Great Cobb bat article

[jboosted92]

in a book called "The Ty Cobb Scrapbook" there is a cutout of a news article
written by Fred Turbyville (I believe a Baltimore sportswriter at the >time)
written in 1919

He writes

ONE OF THE MANY REASONS WHY TY COBB IS THE BEST BATSMAN

"There are many reasons why Ty Cobb is the best batter in baseball, >but
this isnt a summing up of the whole--just one of many. He is mightly fussy
about his war clubs.

He's so funny about 'em that he sometimes makes the other players on >the
Tiger payroll, funny, too. For instance, the Detroit club arrived in
Cleveland for a series donie bush and some of the others ......couldnt find > there
bats"

Where are the bats?" was the popular wail.

Everybody wailed but Cobb."

"There wasnt room for them..." the bat man explained.

And them someone found that Cobb had 12 personal bats in the clubs bat >bag.

And that wasnt all. While they were arguing this matter in comes a new
shipment of bats---twelve of them. Cobb broke the string and fortwith >picked out
12 to add to his dozen.

"Of course, CObb doesnt swing them all in one afternoon. blab
lablablablablbl
ablblablblabla

At any rate he has plenty of bats...."

Im not sure how much evidence this helps the Bat collecting community, but
it goes to show, that Cobb HAD 24 PERSONAL BATS, in his possession at one >time
in 1919, yet from what I know, no recorded orders exist, and orders from
1920-1928 show about 7-8 total orders..

So I think that goes to show, that Cobb (at least him) ordered MULTIPLE bats, and im sure of different lengths, styles, and weights


Anyones thoughts?

[jboosted92]

no replies from the "documented shipping orders only" crowd?

[ChrisCavalier]

no replies from the "documented shipping orders only" crowd?
Hello Justin,

Thank you for your initial post. However, I'm a bit unclear who you are referring to by the "documented shipping records only crowd". From what I can see on this forum, the collectors are very astute individuals with analytical thinking abilities that enable them to consider all factors when evaluating the probabilities a bat potentially being used by a player.

Thus, while I think your post about Cobb is interesting and worthwhile, I'm a little confused by your comment above. In fact, my guess is that if you can clear up who you are referring to it might help you get a reply.

Sincerely,
Chris Cavalier

[jboosted92]

[quote=ChrisCavalier;27650]Hello Justin,

Thank you for your initial post. However, I'm a bit unclear who you are referring to by the "documented shipping records only crowd". From what I can see on this forum, the collectors are very astute individuals with analytical thinking abilities that enable them to consider all factors when evaluating the probabilities a bat potentially being used by a player.

Thus, while I think your post about Cobb is interesting and worthwhile, I'm a little confused by your comment above. In fact, my guess is that if you can clear up who you are referring to it might help you get a reply.

Sincerely,
Chris Cavalier[/quote
The comment above wasnt to "segregate" anyone or any group, but like the tris speaker post, articles like the above, enhance the factor of multiple resources for bat orders, other than just the minute amount of pre-1930 factory records, and although the records provide a invaluable source, they are a small fraction of the bats in pro circulation....

Now, I know Cobb was picky about his bats (like the old-timers according to Cobb himself), so for him to have over 30 PERSONAL bats in his possession for 1 game.... it goes to show when Pro-models are discovered, articles like this are a valuable source.

[ChrisCavalier]

The comment above wasnt to "segregate" anyone or any group
Hello Justin,

Empirically speaking, the use of the phrase "documented factory records only crowd" implies a segregation. The other alternative would be that your use of the term "crowd" was referring to everyone on the site. If that is the case, I would have to say that I think you are mistaken about the way those on this site evaluate data.

In any event, thanks for posting the Cobb excerpt. It was, indeed, interesting and informative.

Sincerely,
Chris Cavalier

[MSpecht]

Hi Justin--

I enjoyed your post of the newspaper article, which additionally led to a re-read of the section from the Stump book posted by Dave Grob on the MEARS site. I am not sure there is a conflict here between the information contained in those two references and the documented Cobb records that exist in the form of pre-1930 factory shipping records (19 orders), an H & B display bat, two indexed diagrams of Cobb spec'ed bats, and the H & B side-written bats that have surfaced to date.

To fill in forum members, there was a previous discussion on this topic (see http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=2998&highlight=cobb (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=2998&highlight=cobb) ) where we, I think, agreed that while the shipping records for that period are incomplete, that does not mean, however, that they are non-existent( see previous post http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=5363 (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=5363) )and does not mean that, in many cases, they are insufficient to show an ordering pattern with which to assist collectors in their personal evaluation of a specific bat.

The value of those records, along with other era-specific resources such as the 1919 newspaper article you researched and the Stump book, is to present a basic framework within which to evaluate the liklihood of a specific player possibly using a specific bat, based on an analysis of documented records, personal use characteristics, and other provenance.

To illustrate, let's review 20 or so Ty Cobb bats that have been authenticated over the past 5 years or so by various authenticators as professional Ty Cobb model bats, exhibiting professional use -- potentially by Ty Cobb. Those authentications show a range of between 32.8 inches to 36 inches in length, and a range of between 28 ounces and 42 ounces in weight.

The question here to you, as a collector, is what is your "Holy Grail," or ideal Ty Cobb game-used bat? That is for each collector to determine after researching all available material. Are you as comfortable with the 32.8 inch Cobb bat as you are with a 34.5 inch Cobb bat? Is your ideal Cobb between 36 and 40 ounces in weight, or closer to 30 ounces? Which do you favor, a Cobb bat with no preparation of the handle, or with a taped handle creating uneven surfaces? Do you want the barrel clean and pristine, or darkened and with cleat marks? The information available to help any collector answer those questions is all available in this post, if you read the references cited.

So, what's the point here? Basically it is only to suggest that there is a sufficient amount of information available on most players, with particular attention to Hall of Famers, for each individual collector to form a reasoned opinion on whether a specific bat is either typical and compelling, atypical yet reasonable, or juat a total stretch of imagination.

Thanks for the newspaper article Justin, and thanks for the personal research you have done into turn-of-the-century bats. The information provides valuable insight for collectors.

Mike Jackitout7@aol.com (Jackitout7@aol.com)

[jboosted92]

Mike,

Thanks for the analysis. Much appreciated

[ChrisCavalier]

So, what's the point here? Basically it is only to suggest that there is a sufficient amount of information available on most players, with particular attention to Hall of Famers, for each individual collector to form a reasoned opinion on whether a specific bat is either typical and compelling, atypical yet reasonable, or juat a total stretch of imagination.

Thanks for the newspaper article Justin, and thanks for the personal research you have done into turn-of-the-century bats. The information provides valuable insight for collectors.
Hello Mike,

I would like to join Justin in thanking you for your thoughtful analysis. In addition, thanks again Justin for the information you have shared in this thread.

Sincerely,
Chris Cavalier