 2 road, and 2 alternate were made for each player in case a jersey malfunction during a game. However, I do know of three alternates of one player for sure. Also, all WS jerseys USED in a WS game were specially marked by MLB. This marking is not visible to the naked eye. Is it possible that the above jersey was marked for that game and authenticated later by checking the marking? Meaning he wore his other jersey in gm 3 and 5? This is the only theory that makes sense otherwise the auth date would not be Dec. Does anyone else know about any of this?

[cruwet]

None of this makes any sense to me. The authenticators are there for one reason only....to authenticate these items at that particular game. We do know that MLB made the WS jerseys and not the team. I can safely assume at least 2 home, 2 road, and 2 alternate were made for each player in case a jersey malfunction during a game. However, I do know of three alternates of one player for sure. Also, all WS jerseys USED in a WS game were specially marked by MLB. This marking is not visible to the naked eye. Is it possible that the above jersey was marked for that game and authenticated later by checking the marking? Meaning he wore his other jersey in gm 3 and 5? This is the only theory that makes sense otherwise the auth date would not be Dec. Does anyone else know about any of this?

Are the covert marking specific to a certain game and how do we know a jersey was marked for each and every game it was worn? Looks to me like these jerseys were marked once after a game, and authenticated after the season. It doesn't sound like there was any authenticating on jerseys done after each and every game, so any determination of when jerseys were worn besides the authentication game date is up to photomatching and research?

[onlyalbert]

Are the covert marking specific to a certain game and how do we know a jersey was marked for each and every game it was worn? Looks to me like these jerseys were marked once after a game, and authenticated after the season. It doesn't sound like there was any authenticating on jerseys done after each and every game, so any determination of when jerseys were worn besides the authentication game date is up to photomatching and research?

I can't speak for any Sox jerseys, but Cards jerseys were auth specifically after NLCS gm 6 and WS gm 2 and 4 from what I've seen. There were some road postseason jerseys auth, but they do not show up in the system. I was told they were probably done during the NLCS as well. The jerseys that were auth to specific games do show obvious use although I was confused by the Wong WS gm 4 jersey that didn't show dirt stains on the front as he was picked off to end the game and did make contact with the ground. It all seems very haphazard to me at the most important games of the season.

[flota89]

I can't speak for any Sox jerseys, but Cards jerseys were auth specifically after NLCS gm 6 and WS gm 2 and 4 from what I've seen. There were some road postseason jerseys auth, but they do not show up in the system. I was told they were probably done during the NLCS as well. The jerseys that were auth to specific games do show obvious use although I was confused by the Wong WS gm 4 jersey that didn't show dirt stains on the front as he was picked off to end the game and did make contact with the ground. It all seems very haphazard to me at the most important games of the season.
If the Wong jersey does not show stains, I would think it could have been the one he wore during Game 5. Seems like a lot of confusion.

[08Cubs]

That *is* lazy, but not inconsistent with the usual practice.

I was pleasantly surprised to see that many Nats 2012 postseason items contain entries for multiple specific games used returned for a singe hologram. (For example, home jerseys used in all three home games). There seems to be no reason why the Cards couldn't have done the same.

[BamaHater]

Here is a video back from 2012 from the head of the Astros Authentics Mike Acosta on how MLB Authentication is done specifically from an Astros perspective. I will say Mike is a stickler for the details and he takes pride in making sure the descriptions are accurate and he get as many detail as possible.
http://m.mlb.com/video/v22681433/mike-acosta-on-his-job-as-astros-authenticator (http://m.mlb.com/video/v22681433/mike-acosta-on-his-job-as-astros-authenticator)

[BamaHater]

An article interviewing Mike Acosta about MLB Authentication and here is highlights of that article.


A few years ago MLB (http://bleacherreport.com/mlb) merged the authentication program partially into the security program. Previously an accounting company such as Price Waterhouse Coopers handled authentication, but MLB recruited local police officers to become authenticators and expand the program. Now they sit as witnesses to all items that are used in a game.
I have worked with authenticators since the program’s inception. In fact I have worked on all team collections since my first season in 1999. We have four rotating authenticators from the Houston Police Department that work on behalf of Major League Baseball.
My job is to manage what we collect from a game and make sure they know all the details for a certain item. Game-used collectibles have been very popular and became another revenue source for teams around the league. In 2009 we joined the group of teams selling authentic game-used merchandise and branded it to our team.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/839402-mlb-authentics-collection-offering-astros-fans-a-piece-of-the-real-game-action

[onlyalbert]

It's amazing to see the wide gap between different teams efforts in this aspect. Those of you that know me know what I am talking about.

[cruwet]

I have a road Cards WS jersey, and it was authenticated to game 2, but it's clearly been washed and worn for more than that game. In fact I've photomatched it to game 6 with buckling of the numbers. My bet is they only bothered with authentication on jerseys 3 times for the Cards jerseys- one each for the home white, home alt and road gray. It doesn't look like there was any specific jersey authentication done on Cards jerseys for games 1, 5 and 6. Just my guess though... I said before, it may take extra research to determine when your jersey was worn, as the authentication doesn't seem to be 100% telling of the exact number of games the jersey was worn.

[onlyalbert]

I have a road Cards WS jersey, and it was authenticated to game 2, but it's clearly been washed and worn for more than that game. In fact I've photomatched it to game 6 with buckling of the numbers. My bet is they only bothered with authentication on jerseys 3 times for the Cards jerseys- one each for the home white, home alt and road gray. It doesn't look like there was any specific jersey authentication done on Cards jerseys for games 1, 5 and 6. Just my guess though... I said before, it may take extra research to determine when your jersey was worn, as the authentication doesn't seem to be 100% telling of the exact number of games the jersey was worn.

Can I ask where is the authentication sticker located? If it's on the back number I'd be surprised if it was used in game 6 but is possible. Generally, they are pulled the game they are authenticated in as I remember seeing dirt stains on some that were auctioned. I'm guessing if it was washed before then it was worn in game 1 as well.

[cruwet]

The sticker is on the front majestic tagging/label. The authentication date was in December. Not sure, but for the jerseys that show wear and were pulled right off the field, wasn't the authentication date that very night & not months later (in December?). Are there any cases of the roads specifically showing right off the field wear?

[onlyalbert]

The sticker is on the front majestic tagging/label. The authentication date was in December. Not sure, but for the jerseys that show wear and were pulled right off the field, wasn't the authentication date that very night & not months later (in December?). Are there any cases of the roads specifically showing right off the field wear?

You are correct on the dates. I know the NLCS gm 6 jerseys were authenticated to that date and were unwashed. I know the Beltran WS gm 2 was auth in Dec also, but it has stains on the front. Those were not dirt stains though so it could've very well been worn later too. What a confusing mess! Shouldn't be this hard! MLB needs to adopt more uniform standards especially in these most important games.

[cruwet]

You are correct on the dates. I know the NLCS gm 6 jerseys were authenticated to that date and were unwashed. I know the Beltran WS gm 2 was auth in Dec also, but it has stains on the front. Those were not dirt stains though so it could've very well been worn later too. What a confusing mess! Shouldn't be this hard! MLB needs to adopt more uniform standards especially in these most important games.

Agreed 100%! I might understand regular season gamers not having precise dates for all games worn, but for the World Series?! No idea why there wasn't a better effort to log the jerseys on a game by game basis.

[cruwet]

Just to add some more info, it looks like the Red Sox World Series jerseys had a similar authentication pattern. All the jerseys I've seen have had only two authentication games, one each for the home white (authenticated after game 1) and road gray (authenticated to game 3) . But in this case, after game 1 the road whites were washed (and possibly put back into use), but the road grays, based on their obvious use (after game 3) were pulled right off the field, authenticated, and the second set most likely used for games 4 and 5. Just my opinion, but here's my guess on the jersey breakdown for the two teams. I could be totally wrong, but this is what it looks like to me:

Cardinals:

Game 1- (road gray) no authentication done after this game. Jerseys most likely used multiple times per email from the Cardinals

Game 2- (road gray)- authentication done after the series (December) to this game specifically. Jerseys most likely used multiple times per the Cardinals

Game 3- (Alternate) - authentication done after the game & jerseys pulled in off the field condition. Only time worn during the series

Game 4- (white) authentication done after the series (December) to this game specifically. Jerseys also possibly worn in game 5 (?)

Game 5- (white) no authentication done after this game. Jerseys possibly used in game 4 (?)

Game 6- (road gray) no authentication done after this game. Jerseys most likely used multiple times per email from the Cardinals



Red Sox

Game 1- (white) Authentication done after the game. Jerseys washed (used later in the series?)

Game 2- (white) No authentication done after the game.

Game 3- (gray) - authentication done after the game & jerseys pulled in off the field condition

Game 4- (gray) No authentication done after the game. (Must be the second set, as the jerseys from game 3 were pulled)

Game 5- (gray) No authentication done after the game.

Game 6- (white) No authentication done after the game (except Ortiz' jersey which was authenticated along with his helmet, batting gloves, cleats, and bats)


Again, I could be totally off on this, but these are just my thoughts based on checking out the authentication codes in the database & what has been showing up in auctions. Any additional info is more than welcome!

[cruwet]

Also- MLB has corrected the Cards' road WS jersey authentications to say 2013 instead of 2014 World Series.

[jojac]

The game one Red Sox World Series jersey I have has been washed. I also wondered if they were used at a later date.
I have an gray playoff jersey from the ALDS and the closes photo match I came across is from a game in the ALCS based on a pine tar mark across the back shoulder. I was also wondering if the ALDS jerseys were used in the ALCS.

[onlyalbert]

[QUOTE=jojac;350008]The game one Red Sox World Series jersey I have has been washed. I also wondered if they were used at a later date.
I have an gray playoff jersey from the ALDS and the closes photo match I came across is from a game in the ALCS based on a pine tar mark across the back shoulder. I was also wondering if the ALDS jerseys were used in the

Speaking only for the Cardinals, the team used reg season jerseys and added their own patch for home, road, and alternates to be used in both rounds of the playoffs. Don't know how many per player, 2 at the minimum, but could be more. I have an alternate postseason and it shows reg season use as well.

[jojac]

The Red Sox jerseys look to also be regular season jerseys with the playoff or world series patches added. The world series jersey has some light wear but the playoff jersey looks to be pretty worn out.

[emann]

The Red Sox jerseys look to also be regular season jerseys with the playoff or world series patches added. The world series jersey has some light wear but the playoff jersey looks to be pretty worn out.

From what I've seen and own, most of the Sox jerseys from the Playoffs were carried over from the season and patched. The WS jerseys all appeared to be new.

I think the WS G1 were used once and pulled. I think G2's were worn in G6. The players kept their white G6 jerseys (and I presume G4 grays which were probably reused in G5).